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Islam is *not* the world's fastest growing religion

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posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 02:34 PM
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Islam is not the world's fastest growing religion, that is a HOAX. Here's why:

1)Muslim births are counted as "conversions"

2)Muslims kill alll those who apostasize from Islam

3) It's a distortion of the facts:




Mormons Are Fastest Growing Religion
By The 700 Club

CBN.com - Mormonism is the fastest growing faith group in American history according to "U.S. News & World Report," which reports that if present trends continue there could be 265 million members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) worldwide by 2080.

Mormons have launched a major expansion program to keep up with growth, opening 32 temples across the country this year. There are now 100 temples internationally, serving 11 million Mormons.

One reason for the LDS increase is that its message "strikes a spiritual resonance in people," Neal Maxwell, one of the church's elders, tells the newsweekly. Another, the magazine notes, is its aggressive missionary effort. Last year the church sent out almost 60,000 missionaries to 120 countries, where they won 306,000 converts.

LDS teaching emphasizes the church's commitment to conservative and family values, and downplays its past beliefs in polygamy and racism. Critics maintain while Mormons may use the same vocabulary as mainstream Christians that "they frequently attach radically different meaning to the terms," says the magazine.


Mormonism is the fastest growing religion in America, that source I gave you is non-friendly to Mormon theology.

Look at this:







Muslims are also clearly in the minority. Thus can 1 billion Muslims be wrong? The answer is "YES THEY CAN!"




Christianity: David B. Barrett's World Christian Encyclopedia (1994 update) gives an oft-cited figure of 1.9 billion Christians (or about 33% of the world population), and projected that by the year 2000 there will be 2.1 billion Christians in the world. The 2001 edition of the World Christian Encyclopedia stated there were 2.1 billion Christians in the world, or 33% of the total population. Regardless of the degree of accuracy of this figure, Christianity, if taken as a whole, is unarguably the largest world religion - the largest religion in the world. (Keep in mind that although Christianity is the world's largest religion, it is an umbrella term that comprises many different branches and denominations.)


Also, Christianity (particularly Evangelical denominations, not too much for Roman Catholics which are dropping in numbers) has far larger conversion rates than Islam (if converts are counted as precisely that- converts). The figures thus prove that Christianity will under no means be "out of the way" for Islam. On the contrary- Islam will be the one getting out of the way. Either way, I believe God work's with a remnant and that denominations which take the NT theology seriously are sorely lacking. Just keeping people honest.

[edit on 5-2-2006 by Nakash]

[edit on 5-2-2006 by Nakash]

[edit on 12-2-2006 by John bull 1]




posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 05:33 PM
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Nice information, Nakash. I modified your graph a bit:



This is more how I see it.

Also, notice which side of the pie is bringing nukes into the world? Israel hid them for years. Christians made it all possible, building a nuclear weapon only to fight the evil-Christian, Adolf. Or was he the anti-Christ? ...I get so confused when the only terms allowed to us in the english language revolve around Abraham's kids. Oh but the Catholics did not support Hitler, did they?

Isn't it funny how much time Abraham's loyalists spend crushing and maiming eachother? Seems like the rest of the world might like to just let his memory go, and focus on political or technological solutions to the world's problems.

I do adore their prophets/messiahs and so forth, but the fruit is rotten. You're making a point about how supposedly aggressive Islam is, but you're missing the larger point, IMO.

Think about this:

If the children of Abraham drop their insistance on his holiness (exclusive holiness, that is), then perhaps the Christians could relax the Jewish aspect of Jesus' story and also admit that his story bears a lot in common with that of Prometheus.

You remember Greece, right? They existed before Rome, before Christ and before Stalin. Their traditional enemies were the Assyrians/Persians, who took the Isaacian-half of Abraham's tribe captive six centuries before Jesus's death, and eight centuries before anyone ever even wrote about Jesus.

I like this thread and I welcome all great ATS minds to join in. I openly wonder if there can be a pan-religious solution to what appears to be escalating madness on Earth. Let's have everyone on ATS identify which side of the graph they feel is responsible for the current mess.

[BTW, I thought I'd rotate this pie chart and make it look like pac-man, complete with teeth, but it's not my style to go overboard. Subtle is always better.]



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 05:43 PM
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Smallpeeps, great post. Great graph too!


I bet you can guess which side of the pac man most sensible people fall into.


I say let 'em have the holy land, all of 'em, Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Let them have it, and let them bleed for it, and let them die for it. Put it on PPV and I might watch, otherwise I couldn't care less.

The ground where I live isn't 'holy', but it supports life and nobody has ever tried to kill somebody else for control of it. Just how I like it.


