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F/A-22 vs Su -35 vs S-37

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posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 07:17 PM
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this should be interesting.....two superpowers and one nearly superpower countries




posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 07:29 PM
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This thread is about to get closed in 3...2...1, Sorry but threads like this are against the rules.


[edit on 2-2-2006 by WestPoint23]



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 07:47 PM
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Apart from that I wonder what 3rd country he speaks of



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 08:14 PM
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Nearly superpower, since when is early 2020's nearly? And for the 1,807th time and this is a fact, the F/A-22 has no equal and will have no equal for 20-25 years.



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 10:57 PM
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Okay, even though this threads gunna die a horrible death theres two things you should know for future reference. This should be in aircraft and projects forum. Second, when you make a thread try including some specs about the planes, why you chose those, maybe some background info, and your opinion. Makes sure you are better off while posting. And never post a something vs something.



posted on Feb, 3 2006 @ 03:25 AM
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third Country?? I don't think any third country has any of those planes..



posted on Feb, 3 2006 @ 04:54 AM
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Originally posted by NWguy83
Nearly superpower, since when is early 2020's nearly? And for the 1,807th time and this is a fact, the F/A-22 has no equal and will have no equal for 20-25 years.


Don't be ridiculous.

Right now, the mig 29ovt/35 is better than the f/a22. The s-47 is better than the f/a22

What does the f/a22 have? Some measily 2d thrust vectoring compared to opposing 3d plus multi axis nozzles, plasma stealth, forward swept wings, advanced radar......the f/a22 doesn't even come close to matching the the new russian fighters.



posted on Feb, 3 2006 @ 05:10 AM
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The above post is almost too stupid to respond to. I only want to remind the poster that aircraft do NOT consist of their engine exhausts only, and that neither forward swept wings nor plasma stealth have left the prototype-stage by now...

You know, there´s more to find in aircraft than what they perform on airshows...


Originally posted by Daedalus3
third Country?? I don't think any third country has any of those planes..


I don´t know why, he spoke of ".two superpowers and one nearly superpower countries". Thats 3 countries for me



posted on Feb, 3 2006 @ 05:54 AM
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You sure abt that plasma stealth bit being operational on Russian fighters?



posted on Feb, 3 2006 @ 06:19 AM
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Russia sold the tech to the US because they didn't have the money to develop it. There's a huge thread all about it in the aviation forum. It's still in early development.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Feb, 3 2006 @ 06:55 AM
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Yeah, I know abt the thread, but I asked whether it was implemented or not.
Also can you direct me to the post/source that indicates the tech transfer you talk abt because of lack of funds.
Since you've read it, it will be easier for you to find through all those pages.



posted on Feb, 3 2006 @ 07:56 AM
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*tries getting post in before thread closes*

A generally accepted tactical principle is that victory will go to the side which "Fires effectively first". In terms of low visibility and moving in/out of range, the F-22 has marked advantages over the Super Flankers. Should the concept of firing first fail, and the Raptor is for some reason unable to simply disengage, it would be in severe trouble against the Super Flankers in a traditional close in dogfight.



posted on Feb, 3 2006 @ 09:27 AM
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I expect the F22 will be the best fighter out there for about 10-15 years after entering service. From about then the enemies or even friends would have planes with similair capabillity. Another 5-10 years and we are back again at where we are now. US planes which are obselete. I think this because of what happend since the F15 and F14 entered service.



posted on Feb, 3 2006 @ 10:52 AM
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well, I disagree with calling the F-14 and F-15 obsolete, though I certainly agree they are no longer the absoluter best in the world. Which, with the required standards does fall kinda close to obsolete.



posted on Feb, 3 2006 @ 11:01 AM
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Okay obselete is not the correct word for it. I shall just use aged then.



posted on Feb, 3 2006 @ 10:32 PM
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QT09,

>>
This should be interesting.....two superpowers and one nearly superpower countries
>>

>
Trolling is a method of fishing in which some form of bait, such as a fishing lure or a living fish, is drawn on a line through the water. Trolling from a moving boat is a technique of Big-game fishing and is used when fishing from boats to catch large open-water species such as tuna and marlin. Trolling is also a freshwater angling technique.

...

The first-named consists of three hooks - two large ones, tied back to back, with their barbs pointing different ways and one smaller hook tied on at the top of the shanks of the others, and pointing straight out from them. The spring-snap is generally used with dead bait; it requires deep insertion in the bait to allow the spring to act, which it will not do without some considerable resistance.
>

en.wikipedia.org...

Forgive me moderators, but the imagery of the 'hooks and dead bait' in particular was just too appropo here. After all, isn't an encyclopedia meant for public reference use?

