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Russia newest Attack Sub.

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posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 04:02 PM
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I am not sure what you are thinking here.

Long before there was GPS systems available to the general public the US Navy had Nav Sat in operation. All they have to do is come up to periscope depth and raise a antenna get a quick fix and update on their INS system, dive and keep going.

Dont you think this system was checked out for accuracy by sneaking into foreign harbors/waters. I dont know if you are aware of it but US Submarines have been operating in foreign waters close to shore for years ..even before NAV Sat. Sub skippers are like pilots..they know who has brass ones hanging..and who doesnt. The public doesnt know ..but in the trade is is surely known.
If our boats are so ordered they " will " enter these waters and get these boomers...and other boats/ships too.

The new boats being built are designed with Littorial operations in mind. This means they are designed to come in close to shore. This does not mean it was not done with older boats years ago. 637 class or also known as Sturgeon class boats did alot of this type of work..as did others class boats before them. US Navy diesel boats were operating in Russian waters for years...and close in too.....long before Nuclear boats took over.


Just something for you to think about Shadow.

Thanks,
Orangetom




posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Well the US subs might still have the edge in sound emissions but thats really all speculation those true stats are still quite secret. I dont believe they ever really needed to be that quiet though as I think their warplans called for their SSBN's to launch their weapons well inside soviet waters behind minefields and ASW hunter killer groups.

I believe the Russian Alpha class was the fastest and deepest diving military class sub in the world. The Russian have also by far made the largest military submarines in the world.


The seawolf is the quietest submarine in the world by a long way. The russian SSBN's might launch there missiles well inside there own waters but the russian attack subs would need to get close to the us subs(therefore into the us waters) to destroy the us SSBN's. Also i think that the range of the russian SSBN launced ICBM's was a bit short so the russians had to go out a fair way from the SSBN's home port to launch her missiles. Also if as orangetom says, that us subs operated in russian costal waters then quietness would come into it.

having a fast submarine is good but was it fast and quiet? if it was fast and noisy then it would have been blown up by a us missile before it detected the us sub, having blinded its own sonar with the noise it made. What does size have to do with it. Size means that you need more powerful engine, increased water resistance therefore lower speed, less agile, bigger target, terrible when operating in inshore waters.

Justin



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 09:39 PM
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Yeah, but the point is that the Sevordvinsk or whatever it is is supposed to be as quiet as the seawolf, if not quieter.
I had read about this somewhere about a year or so before.



posted on Feb, 15 2006 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
Yeah, but the point is that the Sevordvinsk or whatever it is is supposed to be as quiet as the seawolf, if not quieter.
I had read about this somewhere about a year or so before.


Hmm supposed to be, the Russian's hvaen't even released a picture of it. You can hardly rely on speculation.
BTW, is the Virginai quieter than a Seawolf ?



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 01:39 AM
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yes i am sure the Vin is quieter as its newer with TONS of new tech, thats the subs we know about, that does the US have that we dont know about? black projects? the call it the silent service for a reason and its all scary



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by Char2c35t
yes i am sure the Vin is quieter as its newer with TONS of new tech, thats the subs we know about, that does the US have that we dont know about? black projects? the call it the silent service for a reason and its all scary




The noise level of the Virginia is equal to that of the US Navy Seawolf, SSN 21, with a lower acoustic signature than the Russian Improved Akula Class and Russian Fourth Generation Attack Submarines.
[source] www.naval-technology.com... [/source]


The Virginia class might be new but the seawolf was built to be the most technologically advanced submarine ever. i assume that a lot of the virginia class submarines use technology based on the seawolf maybe slightly more advanced but cheaper so that the us navy can afford more than 4 of them.

www.naval-technology.com...

This link shows that the us do have the edge and have had the edge since 1960.

Justin

[edit on 16-2-2006 by justin_barton3]

[edit on 16-2-2006 by justin_barton3]



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 01:58 AM
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Seawolf hulls are made of a different metal compostion than are Virginias accounting for some of the difference in costs. Electronics are updated on Virginias as are some other systems since the Seawolfs. They are both electronic wonders as are many weapons systems now days.
The Seawolfs are so complex that they are down often for repairs or parts...they are called Pierwolves in the trades. I believe this is what is called over engineered in some schools..not enough KISS principle working here. This was covered somewhat in the board ..Reasons for WW2 about
German technology and designs in that war.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 02:03 AM
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The Virginia is as quiet as Seawolf, but doesn't have the deep water, or under ice capabilities of the Seawolfs. It does have a better close to shore capability however.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 03:10 AM
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Under Ice means a reinforced Sail structure. If you look at older boats operating in under ice conditions...to break through the ice ..the wings or more appropriately fairwater planes...were on the sides of the sail structure. These boats had these wings or fairwater planes which would turn straight up..vertical..to allow them to come through the ice. They were smaller planes than on later boats.
They also had a heavily reinforced sail structure.
In later boats they removed these wings or fairwater planes from the sail structures altogether and put them in retractable bow planes ...in the foreward ballast tanks. This removes them from the sail structure altogether so that they are not a under ice problem.
Seawolf is a cold war era design of boat. The Virginias are not. Cold war doctrine meant lots of operations at the poles. Hiding in and around the ice. Very difficult ..hunting around the ice packs.
Barring any type of accident or casualty ..there is little reason for a boat to surface through the ice now days. Submarines are vulnurable on the surface...any boat. Nuclear submarines have mostly the limits of their provisions/food..they can stay down till they run out of food if necessary.
Not much use to break through the ice anymore..to reveal ones positon or presence.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 04:38 AM
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I don't know but somebody on this forum had posted something one of their acquaintances having been aboard an USN SSN/SSBN which according to that source was tailed by a Akula I for days before they realised it.
Was it any of you?
Anyhow I'll find that post in a while..

