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NEWS: Dick Cheney Accidentally Shoots Hunting Partner

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posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
only that he had moved to a position where he was not expected to be.


What position was that Grady? To the left, right or behind? How do you reconcile that Cheney says in the Hume interview that the "...bird flushed and went to my right, off to the west," and in the police report he tells the officer, "...there was a single bird that flew behind him and he followed the bird by line of sight in a counter clockwise direction..."

How does that make sense?


I'd like to hear a rational explanation, please.



[edit on 16-2-2006 by loam]




posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by seattlelaw
I've been unable to find anything hard on the mistress angle. It's speculation derived largely from the fact of two men drinking and hunting with two women on a private 50,000 acre ranch in the boonies.

Anyway, what woman would willingly ...?


You can see where I'm coming from here. As a member that's registered as seattlelaw something more than speculation is needed.


Oh really? Needed by whom?

If I was in a courtroom I'd be billing someone. It's $225/hr if you need my services in Oregon or Washington. Strictly civil. Mostly employment issues such as wrongful discharge, retaliation, discrimination, etc., but also failed biz transactions and other civil matters including class actions arising from consumer protection violations.

Gee intrepid, you are awfully busy today.

This site is 99% speculation in the form of conclusions. Now it may be true that the conclusions are often founded on some sort of information (I wouldn't call it evidence) however it is, nonetheless, still ultimately speculation. If it were more than speculation this would be a news site.

What really makes the site interesting is the people who frame their argument/speculation in a fresh, ingenious or otherwise interesting way, not the cops who police it.




posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 07:27 PM
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I don't care to explain that, loam. I made no claim to explain every element of the case. I can tell you this, however. When something like this happens, it is hard to get all the facts straight and it is not uncommon for people to contradict themselves.

I've lived through very many high adrenaline situations and nailing down sequences of events and minor details is very, very difficult. In fact, the perception of time is altered significantly during stressful situations, so all the posts on this subject are just hot air, so to speak.

www.firecomm.gov.mb.ca...

www.wildlandfire.com...

www.survivalskillsonline.com...


[edit on 2006/2/16 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 07:29 PM
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Originally posted by loam
What position was that Grady? To the left, right or behind? How do you reconcile that Cheney says in the Hume interview that the "...bird flushed and went to my right, off to the west," and in the police report he tells the officer, "...there was a single bird that flew behind him and he followed the bird by line of sight in a counter clockwise direction..."




He's busted! Guilty! Cheney was the second gunman! Cheney received the WMDs from Saddam personally! He shot Ronald Reagan! Cheney's behind the reptilian invasion! Cheney's tied to Osama Bin Laden! This proves it!

With the Bush administration selling our ports' security to Arab nations, I would think there might be something a little more relevant y'all could be discussing. I mean, a hunting accident where no one was killed? Where the victim recognizes it was an accident?

I would say it must be a slow news week, but it really hasn't. You (not you specifically, Loam) want to bash the Bush administration? Do it on something worthy of bashing. Or, you can go after D isney for not reporting this accident to the media within 24 hours. Maybe it's a Bush Disney cover-up? Maybe I'm cranky because I support Chuck Shumer completely in his efforts to prevent this port security sale? I dunno. This, to me, seems like a non-issue that should have died a long time ago, unlike anyone involved in the incident.



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 07:35 PM
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Pay special attention to this paper, loam. It might help to explain to you what the VP might have had to deal with in the minutes and hours following the incident.



www.alexisartwohl.com...

Artwohl (2002) in her survey of 157 officers involved in shootings, found that 52% of the officers could not remember some of the event and 46% could not remember some of their own behavior. Solomon (1986)) reported that 32% of the 44 officers whom he studied who were in on-duty shootings could not remember some parts of their experience. In addition to memory gaps, 21% of the officers in Artwohl's study experienced memory distortions in which they saw, heard, or experienced something during the event that they later found out had not really happened.

This lack of recall of one's own behavior can include inaccuracies in the recall of how many rounds were fired and even the failure to remember having fired one's weapon at all. Klinger (2001), in addition to his above reported cases where officers were unaware of firing their weapons, found that in 33% of the 113 shootings he studied, officers could not accurately recall the exact number of rounds they had fired. He found that the accuracy of officer's recall decreased as the number or rounds went up: from 81% accuracy when officer fired five or fewer rounds, down to 29% accuracy when they fired six to nine, and down all the way to 0% accuracy when they fired 13 or more. His research confirms the clinical experience of police psychologists who routinely observe during debriefings that officers frequently cannot accurately remember the number of rounds they fired during an officer involved shootings. Artwohl (2002) found that 84% of officers involved in 157 shootings experienced the perceptual distortion of diminished sound, meaning that they could not hear loud sounds such as gunshots that ordinarily would not be missed. The failure to hear the gunshots could contribute to the officers not realizing they had a weapons discharge or not knowing the exact number of rounds that were fired.

