The Decline and Fall of Europe

What was the point of getting an engineering degree to be worse off than scum that have more children than any working man can afford?

That's one of Europe's biggest problems right there.
It's hard to convince people to work for minimum wage if you can have just as good a life by not working at all.

I think a lot of Europe's problems are related to their welfare programs and their muslim immigrants who are encomically inactive (52% inactive in Britain) and leeching off of the system.

Originally posted by CarlosG
What was the point of getting an engineering degree to be worse off than scum that have more children than any working man can afford?

Ehhhh??
Where did you go? Bosnia?

Here an engineering degree will probably get you on a 28 + k living tax free for starters.

you mention taxes.

i don't believe our taxes are too bad, as said we have a NHS system!! - i'm not sure on comparisions (ive not looked it up) but either way americans pay more taxes than us brits no matter what (you have to pay for insurance).

you mention the 'smarter and more ambitious go to america' true! (after all isn't america the land of opportunity) but we always hear about those who suceed, i bet the majority actaully FAIL and will end up living just a pretty average life.

but don't many of your celbs want there children to come to england to be educated?

ive read about your education system before in your schools, is it not true you don't learn about WORLD history in american schools? you only learn about the 'history of america' and thats basicly it.

you mention more patents come to america to be treated again, this maybe true!! - but it will all cost money, ive heard about charitys having to raise (quater of a million) just for a little girl to have a life saving operation in america.

if there is a cure for something america tends to have it a few months before the UK because they research more on new medicenes and cures more than any other country.

but what happens to those who can't raise (quarter of a million)? die or be treated or be in the UK for FREE.

you mention economy's our puny country (which is the size of one of your states) as a population of 60 million and has the 4th largest economy in the world.

you've made your prediction now i'm going to make mine.

china is the FASTEST growing economy in the world, and are tipped to be the next superpower...the japanise stock market is booming!! - the EU's POORER countrys are getting richer, therefor that will stop the 'RICHEST' EU countrys donating more money to these countrys.

my prediction 50/100 years time poverty will almost be a thing of the past, instead of just 1 global 'superpower' (as there is now), you'll find a world where ther a numerious global ^so called^ superpowers (china, britain, US, russia, japan, france, canada) infact probably all the current G8 countrys.

but as for your predication, america are not as far in front as you think!! you have made your 1 predcition that about ^the downfall of europe^, do a search on google about the downfall of america and how/why it might happen.

see it can happen as FASTER than you think - i should know, i'm from britain and it was only 70 years ago the british empire was still at large (from the 15 century). personally i can't see america being top dog for the next 400 (like we was) its now the 21st century, its a new era and a new world to those days - i predict maybe 50 at the most.

nothing lasts forever

ive often said, all this freeing iraq (iran) stuff is stupid really!! - just look at these countrys, they are massive oil rich countrys, land rich full of human resources - and with a stable govenment muslims could be the dominant species.

now thats a scary thought

Originally posted by ElTiante
So much to address:

Poverty in the US is middle class in a large part of the world. To be “poor” in the US means you are very likely to have:
A car
A color TV
A VCR
A frost fee refrigerator
A microwave oven
Central heat and AC
Cable TV

With regard to the notion of “free” college: NOTHING IS FREE. It is paid for by Europe’s confiscatory level of taxation on the few euros that bother to go to work. The smarter and more ambition come to America where their smarts and motivation are rewarded.

[edit on 14-2-2006 by st3ve_o]
Mod Edit: Quoting Etiquette – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 14-2-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Ehhhh??
Where did you go? Bosnia?

Here an engineering degree will probably get you on a 28 + k living tax free for starters.

