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Green Martian valley?

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posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by Yarium
Also, can an unmodified image of the "mining vehicle" be posted? It was very interesting when highlighted with grey - and definitely made it stand out as something different. Is it possibile to see from the normal image? How large would it be according to the normal image? That image really did interest me and I'd like to explore it further.


You can view or download the original filmstrip from here: ida.wr.usgs.gov...

I can't find the thread I originally posted that pic in, but from memory the size of the object worked out to be approx. 18 x 45 feet, or meters maybe. There should be a scale on the photo.




posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 02:28 PM
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probe:

I tried to load the source MOC image for this image:




but the file was too large for my account.

It is MOC image 0900773. narrow-field strip.

You should be able to access from Malin's site. The "lakes" can be resolved on the far-left after you begin to zoom in.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 04:39 PM
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Ah, thanks for the link Probie!

I see the image now, and the crater in specific you were talking about. I see also how it was modified - mainly by tilting the picture to be horizontal instead of vertical.

Seeing it vertically, and in black and white, does make me think different of it. The two "engine" like things on the back of the vehicle in the coloured version, clear (to me) look like two craters in the unmodified version. Also, the sideways interpretation (with colour) makes it look like the vehicle is "propped up" into the crater. The unmodified version looks more like there is a cliff-face/rock-face that sinks down into the larger crater. Now, there's also the "head' of the vehicle. I wouldn't put it past being a rocky outcrop or rock-slide down into the older crater that it was in.

Also, an important note to make, the scale on this image looks pretty big from the left side of the image to the right side is probably a dozen kilometers. That would place the "vehicle" at a massive size of one kilometer across. I don't think such a massive tunneling vehicle would be the efficient means of an advanced civilization.

In the end, I'll have to mark that one up to environmental causes as well - but thanks for taking the time to search so thoroughly through that picture to find it! When something is actually there, it would never be found without someone there who was looking.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 06:07 PM
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Here is another "lake" formation:





posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 07:17 PM
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Yeah the lakes are cool - even if they now are dried out... or are they? It is possible that near-surface groundwater on mars could become liquid during the warmest seasons of the planet, which could then help keep the shape of these lakes. However, they would freeze again during the night. More or less, I'd call them a mix of slush and mud. Of course, whether this is true or not is not for certain. There may be a probe that was supposed to do these kinds of scans - but I can't remember what happened with it.

Now, for surface geography, I LOVE the pictures from Titan! Even though it's not water falling from those clouds, the effects of that kind of environment can be wonderfully seen. It's amazing how a little bit of something like earth can produce surfaces that look like they came from earth!



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 08:04 PM
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Someone enhanced this image to show "ridge patterns".

Looking at the image the first instinct is "these are valleys".

After-all, on Earth where there is water, valleys are very common.

But on Mars, where there is no water, erosion is aeolian and gravity specific.

Thus, ridges form, not valleys.

All these white-greenish lines mark the crests of a ridge and some are hard to tell that they are ridges, but others are easy (where the edges show exposed rock out-crops kilometers long and below them are slumps of dirt...which means that the ridge line is what is white-greenish...otherwise the rock outcropping would not be exposed there but covered by slumps of dirt).

You people can't even interpret the picture correctly, and you're trying to make claims that there's vegetation? Get out of here.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 08:13 PM
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Also people are circling objects and are like "oooh ooh look at the symmetry" oh get over it...look at the scale!

These objects would be kilometers long...if a civilization were so advanced to build something larger than a city...why is Mars a dead world? Stupid.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 08:30 PM
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Stratf_Rus

Please keep up with current science.

There has been, and is, water on Mars.

Now, you may argue that it cannot exist in liquid form in the CURRENT Mars environment, and you may have a salient point.

But, i would refrain from further comment, if i were you.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 08:32 PM
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...if a civilization were so advanced to build something larger than a city...why is Mars a dead world?

who said it was?....

perhaps we are the martians.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by jdjaguar
Stratf_Rus

Please keep up with current science.

There has been, and is, water on Mars.

Now, you may argue that it cannot exist in liquid form in the CURRENT Mars environment, and you may have a salient point.

But, i would refrain from further comment, if i were you.



I should refrain from further comment? I'm a Planetary Geologist...you're some kid looking at a picture of what you thought were valleys but they are all ridges.

