Original post: we are told twelve went, two died on the alien's home planet. Four others decided to remained, Eight returned.
(Numbers don't add up.)

Original Post: One doctor and one of the security personnel died THREE YEARS into their visit. The doctor died of pneumonia and the security guy died of an injury. (Team member 308 was the FIRST death, a pilot, suffers a pulmonary ebolism ENROUTE to SERPO )

EBENS were able to transmit messages from Serpo to Earth, and we were able to transmit from Earth to Serpo to set up landings and the exchange by means of a communication system set up prior to their trip.
(Team didn't try to call home upon arrival, or emergency)

Original Post: The craft was very large and allowed the team to exercise. (The TL say nothing of this; making frequent references to being in "bowls")

Post #5: Athough the Eben civilization had no televisions, radios, etc., each Eben had a small device belted to their waists. This device gave orders to perform a particular task, news of pending events, etc. The device displayed a screen, similar to a television screen but in a 3-D style format.
But in Post #12: Ebe2 shows us a device and tells us everyone must wear it. It looks like a small transistor radio. (a small transistor radio with a screen and TL is not curious or shocked enough to mention the screen?)

Post #6 (referring to communications): This was a gigantic problem. It took our linguist specialists SEVERAL YEARS years to adequately establish a form of communication with the Ebens.
But in Post #12: Upon arrival TL records, " this eben speaks very good English. This eben, we call ebe2, speaks almost fluent English, with exception of not really pronouncing the letter w."
(Several Years = one day?)

The death of the FIRST Team Member is a horrid attempt, but bear with me....(please)

Post #6: We are told FIRST Team Member died in an accident. The member died instantly, therefore, no medical care was provided. Our two doctors EXAMINED the Member's body and determined the injuries were consistent with an accidental fall.

But the FIRST (308) died enroute in Post #12. TL tries to tell Ebe 1 that these guys are our doctors and must examine 308. Ebe 1 says no, because of infection. TL supposes 308 must have had some sort of infection and it could be contagious. (So the body wasn't examined for injuries consistent with a fall, nor could it have been determined the member died instantly.)

Post #6: We are told the Ebens stepped in and offered to attempt some sort of medical care. Our doctors felt the Team Member was medically dead, but allowed the Ebens to try.

The Ebens transported the Team Member's body to a remote area of the largest community (What is a remote area in the largest community?).

Eventually it is determined the body was dead and nothing could be done.
One Team Member, who was acting as a minister, performed a death service. And Ebens had a ceremony for the dead Team Member, the same ceremony used when an Eben died.

Which goes like this: after the last work period of the day, the Eben's had a "funeral." The Eben bodies were wrapped in a white cloth. Several types of liquids were poured over the bodies. Large numbers of Ebens would stand in a circle, chanting. The ceremony lasted for a long time. Finally, the bodies were placed in metal containers and buried in a remote location away from the communities. After the burial, the Ebens had a feast. Large tables of food were brought out and everyone ate, danced and played games.
(Inconsistent(?))

So inconsistent that we are told in Post 13(b) eighteen months later 308's body is being used for experimentation. TL says:

"We have allowed the Ebens to utilize 308's body for experiments."

A few sentences later he says:

"I did not authorized any experiments on the body of 308."
(Inconsistent?)

Okay Mods - grade me, critique it, ask for clarification.





Mods - help?

I don't have the quotes, but the Ebens don't have clocks, or a system of time/date, but when they first came to Earth, they arranged a time and date for them to return to pick up the team members that were to travel to their planet.

The Biggest Proof of all:

The absence of evidence does not equal the possibility of proof!

Mind if I throw down a few of mine?

Someone asked, in this thread and I'm paraphrasing, what about an anthropologist on the team, any out there, what do you think? I have a little training (chose the physical side instead, I like dealing with hard, real, evidence) in that area and more experience with strange "alien to me" earth cultures. IMHO the total lack of any significant cultural information ie. "When we first entered the village proper a group of 3 ebes approached our team. As they moved closer I moved forward and offered my hand in friendship. Boy let me tell you what a mistake! I wish someone had told me that before...the ebes take the extention of a hand to mean "I want to make you my neutral gendered DNA clone slave."! Needless to say this male and his friends weren't very happy. I found my self in the dirt with a splitting headache and only later did I learn after ebe1 stopped laughing that the ebes had extraordinary mind powers. You think human culture can be strange....what about true alien culture?