No I spent 7 (yes seven) years at University (Aston) and left with £12K of debt, not bad going compare to some undergraduates I've met after only 3/4 years. I am now in my second year of work and nearly paid off the debt (roughly £700 per month).
However, because I have little work experience I can't command decent wages (on £21K at the moment). In a few years I should be earning the big bucks, but as of now (when I should be looking for a house) I can only get a £90k mortgage which wouldn't even buy me an ex-council house.
For comparison, I know a girl that lived nextdoor to me when I grew-up and she has had four kids to four different men (one before she should have taken her GSCEs) and is "earning" about £100 per month more than me through benefits, plus house better than anything I could afford right now.
No matter what you could say to me now, I have lost all faith in the wealthfare state and Britain in general. Additionally, I don't think America is as great as the Yanks would like you to think, but they are right about the stupidity of penialising the workers and giving lazy, think, scummy people who blatantly could work but can't be arsed, YOUR MONEY. If someone is genuinely ill and can't work, or out of work through no fault of their own and are actively seeking employment, then yes they should be helped. I am however certain that most people on the dole just can't be bothered, in fact they are probably the smart ones for getting money for doing nothing. /rant over

? Decline & Fall of Europe ?


the EU may be in turmoil, with all the readjusting between the western democracies & parliments and the Muslim-Islamic masses...but i sure don't forsee a 'Fall'.

If anyone falls, it would be Europes friend & ally...the USA.
the petro-dollar is about to be reduced to 2nd class,
the US economy is become a service economy & is fast losing the remaining industrial base.
the fed & the PTB, are constantly changing the meanings of GDP and CPI and the rate-of-inflation, also blurring the definition of minium-wage v. living-wage...so as to make their illusionary economy seem substantial.

check thisweb site, & the article ""The Approaching War With Iran""
which also addresses the stability & worthiness of the Fiat money called the USD=petrodollar....and its' anticipated Fall/Decline

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i'm heartened that your 401k has grown, but, alas, it too- like housing is in a 'bubble' with overpriced/overvalued equities....
unless your heavily into commodities like gold & precious metals, oil & other energy or resources.

I work at a corner store.
3 days a week.
every two weeks I have a week off
because the manager loves, yeah, loves me so much.
I earn a max of 250$ a month. I live in canada.
That is 3000$ a YEAR. The government doesn't want to help me
because I'm a student. But, I don't live with my parents,
So I need to survive ya? Their excuse is that my parents are
responcible for me. I am an adult, not a child, the gov should help me,
it doesn't. And better yet, my medical inssurance costs me money,
but it should be free cause I'm a student right? It costs me
because I don't live with my parents. So, the government
robs the poor, always using the same excuse.
The only reason that I am not dead in a ditch is because
I live with my girlfriend and her mother. And yes, we are poor, very poor.
We rashion food because we are afraid of not eating the next week.
This is Canada, a "rich" country that offers so much good things.
And then they wonder why suicide rates are increasing, along with crime.
I'd like to work more, but there are no jobs available for me.
I'm in college, pure and applied science, and yet, can't even become a damn janitor. THIS IS REALITY. So screw all who say the poor have it good. Yes, some morons will have kids to get benefits, but I work my ass off and struggle to survive.

but I work my ass off and struggle to survive.

That is the point I was sort of making. Work hard and be a good law abiding citizen and be treated like # by the government. I had to have part-time jobs in supermarkets and factories throughout my degrees just to survive, like you. I am still paying off those years.

BOO HOO HOO.
My job stinks. I’m not making enough. I’m poor
BOO HOO HOO

You are not owed a living.

If you’re not getting paid enough, then you need to upgrade your skills.

Prior to graduating college I worked at Burger King, McDonalds, Wendy’s and Popeyes. I did roofing in July and worked construction in freezing rain in January. If there’s a lousy job, I did it. I had a lot of debt when I graduated, but I also had skills employers wanted.


[edit on 15-2-2006 by ElTiante]

life's a bitc_h then you die eh!!

thats unless you like in the old ol US of A (acording to the dude who made this tread)

nah seriously, it does make you think though!! - like what is the purpose in life, are the MAJORITY of ALL people destined to work work work and little play?

do ONLY the select few, have health/wealth/happyness/enjoy their job/plently of free time (etc).

ive been trying to work out the purpose in life for someone in our era and ive come up with this quote from the film 'fight club'

-----
"God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy $hit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place".
-----

i still like to think of the human race as very primitive, people will look at us in the future as we look at people now from medieval times.

whats our pupose? - BREEDING MACHINES, nothing too much will happen in out lifetime.

