Soldier shot by cop while on leave from Iraq

I really wish that were the case in my city. We have the biggest police force per-capita in the state. We also have an enormous drug problem. And all that I have met are very unpleasant. I do understand the rigors of a hard job, and being a cop in my city would definately fit that bill, but police should be of the utmost character IMO. This is not the case here. I wont even call the police if I need to.

In the last year my car has been broken into 3 times. My girlfriends twice. I have had three friends shot, one killed. We have had literally dozens of robberies since Christmas. All unsolved. The only badguy the police have caught is the guy who shot and killed a cop when they served him a warrant. I know so many people in jail for pot possesion, probation violation, public drunkeness, etc...Where are all the killers? Where are the crack dealers? Where are the child molestors?? The police are afraid of these people so they spend their time in the rich neighborhood busting rich kids with dime bags.

I personally detour through the ghettos when I have anything illegal on me because I know the odds of passing Mr. Officer are slim to none.

Is it just me, or should it be opposite?

I'm a bit late but wanted to comment on the original post that started the thread. We were just talking about use of force in class today, and if they show no resistance= no force allowed. This cop should definately lose his job, and probably go to prison. I mean, the situation has to exacalate pretty high to be able to use your baton even. And when you can use your baton, leg strikes are preferable as a baton can easily be just as deadly as a gun if the officer were to strike the abdomen or head hard enough. Ive missed a lot in this thread, I'll have to go back and read it through.

Luda's mention of leg strikes reminds me that police are not taught to shoot-to-wound, only to kill.

We have heard this same lame excuse time and time again.

Remember the guy with the knife in NO? Something like a dozen officers shot him multiple times and he only had a 3" knife! I know the humanitarian in me would have shot the hell otta his leg and PRESTO...threat neutralized, life saved.

We have seen this scenario multiple times. How many "suspects" were killed when a simple tazer or a leg shot would have sufficed?

Not that this case is even relevant to this fact, I still thought I would mention it since we are talking about crappy cop tactics.

Originally posted by DaFunk13
Luda's mention of leg strikes reminds me that police are not taught to shoot-to-wound, only to kill.

Yeah, when you shoot someone three times you're not looking to wound them. The video IMO doesn't give reason to use deadly force in this situation. There may be things not visible in the video that called for the use of deadly force but if there were I'm sure the police department would have said something as part of damage control.

Originally posted by DaFunk13
Yea, I too have had my door kicked in, dog shot, and house tossed for visiting the Garden of Weeden. The cops are abusive to a lot of people, not just minorities, this is true. However, there is no equal here. I have been in confrontations with police solo and with minority friends and I definately noticed a difference in tone and attitude in more than one occasion.

Wasp, the police here dont have to sic dogs on you, or shoot you and dump you off in the river. They are crooked in much more subtle ways. Like twisting your arm just a little too far. Or dropping a knee into your back. Or purposely breaking things in your car. Or just generally being too rough. And this is just the stuff done to my lily tail. Keep in mind I have 0 convictions and have been arrested a few times. I am not a criminal by any means.

Like I said before, I have heard a lot of stories from friends that would make you pale, but they dont need some white dude telling the world how racist and excessive police in the states are. Or at least the cops in my city.
Rodney King, the guy in NO, the guy on leave...they are all examples of what happens everyday in America.

Did anyone see the video of the guy being beaten in NO a few months ago? He was a 60 something year old teacher they claimed was drunk and abusive. He claims he hasnt drank in 20 years. The video shows this guy getting a gang initiation style beating. There were even spectators to the event that were yelling at the cops to stop.

I totally agree with your point, I was just pointing out alot of people only look at this from one point of view:race.

There's something in the mind of the average below 40 cop that is scary. Their lust, enjoyment and thirst for control over people seems comparable to the mentality of a rapist. It doesn't help when our cops and gov't go out of their way to dress these guys up like the lastest Spc. Op pic from Iraq, or average Blackwater Merc. This makes them feel even more powerful, thirsty for action, and agressive. Seems cops often forget they work FOR US.

