Doctors can't even be trusted with cancer research!

Editors at The New England Journal of Medicine said yesterday that they suspect two cancer papers the journal published may be fraudulent, adding to mounting concerns over the integrity of biomedical research in top journals

The lead author of both papers was Norwegian scientist Dr. Jon Sudbo, who is also suspected of fabricating data for a paper published last year in the British medical journal Lancet.

Sudbo's research focused on techniques to identify discolored spots in the mouth likely to develop into cases of oral cancer, and ways to treat the cancer. Scientists in the field considered the work impressive and hoped it might lead to earlier identification of precancerous spots, according to Dr. Bruce Donoff, dean of the Harvard School of Dental Medicine.

source: www.boston.com...

Now they have concerns about ALL biomedical research being done. These charming doctors want the grant money to keep coming so they create lies in order to keep the money rolling in.

Imagine that, a respected professional doing such a thing. Doctors, politicians, religious leaders, etc.....who can be trusted? Why don't they spend their time and our money on research that actually finds a cure for something? Oh, I forgot, there's no money in cures.....

Like very field in human endevour, your going to ge tthe good and the bad. Medicine is no exception. I agree it is dishartening, but its a fact of life. From spotty research, to medical staff that just does not care etc. You see this in EVERY industry.

Medicine is a business and there is plenty of money in cures

to medical staff that just does not care etc.

This is true...and sad. In many hospitals, the staff lose site of what they are doing....and treat people like dogs.

But back on subject...cancer is serious and for doctors to make up lies to either inflate their egos around their colleagues or to simply keep the grant money coming is just plain horrible. That doctor in the article I posted should be stripped of his ability to practice medicine and have any involvement in the field.........

A lot of time, researchers are under the "publish or perish" rule. If they don't have any published work by the end of the grant period, their funding is cut. I've heard rumors that this is why the Korean doctor fabricated his studies. I just read one of the two he's admitted were fraudulent, and it's quite interesting. In the study, the Dr. claims to have 11 stem cell lines by somatic nuclear transfer when in actuality, he only had 1 and was working on the others at time of publication. Supposedly, he lied about the other 10 in order to renew funding and then actually create them. I suppose that could be a factor in some, but certainly not all, cases of research fabrication.

~MFP

A lot of time, researchers are under the "publish or perish" rule. If they don't have any published work by the end of the grant period, their funding is cut. I've heard rumors that this is why the Korean doctor fabricated his studies. I just read one of the two he's admitted were fraudulent, and it's quite interesting. In the study, the Dr. claims to have 11 stem cell lines by somatic nuclear transfer when in actuality, he only had 1 and was working on the others at time of publication. Supposedly, he lied about the other 10 in order to renew funding and then actually create them.

bsl..you are amazing. You discuss this like it is an everyday occurance and it's an accepted behavior. You don't show any disgust or disdain for the behavior. You simply talk about it like it happens every day...and that my friend, is pretty scary!!

I suppose that could be a factor in some, but certainly not all, cases of research fabrication.

And....it appears, according to you, that there is quite a lot of reasearch fabrication going on. Is there any legitimate research going on? Or is there just a lot of wheel spinning going on because once again, no one really wants to find a cure for anything? What happens to these doctors that fabricate research? Do they have their licenses revoked or do they get a slap on the wrist and a couple of harsh words?

What happened to the days when cures or vaccines (just keep the mercury out of them and don't use humans as guinea pigs if you don't know for sure they work) for everything were found: polio, smallpox, dyptheria, wooping cough, sypphillis, ghonnorrea, etc. etc. etc.....this was all a long time ago. With today's modern technology and BRILLIANT minds working on so many cures, why are NO cures being found for anything? Doesn't that concern you? What are those researchers really doing with the money?

You really like to twist people's words. I said that a lot of researchers are in the publish or perish atmosphere. This doesn't mean they publish fraudulent work, I'm suggesting it puts them in a situation where they often publish work prematurely or sometimes not at all. The Korean researcher chose to be morally weak and publish fake work, and now you're using him as an analogy for the entire cancer research community. I suppose by the same method, I could use you as a representative of the alternative medication group, so, from now on I guess I'll see them as beligerent, arrogant, close-minded, word-twisting hypocrites, no?

~MFP

I don't blame the scientist. I blame the funding system.

It is true then, that the freest man is the one that owns himself.

It really sucks when an experiment of yours does not work out, or you get lacking results. I will make an example with myself.

I got a chance to work in a research lab under a professor and his grad student. I was supposed to synthesize bis(cyclopentadienyl)cobalticinium from starting materials. It doesn't matter what it is or the actual procedure - that is irrelevant. One thing I do need to point out is that once the procedure had started, none of my chemicals were allowed to come in contact with air otherwise they simply oxidize and get ruined and/or explode.

To make a long story short, there was one part when the molar quantity of the mass of my product was greater than the molar quantity of the mass of my limiting reagent, which means that I had (on paper) "created" extra matter. This is simply not possible - I merely had a bunch of extra contaminants in my product.

There was another part when my product got exposed to a little bit of air. All of these shortcomings were part of my procedure.

It was my obligation to report these screw-ups in my write-up, and I did. I had a miniscule amount of the desired product formed. I started with about 5 grams of sodium metal (the limiting reagent) and I ended up with enough product to make the size of a pencil eraser. I got a B+ for my grade. I could have tried to fudge my numbers to get a better grade. No matter what, my professor would have seen my results, and could have given me a higher grade for a more "perfect" report, or actually failed me for lying.

Anyway, to keep on the point, scientific research is frustrating and rewarding at the same time. You want it to go perfect, and you sometimes are tempted to just... do a little fudging. But you just can't.

As far as to "where all the funding money goes," there are many answers. There are some researchers that properly allocate the funds, and make sure that their reported data is correct, and keep repeating the experiment until they get good, desirable, and repeateable results before publishing. This I am sure is the majority. Scientific Integrity weighs heavier in the field more than Scientific Publications.

I am sure that there are researchers out there who lie, and do sneaky stuff with the extra money that they don't allocate for repeating the experiments. I will say that this is a MUCH smaller group. I have been studying federal grants and contracts, and their follow-up on how the money is spent is QUITE tight. They want to know how much of the money is spent on salaries, benefits, equipment, transportation, etc etc. You can find books on this at any library.

As much as it pains me to admit it, I have to agree with Excitable Boy to an extent that, yes, there are crappy researchers out there, even fraudulent ones. It is a big fat terrible thing to do - lying about medical developments. It makes it WORSE for all the good and ethical researchers out there - they in turn will have MORE hoops to jump through to get research funding. Less money will be given out for research because funding practices will get tigheter. Research and developments will slow down - all because a bunch of jerks wanted to have their name in a fancy medical journal.

[edit on 28-2-2006 by Ralph_The_Wonder_Llama]