Originally posted by Radekus
I work at a corner store.
3 days a week.
every two weeks I have a week off
because the manager loves, yeah, loves me so much.
I earn a max of 250$ a month. I live in canada.
That is 3000$ a YEAR. The government doesn't want to help me
because I'm a student. But, I don't live with my parents,
So I need to survive ya? Their excuse is that my parents are
responcible for me. I am an adult, not a child, the gov should help me,
it doesn't. And better yet, my medical inssurance costs me money,
but it should be free cause I'm a student right? It costs me
because I don't live with my parents. So, the government
robs the poor, always using the same excuse.
The only reason that I am not dead in a ditch is because
I live with my girlfriend and her mother. And yes, we are poor, very poor.
We rashion food because we are afraid of not eating the next week.
This is Canada, a "rich" country that offers so much good things.
And then they wonder why suicide rates are increasing, along with crime.
I'd like to work more, but there are no jobs available for me.
I'm in college, pure and applied science, and yet, can't even become a damn janitor. THIS IS REALITY. So screw all who say the poor have it good. Yes, some morons will have kids to get benefits, but I work my ass off and struggle to survive.

[edit on 15-2-2006 by st3ve_o]

Originally posted by st3ve_o
hi, well i'm from the UK and i must say i can't see why the AVERAGE citzen of america lives a 'BETTER' life than an AVERAGE citzen of great britain.

Look at the statistics. The average american has a significantly higher income than the average Briton and home ownership is higher in the US than in the UK. Which means the average american has a greater degree of control in his/her life than the average Briton.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
1) theres a HIGH poverty rate in some parts of america!!

Thats true troughout Briton and Europe as well isn't it.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
2) in large parts your land is unstable (earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes etc), you can be working all your life and *Boom* everything is just wiped out in a matter of hours.

The wrath of god not withstanding these so called unstable areas are some of the wealthiest regions in the world. Regions such as California, Florida and Texas. I think it shows just how tough is yanks are to take beating like that and then just get back up and go back to work.

Originally posted by st3ve
3) you don't have an health care system, if an american takes bad and needs a 'serious' operation that person could be then $THOUSANDS$ in-debt afterwards.

We have a health care system. It may not be as comprehensive as the one you have in the UK. But it is of higher quality. I mean I was watching ITV news and every other day they were talking about the MRSA epidemic throughout UK hospitals. MRSA is virtually unknow in the US. Your doctors and nurses need to wash their hands more.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
the UK has a NHS and its good for me to know that if i ever take bad i'll be straight in the hospital and have an operation 'FREE'. dental treatment is free.

Yeah me too. I live here in California and I qualified for Medi-Cal and Denti-Cal and all my services are free too.

]Originally posted by st3ve_o
4) our welfare system is better than yours, we offer 'unemployed people' greater benefts (to support them while they are out of work) and better schemes to get them back into work.

The problem is its so good often the people who get on it don't want to get off.

Originally posted by st3ve
5) our education system is better than yours, college is 'FREE' university is 'FREE' but if you want to go to uni you can have a top up fee, in which you don't have to pay back until you are working and earning (and if you earn less than £10,000) you don't have to pay your fee back at all.

Highly debatable my friend. While your education may be free it is often of inferior quality. Just look at the Shanghai rankings of the worlds best universities. 8 out of the top 10 are american and 22 out of the top 30 are american.

Originally posted by st3ve
in america if your poor and you want an education - you basicly have just one option, 'THE MILITARY'.

Again not true I'm from a working class family and I am a college graduate. I've never been remotely interested in the military. College isn't that expensive even for a student who graduated high school even for one that did it by the skin of his teeth.

