Have you guys ever heard of Aleister Crowley?

reply to post by crowdedskies


I don't know why you're bringing up serial killers and convicted criminals. Are you aware that there are less than 100 serial killers in the U.S., yet at least 2 million psychopaths out there? The majority of them aren't locked up in prison, either, they're our teachers, preachers, dentists, doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc.. It doesn't matter that he kept to himself, what matters to be a psychopath is your view of the world and how you interact with it. His whole: be as you will, is VERY telling. It's without conscience. He may be able to rationalize such a stance quite well, but it would be lacking any decency or empathy.

Dude is definitely a psychopath. There's a lot of red-flags people should be aware of. Several scream out to me when I read some of his quotes. And yes, he is more influential than those he impressed in his time. His works live on, and young, impressionable people may be twisted because of his views.

As for him being the most wicked man on earth? I truly doubt that. There seems to be a lot of very, very sick individuals in this world. He's not THAT impressive!

[edit on 26-7-2010 by unityemissions]

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by crowdedskies

 

I don't know why you're bringing up serial killers and convicted criminals. Are you aware that there are less than 100 serial killers in the U.S., yet at least 2 million psychopaths out there? The majority of them aren't locked up in prison, either, they're our teachers, preachers, dentists, doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc..

This is pretty strong stuff. So, the pillars of society - Doctors, lawyers , politicians, etc - are psychopaths that should be locked up ? -2 million of them .....

100 serial killer is the USA is a small number , according to you

You are in no position to make a judgement on Crowley.



[edit on 26-7-2010 by crowdedskies]

[edit on 26-7-2010 by crowdedskies]

[edit on 26-7-2010 by crowdedskies]

Originally posted by crowdedskies

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by crowdedskies

 

I don't know why you're bringing up serial killers and convicted criminals. Are you aware that there are less than 100 serial killers in the U.S., yet at least 2 million psychopaths out there? The majority of them aren't locked up in prison, either, they're our teachers, preachers, dentists, doctors, lawyers, politicians, etc..

This is pretty strong stuff. So, the pillars of society - Doctors, lawyers , politicians, etc - are psychopaths that should be locked up ? -2 million of them .....

What? Did you even read what I wrote? Did I say that ALL doctors, etc, are psychopaths? Did I say that ALL psychopaths should be locked up? I'll save you some time.. NO I didn't.

100 serial killer is the USA is a small number , according to you ? There should not even be one.

You're twisting my words by taking them out of context. Please don't use such tactics, it makes you look like an idiot! I dais there were less than 100 serial killers in the U.S. compared to over 2 million psychopaths.

You are in no position to make a judgement on Crowley.

Yes, I hear this same crap a lot. If you're not a licensed professional, you shouldn't deem someone to be this or that. That's pretty pathetic, imo. I've read a lot of psychology books, and a lot of tidbits online about psychopaths. I know exactly what to look for, and feel fairly confident in being able to tell who is without conscience and who isn't most of the time. It's not that difficult to see once you realize what you're looking for.

Crowley was a psychopath.

Originally posted by unityemissions
I just think he was a gifted psychopath.

Do what you will?? That is the whole of law??

Can anyone else see how psychopathic this is?

Entirely immoral.

i agree whole heartedly people shouldnt do what they will...they should be treated liek a dog and told exactly what to do for they dont deserve any independant thought at all...(your words not mine)

i just said what u said but in plain out other words

now that is psychopath

[edit on 26-7-2010 by metalholic]

Originally posted by unityemissions
I just think he was a gifted psychopath.

Do what you will?? That is the whole of law??

Can anyone else see how psychopathic this is?

Entirely immoral.

Quite well said for a person that has absolutely no idea what the words mean.

You should try reading Crowley's commentary on the Book of the Law. It should explain a few things to you.

Originally posted by The_Doctor
Crowley and others like him are insane. The guy thought he was the prince of darkness like seriously.

Yes it will bring you down insane, there is no sanity left.
He did go into it, there is no way out if you dig deep, it's what unbalanced power will do to you, it will turn you evil. Never desire evil and never let evil take control of you.

Originally posted by metalholic

Originally posted by unityemissions
I just think he was a gifted psychopath.

