Bush and Clinton. The Two Headed Coin.

I have to say I love this thread a lot. It shows the two sides of politics in the light of day.

We have Clinton whose considered a Liberal. The lackadaisical hippy who skipped out on going to war, who didn't inhale...um if you buy that story...I've got Two Towers in New york to sell you, only you can't see them, they're invisible...who got away with the vast majority of no-no's while in office.

Next, we have Bush...well let's just say, I'm not allowed to further say anything against the man until he's out of office...or I might be labeled an "Enemy Combatant" by the Dictatorial Regime...oh wait...only one more year to go.

Sic, Semper, Tyranis : Thus Always To Tyrants

Um, why is this in the B B & Q ??

Did I miss something, I only skimmed the thread.

Part of the smokescreen that Intrepid refers to involves corporate lobbyists putting their "investments" in both political parties...That way, no matter who wins the election, The People lose. Intrepid may bill himself as a "crazy" canuck, but I don't buy that: He's probably just as sane as I (Interpret that however you wish).

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
But for the USA's sake, we the people have got to do something to bring us back to the pride and respect that we deserve in the world. and selling us off slowly aint gonna get there...

In credit for The People though, I do find indications that a lot of People are seeing through the illusions & standing up to defend against the harmful truths behind them...You just gotta look a bit harder for that because you'll never see the real truth in mainstream news media which is, in itself, another corporation that lobbies the government! It's People like this that wind up living on "the edge" (of the coin), knowing that they could still get squashed no matter which side the coin flops onto...
Basically, it's the same way that the US Founding Forefathers lived before the War of Independence...

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
This is Divide & Conquer at it's best, & it works, because the ignorant people don't know what that is, a weapon.

This is why I believe that it's very important to keep the internet as a system for maintaining "freedom of expression"...Corporate Comm Companies are always trying to lobby the government to let them decide who can see what & when. In the "War for Information," censorship & the ability to control access to information is the biggest weapon that they will try to use against us. A "smokescreen" can only try to hide the truth, but information control can actually destroy the truth & replace it with lies.
What really seems to get lost behind the smokescreen is this question, "When so-called 'enlightened secret societies/elite rulers' fool themselves into thinking that they seek to enlighten all of humanity, how can humanity become enlightened when all they are shown are lies & deception?"

Originally posted by Gools
The notions of loyalty and treason runs deep in the American psyche built around "patriotism".

In modern times, it seems to me that they've even been able to corrupt the concept of patriotism itself...Instead of being a patriot for the Nation, people get twisted in being a patriot for the corrupted government instead...That's the ultimate reason for them to create such "smokescreens" in the first place!

Originally posted by Amuk
during the last election on this board I was called, withen minutes of each other, on two different posts, a Neo-Nazi Bush lover and a commie liberal Kerry lover.....

I voted for Badnarik.....

Originally posted by intrepid
WHOEVER wins answers to someone other than the voter. THAT'S my point. Same coin, different sides.

No one's accused me of either...I've recognized the two heads on the coin & always vote, "No Confidence."

Originally posted by dgtempe
Beh...... I'll support anyone of either party who is a real president, with our best interests at heart.

This is why I vote the way I do...There's no corporate-sponsored politician who would have our best interests at heart.

Originally posted by niteboy82
People are choosing sides, when at the very basic it is shown that the politicians are more worried about 1. taking control/keeping control of government, 2. their political careers, 3. the people that line their coffers that help influence their voting through lobbying, campaign contributions, and propaganda.

This is why I've been saying that there should be no room in this Constitutional Republic for any kind of career politician: Politics, having been described as, "the Art of Compromise," never stops to realize that the Constitution itself doesn't leave any room for compromising itself or compromising Citizen Rights. And yet, that's exactly what politicians do for a living...Compromise.

Originally posted by niteboy82
While our supposed "representatives" are grasping for their political jobs and enjoying the fact that we are too busy fighting each other, to ever hold them accountable to doing their own jobs.

This is what gets compromised the most: The Constitution describes what is, essentially, a Civil Service job...Politicians are only concerned about performing "self-service" jobs. I suppose that attitude originates from having so much "corporate sponsorship," where the only thing that matters is "the bottom line."

Originally posted by semperfortis
Just my opinion now, but I think it all started when being a politician became a job/career.
I do not believe the Founding Fathers meant for anyone to be a professional politician.

Actually, they didn't...The earliest "politicians" in US Government did take the job as being for Civil Service. I've seen a cute little story about David Crockett (yes, THE David Crockett) that seemed to sum up his attitude towards the job. In a nutshell though, they saw the job as an interruption of their lives & real jobs but they did it anyway in the spirit of public service! They couldn't wait for the end of their terms so that they could get back to their real lives & families! They had no desire to "make a career" of it!

Originally posted by semperfortis
All I read is agreement after agreement, someone predicting the end to the election process and a "dialectic" approach to resolving the issues. It is refreshing to find so many like minds in one place, but that is never going to solve or resolve any issues...
...SO I fear that we are stuck with our current system and our only recourse is debates on forums such as this. I sure would change it if I could, but I am also sure that most of you would not agree with the person I placed in office.

Well, there is another choice left open to US Citizens: It's written in direct words in the Declaration of Independence & backed up a bit more verbosely in the Constitution:
"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
People are working on "alter" but if that fails, guess what? The USA has no business being a "Democracy," it has no business in the spread of Democracy & it has no business being under control of competing corporate influences (Corporate Facism)...The Constitution demands a Republic form of government & that's what the attempt to "alter" the government should be all about.

Originally posted by Mechanic 32
Um, why is this in the B B & Q ??

Hmmm...I guess it's here because Intrepid started by pointing out that posters should not "attack" other posters...
...But now that you mention it, looks to me like this should get moved over to PTS & the other "general mud-slinging" topics...

I agree with the original post.

Both parties now feel that they can get away with anything, so long as they point out something the opposition did wrong to side track attention from themselves.

The problem?
It's a two party system.

The Solution?
We need to get a third party in there (I mean actually in power), and show both the Republicans and Democrats that they now have real competition... not the usual childish back and forth attention war.

Take a look at the rest of the democratic countries out there... WAY more than just the 2 parties in most countries. Each one making sure they do NOTHING wrong, because that would spell doom for the party.

Look at what happened with the liberal party in Canada... a mere couple of million dollars went missing, the Liberals were held accountable, they were immediately removed from office and a new election was held.

A multiple party system keeps each party in line through the fear of being removed should they screw things up.

This also helps give the people exactly what they want from their government.... which is why you never hear news about Canadian politics... the parties are too afraid of making mistakes to allow anything drastic to happen, hence, you never hear about them doing anything drastic.

The same can be seen with most countries with more than two parties. The parties are kept in line through shere fear of the people.

How long before that very same third party falls victim to the lure of power and become as corrupt as the two we have now?

Perhaps this is the only solution, yet I prefer to change the ones we have now, assuming it is not too late.

"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely"

Semper

Okay. Cool...

And what now? A Nice thread on ATS... and that's it?
What do you guys propose to do?