Staying Together "For the Kids" ???

Originally posted by godservant
We often want more instead of looking at what we already have. I have a wife who is good, giving, honest and beautiful. I learned that I was being 'western' and wanted more. I learned that I already have it good. Many have it worse than I by far. I learned that I was blind in many area's because I focussed on her faults. I learned to love my wife because she IS good enough. Everyone has their faults.

She is good enough ?
It sounds like that you are settling for 2nd best. While no one is perfect do you have any thing more then friendship with your wife ?
Why is it unreasonable to expect more from that one special person in your life ?

Many people get divorced, later re-marry, and end up miserable AGAIN!!

While thats true Im sure in some cases people get lucky 2nd time around.

Originally posted by godservant
I learned from my mistakes, made numerous changes and made sure I would never repeat those years. I have damaged my marriage and I am trying to get it back on track. For 6 years now I am very different. I DID change - it CAN be done. You CAN get the spark back.

For those where it once existed. We came together for psychological reasons and leeched on to one another out of symbiotic co-dependancy and appreciuated having someone in our lives while we ran from things in our own way.

It's as if we have finally outlived that initial need and have outgrown one another. There never was a smark. No real physical attraction, nor a soulful connection. Nothing physical and nothing spiritual. The emotional aspect was a negative one.

Western culture has a VERY high divorce rate. (snip) We are together right now mostly for the kids, but there is still that tiny little spark that wants our flame to burn again.

My advice: It sounds like your partner is pretty good. Why can't you learn to love what you DO have?

That is what I did, and my wife is working on that now.

I am glad it is working out for you...don't take this wrong, but perhaps if I'd sewn some wild oats it would be easier to settle down and appreciate the "good" I have.

I too think people give up to easily. Lord knows I have given more than my share of advice preaching to others that you don't just end it all for selfish reasons, or because your partner isn't perfect and you don't go compraing your partner to anyone else...other's parnters, other people you know, whatever, etc.

I've said you have to look past a person's faults and see the good. I believe that today.

It does NOT however mean that you can live without loving who a person is at the core. We are not talking mere behavior, habits or annoyances. We are talking about not being loved for who you are...I do not want to be "good enough" for my parnter nor find them "good enough" for me. by all appearances we certainly are, but I am dying inside and becoming depressed, and it is affecting my life-MY LIFE and my parenting.

You understand marrital strife, but I don't think you feel me on this.

Originally posted by xpert11
She is good enough ?
It sounds like that you are settling for 2nd best. While no one is perfect do you have any thing more then friendship with your wife ?
Why is it unreasonable to expect more from that one special person in your life ?

Yeah I have to agree...though I'd be happy to settle for friendship. If we had that...if we had mutual interests, friendship and conversation...we'd have something worth staying for. We don't even have friendship. What we have is a working marriage. We play our roles-we have no real relationship-AT ALL.

and I don't think we can,

For instance... I love music...something my spoue has kind of looked down on me for in the past and again since my love of music has been renewed recently. The other day I said Listen to this song...and played a song I absolutely love right now...can't get enough of it, started playing it on my guitar by accident and going COol-I know what song that is

ANyway, I said check this song out and played it and said "Is that an amazing song or what?" My spouse's reaction was to make a face and roll the eyes....and I'm like what? you didn't like it? You didn't love the guitar, the feel, the lyrics...

now it wasn't just that we don't share musical tastes, but it was the face, the eye rolling...that I can seem to do nothing right...I am a good person and parent and do my share of the household//marital obligations but who I am at the core matters NOT to them-isn't valued...I apparently like nothing of value, am intersted in stupid things, conspiracies, music, psychology, writing etc...none of which even for my benefit do they appreciate or support...I am nothing of value to them at the core...and vice versa...though I did try to take an interest...but I am sick of the #. SICK OF IT!

Originally posted by think2much

Yeah I have to agree...though I'd be happy to settle for friendship. If we had that...if we had mutual interests, friendship and conversation...we'd have something worth staying for. We don't even have friendship. What we have is a working marriage. We play our roles-we have no real relationship-AT ALL.