The distorted and/or missing memories that officers experience during critical incidents is not surprising given that the basic research on memory has confirmed that human memory is rarely perfect even under the best of circumstances. This includes eyewitness testimony in legal cases (Terry, 1997). Furthermore, as multiple researchers have pointed out, memory impairment is an in inherent part of critical incidents. The memory of a highly stressful event can often be fragmented, disorganized, out of order, or contain gaps where the person has no memory at all. DSM-IV (1994), the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual published by the American Psychiatric Association, points out that one of the features of post-traumatic stress disorder is the 'Inability to recall an important aspect of the trauma.'




[edit on 2006/2/16 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by seattlelaw
I've been unable to find anything hard on the mistress angle. It's speculation derived largely from the fact of two men drinking and hunting with two women on a private 50,000 acre ranch in the boonies.

Anyway, what woman would willingly ...?





I wonder if Armstrong's "sister" that was with the hunting party is this "mystery woman" that ya'll might be talking about?

This Armstrong woman that made the report to her local newspaper stated


Armstrong; her sister; Cheney; Whittington; and Pamela Pitzer Willeford, the U.S. ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, went out on the ranch to hunt quail.
, as you can see by Armstrong's own words, there were three women on the hunt, NOT two, and the 3rd woman was Armstrong's (cough,cough) hmmmm "Sister" (cough)
!!

quote:

www.washingtonpost.com...


Armstrong contacted the Corpus Christi Caller-Times around 9 a.m. Central time on Sunday. Asked why the information was not disseminated on Saturday night, immediately after the accident, Armstrong said: "The last thing that was on our mind was the media. We were thinking about Harry."

Armstrong; her sister; Cheney; Whittington; and Pamela Pitzer Willeford, the U.S. ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, went out on the ranch to hunt quail.



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 07:55 PM
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You know the story has change again, first the Mystery third party was Pamela.

Now more people are coming out showing that is was more than three people around when Cheney shot his friend.

I wonder if somebody was trying to keep the third lady's name from coming out in the open.

Hum. . . kind of fishy.


[edit on 16-2-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 08:05 PM
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Grady, that does not account for him having TWO stories about a material fact: what he was doing seconds before he pulled the trigger.

Your article identifies people who either could not remember events or distorted them.... Cheney doesn't say he doesn't remember the event...and he does more than just distort...he provides two versions.




[edit on 16-2-2006 by loam]



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott


In these situations, it is incumbent upon everyone in a party to keep others informed of their whereabouts, not for the purpose of assigning blame, but for the purpose of staying alive.



I would say it is "incumbent upon everyone in a hunting party" to STAY PUT and wait for their member to return from retrieving his/her bird BEFORE moving foward or whatever direction they move in so that NO ONE GETS SHOT
, that makes more sence to me than the "quote" above does
.



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 08:11 PM
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o.p. by u no who
Not once has anyone said that the victim was solely at fault, only that he had moved to a position where he was not expected to be


You still don't get it, do you, mouthpiece? The victim isn't at fault at all in this case. Not even VPDC is trying to say it. I don't care where he was supposed to be.

Maybe in the 'Nam, when you were spraying and praying into the jungle, it was ok if you happened to hit one of your own guys once in a while. If it wasn't fatal, or permanently disabling, they probably would thank you for the ticket out of Hell.

Here, its different, don't you see? This was a quail hunt, not a firefight or an officer involved shooting. Yes, I expect VPDC to be able to remember if he turned to his right, or counter-clockwise under these circumstances. Just like I expect you to continue to make excuses for everything that goes wrong involving your beloved administration. You are the only one being purposely obtuse here, grunt.

Now, if you will excuse me, I have to go make a statue of a regular. I think I'll name this one Grady.


[edit on 16-2-2006 by Icarus Rising]



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by Icarus Rising
You still don't get it, do you, mouthpiece?

