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Freemasonry and the Roman Spirit

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posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 11:23 PM
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I have read few articles that truly matches my own point of understanding! If you wish to dispute this author's findings, I’d like to hear why? If you want to know what is truly happening in the world today, just read this basic summary.

I was surprised to learn that King James I (the man of the Protestants) was an advanced Templar-Mason and a "Solomon" of our time! I was also surprised to learn that indeed, America can rightly be named the "United States of Freemasonry". However, having to accept my own error, I'd love to see how many Modern-day Masons and Christians will ignore the evidence coming from possibly one of the most advanced souls of the past 200 years.....that of Rudolf Steiner's deep esoteric understandings. I find it not surprising that the decadence of Freemasonry has become exactly like the Jesuits, degeneration into exactly what was always so-hated and rightfully so. I was pleased to be reminded however, that Albert Pike was indeed not a very nice man at all, btw...

Enjoy!

www.monju.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk...


[edit on 11-2-2006 by markusjharper]

Edit: I recommend that you don't re-edit a staff members edit again.

[edit on 12-2-2006 by intrepid]




posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 12:40 AM
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Oh boy. Here we go again.

Strange thing is, my child is educated through the Rudolf Steiner system and my Dad was a Mason. Go figure! The school were pleased to hear of our Masonry history and have been very positive about it.

Some theories just get banged against a brick wall with no resolution.
In my opinion, ignorance is truly alive and well, obviously.



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 01:19 AM
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Intrepid,

Please don't take this the wrong way, as I'm not trying to bash your ego here...but

I re-edited MY POST because I realized that after you edited it, I should have not have used the [ex, /ex] option. However, you decided to leave the [ex, /ex] around only a portion of the entire acticle and I thought that some people coming here, might assume that portion was in fact the entire article and thus miss out on the rest. I re-edited to ensure that no opportunity was lost.



[edit on 12-2-2006 by markusjharper]



posted on Feb, 12 2006 @ 01:21 AM
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Oh boy. Here we go again.

Strange thing is, my child is educated through the Rudolf Steiner system and my Dad was a Mason. Go figure! The school were pleased to hear of our Masonry history and have been very positive about it.

Some theories just get banged against a brick wall with no resolution.
In my opinion, ignorance is truly alive and well, obviously.



sanse_nz,

Without writing too “sarcastic” and since I would like other people to be able to read this article and decide for themselves what is "ignorance" or not, I decline to care what exactly your point is regarding the connection between Freemasonry and a Waldorf school’s acceptance and thus how it specifically relates to the subject material, per se. I doubt you read it anyhow, so “whatever” I suppose!



posted on Feb, 13 2006 @ 07:37 AM
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Originally posted by markusjharper
I was pleased to be reminded however, that Albert Pike was indeed not a very nice man at all, btw...


Why was this unwarranted attack on Pike included? It should be pointed out that no one who actually knew Pike thought of him in any other way than as a perfect southern gentleman, and he was universally respected for these qualities even by his Yankee enemies.

Out of all the writings people have made concerning Pike, I'm not aware of even one who claimed that he "wasn't nice". On the contrary, they point to a man who was an archetype of good manners and sophistication.



posted on Feb, 13 2006 @ 03:25 PM
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No, yet a warranted attack on a man who was fighting with the Aristocratic south against the more democratic and Freemasonic north and was wanted by authorities for the involvement in the murder of Abraham Lincoln. Was he hiding in Canada because he loved seeing black folks living off of Plantations? Do we all forget that slavery was very much accepted by both Masons and Christians at one time and that when the north won the civil war, there were still forces that continued to work in secret with the Aristocratic South to further an agenda? Also, to complicate matters, the war itself was believed to have been funded on both sides, but not by Jesuits, but by other Supra-Masonic sinister forces.