There's not a single valley in the entire area of interest.

There is no water on Mars as far as anything is concerned, it's no longer an erosional force...whatever features may have been eroded by water are very old.

There certainly is no liquid water on Mars so that rules out any life (which requires water for a balance to chemical reactions).

The atmospheric pressures are too low to support life period.

The atmospheric composition is nearly entirely Carbon Dioxide.

Martian Soil composition is very monotonous as well and lacks Carbon.

There is no evidence that the Martian climate has been any different for billions of years.

Even Valles Marineris had nothing to do with erosion.

Mars is a very dead world.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 08:51 PM
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Where should I begin:

should refrain from further comment? I'm a Planetary Geologist...you're some kid looking at a picture of what you thought were valleys but they are all ridges.

There's not a single valley in the entire area of interest.

There is no water on Mars as far as anything is concerned, it's no longer an erosional force...whatever features may have been eroded by water are very old.

There certainly is no liquid water on Mars so that rules out any life (which requires water for a balance to chemical reactions).

The atmospheric pressures are too low to support life period.

The atmospheric composition is nearly entirely Carbon Dioxide.

Martian Soil composition is very monotonous as well and lacks Carbon.

There is no evidence that the Martian climate has been any different for billions of years.

Even Valles Marineris had nothing to do with erosion.

Mars is a very dead world.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 08:53 PM
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Did you have something to say???

And stop posting your pictures without source images, otherwise its meaningless garbage that could be at a scale of 1:1,000,000 or 1:1...and 1 mm can equal 1mm or 1 km.

[edit on 9-2-2006 by Stratrf_Rus]



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 09:01 PM
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I find your attitude repugnate, sir.

The software program cut off my response.

and all we have to go on are images, sir.

I will not rise to the bait.

good night (sir).



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 09:02 PM
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Please, Stratrf_Rus, be a bit more respectful here. I agree with you - I as well think that these pictures do not prove life exists on mars, and I also try to come up or explain how the pictures are simply illusions, or the like - but you shouldn't be insulting people. This forum is not for elitism, but is instead for truth-seeking and teaching. Please teach in a positive manner.

For one, I would like to see how you explain these "lake-like" objects. I'm not saying they're lakes, and also believe they are not, but I am trying to justify my position on that. Could you help me see how you, as an apparent expert, would explain the situation.

I am not a platenary geologist, I'm an amatuer rogue scholar of the truth - and what I see fascinates me, even if it's a natural occurance. But others will always look for things, hoping to find something. Sometimes they create a world that isn't there, but we must prove that it's not there, instead of claiming superiority and stamping it out.

So, please, could you post something a little bit more constructive to this debate? I'm sure that as a planetary geologist you have a LOT to offer to this debate, and I will gladly gleam upon your insights - but we need to SEE those insights first. Thank you.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by Yarium
It is possible that near-surface groundwater on mars could become liquid during the warmest seasons of the planet


Mars has reached a maximum temperature of 27 degrees C during the summer but I think thats quite rare.

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So I would say its quite possible.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 09:10 PM
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Jdjaguar is just being mellow-dramatic.

I know I'm brusque but there's a difference from knowing that you don't have a formal education in it and thinking you do...

Take for example Jag's lake pics, he has no CONTEXT to them at all, they could be taken of the Earth for all we know, we have no clue where he even got them from...that's a big mistake.

And whatever response he has I'd love to hear and i'll just break it down again.

The thread's title is "Green Martian Valley" but everything here is Whitish-Green Ridges...

That alone says something.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by Yarium
It is possible that near-surface groundwater on mars could become liquid during the warmest seasons of the planet


Mars has reached a maximum temperature of 27 degrees C during the summer but I think thats quite rare.

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So I would say its quite possible.


There's more to liquid water than just temperature, the pressure is so low that the water never is a liquid for more than a few minutes at most.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 09:11 PM
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Was there not an entire icecap of water on top of Mars? also, is there not a cratered lake of water?

I do believe there is water on mars.





posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 09:14 PM
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We're discussing liquid water which is what is useful for erosion and life.

There is some glacial erosion at the poles but that's not much.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 09:24 PM
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So Mars with less than one hundredth Earth's atmospheric pressure would make frozen water turn to a gas very fast or not at all?

Where the heck is the melting point of water at 6.35 mbar



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