Staying Together "For the Kids" ???

first let me just, get something off my chest...

ARGH F@&$U()$&^&@%&*^@(*)$(*(%^*&^$)*YUR)(*)&*U%(*%

GET me the F#@&*&^%*&*!!! OUT OF THIS HELL OF A LIFE and MARRIAGE!!!!!! I'D RATHER BE SHOT THAN GO FOR MARRIAGE COUNSELING WITH THIS PERSON (but I am ...next Thursday 11am...Whoopee! Can't wait.)

Ahem...that said...(and I do feel better having vented that, thank you) despite my personal hell, what do you all think about "staying together for the kids" in a marriage?

Is there a higher calling to be self-sacrificing as a parent and offer kids a stable home with two parents and not distrupt their fragile little lives.

Sure, I know joint custody still lets them have both parents in their lives...but then theres the matter of everything changing...and their whole idea of their stability crushed for them, and their example for sucess in relationships-shot...etc

What are the pros and what are the cons for staying in it "for the kids"

Sure I know it happens everyday that people get divorced...and kids adapt and cope...but also we know from studies it DOES adversely affect them. When there is not abuse or dangerous envirnoments they need to be saved from, there is much emotional and psychological damage and rammifications of divorce...even affecting their own relationships in the future...

is that reason enough to stay?...to try?...for the kids?...for their sake? Don't say no, get out-run like the wind, just because I am obviously unhappy (understatement of the year)but really...what about the kids?

anyone? Got anything?

Staying together for the kids is a bad idea in my opinion. It's not healthy for anyone.

My parents split up last November after 22 years together. They were both deeply unhappy during those years and fought alot.

I'm 22 now and the split took a little getting used to but now everyone is so much happier. I wish they had done it years ago.

My parents divorced when I was 10, I'm now 17 and perfectly happy/healthy. I haven't seen my dad since I was about 13 though, and I don't want to. He's trying to take OUR house from us because it's in a joint-name account or something. He doesn't stand a chance while I'm alive and breathing. He hasn't paid me or my sister one penny since he left, so what gives him the ****ing right to take something he doesn't deserve?! (Theres more to it than that... Alot more. But, I won't go into it)

Anyway, sorry for getting off-topic.

If unhappy parents stayed together, then I think, personally, it would affect the child(ren) more because he/she/they would be affected by the constant arguing. It's not fair on any of the people involved.

[edit on 3-2-2006 by xeroxed88]

Eh screw the kids. If they turn out psychologically disturbed after the split, that them to a chucke cheese out of state and leave them there. Change your phone number,start over, and just make some new kids.

easiest thing to do.

Being a child of parents who "stayed together for the kids".
It could almost be called child abuse.
Think the kids do not know whats going on?
Think it don't affect them?
guess again!!!

I was lucky,I wanted out so bad...because my parents would NOT be the ADULTS;and stayed together for the kids. I got a drive in me,that I cant even describe. I graduated high school at 16. Left home at 17..been on my own (financially and every other way since then) I now at 22 hold two degrees (sociology and physics).Working on my masters,have studied at Yale and in England.

My sister and brother not so lucky. Both high school drop outs,drugs,abortions,trouble with the law. The list goes on.
This all because our parents were so wrapped up in that sad sick excuse not to act like parents and adults & "stay together for the kids". They had no time or way to properly parent!

Sorry to say, parents do not always know whats best.

Ok, I can see the general consensus so far is its better to leave a bad marriage than subject the children to the woes of it...I can understand that, especially in light of the personal testimonies of those of you who suffered through bad parenting and bad marriages...

but let me just spotlight my situation better...

We don't argue, yell or fight. Not in front of the kids and not behind closed doors. Sometimes we get a little snippy when the kids aren't around, after they've gone to bed... or in cell text msgs etc...but otherwise...no

also, as far as not having time for parenting because we are fighting or something...well, besides the fact we don't fight, praenting does not suffer in this house...it is the one thin we do well-parenting. It may be the ONLY thing we do well together...and why I am so questioning the pros and cons of staying together "for the kids." we could almost win awards for parenting-it's sickening really.

Our children aged 2, 4, 6 pretty much think the world of us and we them. We have routine and a schedule in our home...the epitome of stability. We eat usually at or around 5pm. Then it's baths, pjs and bed for reading/watching a movie (yeah, kind of spoiled with tv/vcrs in their rooms) and then Daddy or Mommy spend some quality snuggling time too if they are still awake.