Buncha maniacs living in the past and ruining the future. Senseless, truly...



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 06:11 PM
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Your thread title is not supported by your post.

Your first source says that Islam is not the fastest growing religion in America, and your other source says that Islam is not the Largest religion in the world.

While it may be true that Islam is not the fastest growing religion in America, nor that is it the largest in the world it is the Fastest Growing In The World.

I'm sure someone else can post some links supporting this, or you can Google on your own.

IGNORANCE DENIED!



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 06:37 PM
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Archangel, well said.
I couldn't be bothered to dispute the original material, since I was so amused by smallpeeps' graph.


Indeed, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. This is due to a birth rate twice that of Christians. Christians do out-convert Islam though. That doesn't make Christianity the fastest-growing though, it just is what it is, a measure of conversions.

Here's a link to CNN saying Islam is the fastest growing (in numbers). Islam does over-represent itself, but we have to assume Christians do also. After all, it's a big competition.


www.cnn.com...



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 06:46 PM
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Islam, the Religion of Ease

[removed gigantic cut and paste: please do not take the copyrighted work of others and present it as your own -nygdan]


[edit on 6-2-2006 by Nygdan]



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 10:48 PM
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jollyroger.com...

Glad to see the originality in thought. No, really; keep up the great work!




Don't go away mad.....


*Directed at Hana*

[edit on 5-2-2006 by Thomas Crowne]



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps
Nice information, Nakash. I modified your graph a bit:




Can I inquire what motive do you have in calling on side of the graph
"piss-ass"?? !
sarcasm or genuine opinion?



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3

Can I inquire what motive do you have in calling on side of the graph
"piss-ass"?? !
sarcasm or genuine opinion?


I believe he wrote "PISS-POOR"...not piss-ass.

And if you read his post, (the one about thinking how all the people who worship that god fellow are maniacs), you'd realize he's a "PISS-POOR" heathen...as I am.


And I agree. Can us heathens get a one way ticket to another life-supporting planet?



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 11:46 PM
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Ah, now that I've got some top ATS minds on this thread I can throw subtle out the window.



WyrdeOne: Man are we on the same page. The land under my feet is some of the prettiest America has to offer. In fact, the native Americans here think this land IS holy, and so do I.

Too bad we're all piss-poor.



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 11:54 PM
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sorry, I misread..
But really, do those who are in this piss-poor section also include moderate/secular jews,muslims, christians?Those who don't follow the more "fervent" versions of their religions..



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps
Ah, now that I've got some top ATS minds on this thread I can throw subtle out the window.



WyrdeOne: Man are we on the same page.



Every now and then a post comes along and re-instates my faith in mankind


WyrdeOne and yourself have made my day
It's truly refreshing to read you both
... and the teeth were a lovely touch



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 12:36 AM
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Man are we on the same page. The land under my feet is some of the prettiest America has to offer. In fact, the native Americans here think this land IS holy, and so do I.


We could be neighbors.


The animation was brilliant! I laughed out loud.
Way to make my night too.

It really does feel that way, doesn't it? It's not just eating us piss-poor heathens though, it's eating itself! I hold out hope that the sickness inside will eventually prove fatal to the entire organism. Maybe something can grow in the decay...

Competition between tribes and nations was necessary, historically, but technology has essentially given us the freedom to eliminate that pressure. Instead we have turned around and INCREASED it. What gives?

It's so bizarre how humanity operates. We've never been so close to literally creating paradise on earth, and conversely, we've never been closer to creating a proper, smoking, brimstone Hell. Seriously, what gives?







[edit on 6-2-2006 by WyrdeOne]



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne

The ground where I live isn't 'holy', but it supports life and nobody has ever tried to kill somebody else for control of it. Just how I like it.


Buncha maniacs living in the past and ruining the future. Senseless, truly...


Islam claims the entire earth (you live on Muslim ground, especially if any Muslim has ever set foot in your country), by definition there can be no permanent peace with the "House of War," only a temporary truce until it is in their advantage to go on the offensive again. Even secularists are coming to the conclusion that allowing Muslims into the West is a mistake:

www.rense.com...



[edit on 6-2-2006 by Paul of Nisbis]



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by Nakash
1)Muslim births are counted as "conversions"

? Where? Regardless, the birthrate should be included in the growth of a religion.
I've actually read a couple of sources about this and Islam has the fastest growth rate overall, however its meaningless and there are other factors that are important to look at.