Albert Pike may have acted as a gentleman but he was also meeting with a President who was pushing a very selfish agenda and thus wanted to bring forth the New World Order – The New Atlantis. It is these selfish motives within Freemasonry itself that spawned the freedom which we all cherish and are now losing but also that SAME freedom which spawned groups like the Rhodes-Milner, Wm. T. Stead. Later, after the First World War, the lodges were becoming suspect and retreated into the shadows, so-to-speak. From that time forward, the majority of the conspiratorial work is done outside of the general lodges and carried forward within those future Elitest organizations I just mentioned. Even though I accept that the anti-Masonic party was primarily a Jesuit invention, I also can accept that to this very day, Jesuits rule Western Europe and the Masons (through the Cecil-Rhodes like foundations and think-tanks) rule the east and (to keep Germany and Russia separated) that if I can accept that both sides are to blame, then why do so many Masons try and defend Albert Pike, as being a fine southern gentleman? The reason is not so much to defend one man but rather an attempt to imply that Masonry has no responsibility in the negative events unfolding today, which I find irresponsible and child-like.

You see, I have read Pike's book and I too agree with many of his thoughts and anti-Jesuit philosophy. But he also displayed motives which prove he was not working for the betterment for all man, yet working to push forward a more selfish “freedom” agenda. You have the right to disagree ML, but I’ll tell you that not only did Rudolf Steiner mention Pike’s role in a conspiratorial level but much modern evidence points to his being a southern racist.


[edit on 13-2-2006 by markusjharper]



posted on Feb, 13 2006 @ 10:25 PM
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That article has the scholastic integrity of a used car ad. The axe-grinding is truly deafening.

Check out the "citation" for the Albert Pike / Lincoln assassination theory (2).



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 01:08 AM
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A wonderful example of a twilight-attack: It must be a huge Conspiracy against Pike and ironically this article is not ONLY about Pike, yet sets the stage of a general trend, a trend which many seem to ignore entirely.

en.wikipedia.org...


After the war
Pike faced the postwar years unable to earn the trust either of his former comrades or of the Union victors, and subsequently relocated to New York and later to Canada. He was however at length given a formal pardon by Andrew Johnson on August 30, 1865, and therefore enabled to continue his career in public life, becoming an associate justice of the Arkansas supreme court, later practicing law in Memphis, Tennessee from 1867-8 (where he also served as editor of the Memphis Appeal), and finally moving his law office to Washington, D.C. in 1870, becoming editor of the Patriot newspaper.


Johnson would not have been invited to supper by Jefferson (a good Mason), btw.

en.wikipedia.org...


....Johnson presided over the Reconstruction of the United States following the American Civil War, and his conciliatory policies towards the defeated rebels and his vetoes of civil rights bills embroiled him in a bitter dispute with the Congressional Republicans, leading the House of Representatives to impeach him in 1868; he was the first President to be impeached. He was subsequently acquitted by a single vote in the Senate.


I agree (after being incorrect in past) that the Morgan incident is not to be known for sure, and that Robison and Barrel were indeed anti-mason Jesuits (the Masonic websites fail to mention "Jesuit") yet, regarding Pike and Johnson - another unknown conspiracy I suppose, rite?


[edit on 14-2-2006 by markusjharper]



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by markusjharper
No, yet a warranted attack on a man who was fighting with the Aristocratic south against the more democratic and Freemasonic north and was wanted by authorities for the involvement in the murder of Abraham Lincoln.


To begin with, Pike was not "wanted by authorities for involvement" in the Lincoln assasination. This is 100% untrue.

Secondly, the north was neither "more democratic" nor "more Masonic". Pike explained his position quite eloquently in his "Letters To The Northern States". Here, Pike admits that slavery is an immoral practice, but he also charges the northern critics with hypocrisy because they used factory labor as practical slave labor during that time (portions of his writing on the exploitation of the northern working class would have made Marx himself envious!).


Was he hiding in Canada because he loved seeing black folks living off of Plantations?


Pike, like all Confederate officers, was originally charged with treason. Pike, like all Confederate officers, later was pardoned. Pike went to Canada because he was frustrated with the situation in the US, and one can hardly blame him.


Do we all forget that slavery was very much accepted by both Masons and Christians at one time and that when the north won the civil war, there were still forces that continued to work in secret with the Aristocratic South to further an agenda? Also, to complicate matters, the war itself was believed to have been funded on both sides, but not by Jesuits, but by other Supra-Masonic sinister forces.