Often when they wake during the night they seek one of us for snuggleing and are not turned away.

Mondays we have like a family pow-wow time where I talk about house rules, morals, behavior etc. We address problems and set goals and usually play a game of some sort. Hullaballoo seems to be the game of choice lately. It is a fun little game.

Friday nights are "family fun" nights. We order pizza and rent a dvd to watch as a family in the livingroom and have a "pizza party picnic" allowing the kids to eat their pizza on the floor while watching the movie instead of at the table etc-very exciting stuff for 2, 4, and 6 year olds.

Now before you also say...oh they are "too young" to be affected by divorce etc at their ages...you don't know what it is like to hear how excited they are to see you if it's just been all day you've been away...to think of them not seeing me for an entire week...I just can't imagine.

Sometimes I try to think how we could work out joint-custody to be we take turns in living in the house with the kids, so that they and their lives and their familiar routines are disturbed as little as possible.

The house itself being part of our family. The boys room is painted sky blue on top with white fluffy clouds. The bottom is green rolling hills. A border 1/3rd way up the wall is a tranasportation theme with cartoon bright yellow busses, red VW bug cars, airplanes etvc. bunk beds that seperate and the lower full sized one turnes into a couch-the kids love that.

My 4 year old daughter has a pink princess room. with murals on either said of her bed as if she were looking out from a castle onto her royal grounds...a dollhouse bookshelf and table and chairs to match...

The kids bathroom in blue and yellow with rubber ducky border, and rubber ducky shower curtains, bath rug, and all sorts of matching ducky decor.

and once a week they'd be expected to go live somewhere else? *sigh*

We have honestly, in dedication and love for them tried so hard to give them what we thought would be best every second of their life every inch of the way. We listen to them, teach them, love them, care for them, entertain them...but we are not over bearing...we leave them to make mistakes, fall and scrape their knee and their our consequences when they break rules or act inappropriately.

We back each other up- in parenting. What Daddy says, Mommy backs up and vice versa...usually...there are exceptions where one of us goes soft. If disrespect is show, they know Mom or Dad is likely to call them on it fast with the words "You do not speak to your mother/father like that. You do not disrespect your father/mother like that" etc. We stick up for one another because whether we believe the other deserves our respect or not, we know we both desrve our children's, and to not teach them to behave respectably would be a disservice to them anyway.

So, now that you know it's not really a matter of us being so miserable we make our children miserable...you can see why I am struggling wondering what to do...what is the best thing to do...for the kids...and is it best...or good to stay together for the kids.

I think my worst fear is that my children will grow up thinking it is normal not to share a bed with your spouse...it is normal not to talk and laugh and be affectionate with your spouse...it is normal not to have anything in common but children...it is normal not to have an intimate/personal relationship with your spouse. I hate this example we are giving.

This is where I worry is it more damage or good to stay together for them. The example. I also fear though we do not fight now...how long can one loathe another silently. We've been doing it on and off for years, and now regularly. I don't know if counselling can help.
:bnghd:

[edit on 3-2-2006 by think2much]

It sounds like you (two+ kids) have more going for you than many homes/families.

Perhaps some time spent reflecting on/reviewing the things that initially attracted you to one another would be well spent. It's quite easy to get caught up in "life" and lose focus as to what brought you together in the first place. Maybe it would be a good time to place your focus on that which bonds you together rather than that which stands between you.

By not knowing the specifics, I may be completely off track with the comments above but I feel certain that the occasional reflection on your commonalities would be beneficial, no?

I wish you the best and do realize that it's a decision only you can make.

Just my $.02 ... for now...

Ok I can see your dilemma.

Tell me this, what will your kids think when they grow up and find out that you only stayed together for them and that you didnt really get on/weren't happy together throughout their childhood? Do you not think that would affect them more? Knowing that their parents "deceived" them.

You don't want them growing up thinking that it's normal not to sleep in the same bed as your spouse. I'm sure your kids will have plenty of friends for whom this IS the case. Your children will not escape from the knowledge that it DOES happen.

My parents never shared a bedroom together for as long as I can remember. To me, it made me realise that not every marriage is as happy as it should be. When I grew older and began forming relationships of my own, I was able to apply my learnings from my parent's marraige and ensure that the corridors of communication were always clear.

