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Has the U.S. lost all support and credits?

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posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 03:08 PM
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It may be strange, but I cannot remember the last time that anyone told me he or she liked or supported Bush. On the contrary, if the current state of affairs is discussed, people are reacting with very strong and usually negative opinions about the U.S.

Reading through the board I even found a declaration of war against the u.s.in the War on Terrorism forum.

What is going on, and when did the tide turn?

To be honest, I am not an American myself, and live in Europe, but still it is almost like there is some form of general U.S. bashing going on that anything or everything coming out of the USA is strongly opposed or labeled as ´nonsense and lies´.

Not to mention on subjects like:

9/11
Zero Point Energy (who discusses it anyway in public these days you say)
War on Iraq/Terrorism
Environmental issues (Kyoto treaty opposition)

Strange given that the U.S. was very popular not so long ago, and was always respected in Europe.

Maybe it is just that Bush doesn´t do so well in PR. Or public appearances, or anything else for that matter. Personally, my gut turns every time he speaks. All I can think of is ´Lying s.o.b.!´ and I do not know where this is coming from.

More frightening is that now the news media over here are starting to question U.S. judgement more and more, only fueling this aversion against the U.S.

You should see the programs on Dutch television it is absolutely amazing. Stuff that would (could) never be broadcast nationally in the U.S. Stuff on DU, 9/11, War on Terror which would make Michael Moore blush. A while back in England the BBC did broadcast a three part series called "The Power of Nightmares - The rise of the Politics of Fear".

This is a stunning documentary about the fabrication of Al-Queeda and was shown all over Europe.

Well judge for yourself.....

Part I
video.google.com...

Part II
video.google.com...

Part III
video.google.com...

How do Americans amongst themselves feel I wonder. (Easy to ask on this board, duh) But what about the discussions you have amongst your friends, family?

Is anyone in America besides the corporate moguls supporting the current state of affairs?
If everyone is against, isn´t it about time for impeachment? Start by locking up the entire Carlyle group!

I do not know if this is true, but some programs we see say that if you speak out against the government in the U.S. nowadays, you may very well be labelled as un-patriotic and lose your job.

If so, it´s Animal Farm......

For purpose of argument, America won the cold war and is now the sole World Power or Superstate.
"We are the U.S. and we can do whatever the hell we want so shut up or else..."

It scares the hell out of me and makes me wonder about the future which awaits us.

[edit on 8-2-2006 by HardToGet]




posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 06:11 PM
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Good post.

IMO Europe used to love & respect the US. Not just for joining the UK in defeating the Nazis but for giving us teen culture, Neil Armstrong, screen legends, cartoons etc etc

Now, I'd agree, very few people have any kind words to say about the US government (not the US people).

There are many reasons for this

Iraq
Kyoto
Globalisation destroying many of the differences that made countries unique
Cultural domination via Hollywood and TV
Inequitable trade policies
Familiarity - as technology shrinks the world we see more & more of what the US is actually like

The change has been coming for some years (since Vietnam?) but the Bush/Iraq episode eroded much of the post 9/11 sympathy for the US and tipped many in Europe from mild apathy into out-right condemnation.

Apart from Bush the main ones to blame for this state of affairs are PNAC who failed to recognise the concept of consent / friendly nations and instead saw the rest of the world as just potential exploitees & enemies.

I agree it's happening and I agree it's a damn, damn shame



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 06:49 PM
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Well, there may be a light at the end of the tunnel. I figure that at least one issue can no longer be ignored, which is the 9/11 conspiracy.

Voices which do not accept the official version become louder and louder, especially now with Loose Change 2 and an acedemic interest shown for that documentary.

The whole house of cards will come down once 9/11 is re-investigated.

Then PNAC will need to adjust some previously established guidelines I guess.



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 07:17 PM
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i personally dispise the Bush led government. Yes i live in Australia, but the American administration's influence on the Aussie government is becoming overwhelming.
We see more and more scandal and conspiracy arise by the day and have to wonder what the hell they are doing to us?
They care less about the people and more about their corporate ties to the rest of the world. Just so they can get a big 'chink' in their pocket.

Problem is the general population is getting restless with the Howard led government following in Bush's footsteps. So crime and misconduct escalate, as a result of the revolting population.
To counter-act this the politicians pass rediculus laws and bills to control the pissed off populus.
They give 'special' abilities to the cops so they can beat us and arrest us for suspicion of anything they deem illegal or a threat to society.

Yes, the world is turning to shiza!
Yes, we hate Bush and his cronies!
No, we don't hate America cos they are just as helpless as the rest of us.
Yes, i hope Australia's population becomes very unstable and forms a terrorist organisation of its own to combat the barstards that seem to drive our lives into the ground in order to fill their bottomless pockets.

They say they strive to make life easier and safer for us but they don't.
Stupid people believe they do! Rich people believe they do!

# EM ALL!!!




posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 08:44 PM
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I guess I'll be the first American to chime in.

