U.S. and Israel plans to overthrow Hamas.

Originally posted by maldives01

www.globalresearch.ca...

This quotes a guy who is Professor of History at the University of Jerusalem.

The author of that article is Hassane Zerouky. He is a journalist for the French daily L'Humanité and was also journalist for the former (and now banned) Algerian francophone newspaper, Le Matin. The sentence “Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas[„ is from Zerouky and NOT from Zeev Sternell

The authors quotation from Zeev Sternell "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)". is out of the context, since Prof. Sternell wrote about Israels support of the HAMAS in their early beginning, but not of Israel having created the HAMAS.

As said before, the Terror Organisation Hamas is an offspring from the Muslim brotherhood and was founded by Ahmed Yassin.


Hassane Zerouky did also a very bad reserach here:

www.globalresearch.ca...

Quite unexpectedly, Prime Minister Netanyahu ordered Sheik Ahmed Yassin to be released from prison ("on humanitarian grounds") where he was serving a life sentence [...] Prime Minister Netanyahu allowed him to return to Gaza, where he was welcomed triumphantly as a hero in October 1997.

Facts: End of September 1997 Yassin was released from Israeli prison as part of an arrangement with Jordan following a failed assassination attempt of Khaled Mashal conducted by the Israeli Mossad in Jordan. After receiving a medical threatment in Amman, Jordan sent Sheik Ahmed Yassin back to Gaza five days after he has been released:

In September 25, 1997,

Israeli Mossad agents tried to poison him [Khaled Mashal].

He would have died, but the Mossad agents were captured and provoked a crisis in Israeli-Jordan relations. King Hussein insisted that Israel send the antidote to save Mashal's life.

Israel agreed and the two agents were later released in a prisoner exchange in which Israel released Sheikh Ahmed Yassin from jail.
(source)

(see also a special report Oct/1/1997 on www.arabicnews.com: The release of Sheikh Yassin)


(BTW: Yes, I am an Israeli citizen)



[edit on 16-2-2006 by Riwka]

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Sub, you miss the point that Hamas is a TERRORIST organization, demanding the destruction of Israel.

Speaking of fog. You seem to miss the point.

I know, it's me!
I always miss the point.

For some reason my mind is consumed with what is killing all of us, instead of the information the media is showcasing for us.

I'm sure you already know that threads concerning the death of thousands of Americans on a daily basis is not nearly as popular as these 'radical Islamic' threads.
I just get tired of talking to myself.
Please bear with me, I'm working towards getting to the 'point' where the preventable death of my own family is irrelevant.

Moderator Edit: I will do you a favor and assume that the image you posted was accidental. Don't do that again.

[edit on 2-16-2006 by Djarums]

wow, he is going to hell for that.

Couldnt he just post some boobies or something?

I know if I was going to post something offensive to piss off a mod it will be BOOBIES.

Not trying to trivilize the situation but all Israel and the US have to do to overthrow Hamas is simply stop the money........period! Just stop paying the hundreds of millions and that is that! If Saudi are any of the other oil rich Arab countries then wish to step up to the plate and support their fellow Arabs then it is a win/win situation for both Israel and the US. When the garbage barge starts to leak then Hamas will sink or swim. As soon as the Hamas government is offically in charge and the next suicide bomber blows him/herself up or some idiot lobs a missle into a Jewish settlement then the gig is up anyway.

I'd like to make a little clarification here.

It's difficult to tell whether the above picture (which I have since removed) was posted by accident (due to image link problems) or intentionally.

See, some sites don't let you paste image links because of what it does to their limited bandwidth, and they replace those with offensive photos to "slap back" at the person doing it.

That said, you are responsible for what you post.

ATS is well programmed. After you post, you're taken to your post to see that everything looks right. If it doesn't, EDIT it.

The posting of pornographic materials on AboveTopSecret.com (which is viewable by members of all ages) will be met with an immediate removal of posting priveleges. Is that clear?

You may now return to your regularly scheduled topic.

[edit on 2-16-2006 by Djarums]

Everyone is ignoring the generous offer from Hamas.

Why is that?