Do what you will?? That is the whole of law??

Can anyone else see how psychopathic this is?

Entirely immoral.

i agree whole heartedly people shouldnt do what they will...they should be treated liek a dog and told exactly what to do for they dont deserve any independant thought at all...(your words not mine)

i just said what u said but in plain out other words

now that is psychopath

[edit on 26-7-2010 by metalholic]

Not my words.

My oh my there's quite a few psychopaths on this board.

reply to post by AnthraAndromda


Which words?

Do

or

as

or

you

or

will

???


I think that I've got a fair grasp on what those words are.

Like I said, dude can probably rationalize the phrase quite well, but it's totally without conscience.

reply to post by unityemissions


not your words? did i miss something or did you NOT say or try to quote crowley which isnt the entire quoute to begin with do what thou wilt that is the whole of the law and then say oh my can anyone else see the psycoeness in this? did you nto basically say that? if not maybe you dont think before you speak or think before you type idk not my problem but i got proof that YOU did type this!

maybe you dont understand the quote idk but i'll sure try to help! do what thou wilt this means do what you will do what you want do whatever your heart desires that is the law means that is the law of the universe....the law of this earth and any other planet in this universe and there after is to do what one desires which is ones will!

in the book of the law it warns only intelligent people will understand this and even some scholars will struggle to grasp it...talking about the book!

so to see hey this man says do what thou wilt that is the law he must be psychopath...this is saying hey we all need to be sheep and let the shepherd tell us when to sh*t and where to sh*t!

no independant thought this is against the law! -me-

reply to post by metalholic


Yes, I said that.

No, it has no relation, whatsoever, to what you said about me.

You're taking something I said, and twisting it, rather hardcore, to fit your belief about me.

Why?

...so yeah, that's NOT MY WORDS. Please guys, stop saying stuff out of context, it's annoying.

these words ---->

Originally posted by metalholic
i agree whole heartedly people shouldnt do what they will...they should be treated liek a dog and told exactly what to do for they dont deserve any independant thought at all...(your words not mine)

reply to post by unityemissions


you do realise that that is the same crap unintelligent people claim upon anti social type people or people who dont use there life to help make other peoples lives more enjoyable or try to join the masses in thought and living...

how do i know this? b/c i live my life to make myself happy and to make myself happy is to learn and make my own decisions based on what i believe is logical like crowley this goes against the common man...

i say who cares about what the common man believes he knows nothing anyway except what the news tells him...and the news is just entertainment...as said by a supreme court judge! so therefore the common man knows nothing!

[edit on 26-7-2010 by metalholic]

Originally posted by metalholic
reply to post by unityemissions

 

you do realise that that is the same crap unintelligent people claim upon anti social type people or people who dont use there life to help make other peoples lives more enjoyable or try to join the masses in thought and living...

What is? I haven't a clue how intelligent you are, but I test in the gifted range. What is it that I said which makes you state this? I think you're unfairly exaggerating the words I used.

how do i know this? b/c i live my life to make myself happy and to make myself happy is to learn and make my own decisions based on what i believe is logical like crowley this goes against the common man...

Great! You think I fit into the norm? because I don't. Did I ever say I did, or say other people must? No, I didn't but for some reason something that I wrote made you think along these lines. What was it? I'm confused.

Listen, logic is great, but if you don't have empathy to back up logic, you're either autistic or a psychopath. I hope you're also integrating your emotions with your logical analysis to arrive at your decisions, otherwise you're definitely falling short on the human experience and capabilities.

i say who cares about what the common man believes he knows nothing anyway except what the news tells him...and the news is just entertainment...as said by a supreme court judge! so therefore the common man knows nothing!

[edit on 26-7-2010 by metalholic]

Well I certainly care what the common man believes, because the common man is the majority. If the common man is stuck in a rut (as is currently the case!) , he will likely drag everyone else down to some extent.