It could also be believed that the war was funded by alines from the planet Karnak, but that wouldn't make it so. In reality, the war was funded by high taxes levied on the citizens of both sides.


Albert Pike may have acted as a gentleman but he was also meeting with a President who was pushing a very selfish agenda and thus wanted to bring forth the New World Order – The New Atlantis.


Huh?


Even though I accept that the anti-Masonic party was primarily a Jesuit invention,


Why would you think that? An objective study of the party's history usually results in a conclusion that it was an invention of political opportunists. Why would you think the Jesuits involved?


then why do so many Masons try and defend Albert Pike, as being a fine southern gentleman? The reason is not so much to defend one man but rather an attempt to imply that Masonry has no responsibility in the negative events unfolding today, which I find irresponsible and child-like.


No. I defend Pike because he was a good man to whom it is currently in vogue to slander on the Internet. I would defend Pike for this reason regardless if he had been a Mason.



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 09:35 AM
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you said one of the advanced souls of the last two hundred years? Advanced soul sounds like the very gnosticism that this article condemns.

Its probably true that the offsprings of the venetian oligarchy tricked/ manuevered King James into the 30 years war,but i cant help thinking this is all a ploy against the KJV bible for one of the new age translations...

Gnosticism seems more likely in the RCC and the angelican church IMHO.
anglicanjournal.com...
(note the pheonix rising out of the fire, and the 6 flower petal on bottom)

Though Rosicrucianism owns the Lutherans pretty good (ever see the symbol?)

www.churchsigns.com...

Note Bottom.
In fact, research indicates that all three documents probably were the creation of Lutheran theologian Johann Valentin Andreae (1586-1654). However, his authorship only is confirmed for the Chymical Wedding, which he subsequently described as a Ludibrium. The authors of the Rosicrucian works generally favoured Lutheranism as opposed to Catholicism.
en.wikipedia.org...




posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 11:25 AM
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I dont know what it is about king james, but yeah he wasnt some "holy" dude.
Now I havent heard the specific bit that you wrote about, cool to hear new (not so new for some) info.



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 01:45 PM
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To begin with, Pike was not "wanted by authorities for involvement" in the Lincoln assasination. This is 100% untrue.


Pike was directly involved in the assassination and that is why he was hiding in Canada. He lost respect from even his own peers and if every Confederate was guilty of the same charge as Pike, then they certainly were not hiding in Canada like cowards, now were they?


Secondly, the north was neither "more democratic" nor "more Masonic……”


The North was settled by the more Protestants folks on the May Flower. The Anti-Masonic party had a devastating effect on Freemasonry’s reputation in the north but not so much in the Aristocratic south. The separation between the Antients and Moderns is an example that with Freemasonry, there was a tendency of conflict.


Pike, like all Confederate officers, was originally charged with treason. Pike, like all Confederate officers, later was pardoned. Pike went to Canada because he was frustrated with the situation in the US, and one can hardly blame him.


Not all Confederate officers were charged with treason, yet Pike seemed to be the first to run and hide.


It could also be believed that the war was funded by alines from the planet Karnak, but that wouldn't make it so. In reality, the war was funded by high taxes levied on the citizens of both sides.


Now, Lord Rothschild helped fund the war of 1812 – that is a fact. The Civil war was funded on both sides. Money talks!


Why would you think that? An objective study of the party's history usually results in a conclusion that it was an invention of political opportunists. Why would you think the Jesuits involved?


I believe if you read ISIS UNVEIELED by Madame Blavatsky, she even alludes to the effect of Jesuitism on Masonry…but one source. Another source is from Rudolf Steiner and there are many more examples of how Jesuits have tried to play “good Christian” and attack Freemasonry, while supporting materialism of the worst kind. The Jesuits wrote a book that attacked Goethe; it was so brilliantly written, and so much so a piece of materialism that it shocked me to also learn that I too, was fooled by John Robison's book.


