NEWS: Dick Cheney Accidentally Shoots Hunting Partner

Originally posted by dgtempe

This is all arrogance. Its the same ongoing problem we've had with this bunch since they took office.

This only re-emphasizes the fact that Bush reports to Cheney and Cheney doesnt report to anyone.

Originally posted by Astronomer68
You think he had in mind eating his friend after he shot him?

Soylent Green is PEOPLE!

No, but the point about hunting quail (and ducks, pheasants etc) is that you take them home and give them to your Suzy-homemaker wife to turn into dinner for you.

Which is why 28 gauge shotguns are used, not 12 gauges. A 12 gauge packing a full load will tear a small bird apart (they ain't pretty on ducks sometimes, either) leaving you a slowly descending puff of feathers where the quail used to be.

But as someone pointed out, these are quail raised to be hunted by rich white men (and their running dog ambassador lackeys:lol who obviously don't need to supplement their meagre income.

When I went spotlighting it was threefold.

1. Rabbits are an intorduced pest in Australia (and Calici virus didn't exist yet).

2. Rabbit tastes damn good, especially spit-roasted.

3. Guns are fun, man, even bolt-action twenty-twos.

But the rules were simple, you never fired outside of the spotlight-illuminated area. You never fired while the ute was in motion. You never fired if someone had left the ute and you couldn't see them (which pretty much means you didn't fire because if you could see them they had to be in the beam of the spotilight! Best exception was people in front of the headlights while the spotlight was pointed to the side of the ute).

And Dick broke the rules of handling firearms. And he broke the (state) rules of hunting. And he broke the (unwritten) rules of disclosure. Dick is not a private citizen and pretty much has no private business, through his own choice.

Even Fitzwater, former press secretary for Bush Sr. and Reagan, says McClellan has no sense about him.





Wonder what kind of meds he is on for that lame foot? Must of been some good ones to shoot a man damn near at point blank range.. i.e spread is about 4 feet after travelling 90 feet. Police report graphic looks like a 1 foot spread. Wonder what excuse they would have if he shot the dogs too, since they don't announce themselves.

Now watch some boneheaded poster try to spin this into a blame Clinton craputopia of rhetorical nonsense.

Wonder if read this before they look like a damn fool. ATS Bush and Clinton. The Two Headed Coin

[edit on 14-2-2006 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by loam
psyopswatcher:

I found this article interesting...

In Texas, hunting is a tool for business bonding

Interesting, loam. And I suspected as much. Could business matters be a big enough distraction from the clear concentration it takes to pop off a shot?

Now... what business bonding does a VP, a US Ambassador to Switzerland (ex-Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board Chairman), and a campaign contributor from Tom Delay's hometown have in common to do business over?

The business of government?

I also think this one is interesting... on the topic of how the incident was reported...

Slow Leak: How Cheney Stalled News Reports of Hunting Accident

My question is not so much how, but WHY?


It's always been my biggest pet peeve with journalists these days that they can't come up with the simple answers to Who, What, Where, When, and WHY.

Why would Cheney stall the news reports? We can squabble all day over the rules of the hunt and if he will end up above the law, but he had obviously had a motive to stall and I suspect an agenda for being there in the first place.

Could it have been a part of that agenda that distracted him from everything he knows about hunting safety?

You don't think he's covering up for the girl?

Or this:

Did Cheney Intend to Shoot Whittington?

This stinks of cover-up, too, especially considering law enforcement was not permitted on the premises for 48 hours, a police officer was shoved away from one of the eye witnesses before she could question her, and evidence was removed from the scene.

I just have to pipe in on this one.. To state a few things I've noticed..

He was shot.. at a range of 30 yards.. that's 90 feet.. With a 28 gauge shot gun (Rather small) loaded with Bird shot (Practically dust, but just very small bearings)

Ok so at 30 yards, shooting someone with such a small shot, the shot would disperse and do little damage, Shooting someone at 30 yards with a 28 gauge shotgun is just going to really irritate them and not do tooooo much damage, Might just break the skin!