Personally, when I want a the attention of the wee fishies, I throw in a stick of something apt to make a lot more Alka Seltzer fizzy-bubbles.

Which is of course the principle problem with the Russian approach to 'superfightering' in that they demand you pay attention to a duelist-confrontational nature rather than just throw the dynamite and drive on.

Which is peculiar because a lot of duelists will die trying to 'prove their point' to a soldier and they just don't have the prototype numbers to be throwing them away like that. Indeed S-37 is exactly that a 'Swept' #'d testbed. Of which I believe there are still just the two examples. While the 'Su-35' the Russians are currently working on is more akin to the Su-27SMK than the original testbeds of which there were also only about 10. About right for a small FSD fleet. But not for combat.

Even from a purely engineering standpoint, testbeds do not a service fleet make. Simply because all the /integration/ of weapons systems, of new FLCS codes, of radar and EW, all has yet to be done.

With the numbers of superfighters being built by /all/ nations, the reality is that the only thing which saves us from 'horde' tactics is standoff. Not the F-22 but the E-3B and E-8C which makes it's GBU-39 and AIM-120C6 'smarter'. Not the Rafale or Flubber but the SCALP/Storm Shadow and BVRAAM they carry.

How ironic then that, rather than compare 'what happens' when say a combination of No-Dong, or Shahab boosters is given SS-21 or better accuracies to make a J-10 or LCA or Shafagh threat _not have to deal with_ the standoff disparity. You make it about whose dingdong swings the most-long from the perspective of 1v.1.

Let me tell'ya bucky. We fly 200 million dollar planes into battle and the 'whose better' debate is gonna come down to AMRAAM vs. Sorbitsaya as much as MAKS vs. AIM-9X.

And 'when I'm done, I'm gone' (Winchester, bye-bye) will be the 20-50nm turnoff rule for jets whose value is so high that ONLY through _COE_ or Contempt Of Engagement tactics can they survive against the numerically superior threat which their WEAPONS LOAD dictates the 'winner by forfeit' on.

Of course, I dunno, maybe from their own peculiar perspective, the notion of being the last man 'anywhere in sight' on today's battlefield is cool.

But from the average thinking man's perspective, 8 Su-35's vs. 2 F-22 Raptors, the Raptors launch 12 AMRAAM, the Su-35 division loses 5 aircraft. The Raptors retire from the field.

Is still pretty much a 'king of his own ruins' Pyrhhic Victory.

Because tomorrow, the F-22s will be back. With another 8 AMRAAM. And 8 GBU-39. And there will only be 3 Su-35 then.

Never Bleed For Dirt. Bleed For Time. Bleed For Lives. Bleed For Victory. But Never Bleed For Nothin'. Cause that's what the 'value' of tactical ownership of DIRT is.


KPl.



posted on Feb, 4 2006 @ 02:10 AM
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Originally posted by Lonestar24
and that neither forward swept wings nor plasma stealth have left the prototype-stage by now...


Shows how much you know.

The su-47 is up for sale, and left prototype stage, and the manufacturing of plasma stealth generators has been reported to have began months ago.


Originally posted by Daedalus3
You sure abt that plasma stealth bit being operational on Russian fighters?


That's what it's designed to do...work on anything.


Originally posted by Zaphod58
Russia sold the tech to the US because they didn't have the money to develop it.


lol you wish. It was offered for purchase end of 1999



posted on Feb, 4 2006 @ 02:13 AM
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I'm still looking for the post I read it in, but they didn't sell it directly to the US. IIRC, they sold it to someone, who turned around and sold it to us. Sorry, I dont have the patience to hunt it down right now, I've got outside issues I have to deal with that take priority.



posted on Feb, 4 2006 @ 02:26 AM
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Well, i'll say it again...Russia has R-77 (equal to AMRAAM in most aspects) and R-27RE/TE has a range in excess of 130/120km which is far greater than any missile in the US inventory...

The following situation would definitly proof fatal to the F-22...

-2 F-22s engages 5 Su-35s, 8 AIM-120's are fired
-3 Su-35s are struck and 1 remains in the air (loses one engine), the rest took evasive manauvers and fooled the missles with counter-measures.
-3 Su-35's now engage the F-22's (which are now in radar range) and fire all their R-72 guaranteeing the destruction of two multi-million aircraft.

Russia believes in cheap to produce and effective aircraft while the US focusses on advanced aircraft that cost a fortune a piece...

Economically, Russian fighters will beat the American fighters by sheer numbers and economics...



posted on Feb, 4 2006 @ 09:46 AM
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What is the hit chance of the Amraam? I know the sparrow has a hit chance of 7% and the sidewinder somewhere in the 30%? I guess the Amraam has somewhere in the 10-20's% chance to hit.



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