I remember when I came home on leave once, some friends of mine threw a party for me at a local bar. Alot of the regular customers were coming up to me giving me thanks, which I thought was pretty cool, especially considering the treatment my father got when get came home on leave, during his era. But this one cop came up, to give thanks and respect and also ask some questions. I figured hey he brought me a beer why not? One of his first questions was "Arn't you excited to get back?" I gave him an odd look like he's being sarcastic before I reply "Hell No!" He actually said "You can't tell me you don't like that ----, I mean come on man, you get to push people around, shoot people without having to fill out reports, basically you get to do everything we can't." I was shocked, and disgusted. I said "Sir. The sad part is, you have it all backwards. Someone video tapes us kicking an Iraqi we're tried for war crimes no matter what the motive was, yet you guys get a paid vacation during your invesigation for shooting and/or beating unarmed suspects, and once your totally cleared which you guys always are you get promoted. I'm not now, nor will I ever be a sado-masochist like you, thanks for the beer, later."

His statments burned into my mind, this isn't just one cop saying this, it's every cop that walks around with the same attitude, and mental mindset as the cop I ran into, and the saddest part is-That's at least 75% of law enforcement right now.

[edit on 18-2-2006 by WithoutEqual]

No opposition here fellas.

Everyone with any sense agrees.

So why is it still like this. We cant even get the wussy nerds on ATS to deny this, so why not a massive overhaul of this whole system? Where do we start? It makes me insane with indifference, ya know?

Originally posted by Busymind
what was the reason for the cops to try and pull over the car in the first place? A search of the driver, victim and car revealed... nothing.

The car reportedly was going over 100 mph in a residential neighborhood.

Originally posted by WithoutEqual
But this one cop came up, to give thanks and respect and also ask some questions. I figured hey he brought me a beer why not? One of his first questions was "Arn't you excited to get back?" I gave him an odd look like he's being sarcastic before I reply "Hell No!" He actually said "You can't tell me you don't like that ----, I mean come on man, you get to push people around, shoot people without having to fill out reports, basically you get to do everything we can't."

Wow!!! That really happened? And this is what I am supposed to pull over voluntarily for?

You showed a lot of restraint - I would have went off on a very long lecture. I am stunned - you should have told him to join the Army. THen he could see that it isn't so beautiful when you're in someone elses sights.

To think I am paying cops who think pushing others around and shooting others is cool. And we're supposed to trust these?

You don't know if the cop that is pulling you over is good or thinks like this.

The cop needs to be on trial here, I know this has already been said, but it cannot be stressed enough. That is just murder, straight up.

Didnt kill him. Damn lucky.

I will think twice the next time I feel like doing 120. Or maybe I will think twice about pulling over...hehe.

Originally posted by DaFunk13
Or maybe I will think twice about pulling over...hehe.

See? I can see it now - running from the cops, getting caught, then being asked why you fled for doing 8 miles an hour over the spped limit. "I was afraid you were going to shoot me for no reason or beat me up."

It is understandable to flee if you did something wrong, but now some of us want to flee because we don't know what kind of cop is pulling us over. It is their own doing.

I have searched for any news on this subject to no avail.

Anyone know of any breaking news on this story?

Just out of curiousity, everyone here seems to agree that this was wrong... but I remember a while back in another thread a bunch of people saying the cops had every right to repeatedly taze a woman who was in her third term of pregnancy just for refusing to get out of her car... thus potentially killing the baby. I'm wondering if anyone remembers that here on ATS, and how this fits in with that POV, if at all. FWIW, I think it goes without saying that this event and that one were disgusting and tragic.

I do recall the incident. Another sickening event that has been swept under the rug.

You guys familiar with Mumia Abu Jamal? That will make you sick.

Originally posted by koji_KI remember a while back in another thread a bunch of people saying the cops had every right to repeatedly taze a woman who was in her third term of pregnancy just for refusing to get out of her car... thus potentially killing the baby. I'm wondering if anyone remembers that here on ATS, and how this fits in with that POV, if at all.

I don't remember this case, but did the baby die? Why did she get pulled over, and why did she refuse to get out of the car?

And just to point out that using a firearm on someone is considered deadly physical force, which should only be used when your life is in danger. Mace and tasers are considered non-lethal force and many court decisions have stated this is an acceptable use of force for failing to carry out a request from a police or peace officer to surrender, exit a vehicle, etc.

I have just stumbled across some good news regarding that cop shooting the MP on video tape:

On January 29, San Bernadino County sheriff's Deputy Ivory Webb, Jr. shot an unarmed Air Force MP, Elio Carrion after he tried to comply with Deputy webb's orders to "get up". After an FBI investigation and having upgraded the video tape, it is clear that Carrion was indeed complying with orders.

