Smoking Ban is out of order

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posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 03:04 PM
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This is what confuses me, the governments have tobacco as a legal product, granted there are health warnings, yet this product they say is harmful to health and people who are exposed to the second hand smoke are at a higher risk of lung cancer. Even though there has been no comprehensive, independent study to actually show this.
So why don't they ban cigarettes all together? If it so harmful, which I admit it is to those who smoke. Why is it legal? Why don't we just have a ban on smoking all together. Surely if it's dangerous then why give it to us.

This is where the tobacco lobbyists come into it. These rich, influential companies who give money to political parties so as to keep their lethal, deadly product on the market.

Smoking has caused more deaths than say cannabis. Yet cannabis is illegal because of some cock and bull reason. It leads to psychosis they say. It's a gateway drug leading to harder drugs they say. Drinking alcohol everyday(which is legal) COULD POSSIBLY lead to psychosis. Just like cannabis could POSSIBLY lead to psychosis if abused and smoked everyday. About it being a gateway drug leading to harder drugs, well you got to give it to them, they got half of it right. It's a gateway drug yes. The meaning of this comes from tribal rituals. By consuming cannabis it is a gateway to another dimension. But when the government and their controlled media put their spin on it. Well I need say no more. There are plenty of people who consume marijuana for medical reasons. It relieves pain for MS and arthritis sufferers for example. There are people who have consumed marijuana for a majority of their lifes yet have no desire to take hard drugs like heroin. Oh I forgot it makes people lazy and unproductive they tell us. Tell that to the many who get on with their everyday lives and contribute to society, pay taxes, go to college to then go on to a career they have planned for. Are they lazy GOVERNMENT?

So back to cigarettes. They want to ban it in pubs so the people who work there have a clean working environment. It's dangerous for them to work there. Well excuse me a clean working environment. HOW ABOUT SHUTTING YOUR MOUTH EVERYTIME YOU WALK OUTSIDE. It's that what is causing damage to you. But the lovely government who would never lie to us(IRAQ)don't tell us about how that is more likely the reason people who don't smoke are contracting lung cancer. What about those who work outdoors? They don't get that luxury. Millions of cars polluting our air every day. Those poor workers who are exposed to that, like builders and scaffolders. Let's ban driving. No it's a risk that comes with working outside. You don't have to work in a bar it's a choice. If you don't like it find something else. Nobody actually listens to the bar staff in New York, where there is a ban, who have worked 20, 30 even 40 years in the trade. They say that they don't seem to be affected by the smoke.

Should alcohol be banned as it's potentially dangerous to taxi drivers? A group of young highly strung guys who are drunk on alcohol decide to give the cabbie some hassle. It gets out of hand and they give him a good beating. Perhaps seriously damaging him for life or worse.. taking his life.

This is all about control and PC bull#. How about a compromise? Let's have designated smoking areas in bars for example or instead of taking away the right of the landlord, who could actually own the pub, to decide whether he wants to have a non smoking bar. It's like saying you can't smoke in your home to someone who owns their pub. Better still ban cigarettes as they say it is deadly. So your government is basically sanctioning companies to potentially kill you.




posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 03:42 PM
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I think your in the wrong section.



Resturants...maybe. Nightclubs...arguebly. But Bars??? If you care about your health then you shouldn't be there in the first place, moron!



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 04:52 PM
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Where I am from, it is illegal to smoke in any public place at all. Even bars it is illegal. Anytime an establishment is caught having people smoking indoors will suffer a serious fine.

Anyone who thinks smoking is their right and US non-smokers should just shut our pies are absolutely ridiculous. If you want to smoke your death sticks that is your choice, and you have every right to exercise it. But when that action is going to kill those around you, then you have no right to do this in public.

Saying second hand smoke may not be as deadly as they say.. cmon now. Think of all the toxins in these, and the smoke that is coming off the end of the cigarette have not even travelled through the filter which probably does nothing anyways.

I hate smoking and am totally against it, but I don't condemn somebody on the street who has me gagging on the reek of this crap hes sucking in.