2)Muslims kill alll those who apostasize from Islam

Utterly false. Just look at the B'hai faith. True, the iranian government wasn't friendly torwards them, but they weren't exterminated and they spread throughout the islamic dominion.



Mormonism is the fastest growing faith group in American history

I thougth we were talking about on the planet, not in one particular country on the planet.


Muslims are also clearly in the minority

No one claims that they aren't. How is this a conspiracy?



On the growth of religions around the world:
www.bible.ca...


For 1990-2000 they give the total growth rate as:
Muslims: 2.13
Christians: 1.36
Ba'hi: 2.28
"High Spritists": 2.53
Afro-carb religionists: 3.30

This is the highest growth rate for that period for a single religion.

Islam, I would caution, is made up of a lot of different sects that sometimes don't consider other sects to be islamic, and similarly christianity is made up of lots of denominations that don't consider large portions of other christians to be 'christers'.

I should also note that that table includes yezidis and druze as "muslims", which they clearly are not.

In terms of raw conversions, which can be seen as 'taking from the other side', 2.5 billion people converted to one type of christianity or another in the 1999-2000 period, while 865,558 people converted to one form of islam or another.

Also, while Islam has the highest growth rate of the big religions, rates are subject to change and:

There are more new Christians added to the world population than any other religion on earth every day.




But what does any of this matter? The growth rate of a religion, even if we just look at conversions, is meaningless.


[edit on 6-2-2006 by Nygdan]



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
sorry, I misread..
But really, do those who are in this piss-poor section also include moderate/secular jews,muslims, christians?Those who don't follow the more "fervent" versions of their religions..

Good question Daedalus.

I put the piss-poor part in there because I'm thinking of the religions that care less about money and commericalism. I'm thinking of the slices that say "traditional chinese" and "buddhist" and "hindu", etc. Now, I'm not saying there aren't atheists or Hindus or buddhists who are wealthy, but which side of the pie above is organized to convert the other?

Why, it's the side that has the power, wealth and utter global hegemony. Of course, Christians will hate me for lumping them in with Islam, but they also seem quite blind to the ring that's in their nose. They're being lead toward crusadist ideaology, I think. But notice how the world's problems are always rotating around the Abraham side of the pie? They're like three disruptive siblings, rolling around fighting in the living room of planet earth. They're breaking coffee tables and destroying the place. Too bad mom's not home or she'd tell them to sit down and shut up.

Comments are welcome of course. What do you think is the solution, considering NONE of Abe's Children will ever A: behave, B: share their wealth, or C: abandon belief in Abraham's original (and exclusive) channel to God?




[Originally posted by ImJaded
Every now and then a post comes along and re-instates my faith in mankind


WyrdeOne and yourself have made my day
It's truly refreshing to read you both
... and the teeth were a lovely touch


Thanks Jaded! Imagine my own giddiness at making my ATS comrades chuckle. There's nothing better in the world.



Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Competition between tribes and nations was necessary, historically, but technology has essentially given us the freedom to eliminate that pressure. Instead we have turned around and INCREASED it. What gives?

You raise excellent points. Technology should have delivered humans to an easier life. We have accepted a consumeristic society in exchange for a society of empowerment.

One thing tho: I do not believe Pac Man will eat the other half. There will be something that prevents it, and that thing could be a disintegration from within as you insightfully said.

Lord knows there are plenty of acceptable belief systems that do not require global hegemony, codified theocratic law, or cattle-like treatment of females. I think Earth will just move onto one of thoise, once this Abraham madness eats itself.



It's so bizarre how humanity operates. We've never been so close to literally creating paradise on earth, and conversely, we've never been closer to creating a proper, smoking, brimstone Hell. Seriously, what gives?

Global hypnosis? I'm lacking a better answer than that.

When I was a little kid, my parents raised me a s Jehovah Witness. I knocked on doors, working for a zionist church in America that wants "Armageddon" to come ASAP. In fact, the Jehovah Wit's are listed under the "Christian" pie piece above, but in fact, they are far more jewish --more like an orderly lower class of obedient goyim as described in the talmud. But, it's still the Abrahamic posse championing Jesus' father, YHWH.

Point is, while I've got no prob's with JWs, I DO have a problem with their utter servility and lack of critical thought. Mormons are similarly unreachable, once they have passed under the veil of belief. So what's happening in these people's heads? I think humans are following their natural course, which is to involve themselves with spirits in order to gain power, comfort or structure. Mormons for sure, feel a personal burning in their breast, or so I'm told. JW's worship more through ritual, but as the Gita says, "By ritual, the gods are nourished."

