I believe the war with China is actually underway..at face value it is economic..Many of Walmart products are from China..In spite of quality problems such as toothpaste thing, the lead paint in toys thing..We continue to buy their products(at least it puts bucks in US CEO pockets). You don't think some percentage of those dollars find their way into Chinese military...Brillant..America pays for the arming of China.

Originally posted by EarthUnificationFrontier
Yup, that was what my history teacher said, US has all these fancy F16 M1 Abrahams continental missiles aircraft carriers etc, the list goes on....While China has these million troops each given a gravel and viola it's a stalemate.

If only China can somehow pump 1/13th of its population into US each given a butcher knife US would be owned hands down.

And that just might happen according the census for minority birth rates.

Oh ok, I misenterpretted, my bad. 90 Bln., it probably does go much further than the US military budget does. Interesting, it may go much further in quantity, but what about quality? Do the Chinese have the same quality controls the US has in place?

Hiya,

just a reply to your post about Chineese Quality Control. It does exist, but not on a scale as you would see over here in the west.

Originally posted by Toadmund
One has got to remember that doing things in China is much cheaper, and I don't think the Chinese military buys $2000.00 toilet seats either. People would get executed over bad purchases like that.

When one considers Chinese folks get paid like 2-3 bux a day, that's a crap-load of cheap labour, they can manufacture everything at a fraction of the cost.

So I would assume their military budget goes at least 10X further than the US military budget does.

They also have the people and the infrastructure to build a mighty military machine on a real short notice.

I think they see a war coming. (a big one)

Well said,well said

I believe If the U.S gets into it with china it will be when we have a war with iran.Due to a few things.

-Natural Chinese bitterness towards the U.S
-Massive investmits in Iranian oil could be destroyed in the war
-See's the chance to finally make its move.
-They have not been heavily improving their military since about 01 for no reason.
-Has held war games with Russia,Iran
-Has grouped with Iran and Russia to talk about "combating terrorism"heh man that seems to be a popular excuse these days.
-Finished building railway connecting iran and China
-Has agreed to store Iranian Oil resevours on Chinese land.
-Has armed iran with weapons,and there are recent reports of some Chinese weapons making there way to Afghanistan through iran.
-wants Tiawan lol


[edit on 13-9-2007 by Project_Silo]

I wouldn't be so quick to downplay any overt move by the Chinese. Sure, we American's think we're untouchable, but so did the Romans before Adrianople. Every great Empire falls, ours will one day as well. Let me have some fun by spinning a scenario for you, may be all crap but what the hell right? ( I hope he double l isn't considered a swear here in ATS)

A terror cell, funded by Iran, trained in Venezuela and snuck across the Mexican border by highly paid drug lords, pops off a nuke in Houston Texas. 25,000 die and over 200,000 are injured. FOr a time (maybe a month or so), the US descends into chaos.
Hoping to take advantage, Iran launches a massive military assault aimed at seizing control of Iraq. THe terribly outnumbered US and Iraqi and British forces fight heroically but are pushed back to the Euphrates River.
This takes maybe only a week or so to occur, not wanting an Iranian controlled Iraq, the Saudi Royal family pulls some strings and gets the US and others to pull it together and send forces to Iraq. But this takes time.

In the meantime the outnumbered allied forces are forced back beyond even the Tigris and to the borders of Kuwait, the Royals in Saudi Ariabia, only seeing the prospect of declining profits, finally broker a deal with Iran. China, seeing an oppurtunity sends in troops as peacekeepers. Israel, panics and launches airstrikes at Iran's nuclear facilites and even pounds the living @#$% out of the Syrian military just for good measure.

The escalating situation as well as the loss of imported oil forces the EU to intervene, sending forces. The US, finally reorganized and looking for blood, begins throwing everything they have at the Iranians. Beign an ally, the Chinese and Russians are forced to respond in kind by sending troops to Irans aid, the Chinese simply take over Afghanistan on their rail car ride over to Iran. Kind of a rest stop but with shooting and so forth.
Yeah...pretty much the outbreak of WW3. It'd take me too long to finish the scenario..adios!