Yes, news is just entertainment. Yes, the courts are rigged .. I fail to see how these few things you mentioned mean the common man knows nothing. The common man has common sense, which is far superior to what most "brilliant" people have as intelligence, imo.

reply to post by unityemissions


i'm trying to point out that aleister crowley never got away with murder b/c he never murdered anyone...aleister crowley never got away with child molestation b/c he didnt molest anyone!

my main case in point...either someone took him to literal or he wasnt up front with what he was saying so to leave the reader discombobulated and come up with assumptions of a mad man!

i myself have said things that got taken completely out of context even with stating it clear as day...some people arent capable sometimes!

crowley is a man people love to hate and make a bad guy out of but sadly crowley is a prophet in wolves clothing!

reply to post by metalholic


A prophet?



Okay, we'll just stop there.

I don't like to do religious debates, and so wish to respect your beliefs.

Take care, man.

reply to post by unityemissions


your laughing that suggests you never read book of the law and if so didnt catch the clues in it..it talks about a house..not a house like a building but a cluster of stars and or planets kinda like a zodiacal house if you will the house is called 418! the description in the book matches the picture that the hubble telescope took of it...

the book was authored to crowley by an alien in cairo egypt of 1904 supposively! if u read it it tells this!...

it talks about the popularity of the wireless...sorry i might have grown up on a diff planet but there was wireless in 1904???? oh and it talks about the popularity of guessing competitions..game shows anyone?

theres more the book suggests that somethings the book talks about hasnt happened yet and certain things wont be proven until later...hmmm!

i jus mentioned a couple things! they couldnt have been spot on in 1904 unless there was some supreme intelligence helpin him!

love is the law...basically the samething the bible tries to tell u! love is the law love is the key!

reply to post by metalholic


No I haven't read the book. I know better. A psychopath will tell you 99 truths to implant 1 lie. I understand he's highly intelligent, so won't even bother trying to decipher truth from fallacy.

Besides your first mention, everything is really easily explainable. Crowly was highly intelligent. He had a bit of genius. Genius can see the future. It's really not that difficult. I've foreseen many things that have already come to pass, and still foresee much of the future that's pretty much set in stone from my point in view. Anyways, I'm not going to take up this thread with you debating Crowley. If you hold him as a prophet, you're obviously biased. There's no real point in speaking any further of this.

reply to post by unityemissions


oh i can be swayed...dont think i cannot but its gonna take more then the sheep's opinion of him!

besides i read the book and only gave a few examples one irrefeutible is what the books speaks of that can only be proven or seen with the hubble telescope no intelligent man could have predicted or forseen that!

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can beleive something and comment, yet have no understanding of what they beleive or somment upon.

In this case it is the simple phrase "Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the Law. They leave out the rest ; "Love is the Law, Love under Will."

Here is a bit of Crowley's commentary on this

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."

"There is no Law beyond Do what thou wilt."

[THELEMA] -- Thelema -- means Will.
The Key to this Message is this word -- Will. The first obvious meaning of this Law is confirmed by antithesis; "The Word of Sin is Restriction."
Again: "... thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that, and no other shall say nay. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."
Take this carefully; it seems to imply a theory that if every man and every woman did his and her will -- the true Will -- there would be no clashing. "Every man and every woman is a star.", and each star moves in an appointed path without interference. There is plenty of room for all; it is only disorder that creates confusion.
From these considerations it should be clear that "Do what thou wilt" does not mean "Do what you like." It is the apotheosis of Freedom; but it is also the strictest possible bond.
Do what thou wilt -- then do nothing else. Let nothing deflect thee from that austere and holy task. Liberty is absolute to do thy will; but seek to do any other thing whatever, and instantly obstacles must arise. Every act that is not in definite course of that one orbit is erratic, an hindrance. Will must not be two, but one.
Note further that this will is not only to be pure, that is, single, as explained above, but also "unassuaged of purpose". This strange phrase must give us pause. It may mean that any purpose in the will would damp ti; clearly, the "lust of result" is a thing from which it must be delivered.
But the phrase may also be interpreted as if it read "with purpose unassuaged" -- i.e. with tireless energy. The conception is, therefore, of an eternal motion, infinite and unalterable. It is Nirvana, only dynamic instead of static -- and this comes to the same thing in the end.
The obvious practical task of the magician is then to discover what his will really is, so that he may do it in this manner, and he can best accomplish this by the practices of Liber Thisarb (see Equinox I, VII, 105) or such others as may from one time to another be appointed.
It should not be perfectly simple for everybody to understand the Message of the Master Therion.
Thou must (1) Find out what is thy Will, (2) Do that Will with (a) one-pointedness, (b) detachment, (c) peace.
Then, and then only, art thou in harmony with the Movement of Things, thy will part of, and therefore equal to, the Will of God. And since the will is but the dynamic aspect of the self, and since two different selves could not possess identical wills; then, if thy will be God's will, Thou art That.
There is but one other word to explain. Elsewhere it is written -- surely for our great comfort -- "Love is the law, love under will."
This is to be taken as meaning that while Will is the Law, the nature of that Will is Love. But this Love is as it were a by-product of that Will; it does not contradict or supersede that Will; and if apparent contradiction should arise in any crisis, it is the Will that can guide us aright. Lo, while in the Book of the Law is much Love, there is no word of Sentimentality. Hate itself is almost like Love! Fighting most certainly is Love! "As brothers fight ye!" All the many races of the world understand this. The Love of Liber Legis is always bold, Virile, even orgiastic. There is delicacy, but it is the delicacy of strength. Mighty and terrible and glorious as it is, however, it is but the pennon upon the sacred lance of Will, the damascened inscription upon the swords of the knightmonks of Thelema.