I think there are powerful spirits which operate in all three of the Abrahamic tribal strands, and that these act to keep millions of people believing in them. So answer #1 is that it's spirit possession on a massive scale. It's as if humans are hypnotized by spiritual structures, and they obediently follow them without any thought of their own.

But then there's also answer #2 which is simple loyalty to the group. When I was a young JW, handing out Watchtower magazines at age five, I didn't believe in what I was doing, but I was tacitly prevented from questioning the system due to love for my family and friends. Once I saw that such love was false, it was easy to give them the finger and walk away, but before I saw that, I really felt like I needed to stay inside to "help" them or to stay involved with their lives. I loved them, you know? So a lot of it is simply due to the real love which binds people, at least in my own personal experience.

In fact, I think most of the people who are on the Abrahamic side of the pie, are similarly not aware of their own brainwashing. As a JW, it's easy to come out into the world and to THEN observe that you were brainwashed. People have praised me for this feat saying, "The JW church is like a tar pit but you somehow got out!" ...But then, aren't most belief systems like tar pits? Don't we always have to check our loyalties?

I have learned that like Jesse the Body Ventura said, religion is a sham and a crutch for the weak minded. It really serves as a crippling crutch when we ourselves, humans, are divine. If a person is simply a faithful believer in Christ, they may not be able to see that the WHOLE of Abraham's tribe is moving toward another brawl, including the Christians.

One things for sure: The relative parts of Abraham's tribe DO want to subdue each other, more than anything on Earth.



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 03:54 PM
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I'm always puzzled by the arguments about which religion is growing fastest, or which one is biggest - as if popularity somehow has relevence on what is true.

Sure, it's interesting to know, and makes a good cocktail party topic, but what other relevance does it have?

There are hundreds (thousands?) of Christian sects, many of which do not consider others to be True Christians, yet when it comes time for a head count suddenly it's ok to count those other poor deceived souls worshipping a false Christ as brothers.

The same is true of Islam. There are multiple sects of Budhhism as well, or Taoism, etc.

Yet, people (including secularists) will crunch the numbers in whatever way makes their beliefs come out on top. So, when protestants want to show that their beliefs are dominant, or that they have the largest growth in absolute numbers, they include Catholics in the head counts. When Muslims want to show they are growing fastes, they look at statistics over 50 years periods and include competeng sects. Mormons concentrate on % increases. Pagans count their statistics based on the fraction of 16-20 year old girls converting, etc.

Personally, I know that my beliefs are superior, because I have a 100% retention rate year over year of believing whatever I believe.



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 11:02 PM
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The question is: Is Islam growing faster? The original poster says, "No! Mormons are!"

I am just one human who was once an active "preacher", so it's from this perspective that I approach the question. It seems like both of them are growing, as are the big Abrahamic line tribes.

If you love Jesus, and think he could easily have been born both messianic, and also African or Asian, would other Christians support this view? Was it his crucifixion that mattered, or his lineage?

Did Jesus have to come through the line from Isaac, Jesse, David, etc? Because if so, I'd say the worship of Jesus channels mental fuel toward YHWH, regardless of how you frame Jesus (Son of YHWH) in your mind. Or was it the crucifixion which proves him? Could he have been a perfect ethiopian man and also have redeemed mankind? (or whatever)

The idea that one has to cause one's religion to "grow" in order for it to have meaning, is silly to me. Why does a religion need to preach at all? Isn't the only reason for such "preaching" behavior, to create converts? Why else would any church need to send out proseltyzers or missionaries? I am sure Muslims send out conversion-squads just like Mormons and JWs do. I don't know what they're called.

It is the parent, who moderates the flow of religion, into the house. Also what flavor that religion takes. If parents "sell" their family to a religion, they agree to raise their infants in a particular way. Then comes the question of birth rates in certain religions. Do some religions have more kids, and do they raise those kids such that their offspring choose members of the same group? I would be interested to see some numbers on how many people actually choose a different faith from their parents' faith.



Originally posted by Paul of Nisbis
Islam claims the entire earth (you live on Muslim ground, especially if any Muslim has ever set foot in your country), by definition there can be no permanent peace with the "House of War," only a temporary truce until it is in their advantage to go on the offensive again. Even secularists are coming to the conclusion that allowing Muslims into the West is a mistake:

Hello Paul of Nisbis.

Where do you get the term "House of War"? I see most Muslims as sheeplike and innocent, for the most part. Their religion works for them and they do not crave warfare, but they are being whipped-up toward war. With the cartoons and the recent polarization that's been building. --This is happening by forces western and mid-eastern in nature, IMO.

What do you feel is the solution?



