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Layout before prototype collection

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posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 08:15 AM
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I considered almost every type of fighter craft has some of layout that was more and more closer to after I have seen many military aircraft, but we also lost much more than we had known.
Today is the first one I want to ask is E-155.
We all know the E-155 is the prototype of MiG-25. But all we know the exp. aicraft before E-155 is E-152 that is the only one we can found. So far the E-152 is totally different with the E-155. The E-152 which if you type MIG E-152 to search in google is pretty similar to Fishbed or Fishhold, whereas the E-155 looks like just a copy of Vigilanter with short span. Although someone of MiG Bureau has said that Foxbat itimate from Vigilanter, but we have no evidence to prove it, the rather that we lost some series number as E-153, E-154.
So, what's the transition between E-152 to E-155?




posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 09:21 AM
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Emile, there is no transition as such (at least none that is known to me).

The Ye152 was a development of the Ye150 and here is the Ye152M, a form you may not have seen before;



However all the designs for the MiG 25 were done under the Ye-155 designation. This included a design with engines stacked vertically like the Lightning, which I don't have a picture of, but also the following ones which all look like variations of the MiG 25 we know today.

The design was originally split into two versions, Ye 155R for reconnaissance and Ye 155P, the interceptor, for a time it was considered that two different layouts would be required with the fighter version having a swing wing which you can see below, the top picture is the VG Ye 155P and the lower one the STOL Ye 155R.



This idea was later dropped and the prototype seen here is the first Ye155R to fly, this became the prototype for all subsequent MiG 25's, notice the large wingtip tanks and down turned wingtip fins, quickly dropped.



Development continued of course and resulted in the MiG 31 but here are some more Ye 155 variations along the way to the MiG 31. The two seat layout was always present in these designs but here you can see that the VG wing was once again considered, below this is a slightly later version with a new side by side seating arrangement.




As an alternative to the VG wing another proposal was made to fit folding LERX to what otherwise looked like a two seat MiG 25. The idea was that it folded away during high seed flight and opened out for low speed manoeuvrability and enhanced airfield performance. Of course neither of these ideas was produced.



The final development was this one which shows the beginnings of the MiG 29 wing. This design led directly to the MiG 29 Heavy, which was the rival design to the Sukhoi Flanker and also remained unbuilt.




posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 09:27 AM
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If you want to see the first layout model for the Mig-25 look no further...




This was the inspirationg that lay the groundwork for the project



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 09:31 AM
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Why, Could Mikoyan see into the future?
The spec for the MiG 25 was written in 1958 and the design drawn up by 1961, the prototype flew in 1964, by contrast the first F-15 flew in 1972 after a development period of approx four years (how things have changed). 1972 was also the year that the Mig 31's development began, so how on earth was it based on the F-15 AT ALL?


[edit on 8-2-2006 by waynos]



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 09:36 AM
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I don't believe that Mikoyan could see that far into the future. It seems to me that the MiG-25 is strongly influenced by North American Aviation designs of the late fifties/early sixties, particularly the F-108 and the Vigilante.

[edit on 8-2-2006 by templar8]



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 09:45 AM
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It may be that there is some cosmetic influence but in my research I have found mention of only one 'foreign' type in relation to the MiG 25's development and that was the BAC Lightning and refers to a layout that was not pursued. It appears to me that this design was 100% original Mikoyan work. Of course influence is hard to quantify and all new aircraft are influenced to some degree by what has gon before.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 05:20 AM
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Well, I can believe that you said in this page, but how can you persuade others the Ye155 just developed from Ye152, since these two are so different. I feel every prototype must fly after some layout has been designed step by step to be close to. We very hard to image only some layouts on drawtable as MiG-21 or some experimental plane as MiG-19 can be a prototype as a F-15 Eagle.
As you said:

Originally posted by waynos
However all the designs for the MiG 25 were done under the Ye-155 designation

can I understand that as MiG-25 was equal to Ye-155 or Ye-155 was still a experimental aircraft that used cone-airinlet at nose? No matter Ye-155 or Ye-152, even all airframe of Ye- series used cone-airinlet at nose was much far away from MiG-25 we have seen today. By the way, some pictures you post as swing wing and S/VTOL series number was clearly later than prototype of MiG-25. So we still lose the transition number between Ye152 to MiG-25.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 06:43 AM
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I think you've missed my point emile. The Ye 155 was not developed from the Ye 152. There is no transition between them at all. The Ye 155 was designed from scratch to meet the Soviet requirement for a mach 3 high altitude interceptor and was a fresh design. It never used a nose intake at any point.

The swing wing and STOL (not VTOL) models pictured in the 2nd photo come BEFORE the prototype, not after it. The photos are in chronological order and show the design process that led to the MiG 25, not developments of it, the later developments are shown below the photo of the prototype.

Ye 155 is the Mikoyan designation for the aircraft design, MiG 25 is the operational designation for the same plane, they are not different, that is why the later design models I have shown also carry the 155 number on their nose.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 07:39 AM
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Yes, no transition is why I strongly suspect the Foxbat was just imitate from Vigilanter



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 05:33 AM
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If it's an immitation it's not a very good one. lol. No, Mig have the ability to design original aircraft - like people saying the Mig 29 is a copy of the F-18 etc, way off the mark. Remember that at that oint in time the twin fins of the Mig-25 were a trend setter. If anything the Americans copied the Mig -25 when they designed the F-15. lol.

Also, in the design process that Waynos illustrates so well, you also see elements of Mig-23 coming out.

Waynos, do you have any illustrations of the Mig-29 "heavy"?



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 06:04 AM
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There is a connection between the F-15 and the Mig 25. However, it's not what you think!