Three years ago my stepfather was battling cancer over christmas.. had his bladder among many things removed and then had to live with a bag on his side to urinate in. After all of this, he still could not stop smoking and then within 3 months he took a heart attack and died.

Now this was his decision to smoke, and there is nothing I or you can do about that. But your notion that people should beable to smoke wherever they please, where they could pass this on to innocent bystanders is too much.

Right now it may seem extreme, but in the future a lit cigarette in public will be considered the same as a loaded gun. I hope so anyways.



Let's ban driving. No it's a risk that comes with working outside.


Your emotion that is leading to these dumb comments, completely wipes out any validity you may of had.

Our governenments are not going to ban an item that makes them millions and millions of dollars a year, probably even more, But to the non-smokers they have to do something to keep them happy. Hence these by-laws, and when these are installed, the ignorant with the death stick in his or her mouth believes this is some god given right to poisen everyone else around him.




So why don't they ban cigarettes all together? If it so harmful, which I admit it is to those who smoke. Why is it legal? Why don't we just have a ban on smoking all together. Surely if it's dangerous then why give it to us.


Do you need the government to let you know what direction to wipe your backside? How about making a decision on your own and stop blaming everyone else.


If you want to kill yourself with cigarettes, I think you should take it outside, so the rest of us aren't urinating in bags and breathing through a whole in our throats. Thank you very much.


[edit on 14-2-2006 by chissler]



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 05:02 PM
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My city banned smoking in pubs and restaurants ages ago. I'm a smoker and it doesn't bother me a bit. If I want to smoke, I can go outside or into a specially ventilated room built just for me and my fellow smokers.

I hate the smell of smoke when I'm eating, so I can just imagine how gross it is for non-smokers.

That being said, the last person that tried to give me crap for smoking outside got an earful. I'm a courteous smoker that has no problem following the rules but I don't take crap from self-righteous non-smokers while I'm standing on the street because I'm not allowed to smoke inside.



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 05:18 PM
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Smoking Ban is out of order


Yes it is, yes it is. Fair enough, ban it in places where they serve food, but if I'm not mistaken, This applies to ALL pubs, bars etc. It is way, wayy, wayyy out of order. I never thought I would see the day. I don't know what this country is coming to. I don't think I want to hang around to find out.



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 05:19 PM
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I agree Bars are too far. Why? Because it sends a bunch of drunk yahoos out onto the street causing fights and general disruption of the peace yadda yadda yadda.

Not a smoker or a drinker but I walk by these establishments alot and can't count the number of times I had to cross the street to avoid a fight in progress
Also got into a few myself :sigh:

[edit on 14-2-2006 by sardion2000]



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 05:35 PM
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I'm all for a smoking ban in all public places aside from bars. With what we know about second hand smoke, there is just no excuse.

However one problem with smoking in the bar is the second hand smoke with employees. While a consumer can decide not to go to a bar it maybe a different story for a person who works there. Should some one who works in a bar get some kind of hazard pay?
I know of a local bar that tried to go non-smoking on their own. The owners were non-smokers and wanted to have a non-smoking environment for people to drink in. Their sales dropped dramatically and they had to go smoking again. The bar owners would like for the city to ban smoking in bars so that it even things out and they could still make a profit with out the problems of second hand smoke.
In 2009 all public places in my city will be going non-smoking but those bar owners were hoping it could be brought about earlier.

On thing that really bothers me is that over here smoking is banned on train platforms. The public transit system here is above ground and you have to wait for the train outside. While I have never seen anyone fined for smoking on the platform it makes no sense for it to be banned.It's outside!



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 05:46 PM
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What's more hazordous second hand smoke in bars or brawls on the sidewalk?



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by MrDog
It's like saying you can't smoke in your home to someone who owns their pub. Better still ban cigarettes as they say it is deadly. So your government is basically sanctioning companies to potentially kill you.


I'd say most problems people have these days, aren't caused by the rights of individuals but where they infringe upons the rights of others. People should be allowed to smoke yes, but not in a public place. Governments are in place to protect us from each other, not from ourselves (which they often try to do).