The technology issues, the most glaring is the batteries for the big time piece. Come on you have a box that pulls energy from a vacuum, it can read the energy required for any device you plug into it and you can't strip the wires from other device or better yet the ebes can build a spacecraft, why not cut a section of wire and say "Yo Ebie how about a spool 100 of the things you call guaks long and oh how about a hand full of those things we call plugs"? As for the crew member who died in transit, what no medical monitors for the earth man, yet later on the med center has everything from a "scanner to clone lab". You can clone but you can't do anything about a blood clot!

Did aliens crash in NM? If so did we make real contact? If so you can't really believe that they would let humans take possesion of their "people" and tech? What do we do for downed pilots in high tech planes? (I've done live TRAP (Tactical Rescue of Air Personel) missions) We do whatever it takes to get our pilot and destroy or remove any tech that we want to keep from others. I will give "aliens" the same credit, no way would they not get their "man/men" or their craft (no way with WWII tech could they stop modern human military let alone aliens that are thousands of years more advanced)! If you believe the story these aliens wiped out an ENTIRE race more advanced than humans! Give me a break, they crashed 2 times and couldn't mount a salvage and rescue, but they can wage a war on a scale we humans have yet to achieve?


From Posted Six 14 Nov 2005: "I do not feel that a dialogue or argument with non-believers would benefit our cause. They have the right to critizice our information, but none of them will ever be involved in the final process."

1. Why won't "non-believers" be "involved in the final process"? If this is disclosure then the final process will involve all humanity. Truth is truth. Non-Believers= Heretics, implies a religious believe system, veiled threats, implied 'cleansing', "aliens" in story use strict population control/what controls placed on man?, the non-brainwashed/uninitiated, implied rewards for quizlings, solidarity with "our cause" seems heavier than disclouser. Perhaps the truest sentence in this whole story.


From Post Seven 17 Nov 2005: Starts with mapping the planet, a little too much time spent here.

2. "Aliens" mapped the local stars ( had an on demand 3-D star chart), they would have had to map our planet to find the NM landing sight. They would have mapped their planet (need to find resources, good soil for veggies, map terran for settlement. Why map planet? Start with "alien" neto 3-D, grab hover chopper thing and explore. Makes no sense, mapping done.

Bio-sphere totally lacking. Not enough. Main priority for mission of this type would be extensive examination of life. Life more abundant worst case think deep thermal vent (harsh life finds a way).

Post Eight 29 Nov 2005: Communication with Serpo. 3 craft type.

3. Why send a message to Serpo? Crew comment that the craft they trained on was a scout, and the ship they leave Earth on is a shuttle that takes them to a mothership. Scout ship crashed, would need a mothership for long journey. Spend 9 months in an RV with 3-4 people no piss stop! Where was mothership when craft "crashed", if crash think TRAP mission. No way leave tech and crew for humans, partical weapons way over match WWII military. "Aliens" destroyed an entire planet couldn't bust their boy out of Deadwood?

Mothership had to have been 'up' if scouts are out. Gov talk to mothership not Serpo? More likely no signal sent, no contact made, "alien" admiral doesn't know how to run a flight deck, or poor attention to detail by hoaxer.

Now that I've found this thread, I'm going to add various pieces to it. I'd held off responding in the thread after a few snarks about skeptics like myself. However, since this appears to be an appropriate place, allow me to start in on the lunacy.

One of my favorite bits was the attempt at planetary geology:

Our Team contained two geologists (they were also cross-trained as biologists). The first thing our geologists did was map the entire planet. The first step was to divide the planet in half, thus creating an Equator. Then they established a Northern Hemisphere and Southern Hemisphere. Within each hemisphere, they created four quadrants.

Anonymous, as is typical with UFO hoaxers, can't make up his mind if he's dealing with a galactic civilization or not. Ebens apparently don't have a way of telling "this is the middle of the planet" and "this is the equator" and can't manage to divide the resulting spheroid into two or four pieces...

...although they do have spherical fruit (as one of the hoaxers posts in a description about what they ate.) Apparently Ebens aren't sophisitcated enough to go from "we can divide this fruit into sections" to "we can divide the planet into sections" although they somehow manage to walk downstairs without tripping and manage to get from Eben to Earth repeatedly without running into Mars or the asteroid belt.

They even have dealings with other aliens (who visit them, as the Incident In The Mess Hall showed) -- and somehow, even those aliens never took them aside and said, "Look, Eebie -- I got this great invention I wanna sell you. It's called a map, y'see? And you and me, we can make money from it by selling it to your starship pilots. Lemme show you how it works...."