Originally posted by st3ve
6) in some US states your public service's are poor!! - i watched a documentry the other week (i forget which american state it was now),

but it was interviewing this 1 american police officer and he was saying how only 7 patrol cars are operating in just 1 state ALONE (and that state has grand total of just 27 police officers) - keeping law and order in the WHOLE of that state

thats quite shocking, (in size most american states are the size of most european countrys)!!
---

What utter BS. I'm sorry that statement is total crap. You should post a link for that statement.

Originally posted by devilwasp
Here an engineering degree will probably get you on a 28 + k living tax free for starters.

In the states it'll get you at least 40k as soon as you walk in the door

Highly debatable my friend. While your education may be free it is often of inferior quality. Just look at the Shanghai rankings of the worlds best universities. 8 out of the top 10 are american and 22 out of the top 30 are american.

Two of the top ten are in the UK and four of the top thirty are in the UK.
That's not too bad for a country with about one fifth of the population of the US.

In fact, that's about the same amount in per capita terms.

The UK is well represented on the list of the top one hundred with eleven UK universities on the list. Greater than ten percent.
Top 500 World Universities (1-100)

Originally posted by st3ve_o
life's a bitc_h then you die eh!!

That may be some peoples take on it.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
thats unless you like in the old ol US of A (acording to the dude who made this tread)

Maybe because he is a yank thats happy with his life and is not one of the so called poor american masses just working for the man.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
nah seriously, it does make you think though!! - like what is the purpose in life, are the MAJORITY of ALL people destined to work work work and little play?

Not the way I look at things. Here in the US you have more oportunity than anyother place on earth to make a good happy life for yourself.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
do ONLY the select few, have health/wealth/happyness/enjoy their job/plently of free time (etc).

No in fact compared to most other places in the world and this includes europe, americans are richer and happier than they ever have been before.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
ive been trying to work out the purpose in life for someone in our era and ive come up with this quote from the film 'fight club'

-----
"God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy $hit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place".
-----

That was a great movie and in recently watching it again and by reviewing life experiences I find that statements like that are made by people who have put themselves in that place of hopelessness and despair. If working for a boss isn't what you want than don't. If being an anonymous automaton of society isn't what you want than don't become one. I didn't want to and I never have. I've got a profitable home business now. I control my own destiny.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
i still like to think of the human race as very primitive, people will look at us in the future as we look at people now from medieval times.

Possibly true but maybe they'll see as as the first to bagin to awaken our full potential as a race.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
whats our pupose? - BREEDING MACHINES, nothing too much will happen in out lifetime.

Whats our purpose? I have no clue. What is my purpose? Of this I am certain. My purpose isn't to just survive but to thrive. Survival isn't enough I will only settle for the piece of the pie which I believe I'm entitled too. And I don't relay on anyone else to hand it to me.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
Two of the top ten are in the UK and four of the top thirty are in the UK.
That's not too bad for a country with about one fifth of the population of the US.

True like I said it was debatable.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
The UK is well represented on the list of the top one hundred with eleven UK universities on the list. Greater than ten percent.

Yes but what of europe as a whole? Europe makes up abot a third of the last while America makes up over half. The UK whether the Brits like to admit it or not share far more similarities with the US than differences.

[edit on 15-2-2006 by danwild6]

hi, i'm no good at those quotes so i'll reply to you all in one thread.

1) you mention pay - thats maybe true, but we have a totally different curency to the US$ what we in earn in £ in an average job is very sutable to make a living off!!

at the moment i'm living with my parents!! - i've just turned 24 and a bum (only messing, need to start looking soon) but at home my dad is dustbin man and my mother is a cleaner - we have a car/mortgage payed-off/skytv/dvd/video/42 inch tv/computer (with internet as you can see) - so as you can see we have far enough income in the house to support us.

i can buy something in £ from america and its REALLY cheap for me!! - i bought something the other week for $40 - that was £23 in our money, (about 2/3 hours work in an average job).

but for an american buying the same thing it won't be AS cheap them, because at present the £ is stronger than the US$.