No. I defend Pike because he was a good man to whom it is currently in vogue to slander on the Internet. I would defend Pike for this reason regardless if he had been a Mason.


You defend him because you ignore the fact that he was arrogant and anti-Christian. You ignore that fact (like many) that Pike tried to lump Christianity together with Jesuitism and in his book Morals and Dogma, he writes out of egoism and not devotion to serving humanity. He drinks from the cup of spirituality, yet has little to offer. Careful reading of Pike's work reveals that his writing was not struggled upon, he did not painfully struggle within himself to fight materialism; yet like with President Wilson, his words sound fine for the unlearned reader but to the "learned" his thoughts went on paper as if the soul were possessed.

The order of the Quest has long strived for the New Atlantis and Pike was amongst them. This plan unfolds as we speak and it only takes one to look into the writings of the day, to see how clearly this plan was to be set in motion. Not all want a New Atlantis but certain selfish groups do, and so they direct humanity in this fashion. Since the coming of Christ, we need no Sheppard’s and we do not require to be led from the "Shamballa" of east or west, nor the hidden masters.


[edit on 14-2-2006 by markusjharper]



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 01:47 PM
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Nutroll,


you said one of the advanced souls of the last two hundred years? Advanced soul sounds like the very gnosticism that this article condemns.


This article condemns no-one and gnosticism was in fact, the true carrier of the earliest form of Christianity.



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by markusjharper

Pike was directly involved in the assassination and that is why he was hiding in Canada.


This is quite the earth-shattering charge. If true, historians would be up in arms as to be the first to demonstrate its authenticity. Of course, no such squabble is taking place. The charge that pike was involved in the Lincoln assasination is completely spurious and apocryphal, i.e., fictional.


He lost respect from even his own peers and if every Confederate was guilty of the same charge as Pike, then they certainly were not hiding in Canada like cowards, now were they?


I think you've got backwards. Pike's peers did not "lose respect for him". He lost respect for them. He resigned his post in the Confederate armed forces in disgust before the war ended. Secondly, Pike was not "hiding" in Canada, he simply moved there for a while (as he had family located there). If he had been trying to "hide" in Canada, he certainly wouldn't have stopped over in New York for several months while publicly practicing law.

From your previous accusation that he was involved in the Lincoln assasination, I realize that your knowledge of Pike is largely ungrounded in fact, but before you attempt to discourse about it, I would strongly suggest gaining some real historical knowledge of it first.


Secondly, the north was neither "more democratic" nor "more Masonic……”



The North was settled by the more Protestants folks on the May Flower. The Anti-Masonic party had a devastating effect on Freemasonry’s reputation in the north but not so much in the Aristocratic south. The separation between the Antients and Moderns is an example that with Freemasonry, there was a tendency of conflict.


The Mayflower has zip to do with the Anti-Masonic Party, nor did the previously separated Antient and Modern Grand Lodges, nor, from what I can see, any Jesuits.




Not all Confederate officers were charged with treason, yet Pike seemed to be the first to run and hide.


Again noted: Pike neither "ran" nor "hid".


It could also be believed that the war was funded by alines from the planet Karnak, but that wouldn't make it so. In reality, the war was funded by high taxes levied on the citizens of both sides.



Now, Lord Rothschild helped fund the war of 1812 – that is a fact.


Is it anything similar to the "fact" that Pike shot Lincoln, Kennedy, John Lennon, and Reagan?



I believe if you read ISIS UNVEIELED by Madame Blavatsky


I have indeed read it, even have a copy on my library shelf. That pretentious tome of sanctimonious nonsense and metaphysical fraud has wrecked many a soul seeking wisdom.


she even alludes to the effect of Jesuitism on Masonry


She alludes to lots of stuff, much of which are based on make-believe countries and species that never even existed. Why you would choose her as an historical source is bewildering, as I'm aware of no thoughtful human these days who would take anything she wrote particularly seriously.