So unless it's a public place, its the owners choice and everyone else, including employees should just have to get used to it. By entering the establishment they are accepting the risk of second hand smoke.



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 07:02 PM
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I can't get this quote thing right so I'm just going to put your name next to the comment.

chissler says
But when that action is going to kill those around you, then you have no right to do this in public.
Saying second hand smoke may not be as deadly as they say.. cmon now.
Think of all the toxins in these, and the smoke that is coming off the end of the cigarette have not even travelled through the filter which probably does nothing anyways.

MrDog replies
Think of all the toxins in the due to car pollution. This is more likely the reason non smokers are getting cancer. No study has shown that second hand smoke does this

chissler says
But your notion that people should beable to smoke wherever they please, where they could pass this on to innocent bystanders is too much.

MrDog
I agree it smells but above point stands on health issue. I never said wherever they please. I'm talking bars here

chissler
Right now it may seem extreme, but in the future a lit cigarette in public will be considered the same as a loaded gun. I hope so anyways.

MrDog in reply to a referral of a dumb comment by myself
Talk about dumb comments. Aah touché. Your emotion has obviously got the better of you.

chissler says
Our governenments are not going to ban an item that makes them millions and millions of dollars a year, probably even more,

MrDog
Of course they won't my point was if it so deadly and dangerous why allow it. They don't allow cannabis legally in UK or US but where is the proof of that causing as many deaths as cigarettes. Umm I don't believe there is any evidence

chissler says
Do you need the government to let you know what direction to wipe your backside? How about making a decision on your own and stop blaming everyone else.

MrDog
You are assuming I'm a smoker, to which I am occasionaly. But I'm not blaming anyone for doing so, smoking is a personnal choice and by doing it you should be aware of the risks of addiction and increase chance of lung cancer. To yourself

chissler says
Iou want to kill yourself with cigarettes, I think you should take it outside, so the rest of us aren't urinating in bags and breathing through a whole in our throats. Thank you very much.

MrDog
As I said earlier there is no conclusive study to show that second hand smoke leads to cancer. Sorry it's a myth. If you're so worried about polluting your lungs and maybe contracting cancer then close your mouth real tight when you step outside as that's what is more likely causing the damage. Second hand smoke is just being used as an excuse to cover up the fact that our administrations have damaged our air. Thank you very much.

And I agree with The Zodiac. You know the risk. It should be the owners choice on whether it should be a smoke free bar or not. In food serving establishments I'm all for non smoking. It's rude to smoke when people are eating. Public places like cinemas and other places of course I agree no smoking. But a bar is different. Even a few non smokers light up when they drink.

[edit on 14-2-2006 by MrDog]



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by MrDog
And I agree with The Zodiac. You know the risk. It should be the owners choice on whether it should be a smoke free bar or not.


Thanks for the support
My smoking is already illegal, but I think this logic should work across the board.

Quoting is not to difficult, when you want to start a quote type
(quote), and to end a quote type (/quote).
Additionally links use a similar format of
(url) (/url),
Hyperlinks use (url=Website Adress Here)New Text For Link(/url)
***REPLACE ALL ( and ) with [ and ] to work***
You should findZedd's Handbook extremely helpful with most questions about ATS.



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 08:44 AM
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[ quote ]

Text

[ /quote ]

Just without the spaces.


Back to the topic of smoking in bars. Umbrax brings up a solid argument of the workers, should these people be taking years off their lives just to make a dollar, and because a certain crowd does not want to stand outside. A local bar in my area ignores the smoking ban all the time and just pays the fine everytime they get caught, while everyone else has banned it. Most people just smoke in the bathrooms, which makes alot of us hold it in which can be unpleasant.

Smoking areas should be sectioned off possibly for these situations, however I still feel a non-smoker should not have to breath that stuff in if he or she chooses not to smoke for when these areas are not allocated.

How would you feel if it could be determined your second-hand smoke caused cancer in a single mother trying to work at minimum wage serving drinks to make sure her baby has food to eat. Would you feel guilty?



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 08:59 AM
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I haven't read all the posts so, sorry if this has already been said...

