2007 DoD Budget

Originally posted by ElTiante

Originally posted by danwild6
Honestly West Point I really don't see that as good news

The military budget is outrageous we spend just about the same amount that the rest of the world spends combined. That is incredibly excessive at the least. The budget is completely out of control and its beginning to have real consequences for our economy.

Geez, get a clue. The US devotes less than %5 of her GDP to defense.

The US economy did %3+ growth last year and today’s (2/3/06) numbers put unemployment at %4.7!

In the last five years the US economy has weathered stock market crashes, terrorist attacks, war, oil shocks, hurricanes and more and it’s still the strongest, most efficient on earth.

Actually, all above mentioned statistics are true. however that 5% figure is misleading, since government spending doesnt make up 100% of GDP (that would be communism). US spending makes up about 20% of GDP. (the military budget is 52% of all discretionary spending).

a255.g.akamaitech.net...

Originally posted by iqonx
american currency is propped up by oil trading becuase its done in dollars also lets not forget the almost 1+ trillion dollars of money which is stored in american banks by arab shieks from the middle east.

! trillion dollars eh ? Care to back this up, the figure is so far fetched it's ludicrous. Massively overexagerating figures does not help your cause.

Originally posted by mad scientist

! trillion dollars eh ? Care to back this up, the figure is so far fetched it's ludicrous. Massively overexagerating figures does not help your cause.

first of all i just said 1 trillion as a quick figure but the actaul money is way higher then 1 trillion dollars :

Telegraph UK
Saudi investors have $750 billion in the US. A mass walkout would seriously impede the US's attempts to pull away from recession.
www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2002/08/20/wsaud20.xml/

thats just the inverters alone saudi "house of saud" has between 250+ billion dollars to almost anywhere upto 1 trillion dollars :

i]Financil sense
It was reported that thousands of Saudi Arabian princes, alone, have between $500 billion and one trillion dollars in American banks and government bonds. That's just one family. Imagine if the Arab and Muslim world would adopt a two-pronged strategy: one politico-financial, the other cultural. Imagine when Muslim money and resources will be wielded as financial power.
www.financialsense.com...

saudi arabia gov+investors alone have 1 to 1.8 trillion dollars stored in america alone and then you have other arab countries especialy rich arab emirtes type countries which also have a total of 1+ trillion dollars so the total is actaully higher or close to 2-3 trillion dollars total for the arabs and this is only for the money that is accounted for arabs are not stupid they have been steatly investig money in real estate in america in the billions of dollars(see below in my quotes below). this is why america never screws with saudi arabia or puts sanctions against them becuase if they even attempt to saudi arabia will instantly pull all its money out and other muslims will too crushing americas economy. i also saw it on TV show where a saudi prince said they could withdraw all there money to defend themselves.

note that i have selected only certain paragraphs of importance from the following article :

08/21 15:35
Muslim Banks to Meet on Suit in U.S. Targeting Assets (Update2)
By Sean Evers and James Cordahi

.................................The lawsuit, which targets Islamic banks and charities, Saudi princes and the government of Sudan, may encourage Arab investors to withdraw more money from the U.S., analysts said. Investors from Persian Gulf monarchies hold some $1.2 trillion abroad, excluding property, the Saudi American Bank has estimated.




.............................Saudis in particular are worried about investing in the U.S., especially given the haphazard way in which they've been targeted,'' said Mohammed Chowdhury, head of investment administration at Bahrain-based First Islamic Investment Bank, which invested more than $1 billion in U.S. real estate during the last five years.

the actaul amount of money that the arabs have invested in property and banks is in the trillions of dollars and not just 1 like i mentioned earlier in fact its between 3-6 trillion dollars banks-accounts+property+investment+buisnesses-owned-by-arabs.

is this still a wild "exacerated claim" like you said earlier or is this enough proof for you.

[edit on 4-2-2006 by iqonx]

Actually, all above mentioned statistics are true. however that 5% figure is misleading, since government spending doesnt make up 100% of GDP (that would be communism). US spending makes up about 20% of GDP. (the military budget is 52% of all discretionary spending).

a255.g.akamaitech.net...

US Government spending at all levels (local/state/federal) is about %18 of GDP.

By historical measures, the US is spending rather small amount of her GDP on defense. The largest portion of US Federal spending is on entitlements. 500 billion is not that much of a nearly 2 trillion budget.

Regarding the efficiency of the US economy: The US has the highest rate of worker productivity and Americans work about 300 more hours a year then Europeans. Combined with a relatively low tax (though still too high IMO) and regulation burden and you get the worlds most efficient economy.

The reason so many countries hold dollars is because it's historically the most stable currency.

Originally posted by iqonx
the actaul amount of money that the arabs have invested in property and banks is in the trillions of dollars and not just 1 like i mentioned earlier in fact its between 3-6 trillion dollars banks-accounts+property+investment+buisnesses-owned-by-arabs.

is this still a wild "exacerated claim" like you said earlier or is this enough proof for you.