I guess that just proves that opposites attract. In terms friendship I have found that you usualy make friends with people who think like you.

I apparently like nothing of value, am intersted in stupid things, conspiracies, music, psychology, writing etc...none of which even for my benefit do they appreciate or support...I am nothing of value to them at the core...and vice versa...though I did try to take an interest...but I am sick of the #. SICK OF IT!

I think there is a differnce bewteen sharing interests and supporting your loved ones interests. You should always support your partners interests providing they dont do any harm to anyone.

From somebody that has been there done that both as a child AND a parent. My parents divorced when I was in the 2nd grade, they never fought in front of me I had no clue, they got back together for me about 2 years later. They eventually divorced again my senior year of high school, again they never fought in front of me but I could sense the tension many times.

As a parent, I was married to my ex wife for 5 /12 years, the first year or so it was great, then I got orders overseas (I served in the US Marine Corps) and from that point on it went downhill. We got back together after I got out and that lasted about 2 years, of those 2 years I was miserable 1 1/2 of them, I went back because of the kids, BIG MISTAKE. Fast foward 12 years to today. My kids now understand why I left the second time (she left the first) and even tho they wish we could have stayed together because they love both of us they also realize now that it would have been miserable for all involved. My kids now have a new family since I have remarried and are happy and well adjusted. They live in florida I only see them 3 times a year when we fly them up but we talk atleast once a week on sunday evenings unless one of them calls my cell during the week or we talk online.

Point to this rant: DO NOT stay for the kids, if your unhappy the kids know it and it affects them worse than if you get the divorce. The key is to make SURE the kids know that they are NOT THE ONES AT FAULT, kids always seem to think its their fault mommy and daddy dont get along. IF you and y our spouse can stand to be together in the same room (me and mine cant LOL) then that will make it alot easier on the kids so you can be there for them during school events etc...

Originally posted by xpert11
I guess that just proves that opposites attract. In terms friendship I have found that you usualy make friends with people who think like you.

Yes I think opposites attract because it offers balance...or would seem to...

I think there is a differnce bewteen sharing interests and supporting your loved ones interests. You should always support your partners interests providing they dont do any harm to anyone.

I think that is it though-besides having no common interests there is the fact none of my interests are appreciated and it's just too mch to get into the way I've been made to feel about my interests including my computer use, this site etc.

striker-your name doesn't have anything to do with strikerair does it? just curious.

thanks for your perspective-I deeply consider these issues-obviously. I am trying to think about what is best for my children in it all. Honestly.

thanks again.

damn this situation just sucks.

eloquent, eh?

Originally posted by think2much
now it wasn't just that we don't share musical tastes, but it was the face, the eye rolling...that I can seem to do nothing right...I am a good person and parent and do my share of the household//marital obligations but who I am at the core matters NOT to them-isn't valued...I apparently like nothing of value, am intersted in stupid things, conspiracies, music, psychology, writing etc...none of which even for my benefit do they appreciate or support...I am nothing of value to them at the core...and vice versa...though I did try to take an interest...but I am sick of the #. SICK OF IT!

OK, now thats just scary. This sounds EXACTLY what I am going through.

Nothing good is seen, and wrong are searched out. When there is no wrong to find, wrong is remembered. Nothing I do is good enough.

For the last 3 or 4 years, she shows NO sign of life. And the funny thing is, she doesn't just hate me, she hates everyone (except a couple of low class friends). Does your spouse do that too?

Originally posted by godservant
Nothing good is seen, and wrong are searched out. When there is no wrong to find, wrong is remembered. Nothing I do is good enough.

Wrong isn't just remembered, how about wrong is just implied and or assumed then! You know?

But in contrast to that right now, my spouse is "changing" they are "trying" to not find fault and are trying to show appreciation...and even in interest in things I'm interested in...and it feels so foreign it feels absolutely artificial. Gives me the creeps.

