Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by AceWombat04
Many Muslims have protested - quite vocally - against the hijacking of their faith by terror.

Interesting, but I don't recall seeing or hearing about any such protests by muslims, and I'm quite the "news junkie".

No, unfortunately, what I've seen are either wild protests over something ridiculous such as cartoons like we are seeing in Europe, wild celebrations at the deaths of innocent Americans and other Westerners, or the vast majority of muslims assuming the "ostrich position" (sticking their heads in the sand so as not to have to see what's really going on).

I respect the experiences and observations which have led you to these conclusions, but respectfully disagree and suggest that no matter how much one thinks they have seen, there is always more to see. No enmity is implied though, and I will not flame someone for disagreeing with me.

Originally posted by AceWombat04
I respect the experiences and observations which have led you to these conclusions, but respectfully disagree and suggest that no matter how much one thinks they have seen, there is always more to see. No enmity is implied though, and I will not flame someone for disagreeing with me.

Thank you and no attempt was/is being made to "flame" you.

I just think that if all these protests you mentioned had actually happened then people wouldn't be coming down so hard on the muslims right now.

Just as many are welcoming the European response of publishing these cartoons in the name of their free speech rights, many would also welcome and recognize a groundswell of muslims standing up and saying enough is enough, we really do want to co-exist and live in peace with our neighbors everywhere.

The more moderate have started to become far more vocal about extremists hijacking their religion, there have supposedly been counter demonstrations in Denmark by moderates against the hardliners. IMO their only mistake was they should have started challenging these extremists a lot sooner but at least they realise the problem of how some non muslims perceive all muslims. I believe the Islamic world is now going through something very similar to that which Christianity experienced during the age of enlightenment and the growing pains are proving very uncomfortable. Also, lest we forget Islam was always traditionally a religion tolerent of both Christianity and Judaism within it's lands and cities, far more so than Christianity ever was of either, the problems we have today stem from a mixture of misguided foreing policy and particular sects within the Islamic world who exploit this. Remember as well that in Europe some people kill each other over which soccer team they support, there are idiots in every woodpile.

Oh and Wask don't make the mistake of thinking a sleeping lion is a dead one.

[edit on 4-2-2006 by ubermunche]

a couple of things i noticed yesterday on Sky News

most of the signs were written in the same handwriting
the only peson i saw writing a sign was a white chick (with the handwriting mentioned above). sure she was all covered up, but her hand was white.

i know that white people can be Muslim, i just found it interesting. a possible plant to help encourage some news?

and i liked the camera angles to give the impression that there were more people present.

[edit on 4-2-2006 by shipman pi]

Originally posted by centurion1211

Now I must turn that around and say that I applaud all Europeans that have found the spine to stand up for their rights and post those stupid cartoons in newspapers and magazines in country after country.

Maxies , with respect until you can come to my country and first insult them, then and only then can you take it back.
For you never had the spine to do it first.

Anyone who threatens a 9/11 over a cartoon is an Extremist not a Moderate Why are you people even trying to paint these idiots into moderates? Oh yeah thats because you wouldn't ever befriend someone from that particular religion so you wouldn't know just how afraid alot of the moderates are, thats why you don't see many of them protesting. As one of my Muslim friends said the other day, you don't do these things when there is at least 1 extremist in any given family or group secret or overt they don't look kindly on their own bretherin protesting their actions. What would Hitler do if his own people were to protest the rounding up of Jews hmm? Similiar situation here except they are dispersed and don't exactly go out of their way to identify themselves like Skinheads/Nazis did/do

You people are just as bad as those protesting for calling for airstrikes against unarmed "rioters" who have not caused a single death as of yet, just a bit of property damage. Kind of overkill doncha think? Oh yeah that's right, a bunch of Saudi's killed 3000+ Americans so that gives you the moral athority to go about and act just like they are right now. Whos the hypocrits now hmm?

It is all very well and good to call for tolerance of any form of speech. But all rights and freedoms have limits, particularly freedom of speech and expression. Those cartoons were hardly what I would call offensive, if I were a practicing Muslim I might feel otherwise. But to advocate the destruction of an entire nation as some of these idiots seem to be doing?
That is more than a little bit over the top. Depicting that which should not be dipicted, ok fine, don't read it or view it turn away, turn the page...donot view it. Chopping someones head off seems a bit on the extreme side to me.

