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NSA spying on U.S. citizens prior to 9-11 or current administration (if old, please move or delete)

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posted on Feb, 4 2006 @ 01:36 PM
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I just came across this article while searching for others on websites in an effort to construct a timeline for myself of the events surrounding 9-11 and its social and political repercussions (as part of a research paper for school). It cites allegations of domestic NSA spying prior to 9-11, and indeed, before President Bush took office. I find this very interesting.

I've always said that if there were some sort of conspiracy afoot (if there were - not "there is" - I'm not convinced by either side of the debate yet) it would transcend parties, administrations, and global events. Apparently this gets into the whole Echelon issue, too.




The lawsuit centers on documents that are said to detail the operations of the so-called Echelon global surveillance network. Details surrounding Echelon came to light last year when the European Union launched a full-scale investigation into privacy abuses against European citizens by the NSA.


archives.cnn.com...

I would appreciate it if this wasn't used to justify arguments over who was worse or the greater threat to democracy etc. etc. It's clear whatever is going on has nothing to do with party affiliation, and if it is indeed nefarious in its intentions, division based on party or administration support plays right into its hands. Presidents come and go. If the conspiracy theorists are to be believed, this transcends that. (For me, the jury is still out).




posted on Feb, 4 2006 @ 02:10 PM
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Yes, Echelon has been going on for quite some time. This makes me feel that the "leak" about domestic spying was intentional. Look at the reaction. At least half of the population supports it when the president says that he authorized it to take place. But I do feel it's scooping up every communication in a big dragnet and monitoring for keywords. This is, after all what Echelon does. Why make a new, more limited system when you already have Echelon?



posted on Feb, 4 2006 @ 04:00 PM
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That's something that has perplexed me. Why the fuss about NSA surveillance now, if it's been going on for some time, now? The fact that it has been presented as being so limited and restricted to a small NSA group makes me wonder whether these latest stories are simply designed to make us assume this is as far as it goes, and to dissuade us questioning other possible aspects of it since there's "nothing more to it than this."

At the same time however, there have been repeated attempts as of late to establish extensive data mining programs. Each time one has met with failure, a new iteration of it pops up. At times it almost seems like there are several redundant programs on place. If this has been going on this long, as some claim, would these efforts signify an attempt to expand on the overall program, or create new "tendrils" to increase its effectiveness and pervasiveness? Again, I'm not saying I believe this to be the case. I'm just curious. These are other related aspects of the paper I'm working on for class:


NSA and CIA Deny Allegations of Domestic Spying, but Refuse to Disavow Existence of Echelon Surveillance Network, and Limit Their Denials to “Ordinary Americans:”
archives.cnn.com...

Britain Establishes Internet Domestic Spy Apparatus:
archives.cnn.com...

Operation TIPS (Terrorism Information and Prevention System) Concerns (July 2002):
archives.cnn.com...
archives.cnn.com...

Congress Prohibits Operation TIPS and National ID Creation:
www.aclu.org...


(note however that national ID standards have since been adopted;

Concerns Over Recently Passed "Real ID" Act:
www.cnn.com...
Real ID Act Details:
news.com.com... )



Total Information Awareness (TIA) Development Concerns:
archives.cnn.com...

Further Attempts at Data Mining System Creation Despite TIA's Congressional Dismantling:
www.cnn.com...

States Pull Out of "MATRIX" Data Mining System:
www.cnn.com...

CAPPS II Abandoned:
www.cnn.com...

Homeland Security CAPPS Revamp:
newstandardnews.net...

SecureFlight Program Concerns:
www.washingtonpost.com...

Registered Traveler Program Seeks to Employ Private Companies for Data Collection to Ensure Security (Perks could include not having to remove shoes or have their luggage searched before boarding if they register):
www.cnn.com...

[edit on 4-2-2006 by AceWombat04]

[edit on 4-2-2006 by AceWombat04]



posted on Feb, 4 2006 @ 05:14 PM
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How far back do you want to go?

The Ford administration? The FBI phonetapping Americans during the red scare McCarthy era. Or the spying on Americans with German surnames during WWII?

How about the tapping of civilian telegraph lines by both the Union and Confederate governments during the Civil War? I am sure there are more, those just come to mind now.



posted on Feb, 4 2006 @ 06:01 PM
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Lol well that might pose a problem when it comes to the ten page maximum, but I'm still interested beyond any academic value, too. I think the question is (since it seems many believe there's something not quite right, here) how do these different things relate to one another? Are there substantiated threads that tie them together other than the fact that they all arouse suspicion and debate?



posted on Feb, 19 2006 @ 03:59 PM
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the government has been doing this for years. back in wwii the government had the wire services sending copies of german and japanese telegrams to the them. no big deal. they listen to cell phone conversations and computers search for certain words and phrases. one of the two places where this goes on is just out side yakima wa




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