During the 18 months with my partner we have never had any serious rows, never raised our voices at each other, and never left a word unspoken. I put this honest and open communication down to my parents showing me, unintensionally, how not to work a relationship.

Basically, I believe that one unhappy person in a household is like a rotten apple in a bag of apples. If it isnt removed, eventually all the apples will begin to rot.

Anyway, that's my two cents. And good luck with situation.

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
It sounds like you (two+ kids) have more going for you than many homes/families.

Yes, thats just it...we have it "made"...we have a nice little family, enough money to be comfortable-as comfortable as we are concerned with being-and have a simple life of routine...and love our kids and enjoy being a parent.

We are not drinkers, smokers, or drug users, and we don't party or have busy social lives anymore. The clothes get washed, the house is kept up, the trash is taken out the grass gets mowed in the summer...usually it's not a perfect life mind you, but it's pretty close especially for the kids...it's what many I know envy, and others strive for and a few I know nag for trying to obtain...

but if they only knew the truth...I envy so many of them for their relationships.

the biggest problem is we are not in love. AT ALL. We have love for one another, but there is also derision... we hardly like each other. Sex-when we have it-it detached, unpassionate...two people will a goal of getting off. Thank God for fantasies!

Originally posted by 12m8keall2cPerhaps some time spent reflecting on/reviewing the things that initially attracted you to one another would be well spent. It's quite easy to get caught up in "life" and lose focus as to what brought you together in the first place. Maybe it would be a good time to place your focus on that which bonds you together rather than that which stands between you.

Excellent advice...for anyone but us.

Actually a friend recently tried to give me the same advice, he said "Marriage is hard, everyone has rough times, even me. Sometimes I just have to blink my eyes for a minute and refocus on what I loved about my wife in the begining...what brought us together...what made us fall in love..." and my God...I wanted to puke.

Not because he was being sentimental or sappy, I respect that, but because...what brought us together in the first place was not love, not physical attraction, not sexual fullfillment, not even friendship...

it was more like temporary insanity

Seriously, it was like a co-dependant symbiotic parasitic need that snowballed out of control... and then melted... and vaporized into...the nothing it is now.

Originally posted by 12m8keall2cBy not knowing the specifics, I may be completely off track with the comments above but I feel certain that the occasional reflection on your commonalities would be beneficial, no?

No, (but thank you for the good advice and effort!)

I've been too introspecitve and retrospective lately and it's been detrimental to realize...when we met, I was running from something, hiding from something, fearing something...and took a wrong turn in it all and now I've been reawakened to who I was once...before the running, the hiding, the fear...and remembering who I was before...who I like to be...who I AM...and realizing it is NOT someone who is compatible, let alone "in love" with this person I'm married to...and it's very depressing.

For example, we do not talk, we do not joke, we have no private jokes. We do not have common interests, beliefs, or philosophies. We are not sexual ly compatible....and we never did or were.

I know...why did we ever marry right? I don't freakin know. Like I said I was running, I need a direction...it was a direction...it was a road...and well...no one thought it would last! including me! But we have known each other for 15 years-we have been married for 10. It should have been 2-3 years tops, but I was too afraid to cut bait and run once married and just kept trying to make the best of it.

and things have steadily improved...our relationship as a family is picture perfect as far as anyone knows...like I said many people envy me, us...but they don't know the torturous hell of hating your spouse and wanting O-U-T. We don't share a bed people! and I don't just want out so I can be free to screw around or look for someone else.

Admittedly I could have someone else if it was my intention. I mean not saying I'm so perfect I could have anyone, but if that all I wanted-it wouldn't be difficult, and for something more serious, I even have a one time lover that fell in love with me last year just in corresponding long distance-don't know how that happened, but it did...we certainly weren't trying to impress one another! we've been honest reliving our past-mistakes and all and admitting our flaws etc...but I would never pursue that because it isn't meant to be. I want to be free because I hate feeling like I'm in prison-I can't even be myself in my own home. I just want that. To be myself and be alone if I can't be accepted and loved for it.

Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
I wish you the best and do realize that it's a decision only you can make.

Just my $.02 ... for now...