Maybe in the 'Nam, when you were spraying and praying into the jungle, it was ok if you happened to hit one of your own guys once in a while. If it wasn't fatal, or permanently disabling, they probably would thank you for the ticket out of Hell.

You are the only one being purposely obtuse here, grunt.

Now, if you will excuse me, I have to go make a statue of a regular. I think I'll name this one Grady.



You are offending me, Icarus. You know nothing of the events in Texas, except as you have read or heard and you know absolutely nothing about me or my service in Vietnam, except as I have related here. You may remain as dense as you choose, but you should refrain from calling me names and refering to my service to my country in a disrespectful manner.



[edit on 2006/2/16 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 08:47 PM
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OOOf, are you saying that there's a questionable woman who might be doing favors for the VP???

I just came in and now i am perplexed. Hello?!



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 08:50 PM
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Icarus Rising, personal attacks are not allowed on ATS. I would suggest you stop before a mod stumbles along.

EDIT: Oh, and Grady, thanks for your service, and thanks for not giving yourself a bad name by lowering yourself to Icarus Rising's level.

[edit on 2/16/06/16 by junglejake]



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 08:55 PM
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That should not be too difficult for anyone who can type to understand.


I find this offensive, and that is how it starts. Gee, I'm sorry you don't like what I said. Why don't you knock it off with your veiled insults then?

Junglejake, the acolyte, why don't you mind your own business?

[edit on 16-2-2006 by Icarus Rising]



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 09:14 PM
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I'd like to remind everyone to discuss the topic of this thread and not each other.
We need to show respect for each other when posting.

This is a conspiracy forum and not everyone will post material that agrees with what you believe or know to be fact.
If you believe the poster's theory is incorrrect or not believable, there is a proper, respectful way to relay that message. Or, you can choose not to post a response at all.

This is especially true in ATSNN.



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
OOOf, are you saying that there's a questionable woman who might be doing favors for the VP???

I just came in and now i am perplexed. Hello?!




That's the jest that I'm picking up on too and the ONLY other woman that was said to be there other than the two that everyone thought was the only women there with the men is this " un-named sister" of the Armstrong woman, as she quoted to the newspaper in her town, unless there were more women out there than the three I found out about in the "news article" in the url I gave



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 09:37 PM
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The Police Report indicates the following people were there:




Dick Cheney
Bo Hubert (hunting guide)
Pam Willeford
Jerry Medellin
Katherine Armstrong
Sarita Armstrong Hixon
Harry Whittington
Oscar Medellin

Source.



[edit on 16-2-2006 by loam]



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
An accident this serious could have happened playing softball or touch football. It happens all the time.


It doesn't happen all the time and especially to vice presidents. Statistically, the number of people injured or killed in hunting-related shooting incidents is about the same chances as getting killed by a lightning strike.

4th commandment of firearm safety: Anytime you shoot someone, it's always your fault!
No one forced Dick to pull that trigger at Harry's face.


Look at what's happened so far. Someone in the administration acted negligently and illegally. Then, those investigating find roadblocks placed in their way. Further, it appeared as though the White House was more concerned about keeping the story from getting out than answering questions. All the while, partisan allies blamed the victim. Sound familiar? It should, because it has been at the core of every Bush-era debacle. source


The issue is not dead and it's a reoccuring pattern of behavoir that will repeat, especially considering the load of whitewash spewed out by those who try to shift blame, condone and make excuses for abhorent, violent, reckless actions by leaders.



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 10:07 PM
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One interesting tidbit I have heard from a Law enfrocement officer (from california tho not Texas) is that in any case dealing with an gun injury, especailly while hunting one of the first things they do is seperate the witnesses and prevent them from coming up with a false story to protect someone.

The simple fact that it wasn't until the next morning when the Shreriff was invovled raises the doubts that something like Cheany being under the influance or doing something even worse COULD have happened. We may never know the true story, and I bet Cheany and everyone in the white house is making extra sure to say prayers so that the victum doesn't die as a result of these injuries. he allready has been in ICU twice and has had a very minor heart attack, I don't know what else the 78 year old body can hadle but even I ceratinly hope he pulls through and recovers.

This whole event shows how secret this administration and how they string things out and delay any events that might harm their popularity, policatal base or finances



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by Jehosephat
This whole event shows how secret this administration and how they string things out and delay any events that might harm their popularity, policatal base or finances


Yeah. You can tell just by this thread that this situation has enormously enhanced Dick Cheney's popularity. The whole thing has been a genuine public relations slam dunk.




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