2) poverty, not really! maybe in some small countrys in eastern europe as an high poverty rate but we don't really in the UK - but as i said to the dude who created this thread!!

eastern europe is slowly getting richer (see previous posts for an explanation).

america theres 36 million in poverty (approx 1 in 5 people)!! - thats the size of a lot of european countrys - its an issue in america, don't try and deny the fact it isn't.

3) education and the military - see 'Fahrenheit 9/11'

4) poor police force - again thinking about it, it may have come from 'Fahrenheit 9/11'

5) welfare, you say "The problem is its so good often the people who get on it don't want to get off"

what about those people who have no option (theres no job for EVERY SINGLE PERSON)!! - does the great US of A just let them suffer?, oh i know they just give them food and hardly no benefits and income for them to support themself, nice country!!

6) america's unstable land - all said and done though it's still an unstable land

Originally posted by danwild6

Originally posted by st3ve_o
hi, well i'm from the UK and i must say i can't see why the AVERAGE citzen of america lives a 'BETTER' life than an AVERAGE citzen of great britain.

Look at the statistics. The average american has a significantly higher income than the average Briton and home ownership is higher in the US than in the UK. Which means the average american has a greater degree of control in his/her life than the average Briton.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
1) theres a HIGH poverty rate in some parts of america!!

Thats true troughout Briton and Europe as well isn't it.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
2) in large parts your land is unstable (earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes etc), you can be working all your life and *Boom* everything is just wiped out in a matter of hours.

The wrath of god not withstanding these so called unstable areas are some of the wealthiest regions in the world. Regions such as California, Florida and Texas. I think it shows just how tough is yanks are to take beating like that and then just get back up and go back to work.

Originally posted by st3ve
3) you don't have an health care system, if an american takes bad and needs a 'serious' operation that person could be then $THOUSANDS$ in-debt afterwards.

We have a health care system. It may not be as comprehensive as the one you have in the UK. But it is of higher quality. I mean I was watching ITV news and every other day they were talking about the MRSA epidemic throughout UK hospitals. MRSA is virtually unknow in the US. Your doctors and nurses need to wash their hands more.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
the UK has a NHS and its good for me to know that if i ever take bad i'll be straight in the hospital and have an operation 'FREE'. dental treatment is free.

Yeah me too. I live here in California and I qualified for Medi-Cal and Denti-Cal and all my services are free too.

]Originally posted by st3ve_o
4) our welfare system is better than yours, we offer 'unemployed people' greater benefts (to support them while they are out of work) and better schemes to get them back into work.

The problem is its so good often the people who get on it don't want to get off.

Originally posted by st3ve
5) our education system is better than yours, college is 'FREE' university is 'FREE' but if you want to go to uni you can have a top up fee, in which you don't have to pay back until you are working and earning (and if you earn less than £10,000) you don't have to pay your fee back at all.

Highly debatable my friend. While your education may be free it is often of inferior quality. Just look at the Shanghai rankings of the worlds best universities. 8 out of the top 10 are american and 22 out of the top 30 are american.

Originally posted by st3ve
in america if your poor and you want an education - you basicly have just one option, 'THE MILITARY'.

Again not true I'm from a working class family and I am a college graduate. I've never been remotely interested in the military. College isn't that expensive even for a student who graduated high school even for one that did it by the skin of his teeth.

Originally posted by st3ve
6) in some US states your public service's are poor!! - i watched a documentry the other week (i forget which american state it was now),

but it was interviewing this 1 american police officer and he was saying how only 7 patrol cars are operating in just 1 state ALONE (and that state has grand total of just 27 police officers) - keeping law and order in the WHOLE of that state

thats quite shocking, (in size most american states are the size of most european countrys)!!
---

What utter BS. I'm sorry that statement is total crap. You should post a link for that statement.