I fear it is too late...for even if they can now change and are trying, I can't feel it, feel nearly repulsed by it...by them...the tables are turned...other than sharing responsibilities and that being equal to the tasks at hand for the family, I can nearly find no good in them-as a person yes, but as a person with me...um...no....for other's yes

I think at this point they'd be better off without me if they are so able to change after all this time...because I don't think I can appreciate the change-it feels artificial to think someone can just flip a switch and be all into me and whats on my mind and do I want to discuss my day, my life, my interests with them because they are soo interested in my mind and thoughts and heart now though in 15 years of knowing them and 10 years of marriage it's NEVER been this way.

I state this in marriage counselling, how artifical it feels... and am told I have to TRY to believe it's all for real...very hard when I've never known this side...it's hard to FEEL it...I don't want to I think.

For the last 3 or 4 years, she shows NO sign of life. And the funny thing is, she doesn't just hate me, she hates everyone (except a couple of low class friends). Does your spouse do that too?

mine doesn't hate everyone , mine is just not a people person in general. Likes family, and is personable at work, but doesn't like to socialize much. I live near alot of inlaws... I am more likely to hate everyone around me these days!

But yeah it does sound like your spouse is unhappy in your marriage if can't find anything good, only fault and hates everyone is a sign of real unhappiness in general...not to mention a choice of freinds you don't approve of...what is she off doing with such friends...ugh I feel for you-honestly...are you doing anything about it?

I am here for my child.
No rows. My partner does'nt even suspect how unhappy I am.
Would never want another relationship.

No one can love our child the way we both do.
I would not be able to share my childs life with someone else.
While my child & partner have no idea how miserable I think marriage is I will continue.
I dont let it rule my whole life.
I am able to seperate my relationship from everything else.

If my partner did realise then life would become hell for all of us.
Ask my friends & family and they would say we are 'just so made for each other..'You cant judge anyone by appearances.
We all have different motivations for our decisions.

I cant regret my marriage because we have produced a beautiful child. I regret my partner has forgotten how good life is and only focuses on anything and everything negative.
My thoughts can not be changed though and I will continue to see the world through my eyes, its a much better place.

So for me it is different, it started with love but eventually that love was taken for granted, not cherished and not appreciated. It is dying but any talk like that is met with 'dont talk such rubbish' so I dont anymore.
I have made my peace. This is my bed....
I will stay forever if my child is unaffected.

However if one day my child is affected the rules will change. Still there will be no 3rd party. Ever.

It feels scary but liberating to admit this to someone other than myself.
I even had to reregister so I could remain anon. Wow FREEDOM!

Phew... OK here goes. How else can I say it? I recently found out that my girlfriend is pregnant. I need somewhere to vent. I hope the anonymity of this site helps. I have no clue what to do... I feel like such a hypocrite. All my posts on how I am against abortion as a means of birth control. Yet, that is the prevailing thought going through my mind.

I've been drunk for the past two days. Not healthy I know. What can I say? She's been downstate staying with her sister. Today I will see here and have... The talk. I think the best thing for me to say is what I feel. She is an intelligent girl... Very independent.

I'm just going to tell her that I will support her in whatever her decision is. Even if that means I need to grow up.....................

My question is... Does that make it sound like I am running away from the problem? I mean... The fact that I am telling her to make the decision. I'm going to hit the post button before I delete this post.

It's so easy... She just takes a pill... Problem solved?

[edit on 26-3-2006 by LostSailor]

Sorry not enough posts to u2u, yet.

LostSailor its a tough one. In the end it is your girlfriends decision that counts.
Sounds like you have good intentions. I think it is difficult to think ahead to the love you will have for your child. You can't imagine feeling that way about anyone.
I have learned that any relationships can falter even go bad. In love out of love...
Children are different. That is my one true constant. My real unconditional love.
Without my child I would feel lost.
Worth the sacrifices? What sacrifices? Life is precious to me because of my child.

I really hope things work out for you.

