The New Adolph Hitler !

Originally posted by rich23
I'm a new member and would like to thank DaFunk and Ajag for their posts, which seem to be informed and rational. There is another thing I'd like to draw to your attention, though, and it's what makes Chavez truly dangerous to the US' ruling junta. He wants to trade his oil in Euros.

*snip*

And the Iranians are planning to open an oil trading market (bourse) using Euros as the trading currency. In March.

Wonder how long that will be allowed to operate?

Nice one Rich

Didn't know that but it explains a lot

If the oil to Euro trend continues the US is going to be fighting a lot of wars

I have been hearing of the oil currency switch for a couple months now. At first I thought it was just another conspiracy as to why we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, but I think there may be some truth in it. It is a HUGE coincidence that Iran is planning the same switch. Actually, its not a coincidence so much as it scares the hell otta me. If that is truely one of the underlying reasons for our conflicts of late, than we should all plan on lots more. The dollar is appearing like a rat on a sinking ship. The Euro definately shows more promise in the near future. This makes me very upset as an American. We just dont have much to be proud of anymore.

We are seriously looking like a bunch of blood/oil thirsty Jesus freaks.

Am I the only American on here that cares how the rest of the world views us? Am I the only one who cares how we have treated the rest of the planet in the last 100 years?

I'm a Brit but I'm concerned how the US (and UK) look to the rest of the World.

As per the post in ATS www.abovetopsecret.com...

the world owes a massive debt to the US for many technological and cultural innovations but I think recent events are eroding that goodwill.

Many of the US's closest and most-informed friends (Europe and others) do recognise that your govt doesn't represent the majority of you Americans.

My sympathies: your country has been hijacked by a christian/corporate minority who have their (as opposed to your) interests at heart - but you're not the only ones.

Its ok...we always have Canada if things get a little too heavy.

Or maybe even Venezuela!

You guys have...France! HAHA

Only kiddin guys...

Originally posted by Vladtepes
Altough I must admit I enjoy his speeches, he is a funny pathetic wannabe Soup Nazi!!

[edit on 14-2-2006 by Vladtepes]

Funny thing is, if that is how you honestly feel about Hugo then you two have a lot in common!

Originally posted by DaFunk13

Am I the only American on here that cares how the rest of the world views us? Am I the only one who cares how we have treated the rest of the planet in the last 100 years?

Either they hate us or they feel sorry for U.S.
And when it comes to the mistreatment of the planet, this nation has provided approx 25% of the chemical and synthetic chemical pollution, and we are responsible for over 30% of the depletion to the stratospheric ozone layer... everybody is guilty of destroying their 'source', not because we have destroyed our environment 'equally',
because none of us has done anything to stop it.

you hear..... "Somebody is killing OUR Mother ! "

and nobody want's to discuss it

All these things are true, but lets not leave out the exploitation of the poor worldwide by the rich. The pollution aspects are terrible enough, but when you add the fact that we (the US) are hugely responsible for the slave like conditions many in the third world endure, it really is clear that we are raping "Mother" without conscience...all for the almighty $

Strangerous, Dafunk: thank you for your polite consideration of the idea I dropped. I'm a Brit, and I feel like we're the new Italians to the US' Nazis. (I suspect I'm going to get flamed for that one, but remember that Mussolini - whom I think we can accept knew a thing or two about fascism - said that "fascism is more properly termed corporatism, as it marks the merger of state and corporate power".) I would say that applies just as much as ever right now.

And unusually perhaps for a Brit, I rather like the French. They're pretty ballsy in many ways, they resist globalisation and if something upsets them, they're out in the streets setting fire to things before you can say 'civil disobedience'. Both the US and the UK, imho, could use some of that spirit.

Originally posted by rich23
Strangerous, Dafunk: thank you for your polite consideration of the idea I dropped. I'm a Brit, and I feel like we're the new Italians to the US' Nazis. (I suspect I'm going to get flamed for that one, but remember that Mussolini - whom I think we can accept knew a thing or two about fascism - said that "fascism is more properly termed corporatism, as it marks the merger of state and corporate power".) I would say that applies just as much as ever right now.

And unusually perhaps for a Brit, I rather like the French. They're pretty ballsy in many ways, they resist globalisation and if something upsets them, they're out in the streets setting fire to things before you can say 'civil disobedience'. Both the US and the UK, imho, could use some of that spirit.