Another source is from Rudolf Steiner and there are many more examples of how Jesuits have tried to play “good Christian” and attack Freemasonry, while supporting materialism of the worst kind. The Jesuits wrote a book that attacked Goethe; it was so brilliantly written, and so much so a piece of materialism that it shocked me to also learn that I too, was fooled by John Robison's book.


Yes, the Jesuits were anti-Masonic, but they were practically powerless in the United States. The real reason for the Anti-Masonic Party seems to have been Morgan's money-making scheme combined with the criminal actions of some Batavian Masons.



You defend him because you ignore the fact that he was arrogant and anti-Christian.


What do you mean by "arrogant"? Have you not yourself acted arrogantly in that you have falsely accused a dead man without evidence. What do you mean by "anti-Christian"? Have you not acted in anti-Christian manner by bearing false witness?


You ignore that fact (like many) that Pike tried to lump Christianity together with Jesuitism


And just how exactly did he do that?



and in his book Morals and Dogma, he writes out of egoism and not devotion to serving humanity.


And what is your rationale for this little ditty?


Careful reading of Pike's work reveals that his writing was not struggled upon, he did not painfully struggle within himself to fight materialism;


And who are you to sit in judgement upon the motives of another man? How do you know of Pike's personal struggles, or anyone else's, for that matter?



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 04:21 PM
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This is quite the earth-shattering charge. If true, historians would be up in arms as to be the first to demonstrate its authenticity. Of course, no such squabble is taking place. The charge that pike was involved in the Lincoln assasination is completely spurious and apocryphal, i.e., fictional.


You act as though historians accepted that Lincoln's assassination was a suicide. I suppose you believe in the magic bullet theory regarding JFK and that he was murdered by Oswald? I know that Pike was involved in the assassination of Lincoln and that your point is ridiculous; to imply that no-one tried to demonstrate its authenticity…thus the reason for why Pike was a wanted man in the first place, not to mention the brutal nature in which he went about “serving mankind” with his blessed trained Indians.


I think you've got backwards. Pike's peers did not "lose respect for him". He lost respect for them. He resigned his post in the Confederate armed forces in disgust before the war ended. Secondly, Pike was not "hiding" in Canada, he simply moved there for a while (as he had family located there). If he had been trying to "hide" in Canada, he certainly wouldn't have stopped over in New York for several months while publicly practicing law.


Are you trying to imply that en.wikipedia.org... has it backwards? It seems clear to me that it is YOU who are fishing and trying to imply that Pike was such a Saint as to lose his respect for his peers and thus leave and ONLY return after being redeemed and made a 32 Mason by a dirty President. Hmm, seems to make no sense for someone in non-hiding.


The Mayflower has zip to do with the Anti-Masonic Party, nor did the previously separated Antient and Modern Grand Lodges, nor, from what I can see, any Jesuits.


The difference between Thomas Jefferson and the Alexander Hamilton is but one example of a division between the democratic and more aristocratic and selfish. My point here is that the war in Europe was echoed in the USA Civil War; why you wish to make it into a mess of confusion, baffles me?


Again noted: Pike neither "ran" nor "hid".

A man of dignity and high moral stature does not run and wait for a President to clear him to be restored. He ran, and that means “ran away from something”. Please don’t be ridiculous!


Is it anything similar to the "fact" that Pike shot Lincoln, Kennedy, John Lennon, and Reagan?


Pure moot! You deny the fact that Rothschild (amongst others) threatened the tiny Republic and funded a war to bring her back into the crown? If so, you mock basic facts.


I have indeed read it; even have a copy on my library shelf. That pretentious tome of sanctimonious nonsense and metaphysical fraud has wrecked many a soul seeking wisdom.