Because you are stuck with your unreasonable demand for recognition.

There will be no recognition until after a period of liberation if it is to be had.

It will not be given while the occupation continues.

Top Hamas official Mahmoud al-Zahar told CNN that a "long-term hudna or long-term truce" is possible. He would not commit to negotiating with Israel and would not say whether recognizing Israel's existence is a long-term possibility.

The conditions included Israel's retreating to its pre-1967 borders and releasing Palestinian prisoners.

Zahar told CNN if Israel "is ready to give us the national demand to withdraw from the occupied area (in) '67; to release our detainees; to stop their aggression; to make geographic link between Gaza Strip and West Bank, at that time, with assurance from other sides, we are going to accept to establish our independent state at that time, and give us one or two, 10, 15 years time in order to see what is the real intention of Israel after that."

"We can accept to establish our independent state on the area occupied (in) '67," he said. Israel took control of the West Bank and Gaza in the Six-Day War of 1967.

Key conditions could allow Palestinians to give a "long-term hudna or long-term truce," and "after that, let time heal," he said.

Hamas: Ceasefire for return to 1967 border

Peace and security for Israel, and an end to the occupation.

Israel would only have to give back what they took in the 1967 Sneak Attack.

Whoever would reject this is not a partner for peace.

Not everything will be solved at once, but most of it can be fixed so that a long term solution can be worked out.

The other alternative would be for Israel to become a Democracy, create a constitution, allow for right of return, and equal rights for all.

In a day most every problem would end, but they want a Jewish State which is incompatable with Democracy.

ArchAngel, you look at your own source and the Hamas don't say they will recognize Israel. Its a fact that they want to destroy Israel. So theres no point giving in to Hamas.

Originally posted by deltaboy
ArchAngel, you look at your own source and the Hamas don't say they will recognize Israel. Its a fact that they want to destroy Israel. So theres no point giving in to Hamas.

Hamas wants to drive the Jews into the Sea, and the Israelies want to drive the Palestinians into the Dead Sea.

But that is only thoughts, and words.

Between those two extremes there are many alternatives.

If Israel wants recognition before a withdraw they are asking for too much.

Why NOT accept what is offered?

It must be better than the current situation.

The answer is that Israel wants all of the land, and they are stalling.

Hamas has said they might not ever recognize Israel. Arch, are you actually suggesting that Israel give in to all of Hamas' requests when they don't offer anything back in return? That's nonsense. Israel is better off letting Hamas take control and do what everyone on the planet expects them to do, back more terror. They will assume they have Iran and Syria and Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Arab world behind them and they will find out real fast how few friends they have when it is a public friendship. Iran and Syria will gladly aid and abet if they haven't already dragged their own countries into conflicts over things brewing on their home turf.

Asking Israel to accept the so called truce without Hamas recognizing Israel's rights and existence is, in a word, moronic.

Demanding Israel go back to pre-67 borders (you know, the borders she had after she was attacked and her land whittled by the lovely neighbors) is not offering peace; that is demanding concessions before any negotiation. That is no offering of peace, any more than a robber offering you your life in exchange for your wallet. There is no need to feel as if the criminal is gracious.

Israel has never suggest pushing the "Palestinians" into any sea. Had it been her intention, it could have already been done and there would be no discussion right now.

The Islamic Resistance Movement has not changed its tune, so, there is no reason to see it as nothing more than a terrorist organization.

The interesting thing is we in the U.S. complain about terrorism not having a government against which we may wage war. Seems a group of people has elected just that, although they have no country.

Hamas has said they might not ever recognize Israel. Arch, are you actually suggesting that Israel give in to all of Hamas' requests when they don't offer anything back in return?

Yes they are.

They are offering a Truce for a term of many years that can be extended.

All they are asking for is what Israel took in 1967.

Which would include Liberation for them.

Liberate Palestine!

Originally posted by Djarums
I'd like to make a little clarification here.

It's difficult to tell whether the above picture (which I have since removed) was posted by accident (due to image link problems) or intentionally.

See, some sites don't let you paste image links because of what it does to their limited bandwidth, and they replace those with offensive photos to "slap back" at the person doing it.