I agree with you Rich - we are the Italians to the US's Nazis. Both us and the US are rapidly eroding any goodwill we had in this desperate venture.

Ditto guys.

Sad huh?

I dont know if I would say Italy/Nazi Germany just yet, but the direction we are heading is definately a little scary. We do need a little bit of revolt I think. I can't speak for the UK but I know our entire movement here has been summarized by drunk politicians and grieving mothers. Its not working to say the least.

Protests, marches, etc...are only ignored. The media jumps all over a couple soldiers lumping up a couple Iraqi teens, yet how many print this happening everyday to our own citizens for reasons less justifiable than throwing rocks at the police? It is a joke. We are being deceived and the people are buying it. (Or at least 51% did.)

I am dying to see the next Malcolm X or Abbie Hoffman. We need modern day revolutionaries that will put a face, and a leader to a serious movement towards reform. Right now all we have is a lot of curruption and whining.

I always defined fascism as a kind of domestic imperialism. I'll be damned if it doesnt seem to be sweeping the planet.

Just ignore your grumbling stomachs and cancers and watch the commercials.

MMMMMM...commercials....

There's a really good essay by Umberto Eco called something like "12 Ways To Recognise a Brownshirt" in which he gives 12 basic indicators of the fascist mentality. I've just tried to Google it and came up with nothing, which is odd, as there were several copies of it circulating on the net not that long ago.

Anyway, some of Eco's pertinent criteria are:

1) pubic debate and discourse is based on lies. Think about this in the context of how the Iraq war was (and is) sold, at the very least. I think it's pretty prevalent in US political culture and becoming more so in the UK.

2) the cult of the leader. There is definitely an irrational cult regarding the President of the US, a feeling that it would be disloyal to stand up and say "the Emperor has no clothes." A couple of years back I was in Texas and talking to a woman who would be regarded as a bit of a lefty over there, and she said, "One of the reasons I can't stand Bush is that he makes a terrible father to the nation." This statement turned me from feeling nothing but genial contempt for our royal family to thinking that they're a necessary evil in that they act as a 'lightning rod' for that kind of irrational thinking. If having a royal family makes it easier for us to see Tony Bliar as the crawly little toad he undoubtedly is, then maybe it's worth keeping them around. Just.

3) the cult of action. The US has to DO something, it's got all that power, if there's wrongdoing in the world, we should do something about it, right? Combine this tendency with (1) above and you have a ready-made rationale for foreign interventions.

There are many more headings, and I wish I could remember them. But there's a quotation from, I think, Goebbels, which is very pertinent to the US political climate at the moment. I'm paraphrasing here, but...

"The problem is always the same. How do you persuade someone to abandon his family and farm, and go to a foreign land and fight for his country? The solution is always the same, and applies whether the government is communist, fascist, or democratic. You simply tell him his country is in danger, and that anyone who says different is a traitor."

I'd drop the name Anne Coulter in at this point.

Btw, I don't think that 'communist', 'fascist' and 'democratic' forms of government are mutually exclusive, I'm just quoting from memory.

So, for those looking for the next whoever, there's Cindy Sheehan, for one. There's also Noam Chomsky and William Blum.

[edit on 15-2-2006 by rich23]

What I am beginning to realize is that the most promising figures to head reform are too repulsed by the way things have become in the past, say, 50 years that they would never dream of taking a true political stance, only an anti-establishment one.

People like Chomsky will never be involved in politics because they realize how currupt and ugly it really is. It seems that the people who share my views have nothing but contempt for our entire gov't, not just present policies. I dont want to see the whole thing go down. I am not hoping for revolution. I want to see a huge reform. I would really like the States to take a lesson from our neighbor to the north, but I know it will never happen.

My biggest fear is that this current situation will only get worse until there is a revolution. I firmly believe that if things continue of this course we are either going to have a lot of people moving north, or we are going to see armed resistance.

The problem is that the government in the US has completely changed the definition of patriotism. Bush and the media have brainwashed the people into thinking that you are only patriotic if you support your president into whatever he says no matter what is it. If he says jump, you wither jump or you are a traitor. I consider patriotism doing what is better for my country and what it stands for, even going against my president's desicions if need be.

Another problem the US government has is that most of the people forming part of it are way too connected with the corporate world. This is a big problem because the mentality of the corporate world is dog eat dog, fully capitalistic. Right now they are making a fortune in Iraq, Afghanistan and even in New Orleans after Katrina. I am completely opposed to the people who are supposed to be working for us (I say us because I am involving all governments) are just using us to make a killer profit on their main businesses. Has any of you watched the movie the corporation? If not, I highly recommend it. It is a docummentary about how the corporate world works.