I like/support the Bush administration.

The people who dont like Bush, There #1 reason why is that (they think) he lied about WMD in Iraq, and we shouldn't be there, and that we should leave Iraq now.

These people are all shortminded. If we could rewind time with what we know now, We would of left Iraq alone, since its clear now that Saddam was still licking his wounds from Desert Storm over a decade ago.
But the fact is we are there, and need to do it right, and Bush is doing it right, Its just the average joe who watchs the news wont here about isurgents captures or bomb plot foiled or new buildings being built...because they dont grab headlines...Which is why virually everyday they talk about another IED that killed a dozen people. The fact is Iraq is getting better, the Infastructure continues to build up...The one thing we really need to work on more extensively is IED's.



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 09:24 PM
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Another foreigner from down south here...new zealand.

My country did not support the war in Iraq. Personally, I have lived in the US and in England and was there at the time the war started. I FULLY supported the ousting of Saddam, without a doubt. Unfortunately, this then creates aftermath. I support the US & allies trying to 'free' the Iraqi people.

However, I do believe there are MANY issues that have been dealt with quite badly by the Bush & Co. Too much underhanded things like the abuse of prisoners etc and his and cheneys trying to deny all knowledge etc.....the lack of WMD found.....his handling of Kartrina aftermath etc...
(I could list things for hours lol)...

So, overall, yes my opinion of Bush has changed - for the worse. I'd have to agree that the opinion re the US has somewhat declined - but overall, they're still a damn site better than many other countries around the world! I still admire Bush's convictions and determination to stop terrorism though. I can also say, I'd NEVER have his job
Clinton was good, imo.

My comments relate to Bush & admin, not the american people in general. I think yer all mostly lovely folks


Cheers



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 09:42 PM
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Well i will agree with the original poster that the world opinion of America has declined alot since Bush Admin was in power. I just wonder if this is what the people of America wanted when they went to the polling booths, a world that dis-trusts the surposed "leader of free speech and democracy".
Not to say Clinton, Reagen, etc didnt have their own dirty work, but the bush admin has really taken a very agressive foreign policy that i doubt the majority of American citizens orginaly agreed with. The war on terroism originaly was blown out of proporion after 9-11, but through the invasion of afganistan and iraq it has generated a new reason for islamic youths to be frustrated with America and the west.
Im not saying that terroism was created by Bush, but through his foreign policy he has created a new wave of terroism i believe.

Is this what the real American wanted?



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by wang
The war on terroism originaly was blown out of proporion after 9-11, but through the invasion of afganistan and iraq it has generated a new reason for islamic youths to be frustrated with America and the west.
Im not saying that terroism was created by Bush, but through his foreign policy he has created a new wave of terroism i believe.

Terrorism is in the Limelight more now, just because it wasn't as talked about, didn't mean it wasn't there. The taliban existed long before 9/11.

Bush in my mind is far better then Clinton, The guy who did nothing after terrorist bombed the USS Cole.


MBF

posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 10:22 PM
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In my opinion, the war in Iraq was not over oil, but because Saddam tried to have Bush#1 killed. Face it, if someone tried to kill our fathers we would go after his head too. Also Bush#1 was accused of "not finishing the job" in Iraq during the first war so I think that Bush#2 felt like he needed to finish the job.

Saddam needed to be taken out of power. It could have been done with just one bullet, but the Iraqi people would have wound up with somebody just like Saddam in power. At least now they have a chance to pick their own rulers.

I don't necessarily like being in Iraq, but if we don't show terrorists of the world that we have the will to fight, they will be in our streets killing us.

Oil may have been a factor for the war, but I feel it is not as high on the list as most people believe it to be.



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 10:45 PM
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American here, who lived and worked in the Middle East in the 90's.


I am a reluctant supporter of Bush's foreign policy.

Europe and the rest of the west conveniently forgets that is was French intel that gave the reasons the USA took to the UN to explain why economic sanctions weren't working against Saddam.

When the US and UK committed troops, suddenly France decided that the intel was false and they tried to warn US that Saddam wasn't a valid threat.


I think that, regardless of your nationality, you have to understand that other nations only have positive regard for your country insofar as it serves their interests.

As long as USA was acting on behalf of European interests against Serbia, US was popular and supported.

Naturally, there come times in world events when a nation has to act in its own interests.

At that point, you are forced to acknowledge that nations are only "fair-weather" friends; they are your buddy as long as the cash, oil, or trade flows to them with advantage.

Is the EU upset about Iraq? Or is it the end of Iraq's "UN oil for food scam" (which benefits a number of EU govts.)? Or was it that NAFTA and the World Trade Organization has made european farm subsidies even more unrealistic?

It seems the EU would like the US to "do something" about Iran; I wonder whether USA would be more hated for intervening, or for doing nothing . . . ?

It's only natural for each nation to seek its own interests. I don't blame other nations for disliking us when we no longer serve their needs and convenience.