Yah, and seems to be getting wilder 3-6 trillion now ? The articles you posted are talking about the same thing using slightly different figures. You don't add them all together and get a grand total.
As you can see all the figures are very rough estimates, you can esaily tell that by the differences between the low and high estimates.

Originally posted by mad scientist

Originally posted by iqonx
the actaul amount of money that the arabs have invested in property and banks is in the trillions of dollars and not just 1 like i mentioned earlier in fact its between 3-6 trillion dollars banks-accounts+property+investment+buisnesses-owned-by-arabs.

is this still a wild "exacerated claim" like you said earlier or is this enough proof for you.

Yah, and seems to be getting wilder

3-6 trillion now ? The articles you posted are talking about the same thing using slightly different figures. You don't add them all together and get a grand total.

As you can see all the figures are very rough estimates, you can esaily tell that by the differences between the low and high estimates.

those where just a few i actaully have seen the total estimates and they are actaully high fact is i said 1 trillion and i have proven there is more then 1 trillion thats what really matters. and no they are not the same estimates becuase the first one is for individual muslim business and investors from saudi arabia that have stored money, the second is for the house of saud and the 3rd is for arab princes from UAE,kuwait,oman,quater etc... and from other arabs countries so they are 3 distinct groups mentioned. arabs(royal families and individual muslim investors and muslim property devolpers) have between 3-6 trillion dollars stored in america and thats a fact.

Well just because Bush requested this much doesn't mean he'll get it and I hope he won't.

Yes it does, if there is one thing a Republican controlled congress will pass it’s the DoD Budget. Now, like others have said the US spends very little of its GDP on the defense budget.


[edit on 4-2-2006 by WestPoint23]

When people throw out a number like $500 billion without mentioning the size of the US economy, it's just sophistry. Last year's GROWTH in the US GDP is nearly the same amount as this year's proposed defense budget.

" I was a sniper... You shouldn't wake ex-vets in surprise, you can get killed."

-spoken to me


WestPoint23,Only if I could take that post-adolescence angst, bottle it up, and serve it with creme brulee. You'd win the Nobel Peace Prize my friend.

I could care less if I am paying $500 or 5,000,000,000, because the psychological toll of war is exhausting. We sit here while you VOLUNTARILY go off to war to fight an offensive battle malrepresented by the United States population. Than we are expected to feel sorry for you when you lose a leg or get shot. How can we feel compassion for you when you can't ever feel compassion for yourself? How can we help you when you aren't open to learning from our experiences?

You see my friend, productivity isn't based upon beans, its based upon quality.


Agreed DanWired6 and WyredOne

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Yes it does, if there is one thing a Republican controlled congress will pass it’s the DoD Budget. Now, like others have said the US spends very little of its GDP on the defense budget.

That might very well be true however it misrepresents the situation. Its true that we spend about 5% of our GDP on the DOD budget. But the GDP is not the budget. The budget represents about 20-25% of GDP. Which means the pentagons share of the total budget is about 20-25% of the total budget.

And you know I wouldn't have a problem with that if it was spent appropriately. Namely on like I said before better traing for our soldiers and better equipment for our soldiers. Not on the F-22 which would play what role in this conflict? Or a ballistic missile defense system which may or may not work. Those systems amount to basically nothing more than corporate welfare for the military industrial complex. We need to get our priorities straight in regards to how we equip the military.

Originally posted by ElTiante
When people throw out a number like $500 billion without mentioning the size of the US economy, it's just sophistry. Last year's GROWTH in the US GDP is nearly the same amount as this year's proposed defense budget.

So thats what we want to do? Spend every new cent we get in our pocket on the military? Come on man I'm for a strong military but this is getting ridiculous. We have to face the facts the budget is out of control. We have major problems here at home that need to be dealt with.

Isn't over half the defense budget for personel? Salaries, above average living standards for a armed force, that requires volunteers instead of conscripts? Retirement for those who stay in 20 years, and medical care for all and their families? No, much of the defense budget is for social programs which would make the former Soviet Union jealous.
Then there are the "black" budgets, and who knows how many secret wings of Aurora hypersonic stealth strike fighters, or something like that.
I would rather spend too much than ever let someone else get ahead of us in some importent technology which might leave us at a disadvantage..

Sure we can out spend everybody else but what is that doing to our society. The new budget while giving huge increases in national security is slashing social programs left and right. Like I said before cutting entitlement programs is necessary because Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are almost as bad as the military on how they spend their funds. But the military should also have to tighten its belt. Education however should be getting funding increases.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Well just because Bush requested this much doesn't mean he'll get it and I hope he won't.

Yes it does, if there is one thing a Republican controlled congress will pass it’s the DoD Budget. Now, like others have said the US spends very little of its GDP on the defense budget.


