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NEWS: Dick Cheney Accidentally Shoots Hunting Partner

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posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by Roper
At "10 feet" there would be no Mr. Whittington. 90 feet is very plausible.


Your ideas of 28 gauge ballistics shows you have no idea what your talking about.


If Harry is a medium built male his chest size is around 36-38" in circumference.
www.thesmokinggun.com...



28g No7.5 (plastic wad) fired at 25yds
Outer ring is a 30 inch diamater
www.shotgun-insight.com...

Keep in mind those targets are paper and easy for a shot to penetrate.

More patterns: www.chambermates.com...


CSI Corpus Christi: How Many Crimes Did Cheney Commit on Saturday?


Gen. J.C. Christian writes, "Our Deputy Leader was using 28 gauge shotgun shells loaded with 3/4 oz of #7-1/2 shot. That particular load carries approximately 262 BBs. The doctor caring for the wounded man said that he removed about 200 BBs. That means about 4/5ths of the shot in the load struck the man in an area no larger than about 18 inches in diameter."



Old rule of thumb: shot patterns expand radially one inch per yard downrange.
i.e. 30 yards = 30 inches radius = 60 inches diameter.

The pattern noted on the police report to Harry's head, neck and body is 12-18 inches. Penetration was severe enough for a pellet to embed into Harry's heart, and reports of 100-200 pellets removed says he was no where near 90 feet.


Account of Doctors Raises Questions on Heart Injury

Dr. O. Wayne Isom, the chairman of heart and chest surgery at Weill Cornell Medical College, said it was unlikely that a pellet would migrate to the heart through the bloodstream, as some have assumed from the account of the Texas doctors.

The reason, Dr. Isom said, is that the pellet would have to enter a vein, travel to and through the lung vessels that go to the heart, and then lodge in heart tissue, not in one of its chambers. The pellets were approximately five millimeters, about the size of a BB, and larger than most blood vessels, said Dr. David Blanchard, director of emergency services at the hospital.

A more likely explanation, Dr. Isom said, is that the pellet lodged in or touched the heart when Mr. Whittington was shot.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


6-9 yards would give a spread of 12-18 inches, so Harry was 12-18 feet away. Plus or minus a few feet in regards to choke settings and or a hot load.

So much lieing in this story, it's hard to take anything factual from the witness who was 100 yards away in a car or Cheney.


Update II: Shooting Holes In Cheney's Story

[F]rom the inside of a car, 100 yards from the scene, Armstrong neither saw nor heard Whittington announce his approach, he was "more bruised than bloody," and he was "bleeding profusely," he was "fine," and he didn't know, "if he was going to the hospital or the mortuary," there was "no drinking" and there was, "beer available," Cheney "urged" her tell her story on Saturday, and it was her family's "idea" on Sunday, except when it was her idea on Sunday.

As clear as mud, isn't it?


Rove Pushed Cheney to Talk -CBS News

[edit on 16-2-2006 by Regenmacher]




posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by Regenmacher
www.shotgun-insight.com...

Rule of thumb: shot patterns expand radially one inch per yard downrange.
i.e. 30 yards = 30 inches radius = 60 inches diameter.


I don't see this Rule of Thumb on the site you linked. But if it is true, "expanding radially" doesn't have anything to do with the radius of a pattern, does it? Doesn't that just mean it expands outward? If so, then an 18" pattern would indicate an 18 yard distance.

I'm not arguing with you, just trying to clarify.


Edit: Never mind. I think you're probably right. Expanding out from the center point in the line of the radius. Many times "radially" just means to radiate, but in the case of a center point and moving outwards, I think you're probably right.

[edit on 16-2-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'm not arguing with you, just trying to clarify.


[edit on 16-2-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]


One inch radial spread per yard is common knowledge for hunters.

Radius is not the diameter and spread is from the center out. 18" diameter spread is at a range of 9 yards.

Those targets on the page have a 30 inch diameter outer ring at a range 25 yards. Notice that the shot falls outside the ring and these are special loads too.

More here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
_________________________

Harry was 78 years old.


Cheney's Negligence -- Is it a felony?
Texas Penal Code Title 5, Chapter 22.04(a)(3) makes it an offense for someone to injure an elderly person (over age 65) by an act of recklessness or criminal negligence. Subsection (f) or (g) would make it a "state jail felony."


Armstrong, Texas has a population of 414 people, and the Mrs. Armstrong owns 50,000 acres. How aggressive do you think the local law enforcement is towards political bigwigs? I'll give ya a clue.








[edit on 16-2-2006 by Regenmacher]



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 09:38 AM
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jsobecky,

You're not annoying me, you are just making a bigger fool out of yourself.


What my brother and I did was a piss poor way to shoot at and injure each other, and a good example of fire control under exciting and chaotic conditions common to quail hunts.

I didn't tell you to stay off the thread, I suggested you might want to.

Maybe you should have taken my advice.


Have a nice day, and peace to you.


Ox

posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 10:46 AM
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Just a few things.. IcarusRising, no apology is necessary at all, if there's one thing I know it's my weapons, being a private bodyguard and in the law enforcement industry for the past ten years I try to know what I'm talking about.. so don't worry. as I said before though.. I'd stand at 90 feet away and let someone take a shot at me with a 28 gauge shotgun with bird shot.. with only eye goggles for protection.. I usually don't say something unless I know I'm right in the first place, save me looking like a fool.