Maybe that is the point, though. Maybe there are not as many moderate Muslims as we hope? All the Muslims that I know are, but they are hardly the majority of Muslims in the world.

Originally posted by DARKJEDIG
i can't believe that the english people on here are not going absolutely nuts at this

- It's because "the English people" (like the rest of the British) have a little more wit than some.

'We' can see when there is an attempt to 'play' us and 'we' know (from years of experience) that a photo or even a series of TV images can exaggerate and indeed lie about a situation.

We know too that images of relatively small crowds of some genuinely upset people is one thing but the very small - albeit very visible - band of nutters within it waving inflammatory posters or wailing a few slogans is another.

(It's the oldest strategy in the book and one employed by everyone; 'we' are quite used to demos and just because, say, the SWP (Socialist Workers Party.....they and their posters appear at almost everything) have the experience and the nous to get their posters carried along at what appears to be the edges of a march (on the televised bit) that hardly makes the march an SWP one or everyone at it an SWP supporter.)

There is very obviously an unholy alliance at work here - and has been for some time.
'We' are not blind to this.

On the one hand lunatic religious extremists (and they did not number "hundreds") are desperate for the sectarian racist extremists to react and make their version of 'reality' appear true to the people they think they can appeal to. To further their agenda.

Whilst on the other side there are lunatic sectarian 'nationalist' (although anyone knowing anything about the 'nation' would use that term very advisedly) and racist extremists (and they too are nothing like as numerous as they want others to think) desperately hoping those nutters on the other side make their version of 'reality' appear true to the people they think they can appeal to. To further their agenda.

Like I said, 'we' may not be perfect at our community relations but just the same 'we' are not blind to this and 'we' will work things out in a civilized manner without ushering in some sort of an idiotic nationalist/fascist dictatorship, thank you very much.

It is a great shame plenty of others here seem to be unaware of what is going on before shouting the odds and what a shame this kind of thing just (once again) becomes a vehicle for every generalised, sweeping, vicious, meat-headed and plain dumb attitude out there.



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[edit on 4-2-2006 by yanchek]

Anyone who threatens a 9/11 over a cartoon is an Extremist not a Moderate.

Obviously.

Why are you people even trying to paint these idiots into moderates?

Who's doing that? I know I said precisely the opposite a little earlier in the thread, and I think it's pretty much agreed upon by most folks that anyone who threatens beheadings over a stupid drawing is not moderate by any stretch of the imagination.

Oh yeah thats because you wouldn't ever befriend someone from that particular religion so you wouldn't know just how afraid alot of the moderates are, thats why you don't see many of them protesting.

Their fear, their problem. I can't be responsible for the inability of person X to do the right thing. I only gotta worry about me, and you about you, and so on. If moderate muslims don't stand up to protect their religion from the corruption of extremism, who will? Nobody, obviously. Then the whole lot of 'em go down the drain of history. No skin off my bag.

Obviously there is a better solution, but it's up to individuals to stand up for what they believe is right. If they fail to do that, there's nobody to blame but the one in the mirror...

You people...

WHO?

Originally posted by devilwasp
Maxies , with respect until you can come to my country and first insult them, then and only then can you take it back.
For you never had the spine to do it first.

Is that Sarcasm?

Listen up, Ive never backed off of a fist fight (specially when drunk), but I KNOW for a fact that the Manhood of English boys has not been entirely drained yet by the clipped-haired ManHaters who run the schools and media.

There are still alot of English youths who are not afraid to punch a Islamic punk in the face who threatens his country and family openly in the streets.

You think I have time to fly to England and confront a buncha Islamic whackos in the streets of London? We will handle things on our end (America) and Im sure the English men can handle things on their end....they don't need our help.

As far as French and Danish boys go.....well, God Help them.

Maximu§

my anger has been simmering during the past couple of days over this, and i planned today to write to the newspapers about it, but coming on here and seeing the banners that people were holding up in London....i am so angry i can barely write.
It was a CARTOON!!!
For Gods sake, i can understand (although dont share that view even) that they want to protest, but who was the moron who gave the go ahead for them to hold up stupid, insane, violent signs like those?!!

I hate these people, i have to say this now, when i see these people with their scarves covering their faces, holding up signs, threatening the very country they live in, i just hate them.

For the guy who drew the cartoon, i i have no feeling at all. My faith is strong enough to endure some childish cartoon.