The Mig 25 was design in the 1960's to counter the A-12 and SR-71 Blackbird Spyplanes. Western Intelligence got it's first glance at the Foxbat, while it wa in testing. Not knowing much about it, the experts Thought (wrongly of course) that the Mig 25 was an air superiority fighter. To counter the Foxbat, the USAF developed the F-15 Eagle!

It was the Mig 25 Foxbat that inspired the F-15, not the other way around.

Tim



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 08:02 AM
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No, I've never said that MiG-25 Foxbat is imitated from F-15. All points I directed is MiG-25 was imtated from A-5 Vigilanter. A-5 Vigilanter is much earlier than E-155 that is a prototype of MiG-25.
[IMG]http://users.adelphia.net/~jhaasnh/aerospace/images/A3J%20schematic.gif[[/IMG]
Besides, the F-15 do has many layouts being before the first prototype of F-15A

The interesting point is some layouts of pre-prototype of MiG-29 might was very close to the layouts before prototype of F-15 as LAFX-8 according to Matej given the layout of pre-MiG-29.



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 08:35 AM
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The requirement for the MiG 25 was issued in 1958 and was intended to counter the B-58 Hustler, the Blackbirds development was unkown at this time, thats essentially the first reason why the MiG 25 was unable to catch it, it was never meant to. The rival to the Ye 155 for the contract was the Tupolev Tu-148 which looked very much like the Tu-145 bomber proposal which went on to become the Tu-22M Backfire.

As for the MiG 29 Heavy, here's a photo of a later design model from 1972, by this time an F-15 influence had clearly appeared, however before this (MiG 29 design began in 1970) the design had a single fin that look ed like that of the MiG 23




posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 01:19 PM
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I don't know if any of you realizes that the 50s and the early 60s were the rather early years of the jet era, whеn various concepts, designs shapes and combinations were tested to find the optimal result for missions that were just then becomming necessary.

It oes not suprize me that many of the ideas of that time were so "identical".



[edit on 10-2-2006 by vorazechul]



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 09:53 PM
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Physic's has a funny way of being the same around the world.



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 12:18 AM
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We've all known the prtotype of Su-27 was T-10, and the prototype of Su-24 called T-6. There are several layout between T-6 to T-10, maybe T-7/8/9 etc. Now let's move on Britsh, I just knew the first prototype of Tornado called PANAVIA 200, and there was a PANAVIA 100 being before 200. I've seen a very blurred picture of PANAVIA 100 in a book, but as I knew there are several hundred of model before PANAVIA 100 at least. Why I did my best but still have never seeing them, even in book. If you know some concepts of PANAVIA series please teach me here...



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 12:53 AM
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As I recall from watching wings of the Red Star the Mig-25 was a development to counter the XB-70 Valkyrie. Which was suppose to be a Mach-3 intercontinental bomber. So naturally the Soviets found it only prudent to develop a mach 3 interceptor.



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 03:44 AM
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Ok Emile, lets start from the beginnig. The main error is that you assume, that there is some kind of order or algorytmus. But the designation were selected (because security reasons) almost randomly. Maybe this web should help you:

www.armscontrol.ru... n_bureau.htm

Second - project of what later become MiG-25 is known as E-155 (or Ye-155 in engish). There is no connection between E-155 and E-152 (as Waynos wrote). Here is the list of all subversions. Some of them have picture on my web:

www.hitechweb.szm.sk...

E-155 - basic project designation (alternatives with fixed wing, VG, etc....)
E-155P - basic fighter configuration from E-155
E-155R - basic reconnaissance configuration from E-155
E-155N (Nositel) - launch platform for aerobalistic rocket from OKB Raduga (unrealised)
E-155RD - reconnaissance variant with UAV drone (something like Lockheed M-21/D-21 - unrealised)
E-155Sch - version for ground attacks in low altitudes (unrealised)
E-155SchR - combined attack/reconnaissance version (unrealised)
E-155 SSBJ - project of supersonic business jet from MiG-25 (unrealised)
E-155R-1 - first prototype of reconnaissance MiG-25 with funny wing (Waynos posted picture of it)

In 1972 began work on much improved version of MiG-25, that later received designation MiG-31 Foxhound. It was E-155MP (Modifikovaniy Pjerechvatchik), presented in five versions:

1. VG wing from MiG-23, F-4 like canopy, tail surfaces from MiG-23
2. Izdelije 518-31
3. Izdelije 518-55 - hybrid between MiG-25 and later MiG-31 with LERX
4. Izdelije 83 - selected configuration, todays MiG-31
5. E-158 - probably stealthy version with no tail surfaces with two Tumanskij engines above the fuselage and ogival wing like on Tu-144

One variation was E-155MF (Modifikovaniy Frontovoj) with side by side cockpit, intedned for ground attacks. It was not realised.



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 04:04 AM
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Continue...

Planeman: some other pics of MiG-29 TPFI together with my drawing are here:

www.hitechweb.szm.sk...

Emile - I have a lot of british VG projects, but I think that you mean this:



external image
link to full sized image www.hitechweb2.szm.sk...

(mod edit to reduce large image)

[edit on 17-2-2006 by pantha]



posted on Feb, 11 2006 @ 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by danwild6
As I recall from watching wings of the Red Star the Mig-25 was a development to counter the XB-70 Valkyrie. Which was suppose to be a Mach-3 intercontinental bomber. So naturally the Soviets found it only prudent to develop a mach 3 interceptor.


It is the most famous fake about MiG-25. Main engineer in MiG at that time Belyakov disgorge this in his book. It was Lockheed A-12 and not CIA promoted XB-70, that was the reason of creating MiG-25.




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