Anyways, there are reoprts that the Russian are leasing/selling 2 AkulaII subs to the Indian Navy. So much for them keeping their best stuff to themselves!! The Akula is supposed to be the most advanced Russian SSN in service.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 04:40 AM
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I had a friend that was on an LA that had an Akula sneak up on them, but I don't think they were trailed for days.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 05:03 AM
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Yup it was you Mr Beeblebrox


Originally posted by Zaphod58

Originally posted by COWlan
2 Akula IIs. Russia only has at most 3 Akula IIs in service and I doubt they all go out for lease (come on, Russia's gotta keep one at least). Akula I/II are no match for even basic LA class SSNs as the FCS of Akulas sucked crap and they could only match the acoustic characteristics of LA class at slow speeds so they are even less of a match for improved LA class, Virginnia class and (why is this even here) Sea Wolf class. I'd like some "official" declaration too on this, a website with bollywood pop-up ads doesn't do it for me.

India is acquiring 2 more Kilos? Thats new, haven't heard of that.

Scorpenes sure are a lot more expensive than Kilos eh, they should be a lot better than the 877s that India has? 3 Bil for 6, Kilos are 1bil for 5 P636.


That's not true. I know several guys that served on LAs and they all told me stories of them cruising along minding their own business and suddenly getting hit by sonar from an Akula I that snuck up on them. The first they knew about it was when the sonar started bouncing off their hull

[edit on 13-9-2005 by Zaphod58]



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 06:50 AM
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When the USS Luisianna was doing its acceptance sea trials, it was followed by an Akula, that they didn't know was there...



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by Brende
When the USS Luisianna was doing its acceptance sea trials, it was followed by an Akula, that they didn't know was there...


My understanding of submarines is that they make more noise when they go faster and that therefore most submarines are either very quiet or silent at under 5 knots. Also when submarines go faster and make more noise the noise they make interferes with the subs own sonar and sonar is often particullaly bad dead astern so it doesnt suprise me that The most advanced russian submarine was able to follow a us prototype. How do you know that the us sub didnt know that the akula wasnt there and that the us sub didnt just ignore the akula?

Justin



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by justin_barton3

Originally posted by Brende
When the USS Luisianna was doing its acceptance sea trials, it was followed by an Akula, that they didn't know was there...


How do you know that the us sub didnt know that the akula wasnt there and that the us sub didnt just ignore the akula?

Justin


Well IMO he's just saying what he heard, and he must have heard it from somewhere.
Why don't you ask him the source of his info, instead of assuming probabililties?


And about just ignoring the Akula.. Well I hope the USN doesn't work thatway



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 10:20 AM
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Well IMO he's just saying what he heard, and he must have heard it from somewhere.
Why don't you ask him the source of his info, instead of assuming probabililties?


And about just ignoring the Akula.. Well I hope the USN doesn't work thatway


Where did u hear about the us sub being followed by a russian akula???

Daedalus3 when i said that maybe the us sub just ignored the russian sub i ment that maybe the us sub didnt do anything drastic and just carried on its way. After all officially we arent at war with Russia. And by the way what probabilities did i assume???

Justin



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 10:49 AM
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I would very much like to see the source of this supposed Akula story.

And since SSBN acceptance trials are usually on our side of the pond, and Russian SSN's don't get out past the GI-UK gap much anymore, it would be highly unlikely that that would have ever happened in our territorial waters.

AND, if there were any indications that an Akula was anywhere within 1,000 nm of a new SSBN out for trials, you can be damn sure that there would have been at tleast one SSN in the immediate vicinity for "delousing" duties.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 08:51 PM
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There was a 688 out there, just not very close. My sources are multiple first hand accounts from people on that submarine. I am an active duty submariner, and there are lots of things that people just don't know about, nor should they know.

[edit on 2/17/2006 by Brende]



posted on Feb, 18 2006 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by emile
I don't know why I couldn't search any photos of new Rassian attack-sub?
I am sure the newest Russian attack-sub has been luanched, but only one picture by image has showoned this submarine.

The picture showed the sub looks like a sub showed in science fiction movie.

No. 1, that's a photshop job.
No. 2, the Russian government's pretty strapped for cash at the moment, which means they're having to prioritise which particular military projects are deemd most worthy by the wise men in the Kremlin. Every so often, funding for one project gets switched to another one, which means that the first project languishes and the second project gets the oppurtunity to jump off of the drawing board.
No. 3, even if this new sub project does get the funding required to go into production, the Russians will still find that the sub's sonar and weapons systems are still years (perhaps a decade) behind, quality wise, what the Americans and Brits have.



posted on Feb, 18 2006 @ 12:55 AM
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Exactly.. And you can't prove/refute such sources of info..
Same with what Zaphod said.



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