Love is the law, love under will."

Commentary on Liber AL vel Legis Chapter 1; by Aleister Crowley

(This book is as far as I know Out of Print. However there may be copies available.)

And again;

AL I,41: "The word of Sin is Restriction. O man! refuse not thy wife, if she will! O lover, if thou wilt, depart! There is no bond that can unite the divided but love: all else is a curse. Accursed! Accursed be it to the aeons! Hell."

THE OLD COMMENT.

Interference with the will of another is the great sin, for it predicates the existence of another. In this duality sorrow consists. I think that possibly the higher meaning is still attributed to will.

(Ibid)

As one can clearly see, Crowley did not intend for "Do what thou wilt" to mean "Do what you want", he even said so in so many words. He also intended the idea of restriction to be the ultimate evil, which it clearly is. If One does whatever they "feel" then there is a good likelyhood that they will cross the path of another, and, in some way cause restriction. As Crowley himself said, this is not acceptable.

Those of you who do not understand this, who condemn Crowley without any sort of understanding, are, in the eyes of a Thelemite, "Sinners", for you are restricting not only those around you, but yourself, and the world. We can only hope that oneday you will get off your lazi behinds, and read a little, and make some attempt to understand the world around you.

Love is the Law, Love under Will.

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by metalholic

 

No I haven't read the book. I know better. A psychopath will tell you 99 truths to implant 1 lie. I understand he's highly intelligent, so won't even bother trying to decipher truth from fallacy.

Besides your first mention, everything is really easily explainable. Crowly was highly intelligent. He had a bit of genius. Genius can see the future. It's really not that difficult. I've foreseen many things that have already come to pass, and still foresee much of the future that's pretty much set in stone from my point in view. Anyways, I'm not going to take up this thread with you debating Crowley. If you hold him as a prophet, you're obviously biased. There's no real point in speaking any further of this.

And you don't see the folly of you words! Alas. Your words also show your own bias. If One is not willing to seek out the truth, then he will never find it. All that he will have is his own delusions, and misgivings.

We all need to seek the truth. Truth is all we have that is real.

Originally posted by AnthraAndromda
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can beleive something and comment, yet have no understanding of what they beleive or somment upon.

In this case it is the simple phrase "Do what thou wilt, shall be the whole of the Law. They leave out the rest ; "Love is the Law, Love under Will."

Here is a bit of Crowley's commentary on this

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."

"There is no Law beyond Do what thou wilt."