Originally posted by Over the moon
I am here for my child.
No rows. My partner does'nt even suspect how unhappy I am.
Would never want another relationship.

No one can love our child the way we both do.
I would not be able to share my childs life with someone else.
While my child & partner have no idea how miserable I think marriage is I will continue.

WOW. I agree though that no one can love our children like we (my spouse and I) can-together. I too would not want to share my life or my children's lives with another I do not think. It sounds like you have great strength resolve in the situation.

I am learning great resolve too....and hopefully gaining strength.

We have cut out marriage counselling for now as it seems almost as if the counsellor is biased for divorce for us. He pretty much has said so, but will try to mediate for us if we want to *try* to wortk things out and both change...but doesn't seem hopeful and is equally willing to mediate our divorce resolutions.

my spouse has also learned of my identity here and my threads/ posts here on BTS have of course upset them and caused us much striffe, and of course now I am not very eager to discuss my personal situation, but I will say because of the striffe caused new doors for communication were opened.

It seems when you truly think it's over and theres nothing left to lose, a different type of honesty about problems, perceptions and past wounds come to light and takes communication to a different level...

in turn it takes committment, and resolve to a new level...we are trying to be completely honest, resolving to truly try to love one another and respect one another and not try to fix the past but move beyond it and fix the present by buidling a different and new foundation for the future.

We are trying.

Originally posted by LostSailor
Phew... OK here goes. How else can I say it? I recently found out that my girlfriend is pregnant. (snip) I'm just going to tell her that I will support her in whatever her decision is. Even if that means I need to grow up...

My question is... Does that make it sound like I am running away from the problem? I mean... The fact that I am telling her to make the decision. I'm going to hit the post button before I delete this post.

It's so easy... She just takes a pill... Problem solved?

What pill? The morning after or abortion pill is legal in the states now? Geez I feel old not knowing this great progressive move.

Well, if this can make you "grow up" more power to you-but I've never known it to be the sole true reason a man changes and grows up...maybe attempts to...but becoming a father biologically does not always mean you naturally are able to snap out of immature and emotinally stunted life to beome a responsible parent....

um not calling you immature or emotionally stunted of course Sailor! Honest I'm not, I'm just saying...you've been drunk for two days but are willing to change overnight if needed...I'm saying...not so easy my friend that is all.

If you've been in a long emotionally vested relationship and been contemplating maturely a future together, sure an unnexpected pregnancy can be the catalyst that moves things along...

however...if you are young, or immature, or the relationship is...etiher in time together, or just as in emotionally immature...about the fun, the socialization, the sex...not the commitment...then...well...

I'm just saying when it comes to "staying together for the kids" there is a big diff between years with someone and children within a marriage...and a shotgun wedding with a girl you've known a couple of months...thats all.

what a tough situation though...I am glad to see you are mature enough to realize it is HER choice...that is not a cop out...as long as you realize you do also have a responsibility and a right to speak up and give your opinion, help her talk about her choices and the pros and cons of each as well.

All of my best to you. Tough situation-trust me, I know.


[edit on 27-3-2006 by think2much]

Originally posted by think2much
striker-your name doesn't have anything to do with strikerair does it? just curious.

thanks for your perspective-I deeply consider these issues-obviously. I am trying to think about what is best for my children in it all. Honestly.

thanks again.

damn this situation just sucks.

eloquent, eh?

as to my name, nope. Yes the situation does suck, but have faith, it will all work out in the end.

think2much, I truly wish you all the best.
Sometimes a jolt can be the answer before drastic measures.

I often wonder if I would feel so detached if we were to part.
I'm not likely to find out!

Sometimes we can feel there is no love left when in fact it is there but burried under a pile of rubbish.

As for my resolve, yes my mind is set. It could be downright stupid to some but our choices are always our own with unique reasoning supporting them.
All the best to you.

striker and over the moon-thanks to both of you.