[edit on 15-2-2006 by st3ve_o]

i'll not really going to bother replying to this, you've basicly just repeated yourself twice over!! *see above post*

Originally posted by danwild6

Originally posted by st3ve_o
life's a bitc_h then you die eh!!

That may be some peoples take on it.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
thats unless you like in the old ol US of A (acording to the dude who made this tread)

Maybe because he is a yank thats happy with his life and is not one of the so called poor american masses just working for the man.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
nah seriously, it does make you think though!! - like what is the purpose in life, are the MAJORITY of ALL people destined to work work work and little play?

Not the way I look at things. Here in the US you have more oportunity than anyother place on earth to make a good happy life for yourself.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
do ONLY the select few, have health/wealth/happyness/enjoy their job/plently of free time (etc).

No in fact compared to most other places in the world and this includes europe, americans are richer and happier than they ever have been before.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
ive been trying to work out the purpose in life for someone in our era and ive come up with this quote from the film 'fight club'

-----
"God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy $hit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place".
-----

That was a great movie and in recently watching it again and by reviewing life experiences I find that statements like that are made by people who have put themselves in that place of hopelessness and despair. If working for a boss isn't what you want than don't. If being an anonymous automaton of society isn't what you want than don't become one. I didn't want to and I never have. I've got a profitable home business now. I control my own destiny.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
i still like to think of the human race as very primitive, people will look at us in the future as we look at people now from medieval times.

Possibly true but maybe they'll see as as the first to bagin to awaken our full potential as a race.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
whats our pupose? - BREEDING MACHINES, nothing too much will happen in out lifetime.

Whats our purpose? I have no clue. What is my purpose? Of this I am certain. My purpose isn't to just survive but to thrive. Survival isn't enough I will only settle for the piece of the pie which I believe I'm entitled too. And I don't relay on anyone else to hand it to me.

[edit on 15-2-2006 by st3ve_o]

Originally posted by st3ve_o
1) you mention pay - thats maybe true, but we have a totally different curency to the US$ what we in earn in £ in an average job is very sutable to make a living off!!

The statement I made was true I accounted for currency differences.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
at the moment i'm living with my parents, i've just turned 24 and a bum

(only messing, need to start looking soon) but at home my dad is dustbin man and my mother is a cleaner - we have a car/mortgage payed-off/skytv/dvd/video/42 inch tv/computer (with internet as you can see) - so as you can see we have far enough income in the house to support us.

Not too different from the way I grew up. My dad was and is a machinist may mother was and is a medical-claims processor.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
2) poverty, not really! maybe in some parts of eastern europe as an high poverty rate but we don't really in the UK - but as i said to the dude who created this thread!!

eastern europe is slowly getting richer (see previous posts for an explanation).

Sorry mate not according to these statistics.

UK poverty statistics

Originally posted bySt3ve_o
america theres 36 million in poverty (approx 1 in 5 people)!! - thats the size of a lot of european countrys

- its an issue in america, don't try and deny the fact it isn't.

Actually its more like 1 in 8 as the US has a population of over 300,000,000 now.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
3) education and the military - see 'Fahrenheit 9/11'

First of all I prefer to educate myself rather than just sit in front of a movie or television screen and listen to someone who probably has an agenda of their own whether their from the left or the right.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
4) poor police force - again thinking about it, it may have come from 'Fahrenheit 9/11'

Now who's repeating themselves.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
5) welfare, you say "The problem is its so good often the people who get on it don't want to get off"

what about those people who have no option (theres not job for EVERY SINGLE PERSON)!! - does the great US of A just let them suffer?, oh i know they just give them food!! and hardly no benefits and income for them to support themself, nice country.

No we don't just let them suffer. However we don't coddle them into self perpetuating poverty. Sure just about everyone falls on hard times now and then but their a difference between a helping hand and the social policy you prescribe

Originally posted by st3ve_o
6) america's unstable land - all said and done though it's still an unstable land

And just like I said before its just another adversity to overcome to make us stronger.