I think they shouldn't be surprised when we act for our own selves, when the American president serves his own citizens instead of world opinion.

.



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by Murcielago
Terrorism is in the Limelight more now, just because it wasn't as talked about, didn't mean it wasn't there. The taliban existed long before 9/11.

What we consider modern terroism has been around since the 60's and 70's, their were terroist groups from different regions. I remember reading about a greek terroist gorup in the late 70's and early 80's lead by some mysterious greek man that has never been photographed or caught.
The Islamic revolutionary movemnt was started in the 70's in egypt if im not wrong?
What i was trying to express Murcielago was that America today has now created a new generation of muslims to be upset with americas foreign policy, and the past generations fanatical islamic leaders are using it to their advantage.
Thats how i see the situation anyway.



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by HardToGet
It may be strange, but I cannot remember the last time that anyone told me he or she liked or supported Bush.

Then, practically by definition, you have too narrow of an interaction group.



On the contrary, if the current state of affairs is discussed, people are reacting with very strong and usually negative opinions about the U.S.



Pericles in Thucydides Book III, Paragraph.64, 'Benjamin Jowett Translation'

'Hatred and unpopularity at the time have ever been the fate of those who have aspired to empire. But it is good judgment to accept odium in a great cause; hatred does not last long, and brilliance of the moment and fame of afterdays remain forever in men's memories'


Strange given that the U.S. was very popular not so long ago, and was always respected in Europe.

When? Europe practically invented the term "Ugly American". People have hated the United States for a long time.


Maybe it is just that Bush doesn´t do so well in PR.

This hatred will exist long after bush. It has little to do with him.


All I can think of is ´Lying s.o.b.!´ and I do not know where this is coming from.

If you cannot justify it then why think it?


Is anyone in America besides the corporate moguls supporting the current state of affairs?

You mean besides the people that voted for bush and that swept the republicans into control of the congress?



If everyone is against, isn´t it about time for impeachment?

? Presidents don't get impeached because they become unpopular. Or at least thats not how its supposed to work.


I do not know if this is true, but some programs we see say that if you speak out against the government in the U.S. nowadays, you may very well be labelled as un-patriotic and lose your job.

Untrue. Its happened, and its illegal, but its not some common occurance.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 12:39 AM
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A guy tells you his POV and why he thinks that.

He says nice things about your country but suggests you may be going off track.

You tell him he's wrong, that his people have always (unjustifiably) 'hated' your country.

All the people he knows are wrong.

Can you not acknowledge there's anything wrong with your country at all that might cause former friends to now look upon you differently?

Or are we all deluded in no longer holding the US in the affection we once did?



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by MBF
In my opinion, the war in Iraq was not over oil, but because Saddam tried to have Bush#1 killed.


When? where?



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 02:13 AM
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Sympathy for America reached its peak at 9/11. Since then the actions of Bush have taken it from an example of democracy, to almost an example of demagogy...

(Defn ... Demagogy is the set of methods used by demagogues. It is a strategy of obtaining power by appealing to the gut feelings of the public, usually by powerful use of rhetoric and propaganda. www.answers.com...&r=67)



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 02:22 AM
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Public Diplomacy

You know, sometimes I get the feeling somebody wants the rest of the world to hate the U.S.

It's almost as if there were some sort of campaign to get people to think that way.

Probably just my imagination.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 02:23 AM
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Back in 2002-2003 Americans still had lots of respect in my country, but after the Iraqi invasion the tide started to turn. Now only some paranoid kooks support the U.S., because they think the U.S. is handling the "terrorist threat."

You Americans can deny it all you want, but that's how it is anyway.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 02:26 AM
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You know, sometimes I get the feeling somebody wants the rest of the world to hate the U.S.

It's almost as if there were some sort of campaign to get people to think that way.

Probably just my imagination.


Probably not your imagination. There are obviously groups who make it their bread and butter to defame the most powerful nation in the world.

However, a good question in my mind is this: do those groups with their tricks have a greater effect on public opinion than our modus operandi of conquest and exploitation?

I think not. The propaganda masters can lie their heads off, and it really shouldn't make much difference. When you look back at US history, it's the truth that leaves a bad taste in your mouth, not the fabrications. Unless of course the slaughter of the first nations was a hoax.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 03:03 AM
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Public Opinion Pole


Originally posted by WyrdeOne
However, a good question in my mind is this: do those groups with their tricks have a greater effect on public opinion than our modus operandi of conquest and exploitation?

A question which I find more difficult to answer is whether or not these are actually different groups.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by Majic
Public Diplomacy

You know, sometimes I get the feeling somebody wants the rest of the world to hate the U.S.

It's almost as if there were some sort of campaign to get people to think that way.

Probably just my imagination.




Or perhaps this is people telling you how they feel and you're hiding behind a paranoic shield of 'it's a campaign, we've done nothing wrong'?

When friends tell you there's a problem there often is



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