That said, you are responsible for what you post.

ATS is well programmed. After you post, you're taken to your post to see that everything looks right. If it doesn't, EDIT it.

The posting of pornographic materials on AboveTopSecret.com (which is viewable by members of all ages) will be met with an immediate removal of posting priveleges. Is that clear?

You may now return to your regularly scheduled topic.

[edit on 2-16-2006 by Djarums]

Of course it wasn't posted by accident, it was the same image you removed from the other post.

www.stayhealthyblog.com...

copy paste this into your browser and add jpg at the end if you want to something that is against the ATS religion.

Pornographic material ?

It's an image of 4 of the thousands of 'smoke stacks' that are filling our lungs , what's the problem with that MODERATOR ?

Originally posted by Submersible
Pornographic material ?

It's an image of 4 of the thousands of 'smoke stacks' that are filling our lungs , what's the problem with that MODERATOR ?

The same thing that's wrong with this one. You "hot linked" a picture from a site. His site replaced the pic you intended with one that's extremely offensive. As Djarums said, you ARE responsable for what you post, intentionaly or not. Hot linking is a sure way to get you into trouble. Find a hosting site, no problems then.

If the 'stayhealthyblog.com' website ling results in pornographic material then I apologize.
it was not my intentions.
thanks for the explanation;

Did you guys read this piece of news?

Israel and Hamas Quietly Do Business

As the Palestinian militant group Hamas prepares to assume control of the Palestinian Authority, BBC Middle East correspondent James Reynolds visits the West Bank town of Qalqilya, where Hamas officials and Israeli civil servants are already working together.

[...]

Israel says it will not deal with a Hamas-led Palestinian Authority.

It has threatened to make life difficult - perhaps unworkable - for a Hamas government.

But, Israel has not shut down the Hamas-run municipality in Qalqilya. Quietly, it has let the acting mayor get on with his job.

The town still gets its electricity. The fact that you can switch on a light bulb in Qalqilya shows that at the most basic level there is some degree of understanding between the two enemies.

I suppose at the grassroots level there is co-operation going on. Why can't the top leaders be nice to each other?

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Did you guys read this piece of news?

The town still gets its electricity.

What a bad research by the author of that BBC-article.

The Israel Electric Corporation (IEC) supplies power - including fuel, equipment, manpower and services - to the WHOLE PA: both in the GazaStrip and Westbank - and the PA doesn't pay IEC.

At this juncture, the PA's debt to IEC alone is a whopping NIS 220 million ($47 million) - the highest ever - GazaCity alone owes NIS 50m. for electricity. (more: PA electric arrears hit NIS 220 million)

And if there is an issue, IEC still sends their manpower out. No matter if the municipality is Hamas or Fatah. They also have tried to get the money from them, but....they do not pay their bills.

The PA also owes Mekorot for much of its water, Bezeq for communications services, some of Israel's cellphone firms, many of the country's hospitals and numerous private Israeli suppliers and businessmen, who have little if any redress..... and most Palestinians don't pay their bills


With any other customer one would have switched off the switch.

But of course we will not do that to the people in the PA, of course we deliver the power and the equipment, the manpower and the service - whom ever they may have elected and will elect in the future.


[edit on 18-2-2006 by Riwka]

Originally posted by Beachcoma

Why can't the top leaders be nice to each other?

Yes, that is a good question:

Why can't the top leaders of a state and a top leader of a Terror organisation be nice together?

Probably - only probably, because the Terror Organisation HAMAS

still calls for an end to the Jewish state?

Hamas working on 'new charter'

At closed meetings in hotel suites in Beirut and Damascus, Hamas has been developing a new charter that is designed to showcase a more moderate and non anti-Semitic face, one of those advising on its content has told The Jerusalem Post.

Yet this new document, acknowledged Dr. Azzam Tamimi, 51, the Hebron-born director of the Institute of Islamic Political Thought in London, would still call for an end to the Jewish state and the creation of a Palestinian state on all of mandatory Palestine.