Originally posted by spamandham
There are hundreds (thousands?) of Christian sects, many of which do not consider others to be True Christians, yet when it comes time for a head count suddenly it's ok to count those other poor deceived souls worshipping a false Christ as brothers.

The same is true of Islam. There are multiple sects of Budhhism as well, or Taoism, etc.

This thread is starting off with the creme de la creme of ATS minds. Thanks for commenting spamandham.

Buddhists and Taoists do not disagree in any substantial way, in such a manner as to disrupt their global neighbors. Only Christians or Muslims differ forcefully within their own sects, causing wars thereby. Following that idea then, it seems again like the Abrahamic side is promoting world violence.

I think the Abrahamic section of the chart can be seen as totally un-cool with the idea of rebirth-of-souls. That's really the key dividing point, isn't it? The eternal soul? Does it get reborn or it simply sent to heaven forever? Because the whole of Islam and Christianity (the Abrahamic side of the chart) say that rebirth is a lie. They do not accept that their actions on Earth will face them on Earth again.

I'm not saying rebirth is true, I'm saying denial of it (one-life-and-done) handicaps the individual. I am therefore also saying that the Abrahamic tribes are handicapped internally by their lack of karmic understanding and total ignorance regarding the eternal nature of the soul. This makes them desire war or conflict.

So this leads me to my main question, which is: Do you consider reincarnational-karmic-type Christians to be deceived ones?

Sorry to be so direct in religous questioning (it's rude I realize) but truth hides under the most unpleasant rocks. Also, it's my nature to ask direct questions when I respect someone greatly, as in this case. Feel free to ignore any part of my question.


[edit on 6-2-2006 by smallpeeps]



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps
This thread is starting off with the creme de la creme of ATS minds. Thanks for commenting spamandham.


For clarification, I assume that your creme de la creme comment was directed toward Nakash. If you meant me, then thanks for the kind words. Thanks for noticing my post either way.


Originally posted by smallpeeps
Buddhists and Taoists do not disagree in any substantial way, in such a manner as to disrupt their global neighbors.


No doubt you're right about that. Admittedly, I don't know nearly as much about Buddhism or Taoism to make intelligent assessments in that regard, other than simply to note that there are multiple versions of them.


Originally posted by smallpeeps
Only Christians or Muslims differ forcefully within their own sects, causing wars thereby. Following that idea then, it seems again like the Abrahamic side is promoting world violence.


Perhaps, I can't really comment on that either. I would say this though, there are others who look to bolster their perception by juggling the numbers in whatever way makes them look like they will eventually dominate. Secularists do the same thing. My suspicion is that mystical religions are less prone to this type of behavior, since mysticism is personal rather than evangelical in nature.


Originally posted by smallpeeps
So this leads me to my main question, which is: Do you consider reincarnational-karmic-type Christians to be deceived ones?


I'm guessing this is directed toward readers in general or to Nakash, and not me specifically?

If it was directed toward me, from my perspective, anyone who calls himself a Christian is a Christian on equal footing with any other Christian. I know that sidesteps the question somewhat.



posted on Feb, 7 2006 @ 12:40 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham
If you meant me, then thanks for the kind words. Thanks for noticing my post either way.

Yes, I've enjoyed reading your posts and you've expanded my knowledge of Christianity. I'm referring to the "Conspiracy Against Christianity" thread mainly. Good stuff.


Originally posted by spamandham:
My suspicion is that mystical religions are less prone to this type of behavior, since mysticism is personal rather than evangelical in nature.

I think you've hit on the key question here. Evangalism is the better term than "preaching". Can it be said that the Abrahamic section of the pie is more evangelical than the other?



Originally posted by smallpeeps
So this leads me to my main question, which is: Do you consider reincarnational-karmic-type Christians to be deceived ones?


Originally posted by spamandham
I'm guessing this is directed toward readers in general or to Nakash, and not me specifically?

If it was directed toward me, from my perspective, anyone who calls himself a Christian is a Christian on equal footing with any other Christian. I know that sidesteps the question somewhat.

Yes I was asking you specifically. I like your way of speaking and I knew the answer would be well considered. And yes you did dodge it a bit
How then can some Christians be "misled" as you said above? Does "equal footing" mean that when Christ comes back, he'll accept them all, so long as they believe in him?

But it is a key question, because the questions of evangalism and global religion seem to directly make the world we're in. Both Christians and Muslims are being guided, in the larger context, isn't that true?

I agree with you about numbers being shuffled to fit certain viewpoints, btw, but wouldn't you say that the Christian/Muslim breakdown is roughly as described above? That over 50% of the world belongs to these two faiths?



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