Now the San Bernadino District Attorney has brought charges of attempted voluntary manslaughter, which means that Webb could face up to 18 years in prison.

The District Attorney claims that this is the first time he has ever brought charges against an officer involved in an on-duty shooting.

www.latimes.com...

Apparently there is possibly still a bit of justice left somewhere in this world. I hope that this will set a new, and more reasonable trend for cops who shoot people indiscriminately, rather than the standard "paid administrative leave" that they have become accustomed to.

Although, I wonder if it could have something to do with the fact that the victim is still alive to testify (not to mention the video tape), and the fact that the victim is also in law enforcement. Perhaps Air Force MP ranks higher than street beat cop, and that had something to do with it?

I don't like to think that. I would rather like to think that some people in the judicial system are coming around and looking at things for what they are, not just who did it.

Strange also, I found this on some obscure (I think) blog. The original story was so highly publicized, but the follow-up seems to have been for the most part suppressed. The blog had a link to the above story I provided a link to.

[edit on 3/11/2006 by CyberKat]

[edit on 3/11/2006 by CyberKat]

Greetings Fellow Believers,

Shootings of suspects shouldn't be suprising to any of the visitors to ATS. Police officers around the country face situations that they can only react to depending on the situation.

I lived in Boise Idaho for 2 years, and befriended two people destined to find themselves on the wrong end of a gun--Scott and Mike.

Scott and Mike were driving around in a van looking for a house to break in to. A Boise police officer puller over the van Scott and Mike were in. Mike had a gun stashed in his sweatpants--and tried to pistol whip the police officer. Mike was shot and killed.

I do not know why Mike tried to shoot the police officer--but I offer this to visitors to ATS to form their own opinions of the situations that police officers face every day.

Could Mike still be alive if the officer handled the situation differently?

Jack of Scythes,

I do not understand your post, or how it relates to the particular situation that was brought up by the author of this thread. Are you being serious, and are suggesting that the cop was right in shooting the MP?

If so, the story you relate about Mike and Scott going to look for a house to burglerize, then Mike becoming hostile and physically attacking the cop is nothing even close to a cop shooting a man who is simply trying to comply with the deputy's orders. The MP could not help it if the cop's words came out wrong. He was trying to do as he heard the cop tell him to do. I don't believe that he ever came close to attacking or becoming physically violent with the cop at all.

I don't know if your story is true or not, but either way, it is like comparing apples and oranges to what the rest of the thread is about.

And to answer your question; of course Mike could and would still be alive if the office had handled the situation differently. The officer knew (hopefully) what he was signing on for when he decided to be a cop. Surely there are other means of controlling a hostile suspect other than outright killing him? If there isn't, then perhaps everyone ought to carry a gun at all times and shoot cops on sight, lest they be seen and shot first.

Please clarify what you are talking about?

Yah this shooting was caught on film... but how many others get shot by a cop for illegitimate reasons everyday that don't happen to get filmed and put on the news for 1 day?

Fact is, the cops are curropt.. they are very much so. Can we say Police State?

It's not just the cops, its the laws. The laws that back them and give them the power to do what they do.

The cops are not here to serve and protect, they are here to make the state money. They make that money by pulling people over for doing 5 miles over a set speed limit. A rediculous limit it is btw that a majority of people only follow when they see a cop. Actually to be safe, most ppl go 5 mph under the speed limit when a cop is behind them.. just ask a cop he will agree.

Speed enforcment abuse is not comparable to the illegal search and seisure that goes on everyday. Amazing that it happens considering that was a main reason this country was founded. Yes the colonists enjoyed tea, so what does Britian do? They tax it and make it a valuable enjoyment. This is the same thing that goes on with illegal drugs. Many people enjoy drugs just as the colonists ejoyed tea or as many enjoy alcohol (which has already been tried to be illegal).

What history is showing now is that illegal drugs are not illegal to "help" us as the government has claimed in the past that they are bad for us. The fact is illegal drugs are illegal because the state and the government makes more money off them as illegal. If an illegal drug became legal, one company would have its hands on the money from that product and the government would be out of buisness. When an illegal search and seisure raid happens the government doesn't just take the drugs to resell them (as they do), they also take all the money from the drug organization and their house, car, cat, and koolaid. It's buisness folks. The government is nothing more than a giant curropt buisness and thats stating the obvious.


Beware, soon he will take guns, one type of gun at a time will become illegal for profit and gain fo jo big bro.

moving to down the hall, continue there please...

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