Hell, shooting someone at 30 yards with a 12 gauge shot gun will just annoy them. He was wearing a bright orange vest..

And now today he has a "heart attack" from a bearing that made it's way through his blood stream and into his heart? yet it didnt clog his arteries or veins at all? *COUGH*

So... Either, Cheney was meant to kill this guy and the 3rd man was supposed to be a witness to the "Accident" or someone is lying about the circumstances.. I dont believe the official story at all..

Just a few notes.

12 gauge = .729 inch (Diameter of the bearing)
28 gauge = .550 inch (Diameter of the bearing) It is the second to smallest gauge

Here is also the link for some of my source, Please note the "Table of shotgun chokes
for a 12 gauge shotgun using lead shot" I realise this is the table for 12 gauge, but still states that its effective range is still only 40yards and is 3 gauges larger than what Cheney was shooting with..

Answers.com

Ox, I'm sorry, but get a clue! Why don't you stand up there and get shot at 30 yards with a 28 gauge shooting a 7.5 load, much less a 12 gauge, and tell us how irritated you are. You are talking out your butt. A modified choke commonly used while quail hunting to hold the pattern together at that range would not only penetrate, but it would gravely injure you. There is a man in intensive care right now as a result of being shot under these circumstances. Have some heart!

edit to add

Maybe you are saying the shot was much closer than 30 yards, as you state disbelief of the official story. If so, please ignore the above. I do stand by my statement that even at 30 yards the impact of the shot would be quite significant.

[edit on 14-2-2006 by Icarus Rising]

Mrs. Armstrong told NBC News that there was 'a beer or two'.

The article was there, then it was not, then it came back changed.

Google archived a snip of it:

Cheney's hunting host lobbied White House
MSNBC - 2 hours ago
... incident. "There may be a beer or two in there," she said, "but remember not everyone in the party was shooting.". Armstrong ...

Google News Search

Have a look at the article now:

Cheney's hunting host lobbied White House

Not a beer to be found anywhere.

Who has the power to stomp this out?

Was Cheney DRUNK?

Would that explain why he spent the next day hiding out, so that he could sleep it off?

I'd like to explain why I brought up Vince Foster (see three posts up). For those of you who don't remember, the FBI was barred from investigating the scene where he allegedly killed himself for two days, a police officer who started to ask an witness about the event was forcibly pushed out of the room by White House aids, and files were seen to be removed by White House aids, then given the Hillary Clinton who then gave them to her lawyer, never to be seen by investigators. This event got some, but not much, media play. It was nothing compared to the wall to wall coverage of Cheney.

My point is this:
One of things happened:

The media didn’t want to cover a Clinton scandal, but now that they have a non-scandal involving Cheney, they want to try to blow it out of proportion to exert political control.

In 12 years, the media has completely changed how it operates, seeing administrative events as warranting very deep, almost conspiratorial scrutiny, where as in 1994 the idea that a conspiracy or cover-up could take place never even entered reporter’s minds.

The major media moguls are pissed that a tiny little ho-dunk newspaper got the scoop on the White House Press Corp conglomerate on something involving the White House in some fashion, and wants to let the White House and anyone else watching just what happens to you when you scorn them.

Given the questioning of the White House, the anger, and the actual reported, unsubstantiated and improvable theory that Cheney was drunk, I lean towards the third option. The poor little media giants are pissed that they got scooped, and they’re going to make Cheney and, as a result, Bush pay as best they can. There is media bias, but I believe in this case there is media vengance.

Ok, Fitzwater is a midget. (Note: Brush in the Midwest is Brush. Not a few tumblebushes and Crabgrass. Of course, I don't live in "Texas". Hence my assumption is wrong.)

I really Don't see a Big Conspiracy. Except Somebody needs new glasses, And a Hunter safety course.

Of course, If the Guy dies. Then I bet the Left will make a new holiday named after Fitzwater. Named Fitz'Bait or something like that.