Originally posted by Toadmund
One has got to remember that doing things in China is much cheaper, and I don't think the Chinese military buys $2000.00 toilet seats either.

Neither does the US. Those toilet seats are just a cover to funnel money into black programs.

I was in China 2 months ago, while i was there i noticed that there are just too many things on the road at any given time.

I think the hardest thing for China would be actualy move its army out of the country.

A good point about the Chineese people is their very friendly and i think if a war did kick off it'd be a shame to fight against such a friendly group of people.

..but now i've just said that i bet i walk outside and get mugged by a chineese person

China has such a large population that if they all had a rifle they would be invincible. No need for anything other than human cannon fodder.

I've been thinking about an issue ever since I saw a picture of a Chinese jetfighter in storage. The caption as I recall was a fighter awaiting delivery to the Chinese airforce or something of the sort. It had obviously been mothballed for a long time. I wish I could still find it, but to my point. I believe the Chinese military has been making loads of military equipment and hiding nearly all of it. If the equipment is hidden ie jets, etc, and not delivered, they don't need to be on the books. Henceforth large assets can be hidden, and off the books. Also why does it look like fighter sales to other countries seem to dwarf domestic production for their own armed forces. I just say this at first glance as I haven't done a lot of research other than just browsing foreign orders for Chinese produced jet fighters. This seems to hint at the possibility they have a possible additional capability of producing 30-200 additional fighters a year. I believe they are getting many many more Russian engines for their own domestic products and just building airframes waiting for engines. China sold 120 j-7 types to Pakistan whithin three or 4 years---maybe 160 plus "losing a few". Surely they produced many more for domestic production. The United States has many thousands of fighters, but I fear the Chinese may be producing many thousands secretly at rates it took the US decades to acquire.

When it comes to the military just think of how much tax the Chinese government must make from the citizens every year - population 1.3 billion. They obviously have enough money to build what ever they want and as many as they want.

The Chinese military has made huge strides over the last two decades, thanks to a huge trade deficit of over 220 billion in China's favor. It is continuing and no one is stopping it.

China's military is mainly Russian weapons with US satellite encryption for the Nuclear Submarines and missle guidance for the ICBMs. The encryption and missle guidance they didn't even have to steal, it was given to them by Lorel Space Corp. and Hughes Electronics out of New York.

The US can no longer crack communications between Chinese personell as the encryption is now too sophisticated and the US uses it as well. The missle guidance provides almost laser precision targeting.

China currently has no long range warfare projection capabilites but is working on force projection with the building of new aircraft carriers, Bomber and refueling aircraft.

China's main focus is in the Information Warfare sector to bring down enemy communications through DoS attacks or backdoor hacks during wartime. Viruses also play a role in taking down enemy networks, as was the case in the Iraq war by the US on China's defense network built for Iraq called "Tiger Song". Once compromised and rendered useless, it was a huge wakeup call to China.

Also, China is working feverishly in Laser technology to knock out enemy satellites. By doing so, it too brings down command and control communications, but also any missle guidance as well.

China also has the much feared Sunburn II Nuclear anti-ship missle. It is Russian and designed to destroy US Agesis Destroyers. It moves erratically when launched, making it almost impossible to target before impact. It hugs the surface and then abruptly elevates and comes crashing down onto the deck. It is very precise. The counter for the Sunburn by the US government was stopped by the Clinton administration, so there is no defense.

What's more, Iran now has the Sunburn II mobile missle launchers. They can launch from the rocky coast at any US Warships in the Gulf.


[edit on 20-5-2008 by jetxnet]

If Korea is any example of our military strength in the 50's. We're screwed. 2008. They pimped us out for high tech missile tech at los alamos. Laptops being found behind copier machines weeks later. All said. If the sh%% hits the fan bend over and kiss your ever loving tail end bye bye, it won't be pretty. They are masters in the art of non provacative f you up.

[edit on 5/20/2008 by jpm1602]