The British government make an absolute pooload of money off us cigarette buyers. £8 for 50g of tobacco, over in France it's about £2.66. That means that 66.75% of the money we spend on cigarettes goes to the government.

That's why they keep us smoking - to get alot of money.



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 09:11 AM
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I am a smoker and i have no objections to stepping outside to have a ciggie, i do not think it is a infingement of my liberties.

What i do not agree with is that a employer can refuse to give someone a job just because they smoke or dismiss someone for the same reason's If they are not smoking in the work enviroment what is the problem?

In a recent case in manchester UK a local man who worked at a company who had a strict no smoking policy had his photo taken by a fellow employee whilst he was smoking and pinned up all around his place of work. From that day on he was subject to abuse and bullying by his manager and fellow emloyees.

He commited suicied

source of story The Salford Advertiser 9th Feb 2006



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 09:53 AM
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I don't care if people inhale my smoke, they are at a bar, what do they expect? smoking is alot less harmful then drinking and harming your liver.

Personally smoking is a refuge and i think people dont mind inhaling it as it is a form of relaxation whether they know it or not. [/sarcasm]



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by chissler

Back to the topic of smoking in bars. Umbrax brings up a solid argument of the workers, should these people be taking years off their lives just to make a dollar, and because a certain crowd does not want to stand outside. A local bar in my area ignores the smoking ban all the time and just pays the fine everytime they get caught, while everyone else has banned it. Most people just smoke in the bathrooms, which makes alot of us hold it in which can be unpleasant.

Smoking areas should be sectioned off possibly for these situations, however I still feel a non-smoker should not have to breath that stuff in if he or she chooses not to smoke for when these areas are not allocated.

How would you feel if it could be determined your second-hand smoke caused cancer in a single mother trying to work at minimum wage serving drinks to make sure her baby has food to eat. Would you feel guilty?


If it was determined that second hand smoke is the cause then I wouldn't have too feel guilty because I would take it elsewhere. I think my point is that pollution in the air is more likely the reason that non smokers contract cancer than second hand smoke. If they do find that the smoke does then I'll be more than happy to take it outside. I don't smoke much anyway. Just when I have a few drinks I get the urge.

It's not about infringing liberites on us it was more about the rights of the landlord. Especially if he actually owns his pub. It's his place after all just like your home is your place(if you own it).

I know cissler you said about making your own decision but smoking is highly addictive, just like alcohol can be and just like heroin can be. I know it's a choice but as a kid peer pressure and fitting in is hard to ignore. I know alot of kids can, and good for them but alot can't and get hooked. This is a point I forget to put in. Governments allow this highly addictive substance to be sold to us. I UK at 16 years old. Germany when I was there you can by smokes from vending machines in the street meaning anyone can get them. So as it's so dangerous why don't our governments protect us like they should do and ban cigarettes. They have heroin illegal as it's potentially addictive, dangerous to health and could possibly kill you. Smoking can also do that, the difference is it just takes a little longer. You may say ah but smokers can still work and contribute. I have known people who take heroin and still work a job, pay taxes. I also know people who are alcoholics and can't or don't want to work who just sit around drinking their Special Brews everyday. They get money from the state for being an alcoholic. Yet alcohol a potential addictive, health damaging substance is legal. I'm not calling for a legalisation of heroin here. Do you get my drift here?

P.S Thanks for the quote tips. I didn't realise about the slash at the end quote


[edit on 15-2-2006 by MrDog]



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 04:17 PM
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I agree that it does not make any sense to ban smoking in bars. I think the gov enjoy collecting taxes from cigarettes but they also get complaints about smokers so the gov is getting all confused.

Also I just want to mention the obvious for people claiming loudly about their right to smoke. Smoking is not a right, it's an attitude. You want to exercise your right to drink water or breath fresh air otherwise you will die, on the other hand smoking cigarettes serves no real purpose.


[edit on 15-2-2006 by ufia]



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by ufia
on the other hand smoking cigarettes serves no real purpose.
[edit on 15-2-2006 by ufia]


You're right there it serves no purpose. Only that governments make money of peoples addiction. Funny that so do drug dealers. Irony?





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