A revolution is needed in the US to restore the government's morals and values to those written down on their declaration of independance, to the real definition of patriotism.

Anybody ever seen the movie the Yes Men? Its about a bunch of guys that pose as members of the WTO and make asses out of the entire organization. All the while, the audience swallows the whole thing. They talk of slave like conditions and massive exploitations and the crowd doesnt even realize its parody.

You have to laugh so you dont cry.

Originally posted by AJAG
A revolution is needed in the US to restore the government's morals and values to those written down on their declaration of independance, to the real definition of patriotism.

You're so right AJAG!! Know what the problem with that is now?
You're no longer considered a patriot if you attempt to restore moral's, values from the Declaration of Independance or Restore the rights granted us by the Constitution now, according to our illegal bush & co it goes something like this: "Youre either with us, or youre with the terrorists"

AJAG, Strange, DaFunk, Rich I've enjoyed reading through each of your posts. I too, like you, are feeling the global boiling point that is manifesting at the moment with the Fascist US Government policies at the core of it.


Whether or not some of us believe in the Mayan long count calendar (having a decent understanding of it is imperative to being able to see why I find it applicable to mention here), if one were to examine the TRUE meaning of it gleaned from the Mayan Elders, and how they prophecied on whats going on now and how to remedy it, it seems that someone like Hugo Chavez is on the right track to that remedy...for this I respect the man to the fullest. It's all about peace, compassion for your brothers and sisters (everywhere in the world), a better understanding of yourself and how to be in tune with Mother Earth, the Environment, all around you. How the world isnt ending but going through another of the billions of years worth of cycles that it always has before, LONG before our time. A new plane of existence, a new harmony, where our Mother is at peace again.
Maybe someone like Chavez actually understands this, and he could be the most uneducated man in the world, and it wouldnt matter, so long as he understands the balance between our respect for each other and for that which provides us a home, the Earth...like I've said, maybe he just realizes this is paramount.

Government corruption is so deeply seeded how could we REALLY root it out? Think about that, it's impossible with laws and laws and more laws designed to protect you against the laws that were made yesterday, and now, the laws that will affect you tomorrow, but will have to be amended because of the new laws superceding the laws took affect the day before.
With executive orders designed to shield criminal activity, and, then again, define criminal activity or morals? Is it moral and just to steal from someone rich to feed your family who is dying of starvation? Not in this society, yet i say yes. Is it moral and just to kill innocent civilians, to shower them with depleted uranium, or white phosphor or to shoot at little girls or teenage girls and boys who are walking home from school their only crime being in the wrong place at the wrong time but in a world of suicide bombers? The US and Israeli forces say yes it is absolutely just a moral, yet i say no.

I know im ranting, but I'm tired, tired of seeing good, innocent, decent hearted civilians who work so hard for a living falling prey to money hungry empires, that, someone has to do and say and act on something, something they truly believe in! I truly believe in the people who want peace, love, life, liberty, freedoms, and a respect for their brothers and sisters and neighbors to share the same...and am more than willing to fight for exactly that.

AB1

Est-ce que France un grand pays, vous est-il comprennent le français?
France is a great country, do you understand french?

Anyways, on topic, so far we have

"Hugo isn't an evil commie demon vampire, in fact the lower and middle class people love him as he sticks it to the people that abused them for so many years."

And

"Fox News/Bush and COmpany said Hugo is an evil commie demon vampire so it must be true!!!! Invade South America and kill them all!!!!! Round them up and gas em since they aren't rich white people!!!!!"

Now, whose side seems more credible? I am just summing up the past few pages for ADHD people who don't have the patience to read all the posts.

LOVED The Yes Men. Saw their website a few years back - very, very funny. For those who enjoy a bit of satire, I really like Get Your War On at

www.mnftiu.cc

And I think summing up the posts for people with ADHD is kind of a waste of time - it reduces the arguments, makes them look like each other (which they are not) and doesn't do anyone any favours. Mais bien sur je sais parler Francais - j'y ai demeurai pendant quelques mois et j'adore la langue.

But the problems with the US are kind of structural. I appreciate that some want reform over revolution - who wants sudden, drastic, possibly calamitous change in their own country? (especially when you can export it) - but the problems are very deep-seated.