Originally posted by Zion Mainframe
The personal savings rate of an American was negative in 2005 (-0,5%), which has not happened since the Great Depression. I would be more worried about that.

I'm an American... They didn't have credit cards back then. Sounds simple but you have to take that into consideration. Yes... Americans spend more money then they have. Our economy is strong because we don't save money. Probably going to bite us in the rear sooner or later. But we always think something will work itself out to save our asses. Worked so far heh? But the technologically advanced times we live in make it... gonna choose my words carefully here... naive? To compare it to the Great Depression isn't a good analogy.

I, as an American, am more concerned with the soon to be retiring 50 some million baby boomers and the possible outsourced jobs that may be resulting. We can't possibly replace those jobs quick enough.

We can't compete with the Chinese in manufacturing and lots of companies want to send their work over seas. We've lived comfortably for a long time and refuse to take pay cuts. It's getting tougher and tougher to keep the "blue collar" work in the U.S. Soon we will be a service and technology based economy where only the extremely educated and extremely uneducated survive. Damn Unions. *wink*

Did I mention I'm American?

[edit on 15-2-2006 by LostSailor]

1) subject closed in my opinion!!

2) wow, cheers for that!! well britains population is 60 million (1-4) = 15 million, i must say i find that hard to believe!! - i'm going to research into this more because you gave me just ONE website which supports your statements and i'm sure i can find plently which will support me up

see where i live (just a middle class area nothing special) theres not much poverty, and the places ive been to doesn't support the fact that (1-4) people are in poverty!!

maybe its the fact over here, that if you've got a roof over your head, dvd, tv, car (but NO sky or cable) your classed as poor

but now from me going from defending back onto the attack!! - 36 million in 300 million is still a lot dude, especially for the 'worlds richest country'.

3) same here, but that film is not 'fiction' its 'reality tv' - real people with real lifes!!

4) i'll repeat myself again *see question3*

5) i guess thats what makes our cultures different then my friend

6) maybe it makes you stronger as a person (but not in your pocket)

but the whole point about this debate is about 'living in america' vs 'living in europe' or the UK (right?) - so for me this is a key point!! one factor in living in america there's A LOT of natural disasters, in the UK i don't think we've had any!!

so making you stronger as a person is a totally different issue to financially!! - being in poverty can make you a 'stronger person!!'

being bulled at school can make you a 'stronger person' - but being a stronger person or not, doesn't come into this topic

ps:- reading back at your last post i forgot one thing, you mention MRSA and how its 'virtually unknown in the US?' - thats why 1 of every 166 children in America catch it and why it costs american tax payers $17 billion to $30 billion per year!!

but we don't have rabies in this country, maybe you should bath your animals more?

Originally posted by danwild6

Originally posted by st3ve_o
1) you mention pay - thats maybe true, but we have a totally different curency to the US$ what we in earn in £ in an average job is very sutable to make a living off!!

The statement I made was true I accounted for currency differences.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
at the moment i'm living with my parents, i've just turned 24 and a bum

(only messing, need to start looking soon) but at home my dad is dustbin man and my mother is a cleaner - we have a car/mortgage payed-off/skytv/dvd/video/42 inch tv/computer (with internet as you can see) - so as you can see we have far enough income in the house to support us.

Not too different from the way I grew up. My dad was and is a machinist may mother was and is a medical-claims processor.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
2) poverty, not really! maybe in some parts of eastern europe as an high poverty rate but we don't really in the UK - but as i said to the dude who created this thread!!

eastern europe is slowly getting richer (see previous posts for an explanation).

Sorry mate not according to these statistics.

UK poverty statistics

Originally posted bySt3ve_o
america theres 36 million in poverty (approx 1 in 5 people)!! - thats the size of a lot of european countrys

- its an issue in america, don't try and deny the fact it isn't.