[edit on 4-2-2006 by WestPoint23]

West Point the DOD budget will be passed basically in tack, its jobs whether Dem or Rep! My concern is the squandering that is going on in Iraq. We need accountablility and money needs to be spent wisely and strategically!

I am amazed at the ranker of Anti-Americanism on this web site. Forgive them for they do not realize that without the US Navy and military to keep the shipping lanes open for free commerce we would all be short of the goods and supplies we take for granted every day.

Our military spending for our size is outragious if you ask me...

With such a big army, it is no wonder we can go to war so easily.. we can crush the worlds largest army in hours. With so much force, all it would take is one power hungry individual to use the militarys power like never before.

And no. I do not think Bush is that guy.. I am just saying that it has happend before in history that large armies turn on their rulers and the people they once swore to protect..

Isn't over half the defense budget for personel? Salaries, above average living standards for a armed force, that requires volunteers instead of conscripts?

I don't know the breakdown, but I do know that soldiers don't enjoy above average living standards.

Many of them are on food stamps, fuel assistance, and other state/federal programs. Factory work in my area pays almost double the base salary a Marine recieves, and we don't have to dodge bullets down at the plant...

I would rather spend too much than ever let someone else get ahead of us in some importent technology which might leave us at a disadvantage..

Okay, that's fine. You cover my share, okay? I'd rather have food and shelter, maybe a water supply that isn't completely vulnerable...

Basically almost everything gets an increase in this new budget, including the troops, which is always a good thing. As you probably know when it comes to the military I feel bigger is better, that goes for the number of troops and the size of the budget as well, thankfully this is exactly what's happening. Between our need to expand our forces and modernize with new systems and platforms in the face of growing international rivals our budge has to increase.

Now concerning troop pay and care...

DoD seeks 3 percent pay hike in fiscal 2008

The newly proposed budget unveiled by the Pentagon Feb. 5 contains a 3 percent, across-the-board pay increase for service members, money to hire new recruiters to grow the Army and Marine Corps, and funding for major weapons platforms, airplanes and ships.

The overall budget’s request for a 3 percent pay raise, which defense budget documents point out represents a total increase in military pay of 32 percent since 2001, would take effect Jan. 1, 2008. An average O-3 would see his pay increase by about $1,657, and the average E-6 would see an increase of $1,099, according to those documents.

The defense budget also includes $15 billion for housing allowances — a 4 percent increase over last year — that defense officials said is sufficient to continue covering 100 percent of average housing rental costs for all service members.

The ’08 budget also provides nearly $39 billion for the Defense Department’s Tricare health care system for service members and their families, and an increase of about $1.9 billion over the current budget to help pay for quality-of-life improvements at military bases and installations.

Source

Strategic modernization receives the lion's share of the budget request, with $176.8 billion and 38 percent. Readiness and support will receive $146.5 billion and make up 30 percent of the request. Military pay and health care are pegged at $137 billion and 28 percent of the request. Family housing and facilities improvement is looking at $21.1 billion and roughly 4 percent of the request.

Link (Good Source)

These other sites also break down the budget in terms of spending.

Cost of Troops
Link 1
Link 2

Originally posted by ElTiante

Originally posted by danwild6
Honestly West Point I really don't see that as good news

The military budget is outrageous we spend just about the same amount that the rest of the world spends combined. That is incredibly excessive at the least. The budget is completely out of control and its beginning to have real consequences for our economy.

Geez, get a clue. The US devotes less than %5 of her GDP to defense.

The US economy did %3+ growth last year and today’s (2/3/06) numbers put unemployment at %4.7!

In the last five years the US economy has weathered stock market crashes, terrorist attacks, war, oil shocks, hurricanes and more and it’s still the strongest, most efficient on earth.

Yea I agree. The US economy has really evolved, just look at what has happened to this country over the past 7-8 years and compare it to the US economy of the 80s and early 90s. we were effected by more then, then we are now.

Anyways I read somwhere that our military spending is much more then that. Its just a matter of reading between the lines. Last year it was estimated to be at $560,000,000,000 with the largest estimate being $580,000,000,000. Still it amounts to a lil less then 6% GDP.

Also, the US military spending is supposed to reach 1trillion USD by 2010.


[edit on 042828p://1702pm by semperfoo]

great news! Of course they had better not waste or LOOSE the money(like the pentagon does every year, i was reading that they seriously just mis place over a billion dollars a year, wtf? ) I want to see the money being spent on strike units. and SUBS!!! Why do we not have more subs? they are in my mind extreamly criticle. While the need to stay on the top is urgant we also need some cheeper and more basic things. Such as equiping all the soldiers with dragon skin body armor. Making sure that our hummers are armored. Letting the 50 cal ontop of the hummer easily swivle about. Stuff like that. More robots. I want to get to a point where our soldiers can sit around in an office building with ps2 controlers going to battle across the world. Use the money to improve the little things first. Ah, im rambiling, but i just want to see small things done for our troops....ie give them #ing armor that doesnt suck! lol.