Yeah I know....hard decisions to make...and today was a hard day...and sometimes I think it's worth it for the kids and sometimes I wonder if that is true...and since no one I know could fathom the true situation even if I did explain I just needed to get some imput from somewhere-and vent too I guess.

it really sucks. but I do love my kids...can I learn to be "in love" for them though...can I give them a better example...can I fall in love...can I try...for them...or is it just more selling myself out?:bnghd:

[edit on 4-2-2006 by think2much]

[edit on 4-2-2006 by think2much]

Go to marriage counselling and see if any of the probs can be fixed. People do change... not all the time..but things can work if you really want them to.

Do everything to try and make it work, it's a commitment for your children as well. I guess I share this as I have done it on my own for 7 yrs... it is a very hard road. It can be a bitter nasty experience and the children do suffer even if you censor your issues from them. I am not saying stay in a relationship if it is abusive or traumatic, but if its just that you have lost the love between each other then its worth working on to get it back. People do it all the time, yanno they work through # and they are happy.

all the best...

ps...just a tip (oh and it so valuable in hindsight!) Get rid of the other bed, sleep together and dont go to sleep on an argument...

"staying for the kids" got my cousin killed by her husband ... and brutally.

My opinion on it generally is that it's a very bad idea, the kids usually pick up on what's going on and more often than not, if ever actually, in most cases I doubt it's better for them.


[edit on 4-2-2006 by ImJaded]

Gonna be blunt... DON"T HAVE FREAKIN' KIDS UNLESS YOU ARE 100% SURE YOU CAN PROVIDE A HEALTHY FOUNDATION FOR THEM!!!

By healthy foundation I mean a 2 parent... man and woman... household. To many people these days are getting married just to have kids or something. Then they get divorced and screw up their kids. I don't know about you guys... But I can tell when I meet someone if they come from a broken family or healthy one. I can tell right off the bat. Know what? I'd say 95% of the time I'm correct in my assumption.

You don't get married and stay married to keep yourself happy.... You do it for your friggin' kids. Everyone knows you lose something when you get married. It's no damn secret. You suck it up and work out issues like adults.. FOR THE KIDS!!! Once you get married and have kids there is no "I" or "ME" or "WE." There is only "THEM."

Suck it up and be a man... We don't need anymore screwed up kids in this country. WTF is with the divorce rate in this goddam' country anyway? It's sickening.

I feel pretty passionately about this subject. Seems like 8/10 people I meet nowadays comes from a divorced, broken, sad, selfish family.

You are an individual person capable of thought, feelings, and action.

Imagine your child in your same situation. What would you want her to do? Sacrifice herself for her child?

What toll will this take on you? How can you fully concentrate on raising your children as competent, emotionally stable adults if you are a trembling bundle of nerves every waking moment?

Every tense moment, every forced smile, every deep sigh...you children are tuned into that.

For your sake, take a deep breath, cut your losses, get your stuff, and GET OUT. Every second you wait, every minute you hesistate, is one you take away from the quality of your children's lives.

(You can do it too. I had at one point. It will take inner strength you never thought you could possess. If you want someone to talk to, U2U me and I will give you my number.)

Good luck!

Why dont you just sit the person you call your wife down and brutally lay it out to her how you feel about her. See how it goes, what she thinks of it, what she says. Of what is happening and where you people are going. Maybe it wont work but atleast you will be clear amongst yourselves and maybe then understand what to do next.

From what I know I dont think women would stay long without love, they always need it in from one source or the other.

Also what impression would you want to leave for them ? Would you like them to think that you were honest enought to end your marraige with someone you lost the love for or to put it conversely that, you didnt have the mettle to fight through the adversity in your realtionship and stick with it instead giving up when the going was tough.
Your kids can take it in both ways you know and who knows they might emulate your model when they grow up as well. What you do now is not only for yourself it is also teaches a lesson to your kids about realtionships. So the choice is yours > Stay strangers or seperate.

In any case I would think it would be best to let the kids get bigger to say 5th grade and then separate, in that way I would think they will atleast have memories of a complete(proper or not) home when they grow up.

I dont know much about marriage but i do know about parents. SO thats my 2 cents.

As regards staying together for the kids, I think every situation is probably a little different and I'd advise in most cases that it's probably not a good idea. As was mentioned, the kids will pick up on every little stress in the house between you. And they DO learn from their parents how to love their future partners. It's certainly something to consider - what they're learning about adult love from the 2 of you.

Secondly, Your parenting skills deserve a gold medal! I applaud you both for making the kids' environment the priority in your lives. Bravo to you both! If only more parents did such a good job.