Actually its more like 1 in 8 as the US has a population of over 300,000,000 now.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
3) education and the military - see 'Fahrenheit 9/11'

First of all I prefer to educate myself rather than just sit in front of a movie or television screen and listen to someone who probably has an agenda of their own whether their from the left or the right.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
4) poor police force - again thinking about it, it may have come from 'Fahrenheit 9/11'

Now who's repeating themselves.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
5) welfare, you say "The problem is its so good often the people who get on it don't want to get off"

what about those people who have no option (theres not job for EVERY SINGLE PERSON)!! - does the great US of A just let them suffer?, oh i know they just give them food!! and hardly no benefits and income for them to support themself, nice country.

No we don't just let them suffer. However we don't coddle them into self perpetuating poverty. Sure just about everyone falls on hard times now and then but their a difference between a helping hand and the social policy you prescribe

Originally posted by st3ve_o
6) america's unstable land - all said and done though it's still an unstable land

And just like I said before its just another adversity to overcome to make us stronger.

[edit on 15-2-2006 by st3ve_o]

Originally posted by st3ve_o
2) wow, cheers for that!! well britains population is 60 million (1-4) = 15 million, i must say i find that hard to believe!! - i'm going to research into this more because you gave me just ONE website which supports your statements and i'm sure i can find plently which will support me up

Here are are a few more links to back up my arguement.

Link
BBC

Originally posted by st3ve_o
see where i live (just a middle class area nothing special) theres not much poverty, and the places ive been to doesn't support the fact that (1-4) people are in poverty!!

Hey I've experienced the same. My neighborhood is middle-class and pretty prosperous.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
maybe its the fact over here, that if you've got a roof over your head, dvd, tv, car (but NO sky or cable) your classed as poor

US poor are not so poor

Originally posted by st3ve_o
but now from me going from defending back onto the attack!!

- 36 million in 300 million is still a lot dude, especially for the 'worlds richest country'.

Didn't say it wasn't. But we expect different things from people over here. We don't expect the government to take care of us or to shower us with entitlement programs. We've always been a society that aspires to self-reliance. Probably to our detriment.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
3) same here, but that film is not 'fiction' its 'reality tv' - real people with real lifes!!

It is reality to one person who is trying to sell it to others. I have seen many of Micheal Moore's [sarcasm]documentaries[/sarcasm] and have found that he likes to take liberties with the facts.

Fuzzy facts

Originally posted by st3ve_o
6) maybe it makes your stronger as a person (but not in your pocket)

, but the whole point about this debate is about 'living in america' vs 'living in europe' or the UK (is it not?)

- so for me this is a key point!! one factor in living in america is A LOT of natural disasters, in the UK i don't think we've had any!!

Well okay but look at the size of the UK compared to america. We're a continental nation. We are going to have more natural disasters because we span a far larger area.

Besides there's not much we can do about them accept prepare for them. Now granted we did a pretty crappy job last time around but everyone screw up now and then. Unfortunately with Katrina it meant alot of people died.

But I'll take the hurricanes if the rest of the year I can sit on a Florida beach watching some of the most beautiful women in the world walk by me in skimpy bikinis.

And I'll also take the earthquakes here in California which created the mountains which created the San Joaquin valley in which I live. And over the past week have experienced the best weather in the world. 70* Farenheight in mid-winter.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
so making you stronger as a person is a totally different issue to finacally!! - being in poverty can make a 'stronger person!!'

being bulled at school can make you 'stronger person' - but being a stronger person or not, doesn't come into this topic

Not totally. People who become stronger mentally and spiritually are by far more likely to succeed in life. Wouldn't you agree?

Originally posted by st3ve_o
ps:- reading back at your last post i forgot one thing, you mention MRSA and how its 'virtually unknown in the US' thats why one of every 166 children in America catch it and why it costs american tax payers $17 billion to $30 billion per year!!

Cold you provide a link to your statistics. I've found one that says we might be talking about two different things.

link

Originally posted by st3ve_o
but we don't have rabies in this country, maybe you should bath your animals more?

Most of the animals in the US aren't pets their wild animals. You try bathing a mountain lion or grizzly bear








[edit on 15-2-2006 by danwild6]