No, according to Anony-Hoaxer's account, the entire galaxy has been languishing in the dark, unable to turn those nifty photos of their home planets into usable maps or even understand what they mean, waiting for the time when we humans would show up and say to the galaxy, "Hey dudes! I got this concept for you! It's called an atlas and we can use it to show your pilots and people how to get from Point A to Point B. We can make money from it! Here -- let me show you how it works...."

So you heard it here, first, folks. As soon as the government announces we've found aliens, start buying stock in Mapsco Maps. The dough's gonna roll in as soon as the aliens find out there's a device that shows them how to go from Dallas to Chicago without having to travel through Lubbock during the West Texas sandstorm season.

[edit on 12-2-2006 by Byrd]

If you watch scifi films of the 50's and 60's, you'll notice that it's full of teams who go off to other worlds. New planet? Sure! We'll all run away on a 10 year mission!

AnonymousHoaxer knows he'll get called on it if he says these are military personnel on a secret mission, so he proposes that they took people (orphans) who have no ties to anyone and who can be conveniently erased... no parents, no family, etc. Judging from the number of "secret missions" reported in the UFO community with team members composed of exactly this kind of person, there must be some sort of factory that turns out "scientists who are orphans and military members with no ties to anyone."

In the military, you're part of an organization. You have a place and a name in a structure. He's asking us to believe that military officers who are ALSO scientists and working on projects with other scientists can suddenly be plucked out of a division or company and nobody ever notices. A top-class scientist can't just "disappear" and be "sheep dipped" and expunged from every single record there is.

Because they weren't tagged from birth to be "top secret undercover people," there will be high school yearbook photos, college yearbook photos (these are scientists; they went to universities), papers, publications -- if they're good scientists of any caliber then they will have presented papers at symposia (as I did.) You can't go back, track down EVERY single yearbook and publication and club membership list and newspaper announcement and erase it. There is no way to identify every single human (and library and archive) that obtained documents like that and to go in and erase them.

People would notice if you sneaked into their houses some dark night and cut out photos from the yearbook and scrubbed signatures of "To Ronnie, best love from future genius Mimi."

On a professional level, you can't erase them because too many people will have written papers with them. In order to be a scientist of that caliber, you have to have done a lot of research. Research leaves a lot of tracks and you cross paths and interact with a lot of others. The bulk of published research has not one, but normally at least three authors and oftentimes more than that. If that document gets published (in an annals or archive), they contact you.

Now... another important point deals with human psychology. Isloating a very small group of people (in a spaceship to Eben for 9+ months) for a long period of time has very negative impact on mental health. The Navy's done a lot of studies on this, and every submariner (like my son) knows how bad it is to be isolated on a small boat (with a lot more people than were on the "Trip to Eben") for 6 months with no ports of call.

It's not quite as bad if you're on a large ship with other people to talk to. But we are presented with a small group (10 or 12), and the possibility of at least five of them being aggressive people is very strong (pilots have strong personalities, security guards don't stand down for much of anyone, and into that we throw a leader-type.)

Once they get to Eben, they will be there with no sexual partners except each other for a period of 10 years. While it's vaguely possible that they might be naturally asexual or they might be homosexual, I don't see 'top gun" pilots suddenly vowing to go without sex for 10 years (the characteristics that make an ace pilot really are associated with a LOT of testosterone.)

In any "Lost in Space" episode -- as with the Serpo Hoax -- people of any stripe can just hop on a ship and speed off for 10 months or 10 years (neatly covered by a commercial break or a scene shift) and there are no social and emotional effects and no one gets into any verbal brawls and no violence occurs between the people interacting with each other, even if there's only one or two available mates for the males of the group.

[edit on 12-2-2006 by Byrd]

Ebens lack diversity.It is impossible for beings,considering how frequently they have been moving through space and through to different planets,still not evolve to adapt and form individual characteristics and still survive.Its not possible.Also considering how old the Eben species is compared to humans.(And i trust they are claimed to be a much older race).

Considering the time the 12 team members spent on Serpo.No foriegn infections at all.I find it hard how there is not note of infection from foriegn microbes.Not to mention the heat.The team members spent some time in this heat.This does not add up.Temperatures went up to 115 F.Thats the same a death vally heat.Now i know some humans live in that heat but atleast they have supplies to survive,and enough water.How is this possible with the teammembers on Serpo.They had to save water.

Humans need a number of things to survive.Its not just water(h2O),its not just oxygen and it not just certain temperatures.Its also certain elements.Certain conditions.There are a number of things vital to longterm human survival.Noway could the team on serpo had survived for such a long period of time.

