POLITICS: Bush Faces Republican Revolt Over Spying, page 1
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Topic started on 10-2-2006 @ 09:12 AM by Benevolent Heretic
In December of 2005, it was announced that the National Security Agency (NSA), under President Bush's instruction, had been 'listening in' on communications of US citizens, without warrants to do so, ostensibly to aid in the capture of terrorists who are in contact with American citizens. For some time, the President's wiretapping program has been under scrutiny from Democrats and many who are concerned about civil rights of the citizens of the US. Now, it seems, Republicans are also starting to be concerned about the legality of the program under the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). Arlen Specter, Republican chairman of the Senate judiciary committee, is proposing legislation that would force the matter to the court of FISA for the purpose of determining whether or not the President's wiretapping program is legal.




news.ft.com
Arlen Specter, Republican chairman of the Senate judiciary committee, said on Wednesday he was drafting legislation that would require the administration to seek a ruling from a special US intelligence court on whether the spying programme was legal.

The move could put the Republican-controlled Congress on a collision course with the administration, which has insisted that it is acting legally in monitoring calls and e-mails that might help disrupt future terrorist plots.

The US has been embroiled in a contentious debate over security versus civil liberties since the revelation in December that the National Security Agency had been intercepting communications on US soil since early 2002. The administration says the effort is aimed narrowly at communications involving suspected members of al-Qaeda or their supporters, but in order to identify such suspicious conversations many suspect that the NSA is combing through a far broader range of ordinary calls and e-mails.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


I am glad to see this kind of non-partisan activity in Congress. One of the most dangerous conditions is to have power run unchecked, which is what we’ve had for the past 6 years. I’m encouraged to see the Republicans in Congress holding Bush up to a standard of legality after so many years of simply going along with him because of political party lines.

Fighting terrorism can just as easily be done under the law. If it is difficult to get the necessary warrants, then that problem needs to be addressed. The answer isn’t simply to scoff at the law and go around it to get the desired results, especially not for years without Congress approval.

While some corruption in the government is expected, there comes a time when we must examine how far removed we are from the original intention of the founders of this country, and determine whether or not we want to continue down this path. I think holding the highest office in the land to the law is a great start. If our leader deliberately and obviously breaks the law, what kind of corruption becomes acceptable for those who follow him?


Related News Links:
fairuse.100webcustomers.com
www.themoderatevoice.com

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Rove threatens to blacklist any Republican who votes against the president
Bush Politicizing about Wiretaps...How convenient!

[edit on 10-2-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]


reply posted on 11-2-2006 @ 12:44 AM by Majic
There Ought To Be A Law

Originally posted by loam
The legislation is to ensure FISA review. Are you saying he has made public statements that he believes the President acted properly?

Let's ask him:

From Specter Says Surveillance Program Violated the Law

The program "is in flat violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act," said the chairman, Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, who will open committee hearings on Monday.

That's what he's saying, according to Brian Knowlton of the International Herald Tribune.

My quandary arises from the fact that if this is true, then what's the point of passing another law?

How does that make sense?

The Art Of Not Making Sense

If the President is breaking the law, then passing more laws isn't going to fix that.

My problem with this story is that it defies my ability to understand it.

Maybe it's an indication of a profound reasoning deficit on my part, or maybe it's an indication that this whole issue doesn't make sense.

Why doesn't it make sense? I'll speculate.

Laws Of Deception

I suspect it's because information necessary to understand what's really going on is being withheld.

Why do that? To achieve some sort of political objective.

Who benefits? Probably not someone obvious, and probably not the people being deceived.

Suspicion deliberately turned in one direction usually indicates a desire to turn it from another direction.

I'm getting too damn old to keeping salivating every time some huckster rings a bell, which is why I'm unwilling to play along with this.

And I still expect real violations of law involving the illegal release of classified information to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Unless the law truly has become meaningless, of course.



reply posted on 11-2-2006 @ 08:34 AM by Benevolent Heretic
In Majic form...

FISA vs The Constitution

Originally posted by Majic
Maybe I'm misinformed or just getting jaded, but as far as I know it's never been established that any laws have actually been violated in this whole made-for-TV deflection drama.



2nd Source

The senator, who has clashed with the administration before, said that it was clear to him that the law had been violated. The program, he said on NBC, "is in flat violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act." But it remained to be seen, Mr. Specter added, whether that statute is inconsistent with the Constitution.


It's clear to Mr. Specter that the law has been broken, but he is not the ultimate word on this. The FISA court must look at this as a first step to determining its Constitutionality. That's how I read this anyway.

Originally posted by jsobecky
The sad part about this is, once again, a leak has compromised the methods we have been using to keep the country secure.


As far as I know there is NO indication that the eavesdropping program has contributed at all to keeping us secure.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Carter and Clinton both used the same type of wiretaps Bush did.
Yet the hypocrites claim Bush broke the law.


No, the hypocrites would claim that Carter and Clinton didn't break the law. I don't see that happening here. I'm certainly not claiming that. But I can tell you that I (and millions of others) would trust both Clinton and Carter with a program such as this, where we don't trust Bush to do what's in our best interest. That's the difference for me.

Originally posted by Saphronia
This is just a ploy--this is how they do it--they make a big stink--


This may be closest to the truth. It may be all for show. I hope not, but history speaks otherwise.

Originally posted by jsobecky
First off, congrats on your first ATSNN contribution, BH. You're wrong as usual, but congrats anyway. (j/k)


Ouch! But thanks.


reply posted on 11-2-2006 @ 11:09 AM by FlyersFan
Getting close ...

en.wikipedia.org...

It's too long to exerpt.

I'm still looking for a link to what the TV news is reporting...


[edit on 2/11/2006 by FlyersFan]


reply posted on 11-2-2006 @ 11:26 AM by Benevolent Heretic
In the meantime, you can read here about the strict limits included in Clinton and Carter's wiretapping and how that's different than Bush's; namely they didn't spy on US citizens.

Source


Debunking the Carter/Clinton Myth


I'll be interested to see what you can produce that proves that Carter and Clinton spied on US citizens... Not saying it didn't happen, just saying I haven't seen it.
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