But for these "muslims" in london, they are the ones i hate. Because they should know better. They should, for once, take the position of being the better person and say.....you know what, its ok, you say what you want, but according to my faith, one day you will meet your maker.

The Quran tells muhammad (when he was being insulted and injured)...."say to them..peace...then ignore them"

Where the hell do these people get the impression that they are defending islam?

I swear, i am so angry, and i ask you again (those who say we should "police" our own)...what can i do right now?.....i wrote to the BBC comments page, but they didnt post it. I am still going to write to other papers, and Hizb ut Tahrir, and tell them exactly what i think of them.

i wonder how many of those sign holders were secret agents

The time has come. Let's get Armageddon on and over with. I'm tired of this petty crap of any religion feeling slighted because of a cartoon (or any religion getting their feelings hurt because of a perceived slight by 1 person)? I mean, come on! Let's put this into perspective. A cartoon versus say 6,000,000 people getting exterminated (by the way, I'm not Jewish)? Who's got the right to feel a slight against their religion to lash out with violence? I thought the basic tenets of any religion were based on peace. Obviously extremists can interpret their religion to involve violence.

So let's all meet over in the Negev desert. Everybody bring their best weaponry. Last man standing will have their religion #1. As Miles Lane would say, "Let's get it on!".

[edit on 4-2-2006 by UnBreakable]

south park should make an episode about those cartoons.

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Is that Sarcasm?

Listen up, Ive never backed off of a fist fight (specially when drunk), but I KNOW for a fact that the Manhood of English boys has not been entirely drained yet by the clipped-haired ManHaters who run the schools and media.

If you've never backed down from one why not come over and mention it at englands next rugby match?
So your now having a go at school headmasters! For god sake.
The media and schools are not run by muslims.

There are still alot of English youths who are not afraid to punch a Islamic punk in the face who threatens his country and family openly in the streets.

You think I have time to fly to England and confront a buncha Islamic whackos in the streets of London? We will handle things on our end (America) and Im sure the English men can handle things on their end....they don't need our help.

As far as French and Danish boys go.....well, God Help them.

Maximu§

What the hell was that ^ all about, your now saying that britain is the only country in europe you see as "manly" and "godly"?
Take your american idiocy and drown in it.



[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by devilwasp
What the hell was that ^ all about, your now saying that britain is the only country in europe you see as "manly" and "godly"?
Take your american idiocy and drown in it.

Why would you attack someone who's basically on your side?
He's not your enemy.

The people threatening another 9/11 style attack are the enemy.

[edit on 4-2-2006 by AceOfBase]

For those who Did not know, Images are forbidden in the Koran. There are many verses in the Koran which Condemn worshipping idols. From that we draw that idols are paintings and pictures, and particularly pictures of the Prophet.

There were NO paintings in his life of how he looked. There are descriptions of how he looked and explanations of his facial features, but NO pictures. It is regarded as idolatrous. On contrary to Christianity, which is Obsessed with Visualisation of their Prophet, and their God. Islam does not need that - actually it FORBIDS it. That is the reason that the Prophet prohibited images in the house.

And I think those people who Published thoes Pictures, Knew EXACTLY what they were doing, and knew this Facts about Islamic Religion - yet they still did it. They still Drew several Pictures of the Prophet and to top it all, they were Not just normal Pictures, they were Caricatured, Insultive and Abusive for the Muslims, not just because of the Reasons I stated Above, but 'coz they degraded the Prophet to a Character of a Comic book.

And no Religious faith should be Caricatured, because it will create Offence.

And I think that these Pictures should not be posted, out of Respect for a Religion and their Views and way of Worship. This only Deepens and Widens the already LARGE Abyss between the Religion of Islam and Christianity.

I know there is also a Question of Freedom of Speech - but there should be also a Bigger part called, which was ignored here, that is called RESPECT for Muslim Religion and their Belifs.

[edit on 4/2/06 by Souljah]

Originally posted by AceOfBase
Why would you attack someone who's basically on your side?
He's not your enemy.

Fact is he is not on my side, and the way things are going ace its starting to look like a larger and larger section of americans are getting more and more worrying with thier views on how to "handle" muslims..

The people threatening another 9/11 style attack are the enemy.
[edit on 4-2-2006 by AceOfBase]

Yeah and they should be arrested...