I have so much but i think i`ll stop there lol.

[edit on 9-2-2006 by blackSt33L]

[edit on 9-2-2006 by blackSt33L]

To continue on my screed ...

I'll take up on the appropiriation of Sagan later -- the kidnapping of this scientist who is conveniently dead and can't speak up for himself is offensive. But let's address the issue of their scientists.

CONCLUSION: One of the things our Earth-based scientists learned was not to apply Earth's laws of physics in a universal way.

This was Anonymous' very lame backpedaling when someone posted a very nice "gotcha" about the stupid planetary physics.

So let's talk about scientists and physics and mathemeticians for a bit:

A change in the expected physics of the universe is something exciting -- and the documentation and formulation of theories about this are the stuff that they hand out Nobel prizes for. IF it was true (and it isn't, but let's just assume that it was in the first place), there would be a lot of mathematical data and a lot of measurements that would corroborate the evidence that Something Odd Is Happening In Space.

FAR from covering it up, any real physicist/astronomer/astrophysicist/geologist/mathemetician would be zapping messages to and from colleagues, asking for equipment, making measurements, running mathematical formulas and working on the maths and algebras of this particular area of space. It would open up a huge field of research.

Any scientist would have brought back the data, discussed with colleagues (mathemeticians) and come up with a model for when and where and how the laws are adapted... and then published a lot of papers about this (or their colleagues would have.) Mathematical models would have been hammered out with physicists and multidimensional algebras would have developed to define how this space worked and how things worked there. String theory wouldn't have come along in the late 1990's... it would have been developed in the 1960's.

It's the stuff that Nobel Prizes are made of.

This was the era of the Cold War, folks, with the Evil Russkies and Crafty Castro. We were in an industrial-military arms and technology race. In addition to the theoretical and publication angle (which every scientist wants), there's also a huge set of industrial and military applications.


However, THESE scientists just sat on their thumbs and said "well, it's not like the rest of space." Just like Token Scientists in a Godzilla movie.

Originally posted by Byrd

I'll take up on the appropiriation of Sagan later -- the kidnapping of this scientist who is conveniently dead and can't speak up for himself is offensive. But let's address the issue of their scientists.

Back up ... It was Carl Sagan who talked about " a million worlds".

The kidnapping you are talking about is it not normal scientific behavior?

geological data in the first few messages was amusing, too:

The geological make up of the planet was so much different than ours. Few mountains, no oceans, some trees or something similar to trees and no other civilization except the Ebens.

So let's review some basic geology here (I know not everyone is familiar with this. I'm married to someone who majored in geology, I have an interest in geology, and I volunteer at a paleontology lab so I know a bit about the subject.)

Few mountains

In other words, no tectonic activity. The planet is inert. This implies a rocky core or a cold metal core (important point, there) -- OR that it has an erosional process that flattens mountains within a few thousand years. Since there's no water there, the erosional process either has to be Unbelievably Bad Smog, Godzilla Activity, or World-Wide Stone-blaster Sandstorms.

Oh yes, and that (we guess) not a single meteor ever hit it, either. Good karma shields, perhaps?

There's no water, either -- no oceans, some "underground rivers" that come up into a valley. Oh yes... it occasionally rains.

That would be a miracle of cosmic proportions.


Now, I know we all suffered through the hyrdologic cycle in elementary school... you remember this: the sun draws up water from the oceans, the moisture in the atmosphere collides with a cooler area and rain falls. Remember? With the bright yellow sun and the blue sea?

Well, if you don't have an ocean, how are you going to get water into the air for rain? And no, don't try the "it only rains around the rivers" explaination here on the board OR at home. You see, the moisture absorbs into the air and you need more than just a few rivers' worth of water in the air of a planet to get any rain at all. You need the ocean.

Anonymous also forgot to mention the physical effects of living in an area that's dryer than the Sahara Desert (it ages you, it dries your tissues out, etc, etc.)


You didn't forget my mentioning the rocky core/solid core of the planet, did you?

No tectonic activity means either a rocky core OR the metal core has cooled to a solid. If a planetary body has a rocky core, it has no magnetic field. If it has a cold core, it has a weak magnetic field.

Anony-Hoaxer (in his guise as Semi-Literate Leader) writes:

We got out a compass. It doesn’t work.