[THELEMA] -- Thelema -- means Will.
The Key to this Message is this word -- Will. The first obvious meaning of this Law is confirmed by antithesis; "The Word of Sin is Restriction."
Again: "... thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that, and no other shall say nay. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect."
Take this carefully; it seems to imply a theory that if every man and every woman did his and her will -- the true Will -- there would be no clashing. "Every man and every woman is a star.", and each star moves in an appointed path without interference. There is plenty of room for all; it is only disorder that creates confusion.
From these considerations it should be clear that "Do what thou wilt" does not mean "Do what you like." It is the apotheosis of Freedom; but it is also the strictest possible bond.
Do what thou wilt -- then do nothing else. Let nothing deflect thee from that austere and holy task. Liberty is absolute to do thy will; but seek to do any other thing whatever, and instantly obstacles must arise. Every act that is not in definite course of that one orbit is erratic, an hindrance. Will must not be two, but one.
Note further that this will is not only to be pure, that is, single, as explained above, but also "unassuaged of purpose". This strange phrase must give us pause. It may mean that any purpose in the will would damp ti; clearly, the "lust of result" is a thing from which it must be delivered.
But the phrase may also be interpreted as if it read "with purpose unassuaged" -- i.e. with tireless energy. The conception is, therefore, of an eternal motion, infinite and unalterable. It is Nirvana, only dynamic instead of static -- and this comes to the same thing in the end.
The obvious practical task of the magician is then to discover what his will really is, so that he may do it in this manner, and he can best accomplish this by the practices of Liber Thisarb (see Equinox I, VII, 105) or such others as may from one time to another be appointed.
It should not be perfectly simple for everybody to understand the Message of the Master Therion.
Thou must (1) Find out what is thy Will, (2) Do that Will with (a) one-pointedness, (b) detachment, (c) peace.
Then, and then only, art thou in harmony with the Movement of Things, thy will part of, and therefore equal to, the Will of God. And since the will is but the dynamic aspect of the self, and since two different selves could not possess identical wills; then, if thy will be God's will, Thou art That.
There is but one other word to explain. Elsewhere it is written -- surely for our great comfort -- "Love is the law, love under will."
This is to be taken as meaning that while Will is the Law, the nature of that Will is Love. But this Love is as it were a by-product of that Will; it does not contradict or supersede that Will; and if apparent contradiction should arise in any crisis, it is the Will that can guide us aright. Lo, while in the Book of the Law is much Love, there is no word of Sentimentality. Hate itself is almost like Love! Fighting most certainly is Love! "As brothers fight ye!" All the many races of the world understand this. The Love of Liber Legis is always bold, Virile, even orgiastic. There is delicacy, but it is the delicacy of strength. Mighty and terrible and glorious as it is, however, it is but the pennon upon the sacred lance of Will, the damascened inscription upon the swords of the knightmonks of Thelema.

Love is the law, love under will."

Commentary on Liber AL vel Legis Chapter 1; by Aleister Crowley

(This book is as far as I know Out of Print. However there may be copies available.)

And again;

AL I,41: "The word of Sin is Restriction. O man! refuse not thy wife, if she will! O lover, if thou wilt, depart! There is no bond that can unite the divided but love: all else is a curse. Accursed! Accursed be it to the aeons! Hell."

THE OLD COMMENT.

Interference with the will of another is the great sin, for it predicates the existence of another. In this duality sorrow consists. I think that possibly the higher meaning is still attributed to will.

(Ibid)

As one can clearly see, Crowley did not intend for "Do what thou wilt" to mean "Do what you want", he even said so in so many words. He also intended the idea of restriction to be the ultimate evil, which it clearly is. If One does whatever they "feel" then there is a good likelyhood that they will cross the path of another, and, in some way cause restriction. As Crowley himself said, this is not acceptable.

What you say is insane. The restriction that you speak of is the conscience. To think of the conscience as evil is phucked up in the head. It's turning a right into a wrong ... it's psycho talk. Crowley obviously didn't have a conscience. I bet his notion on love is entirely warped into a rational, yet heartless approach.

Those of you who do not understand this, who condemn Crowley without any sort of understanding, are, in the eyes of a Thelemite, "Sinners", for you are restricting not only those around you, but yourself, and the world. We can only hope that oneday you will get off your lazi behinds, and read a little, and make some attempt to understand the world around you.

We all make mistakes. It's not the mistake which makes someone wrong, it's the inability to learn from one's mistakes.

Love is the Law, Love under Will.

I want nothing of this man's warped view on love.