Next, I think what hurts kids most in divorce is the strain in the relationship between the parents and the usage of the kids as pawns to punish and pester the other parent. I almost feel that if you both could agree on certain terms, a divorce might be the best way to go. Terms such as NEVER putting down the other parent in front of the kids, NEVER fighting in front of them and NEVER using them to get to the other person. And ALWAYS work together for the best situation for the kids.

Marriage is hard. It's one of the hardest things to do. But the reward of many years of hard work is the joy and reward of a fantastic marriage. But we were in love in the beginning and our love has grown, not diminished. I commend you for going to therapy and trying to make it work. But if you cannot, I think splitting up might be the best thing.

If you do get a divorce, remember that it doesn't have to be a conventional arrangement. I love the idea of leaving the kids with the house, for example, while you and your spouse move in and out every few weeks. I think that would be the very best way to keep the kids lives as disruption-free as possible, at least for a while. You could even both 'share' an apartment and stay there while the other is at the house. You could still have a 'family' night once a week or something. A way to let them know that everything is really ok. If you continue to make your kids' happiness and stability a priority, I'm not at all sure a divorce would be the worst thing for them.

And lastly, my heart breaks for you! I cannot imagine being in your position. I wish you all the luck in the world.



[edit on 4-2-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

...it's what many I know envy, and others strive for and a few I know nag for trying to obtain...

but if they only knew the truth...I envy so many of them for their relationships.

While it seems you are aware of "what you have going", I do have to inquire as to what it is about "their relationships" that you find yourself envious of. I don't want to color your response by posing any pre-conceived personal "assumptions". I'm just curious as to your thoughts on "why" you find yourself envious of others' relationships.

Not meaning to get too personal, it's just a question.

Hi think2much.

I am going through a very similar situation and my heart goes out to you. My significant other isn't the biological father to my children, but he has been a father figure to them for the last five years and they are very comfortable in the situation we have going, and I want to get out of the relationship so bad but I don't have the guts to shake up the world they are so comfortable in.

However I have begin to realize through my situation that while "staying together for the kids" sounds like the right thing to do, I'm starting to see different. The more stressed out I get, I know the kids can feel it no matter how hard I try to hide it.

I think that if you've been going through marriage counseling, or have done other things to try and give the marriage one last chance and it still isn't working then perhaps it is time to let go. It is impossible to be 100% sure that a relationship will last before you have kids, as time goes by people change as well as their emotional needs. Kids are very empathic and soak up the feelings around them like a sponge. Of course they are going to be upset but I think that if you both continue to be great parents and show the kids that both of you still love them, they will adjust in time.

Someone told me about my own situation "The kids are young and they will recover in time, but you won't if you continue to stay in this unhappy situation." I am beginning to see that they were right.

Anyways, as I said my heart goes out to you and if you ever need a friendly sympathetic ear, feel free to send me a u2u. Good Luck!

Originally posted by LostSailor
You suck it up and work out issues like adults.. FOR THE KIDS!!! Once you get married and have kids there is no "I" or "ME" or "WE." There is only "THEM."

Suck it up and be a man... We don't need anymore screwed up kids in this country. WTF is with the divorce rate in this goddam' country anyway? It's sickening.

LostSailor my friend, now tell me how you really feel!!!!!

Originally posted by NJE777
People do change... not all the time..but things can work if you really want them to. Do everything to try and make it work, it's a commitment for your children as well. (snip) if its just that you have lost the love between each other then its worth working on to get it back. People do it all the time, yanno they work through # and they are happy.

all the best...

ps...just a tip (oh and it so valuable in hindsight!) Get rid of the other bed, sleep together and dont go to sleep on an argument...

Well, we haven't lost the love we never had...and the love we have is for one another, but not with one another. Also about changin...there is nothing left to change it seems behaviour wise...except who we are...WHO we are...so which one does that? Who commits personal fundamental intellectual suicide...for the sake of the kids...and how does one fall in love with either a facade, or by putting up one of their own...

Originally posted by Rouschkateer
What toll will this take on you? How can you fully concentrate on raising your children as competent, emotionally stable adults if you are a trembling bundle of nerves every waking moment?

Every tense moment, every forced smile, every deep sigh...you children are tuned into that.

Yes, this is a very big concern for me...I am so freakin unhappy I ...I...I can not find words to express it. It's misery. I don't walk around outwardly miserable mind you, but am exhausted trying to live this lie