I think you’re fibbing because if you had indeed read it, you would have noted that she was incredibly clairvoyant and as a WOMAN medium, she was part of a huge change taking place in the 1800’s that was both rare and powerful. Her first book ISIS Unveiled was not the problem, it was only after she tried to gain entrance into “certain” brotherhoods which only allowed men, and then Blavatsky, being the very tenacious woman that she was (yet kind) demanded entrance in the lodges and as a result she was later used (pushed back and forth) and in fact “silenced” by magic. She was revealing tool much and they silenced her after writing her first book! Do not make the mistake of confusing her later book, the Secret Doctrine” which was in fact, inspired by the Mahatmas who held Lucifer higher then Christ – an ancient understanding (which was necessary at that time), as the one I used for evidence. I used Blavatsky as a non-standard form of proof, as few people have tried to read her book and see what secrets are to be found. Jesuitism was always been opposed to Manichaeism and thus opposed to freemasonry! But nowadays they are all working together at the highest levels to bring forth the same goal. Would you know anything of that goal – and if not you shall be deeply misled by Ahriman.


She alludes to lots of stuff, much of which are based on make-believe countries and species that never even existed. Why you would choose her as an historical source is bewildering, as I'm aware of no thoughtful human these days who would take anything she wrote particularly seriously.


You are acting like a typical materialist, sir! You know nothing of Masonry and I bet you think that Atlantis never existed; ironically the essence of Masonry was the understanding of the new Atlantis and new found freedom. Btw, as a reflection of the unrest with the Catholic church, Blavatsky also made the mistake of at times; blending Christianity with Jesuitism. But ML, you throw out the baby with the bathwater.


Yes, the Jesuits were anti-Masonic, but they were practically powerless in the United States. The real reason for the Anti-Masonic Party seems to have been Morgan's money-making scheme combined with the criminal actions of some Batavian Masons.


Nonsense! The Jesuits were ONE with Rothschild and the Pope of Rome was basically in debt to Rothschild since the 1800’s and they to this VERY day want to kill the Reformers. They supported Communism 100% and support Israel (as many do, good or bad) and we know of the Jesuit rat-lines, during WW2. I am not bashing Catholics here but truth is the truth.


What do you mean by "arrogant"? Have you not yourself acted arrogantly in that you have falsely accused a dead man without evidence. What do you mean by "anti-Christian"? Have you not acted in anti-Christian manner by bearing false witness?


We are coming up to a time when you shall see what is anti-Christian! Just sit back and see for yourself ML. Pike rarely gives credit to Christ by calling him BUT a MAN! Jesus was a man but to leave out the Christ part and speak of spiritual knowledge is ONLY using Luciferic knowledge (which brought us great gifts and arts – I admit) but one who denies Christ, as most Freemasons today do, are not serving mankind – but serving materialism and preparing the way for Ahriman coming in flesh.



[edit on 14-2-2006 by markusjharper]



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 04:31 PM
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^
Ummmm....


'Nuff said?



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 06:32 PM
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Yeah, you know nothing of Masonry, ML!

The years of membership - worthless!

Your degree work and mentoring - worthless!

Your collection of Masonic literature - worthless!

When will you accept that Freemasonry is simply setting the stage for the Lemurian revival of a vast underground army of cryogenically-frozen Satanic dog mutants? Time to wake up and smell the Jesuits, dude.



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by Roark
Yeah, you know nothing of Masonry, ML!

The years of membership - worthless!

Your degree work and mentoring - worthless!

Your collection of Masonic literature - worthless!

When will you accept that Freemasonry is simply setting the stage for the Lemurian revival of a vast underground army of cryogenically-frozen Satanic dog mutants? Time to wake up and smell the Jesuits, dude.


^
ROTFL
dog mutants....




posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 07:36 PM
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Roark,

A teacher teaching in school does not mean they are good teachers and the same applies for almost everything. Besides, labels mean little to me without real evidence of spiritual knowledge and a Mason that does not know his own roots, is thus no better than the Christian, or Jew, who has no spiritual belief. Modern Masons claim that Masonry is but a lodge and not a religion, yet as I have already said before, King James himself who compiled the KJ Bible, with help from Francis Bacon, was a Templar-Mason!

You seem to laugh at your own stupidity...be careful.



posted on Feb, 14 2006 @ 08:13 PM
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The fact that King James was a Mason has absolutely no bearing on whether Freemasonry is or is not a religion.

Does the fact that Ernest Borgnine was a Freemason make it some kind of actor's guild? No.

Your methodology for determining facts and drawing links is inherently flawed.




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