Compasses are minature magnets. They work if and only if a planet has a magnetic core. "Serpo -- Planet of the Hoaxers" has no magentic field and therefore either has a metal core that's cold and disoriented or has a rocky core. By the mass of the planet (given by Anony-Hoaxer), we can easily conclude that it must therefore have a cold, non-oriented metal core because it has no magnetic field.

No magnetic field means that the incoming particles and solar rays blast the atmosphere off the face of the planet rather than directing them into the poles where they just make nice auroras.

As you'll recall from our previous episode of "Stupid Science From Hoaxers", the planet is actually sitting in the "crispy critter" middle of a strong solar wind that's flowing from one star to another. A solar wind that's not blocked by a magnetic field. A solar wind that strips the atmosphere away and sucks it into the other star.

(...and the Ebens, we are told, left their homeworld for Serpo because the homeworld was being overrun by volcanos? Were they victimized in their desperate plight by corrupt Galactic Agent Planet-Sellers who told the Simple-minded Ebens... "oh, it's a LOVELY little planet. Bit of a fixer-upper with the atmosphere and the lifeforms, but I can let you have it for nine thousand Gigalops. Just came on the market and I KNOW you don't want to pass up this opportunity!!!" Can the Ebens get their money back on this dangerous piece of galactic real estate? If they sue the Galactic Agent, can we tune in to the trial on Court TV?)

As science fiction, it's so lame that it wouldn't make it past a book editor and wouldn't make it onto the SciFi Channel, although you could probably have gotten Ed Wood (writer and director of "Plan Nine From outer Space") to make a movie of it, though, if he was still alive.

[edit on 12-2-2006 by Byrd]

Anonymous makes references to "EBEs"... a term that wasn't in use in the 1960's.

He also mentions eating "C Rations."

"C Rations" were eaten in WWII. In the 1960's it was "K Rations"... as EVERYONE in the military knew.

So Anonymous, the Hoaxer, wasn't in the military, either.

Originally posted by lost_shaman

Originally posted by Byrd

I'll take up on the appropiriation of Sagan later -- the kidnapping of this scientist who is conveniently dead and can't speak up for himself is offensive. But let's address the issue of their scientists.

Back up ... It was Carl Sagan who talked about " a million worlds".

The kidnapping you are talking about is it not normal scientific behavior?

No. At one point he says Sagan reviewed their data. He also tries to hint that Sagans' death was due to his visiting the Ebens and getting bone cancer from it. He's trying to give himself credibility by making a Famous Dead Guy part of their team.

Sagan can't speak for himself, but I can speak up for him.

And I will. But there's still more to go through before I get to their obnoxious, last-minute desparate attempt at credibility tactic of tacking their tacky hoax onto a real scientist.

Oh I see ,...

Sagan did talk about " a Million worlds" , but your right in the context of Serpo , your right.

A bit more about those daffy scientists, who apparently run around on the planet doing science for 12 years. Woohoo!

Our Team brought back hundreds of samples of Serpo soil, vegetation, water and other items for testing on Earth. During our Team's exploration, they discovered numerous types of animals. The strangest was the "Beast" which looked like a large Ox. The animal was timid and never seen to be hostile.

Once they hit the planet, the Ebens become affected with the Incredible Stupidity Field as so many others have pointed out. Our Intrepid Scientists don't ask them "okay, tell us about the plaent and show us what you know using your advanced technology."

No, they're hardly interested in what the advanced civilization knows.

Instead, they run around playing Great White Hunter Bwana, investigating the planet with whatever equipment they managed to bring along with them. They "discover" bacteria (and apparently without laboratory equipment such as agar and petri dishes.) Either the Eben didn't tell them there was bacteria around or they forgot about the bacteria... and the Eben didn't look at the bacteria and say, "Oh yes. That's hypoglopper manaceritus, genetically related to the hoppinglbopper torsionotorous. Try some of it on this pestilential substrate."

And they let the Earthlings (those clever Earthlings!) name the animals because they apparently didn't have the mental energy to do so after forgetting all the bacteria on the planet and forgetting how to draw maps of the surface of their own planet.

Isn't this beginning to sound like a plot script that the directors of any self-respecting "Godzilla" movie would reject?



In the real world, when REAL scientists go into an area, they start by making contact and learning the language. They ask the locals to tell them about their understanding of the area where they live and they ask about plants and animals of economic value (or harm). Botanists will go in and ask the name of everything that's green, looks green, or might have been green at one time or another. You can see this pattern in the books published by anthropologists and scientists who lived in the early 1900's, including Margaret Mead, Franz Boas, Evans Pritchert-Brown, etc, etc.