The US is psychologically dependent on the myth that it stands for freedom and democracy around the world. As those know who've read some Chomsky and Blum, and have actually kept an eye on the way things are going in the world, this is certainly not true today. If you read Brig-Gen Smedley D Butler's "War Is A Racket" you can see it goes back to the early part of the last century: if you read Mark Twain on the subjugation of the Philippines, you can see it goes back much farther than that. Reading Twain is amazing: the rhetoric used all the way back in the 1890's is uncannily like that bandied about now.

I've read US history textbooks. They make no mention, for example, of the CIA interventions throughout Latin America. All these coups just seem to happen, presumably because the Latinos are a bit excitable and basically half-way to being savage. No mention, for example, that most of the paramilitaries across the region, and many of the generalissimo heads of state who control them, are graduates of the School of the Americas in Fort Benning, Georgia.

In reality, the US has been creating a hidden empire across the globe for over a hundred years, and is absolutely ruthless in maintaining it. As far as standing for 'democracy' goes, that's strictly image: people in Greece, the Phillippines, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, and pretty much any South and Central American country you can mention, know different. And the purpose of Empire is always economic dominance.

So you basically have a structure in which the transnationals run the country through bought politicians and everything is structured for their benefit. A compliant media fosters the image that every foreign intervention is either nothing to do with the US at all (it being far above that sort of thing) or for the benefit of the locals. Plus the media run the 'Bad Guy of the Month' club so we can all get behind hating Saddam/Khomeini/Chavez/Noriega/Bin Laden.

I don't know how it's going to change. I kind of hope that they're going to wake up soon after the fourth or maybe fifth stolen election... though maybe the powers behind the scenes are going to realise that corporate America could use some Clinton-style smoothness and fiscal responsibility, which might pull things back from the brink and restore the status quo. It's not unlikely that there'll be another rigged election, though, in which case the precipice just gets closer and closer... an enormous budget deficit, more tax cuts, fewer jobs for the working-class tax base, the dollar growing weaker and weaker and more people waking up to the fact that trading oil in dollars is a waste of money. It's not looking good.

Don't get me wrong, though, I'm not partisan or a fan of Clinton. He was in it up to his neck just like the rest of them - in a way I like Dubya better; it's utterly obvious he's a cretin. Billy-boy was smooth and could actually talk in proper sentences with verbs and everything.

One guy I know is an entertainer who did a performance for Bill Clinton. He and his wife were at the party afterwards and at one point he came back from the toilet to see BC trying seriously hard to get his wife to nip off for a quickie. When he tried to rejoin his wife, suddenly a wall of secret service guys was in his way...

Originally posted by msnevil

(Note: South America is a Big Battleground between the USA's war of Drugs. And the Leftist Marxists supporters of the Drug regime's. Which are supported by Cuba and China as well. Its all about "power". Leftist Imperialism vrs US imperialism.)

Side Note:
And the ironic Thing is This. Cindy Sheehan would be killed if she "protested across from Chavez's Home."

And I Would rather live in the States and protest Bush. And Live. Then live under Chavez, And always fear for my life.

Thank you for your little piece of propaganda. Looks like you swallowed it hook, line & sinker. Any knowledgeable human being knows better than take what you said seriously.

[edit on 17-2-2006 by Unplugged]

Unplugged, I dont know if you noticed us ignoring that post my msnevil. I think we would all prefer if you did too. I am rather enjoying intelligent conversation with these guys. I dont want the bickering.

Here's a website I find very useful. During the Iraq invasion they were even posting translations of the intel that Russia was supplying to Saddam - very enterprising. It was kind of cool - I'd read this stuff and then see the sanitised version of events that showed up on CNN.

www.informationclearinghouse.info

La langue est beau rich23, et autant que j'aimerais aller en France moi-même qui coûte de l'argent et quand je ne suis pas à l'école moi suis en République Dominicaine dominicaine effectuant le travail de charité.

Anyways, with the SUmmary, I know how annoying it is for someone new to read pages of things to try and catch up, and while 3-5 pages is ok, but I have tried to catch up on 20+pages of discussion and would have cut a finger off for just a chance that someone could sum it up for me.

And, on topic, links? SO far most, the unbiased ones NOT owned by Fox News/Bush, say Hugo is great, a man of the people, kicked out oil barons ran by the GOP, and so now the GOP want him dead.