Drudge is reporting the following:

NYT: CHENEY FACES GRAND JURY INVESTIGATION IF MAN DIES... In Texas, Carlos Valdez, the district attorney in Kleberg County, said a fatality would immediately spur a new report from the local sheriff and, most likely, a grand jury investigation... MORE...

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
There is a man in intensive care right now as a result of being shot under these circumstances. Have some heart!

[edit on 14-2-2006 by Icarus Rising]

Have some heart? I have plenty of heart.. He wouldnt be in intensive care right now as a result of being shot had Cheney's sorry old A$$ not shot him, Perhaps Dick should get some thicker coke bottles and not have a hobby that includes firearms.. He should do something like.. Sit in a chair and talk about how rough he had it when he was a kid like old shakey grumpy men do!

bottom line:

"While hunting accidents do happen, this one may have been avoidable - if Mr. Cheney and his companions had been less trigger-happy and more prudent. "

--Paul Begala

There were three of them hunting, Cheney, Whittington and Willeford. (Sounds like a law firm.) The Armstrongs (sisters) stayed in the car.

Road-hunting... blah. Guess these oldtimers don't go out for the exercise or nature experience.

That is just about the lowest kind of low-rent, dishonorable kind of hunting there is (the phrase "road hunting" is often used synonymously with "poaching").

We never would have hunted from a vehicle and it was an insult to even suggest that someone might. It was considered dangerous and declasse, as it was too great an advantage for the hunter to be "fair".

It most states, including Texas, it is also illegal: "It is unlawful to hunt from or by means of motor-driven vehicles and land conveyances or aircraft of any kind except paraplegics and single or double amputees of legs may hunt from stationary motor-driven vehicles or land conveyances."

However, Texas exempts private property owners from the prohibition when they are on their own land and Cheney was with the property owner on his ranch. But it is still really tacky.

Yes, really tacky.... tacky, not stupid. I can see how some hours were consumed getting Mr. Whittington medical attention, hospital personnel like to get patients stabilized before a doctor even gets to see them. Getting back to the ranch and realizing the implications of what had happened, reality set in and they must have realized they had to control the situation, so they gave the press something to focus on, blame the victim, tell lies, the usual manipulation. They knew it was bad, but how do they control the media to keep the real story secret?

I'd say the three mentioned above had an agenda for the day and I'd love to hear what it was. This is the juiciest political news in months and I know this cover-up was engineered for that purpose. But what could it have been?

Delay's case in Austin? The money laundering and where it's stashed? CIA prison flights over Switzerland? Jr's latest way to screw US college students, run the US Universities into the ground? Willeford ran Texas' Higher Education Coordinating Board before he sent her to Switzerland as US Ambassador.

Then there's the prison angle:

Harry served on both the Texas Board of Corrections and on the bonding authority that builds prisons. As he has often said, prisons do not curb crime, they are hothouses for crime: "Prisons are to crime what greenhouses are to plants."

Whittington was the chairman of Texas Public Finance Authority, he had a devastating set of numbers on the demand for more, more, more prison beds. As Whittington was wont to point out, the only thing prisons are good for is segregating violent people from the rest of society, and most of them belong in psychiatric hospitals to begin with. The severity of sentences has no effect on crime.

Molly likes him, decent guy

Knows alot about prisons, the Swiss are wanting answers about CIA prisons, hmmm...

This is being reported now... "The 78-year-old man shot by the vice-president, Dick Cheney, during a hunting trip to Texas suffered a heart attack after a pellet moved into his heart yesterday, igniting fresh criticism of White House secrecy about the event." From The Guardian.

How a person gets shot in their heart from a 28 gauge shotgun and 8 or 9 shot from thirty yards away BEHIND Cheney... Deja Vu! 'cept it's more magic birdshot rather than bullet...

[edit on 2/14/2006 by thepuncher]The Guardian

[edit on 2/14/2006 by thepuncher]

www.drudgereport.com...
NYT: CHENEY FACES GRAND JURY INVESTIGATION IF MAN DIES... In Texas, Carlos Valdez, the district attorney in Kleberg County, said a fatality would immediately spur a new report from the local sheriff and, most likely, a grand jury investigation... MORE...