The Jewish State of Israel wants a Palestinian state as neighbour - - but the Terror organisation Hamas does NOT want a jewish state as neighbour.....and since Hamas are sworn into Palestinian parliament, they now represent the Palestinian Authority.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger, I'm only relaying what I read. No need to get all uppity, I didn't mean to offend anyone.

Frankly I don't know much about the issue. I usually skip that section of the news because when it pertains to Israel-Palestine I'll be reading one thing on CNN, another thing on BBC, something else on al-Jazeera and yet another thing on the local newspapers.

It's all very confusing and I don't know who's telling the truth, who's lying, who's leaving out some details, who's distorting the message... err, I think I'll just stay out of any discussions pertaining to this matter. Consider this my last post on matters directly related to Israel-Palestine.

Cheers, and peace to all

Originally posted by Beachcoma

Frankly I don't know much about the issue.

No problem. Here is a link to

Hamas Covenant 1988 - The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement

Its Covenant is a comprehensive manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad.


If you do not want to read all the 36 articles, here you'll find some

Main Points

- Goals of the HAMAS
- On the destruction of Israel
- The exclusive Moslem nature of the area
- The call to jihad
- Rejection of a negotiated peace settlement
- Condemnation of the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty and the
- Anti-Semitic incitement

Former Shin Bet chief Avi Dichter yesterday compared Hamas charter to Adolf Hitler’s Mein Kampf:

Dichter compares Hamas charter to Mein Kampf

Dichter said: “I was surprised by the cheer number of people who are not familiar with Hamas’s charter.

The charter is not only against Israel, but against the Jewish people.

The clause ‘The Tree and the Rock’ states that should the last Jew hide on a tree or behind a rock, the tree or the rock should call the closest Muslim and say, ‘come, Muslim, kill the Jew.’

The charter is fundamentally anti-Jewish, exactly like Hitler’s Mein Kampf.”


Dichter added: “Israel warned clearly that Hamas is tainting the Palestinian Authority with the colors of terror. Hamas was asked to accept three conditions to change its position from an enemy to something else:

renouncing terror

respecting all agreements

scrapping Hamas’s 1988 charter.”

• US demands PA return $50 million in aid
  
  Last Friday, US State Department asked the Palestinian Authority for the return of $50 million special aid given by the US government to ensure that these funds will not make their way to a future HAMAS-led government that does not recognize the right of Israel to exist. Meanwhile, Abbas agreed to send that money back.
  
  
  
• U.S. Freezes Hamas-Linked Group's Assets
  
  Also, the U.S. Treasury Department moved on Sunday against KindHearts, a NGO operating out of Toledo, Ohio, for funneling money to the Terror Group HAMAS. U.S. banks now must freeze any assets belonging to the group and Americans are barred from doing business with it.
  
  
  

  
  
  
  All property and interests in property of the following entity, wherever located, are blocked pending investigation pursuant to Section 106 of the U.S.A. Patriot Act of 2001, 107 Public Law 56 (October 26, 2001). Although the entity is not now an "[SDGT]," its name has been integrated into OFAC's SDN list with the descriptor "[BPI-PA]" to indicate that all of its property and interests in property are currently blocked:
  
  KINDHEARTS FOR CHARITABLE HUMANITARIAN DEVELOPMENT, INC. , P.O. Box 1248, Gaza, Palestinian; P.O. Box 23310, Toledo, OH 43623; 3450 West Central Avenue, #366, Toledo, OH 43606; Ramallah, West Bank, Palestinian; Jenin, West Bank, Palestinian; Mar Elyas Street, Hiba Center, 1st Floor, Beirut, Lebanon; Pakistan [BPI-PA]
  

  
  
  "KindHearts is the progeny of [the Hamas-affiliated] Holy Land Foundation and [the al-Qaeda-affiliated] Global Relief Foundation, which attempted to mask their support for terrorism behind the facade of charitable giving," said Stuart Levey, Treasury's undersecretary for terrorism and financial intelligence.
  
  (In 2001, the Bush administration already froze the assets of the Holy Land and the Global Relief foundations)
  

[edit on 21-2-2006 by Riwka]