It's not easy, but we are trying and I am finding once I really put my heart into it 100% it was much easier than when I was battling in my heart about it and not giving full effort for fear of giving any credit to the idea we could start over...build something new...not try to just patch up the past-but leave it behind.

Trying to find my faith again...and in so doing realizing righteousness is never selfishness...so if I endeavor to ever try to achieve any form of righteousness, it will be through selflessness, not selfishness.

Truly I think I got caught up thinking I deserved some selfishness or something at this point in my life...reviewing all I was denied in life...as a child, a young person, teen...then parent, spouse, a person, myself with my unique and specific needs...and I really thought if God wasn't going to give me what I need to make up for what I've been denied, then it was time to selfishly live acording to the dictates of those unmet needs myself.

I'm sure some would argue we do deserve some selfishness...that we all do... and all deserve to be happy and pursue what makes us happy...but at what cost?

Maybe it is true to an extent...but it is no way to make a marriage or family work-that is for sure, to see your spouse as the enemy to your happiness, freedom, and fullfilling life....the barrier to it all.

So I have to ask myself...what do my kids deserve? My family deserve? Myself as part of this family deserve? Selfishess or selflessness?

So I will endeavor to find balance between the two for now, giving my family what they need...my selflessness. Not just for the kids...but for us as their parents too-for their family...for our family...and hopefully it will all work out and THAT will make me happy so it is not a sacrifice, it is not a selfless act, but one that truly makes me happy.

Time will tell but I feel good about the decision and dedicated to it.

Originally posted by LostSailor

It's so easy... She just takes a pill... Problem solved?

[edit on 26-3-2006 by LostSailor]

problem solved for you! If you dont want children, its simple..wrap it in plastic or get a vasectomy...its no big deal..small procedure that can be reversed.

Now 'she is to take a pill?' RU486? or have medical procedure? wow...what a difficult choice it is for your girlfriend...but simple pill...problem solved for you?

Sorry if I sound harsh but I am sick of hearing about the poor men/unwanted pregnacies..it takes two to tango and both people need to be responsible.

You have just as much power as a man with prevention as the female does.
& if you place your trust outside yourself you are a fool...


edit to explain the fool comment: men say...oh but the female said she was taking the pill............ and they jiggy jig away. What if she isnt on the pill? or can have kids? I think this is ironic..the thread topic is staying together for the kids and here we have the beginning of the cycle... farout!




[edit on 5-4-2006 by NJE777]

Wait just a minute,

You need some more details before you judge me like that. I am completely against abortion. Although, I must say I am pro-choice right now even though I find the act wrong. I practice safe and responsible sex with my girlfriend. No matter how responsible you think you are something can happen. It happened to us. She is a 22 year old accountant still going to school. I am a 26 year old maritime student about $9000 dollars in debt with 2 more years of schooling to go.

I tried everything to save this kid. Adoption is just not an option for my girl. She can't bare the thought of carrying child for 9 months... Giving birth... Then just giving our baby away. There is no possible way either of us could give this baby a good life. Not right now anyways.

So yeah, I've been a little screwed up in the head recently. But, I told my girl I would do anything for her and support in any way as best I could. Please... Don't judge me and tell me I am irresponsible. Can I ask you this? Have you had an abortion? Or had a girlfriend that got an abortion? If not... Then you just don't know what it's like. I thought I knew..............................

If you didn't notice the question mark at the end of that problem solved quote... Geez... I feel like crap... My first born is about to get killed. That answer your question about how I feel? I know I am just as responsible for this child as the female.



[edit on 5-4-2006 by LostSailor]

I did say sorry if I sounded harsh...perhaps I am...but when I read your 'she can just take a pill... simple', I was a bit :O ... simple wouldnt be how I would desribe it.

I am sorry for what you and your gf are going through but taking a pill or medically terminating the pregnancy is no simple matter. It is a big deal and that decision rests at the end of the day with your gf...because she is the one that has to abort it from her body.

Anyway, my comments probably couldnt come at a worst time for you, but just wanted to respond to you 'simple' statement.

all the best