There is no driect link as this is breaking news, sorry...

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Ox, I'm sorry, but get a clue! Why don't you stand up there and get shot at 30 yards with a 28 gauge shooting a 7.5 load, much less a 12 gauge, and tell us how irritated you are. You are talking out your butt. A modified choke commonly used while quail hunting to hold the pattern together at that range would not only penetrate, but it would gravely injure you. There is a man in intensive care right now as a result of being shot under these circumstances. Have some heart!

edit to add

Maybe you are saying the shot was much closer than 30 yards, as you state disbelief of the official story. If so, please ignore the above. I do stand by my statement that even at 30 yards the impact of the shot would be quite significant.

[edit on 14-2-2006 by Icarus Rising]

Ox has more than a little point... As Alex Jones says, if he was such an accomplished hunter, he would never have shot behind himself. I mean COME on... No impulse control... And he has a football.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The only reason this is news is because it is negative and it involves the Bush administration. It was a hunting accident. The victim is okay. It's funny that anything political that's anti-Bush is voted up in a heartbeat, but anything political that's in any way positive about the Bush administration gets shipped off to PTS ASAP.

For you Cheney haters, here's a great shot for you"

[edit on 2006/2/12 by GradyPhilpott]

No disrespect to you Grady, but anything that Bush or Cheney does is news be it negitive or positive. The reporter's always report whenever Bush or Cheney goes in for a check-up with a doctor or if Cheney is having chest-pains ( like we really give a crap if the man has heart problems).

Anyone that knows anything about guns and hunting knows they should always make sure their prey is in a clear shot before shooting at it. When it's a hunting party they normally will wait until the downed bird is retreived (if the person that shot it goes after it) and that person is safely out of firing range before the shots start-up again. The first rule of thumb I was always told when I went hunting with my brothers was "ALWAYS BE SURE THAT YOU HAVE A CLEAN/CLEAR SHOT AT YOUR PREY BEFORE FIRING", anything less is irresponsiblity on the part of the shooter.

The report given by the woman rancher seemed too rehearsed, to me but why wouldn't it be they had plenty of time to get their stories straight. IMHO, I beleive the woman was told what to say.
By the way, tonight on the news it was reported that the man shoot took a turn for the worst, that a pellet was lodged inside his heart and was giving him some problems.

I'm just wondering just "how" innocent/accidental the shooting really was considering Cheney's ghost appearance for the reporter's,....

"The media didn’t want to cover a Clinton scandal" Jungle Jake

Uh, CNN covered Clinton getting head for over 200 days straight. Clinton got head, 200+days coverage, Cheney SHOOTS SOMEONE IN THE FACE and you republicans are all "That evil liberal media covering this non-event."

To put this back in context, I'm going to number the options in bold, and bold what I believe the case was. Apparently there was some misunderstanding.

Originally posted by junglejake
1The media didn’t want to cover a Clinton scandal, but now that they have a non-scandal involving Cheney, they want to try to blow it out of proportion to exert political control.

2In 12 years, the media has completely changed how it operates, seeing administrative events as warranting very deep, almost conspiratorial scrutiny, where as in 1994 the idea that a conspiracy or cover-up could take place never even entered reporter’s minds.

3The major media moguls are pissed that a tiny little ho-dunk newspaper got the scoop on the White House Press Corp conglomerate on something involving the White House in some fashion, and wants to let the White House and anyone else watching just what happens to you when you scorn them.

Given the questioning of the White House, the anger, and the actual reported, unsubstantiated and improvable theory that Cheney was drunk, I lean towards the third option. The poor little media giants are pissed that they got scooped, and they’re going to make Cheney and, as a result, Bush pay as best they can. There is media bias, but I believe in this case there is media vengance.

So, DevinS, while I did present that as an option, I also showed in my summary that I did not believe this to be the case. Hope this helps you understand my point a little more clearly