JsoBecky, I don't think you should call someone a piss poor hunter because they turned toward each other... most if not all experienced people know to keep you trigger finger on the trigger guard so NOT to accidently shoot/kill someone.. that's what trigger guards are for..

I have a question now.. Where was Cheney's SS detail assigned to him? why weren't they in the immediate vicinity??



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 10:51 AM
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( i admit, i haven't read every post in the 11 pages of material...)

ran across this item, just this morning,

RJ Eskow: Cheney's Chappaquiddick II: The Real Story Emerges

source
posted at raiders news update. com site

just not sure if the developing Official story, trashes the content of this account that has booze & women in the 'hunting party'...
(i was wondering how long it would take for someone to bring up the Delay in reporting an 'accident', like the Sen. Kennedy delay in reporting the 'accident' at chappaquiddick so many years ago)



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 11:06 AM
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o.p. by Ox
I'd stand at 90 feet away and let someone take a shot at me with a 28 gauge shotgun with bird shot


I wouldn't, but hey, that's just me. If you do decide to try it though, you might want to also wear a 'cup' (like baseball players do) to protect the 'family jewels', if you know what I mean.


Thanks for being so cool about my misunderstanding your original post. With your background in law enforcement and security, I'm sure you do know what you are talking about when it comes to weapons and their capabilities.

I'm working on making a fool out of myself less often.


Ox

posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 11:18 AM
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Icarus, its not a problem, it was frustrating at first but no big deal. As for wearing a cup... hmm nah, I'm game. I'm currently trying to get my hands on some ballistics gel so I'm able to recreate the event in question and post my findings.
Can anyone answer my question about the Secret Service and where they were or should have been?



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by Ox
Can anyone answer my question about the Secret Service and where they were or should have been?


Under the circumstances, personal/private trip, they were most likely in "along for the ride" mode. Not your typical "protect the VP" against ??? situation/environment. A 50,000 acre ranch, amongst friends, afternoon BBQ. Most likely a relaxed environment for all involved, attending or assigned.

Until ...


Ox

posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 11:51 AM
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I'd still imagine they'd be within the general vicinity of Cheney.. I have a feeling there is still more to this story than what has been reported yet.
Another question I have is. If this goes further and Cheney is impeached and eventually charged.. is there something preventing Bush from pardoning him at all?



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by Ox
If this goes further and Cheney is impeached and eventually charged.. is there something preventing Bush from pardoning him at all?



...shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment. wiki


I doubt it goes further, this is good old boys country.

Secret Service was probably busy releasing quail from the cages.



More ballistics data here showing 30 yards is crapola:
Cover-up in progress and Shotgun ballistics don’t match-up!

At this rate, Cheney's story will have more holes in it than Harry has.



[edit on 16-2-2006 by Regenmacher]


Ox

posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 12:28 PM
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Ha! good.. I hope this goes all the way.. the county sheriff seems none to happy by all this.. I hope in time that there is a full blown investigation that reveals that lies may have been told.



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 12:33 PM
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Based on Cheney's interview, does anyone know how Whittington got WEST of Cheney?

My analysis.


Ox

posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 12:48 PM
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The latest from the White House read by a local radio news caster is that and I quote "President Bush is happy with the more than adequate explaination and apology that Dick Cheney gave publicly".. Of course he is.. what a shock that was.. ugh.. I'm so sick of this administration I'm ready to move to Canada



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 12:52 PM
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posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 02:34 PM
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CASE CLOSED.

SARITA, Texas (AP) - The sheriff's department closed its investigation Thursday into Dick Cheney's accidental shooting of a hunting partner and said no charges will be filed.

The Kenedy County Sheriff's Department issued a report that largely supports the vice president's account of the weekend accident that wounded 78-year-old lawyer Harry Whittington.

Whittington, interviewed in the hospital, assured investigators no one was drinking when the accident occurred and everyone was wearing bright orange safety gear, according to the report.

Sheriff's dispatcher Diana Mata, speaking for the department, said the case is closed and no charges will be filed. She said Sheriff Ramon Salinas would have no comment on the report.



Of course it is.... What an outrage!



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 02:45 PM
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when is VP Cheney going hunting with GW Bush?



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by phixion
when is VP Cheney going hunting with GW Bush?


I believe that Bush knows Cheney burst of anger very well and I bet when Cheney is in doing business deal and they don't go his way he may very well become a mad man.

No Bush will pass the nice Hunting festivities


Ox

posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 03:29 PM
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I was about to post the yahoo news story myself.. What a farce.. Looks like a certain Sheriff got a nice fat envelope in the mail today... This is just more of the corruption that this administration spews.. And of course the victim is going to go along with the story.. if someone had just shot me I'd say whatever they want...

Ugh.. Land of the freeeeeee... Hoooome of the most corrupt government in the wooooorrrld.. Just doesnt have the same ring to it.



posted on Feb, 16 2006 @ 03:34 PM
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This issue is dead. The victim will not file charges nor will anyone else who saw the incident. Cheney did not shoot his friend purposely and regardless of the endless speculation about ballistics, it was a very unfortunate accident for which both parties bear some responsibility. Cheney was the shooter so, naturally, he is the most accountable, but still, this is as far as this matter will go, regardless of what the administration haters might say. The Vice President is only human and he must be feeling pretty low about now, so how about a little empathy from the preachers of tolerance and empathy for a change. An accident this serious could have happened playing softball or touch football. It happens all the time.



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