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ATS -> Pro Masons?

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posted on Feb, 1 2006 @ 07:32 PM
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Interesting to read adminstrators thread, as 2644 other people have, that this site is a 'conspiracy site and not masonic lodge'. After reading various topics, I felt that those people genuinely raising conspiracy issues were 'shouted down' by members of this organisation. The issues are not discussed thoroughly due to the defensive responses of the ATS members who are also members of freemason org.




posted on Feb, 1 2006 @ 07:43 PM
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I think this has been covered. There was drama not long before you joined, people got banned. It all got a little schoolgirl playground, was amusing to watch. Have a look around, and you might find.

[edit on 1/2/06 by Implosion]



posted on Feb, 1 2006 @ 07:52 PM
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If you see a thread and you feel that someone is 'shouting down' another member, let me or TC or any of us in moderation know, and at the same time point it out in the thread that the question is being ignored or avoided.

The board administration certainly isn't taking sides in this issue, and the masons are a small minority overall. THey're vocal, but, heck, wouldn't you want to hear what they have to say about some things?



posted on Feb, 1 2006 @ 10:37 PM
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I'm keen to see an example of this "shouting down", but I suspect it is more an eagerness by the Freemasons to correct some of the crazy, baseless stuff that periodically floats around (which has often been repeatedly addressed in the past).

I was a member here before I became a Mason, and I was always impressed in a positive way by the Freemasons here, and how they were so forthright and willing to educate and inform others about their organisation. Who else does that?



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 01:05 AM
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Well Roark... your response is typically 'defensive'....no discussion...just give me the 'proof' and then some other negative historical minimalistic approach...and sing praise praise praise...reminds me of the Howard Govt position on 'detention centres'...

Ok, I will give you an example and to be fair I will highlight the negatives on both sides...

Looking @ SR post...Satanic Ritual Abuse 'assisted' by the Vic Govt...
SR provides link and states people who raise these issues are refered to as 'crazy'...2nd point...suggests certain groups, including Masons/occultists demand proof... and further claims thread is vulnerable to being hijacked. At this point we don't know if this claim is specifically directed to masons. But we do know that SR feels posting SRA info is 'unacceptable' to mason & co...
SR sabotaged the thread to begin with...! imho

TC Admin -> 'caution to SR ats lumpng people...'
next responses ->paed everywhere ->anti sex abuse ->Crowley & Bible stance on SR-> preaching -> back on track Riley attempts to discuss/ask ques/evidence/suggests defining satanist/sex rings exist in Vic/massive coverups-> TC Admin -> 'rejects Christain sex rings/refers to bible quote '->CUG-> wants to convince Crowley isnt a satanist/illustrates majik & theory practices/compares contraception/defends using bible quotes/ SR responds->knows some good masons -> topics dont have short life -> begs the topic to get a fraction of the attn it deserves/but sidetracked/asks 'anybody even read article?'----->now blame Christianity/Masons->who SRAs? ->Wyrdeone->back on topic actually responds to topic->unsubstantiated/refers to article->next resp mentions Steiner negates article on that point->Crowley ranting/defence/explanations->look after children->CUG resp Steiner school & Crowley -> goes off into debate/learning about Christianity/God/more Crowley->more Crowley/Bible discussion->sacrifices->arguing for who God/Satan/wrong/right ->blanket accusations->wants proof of SA during Catholic Mass->back on topic->provide links govt reports/no labels/no mention of masons/different hats ->definition of satanist/ill defined->various satanist views on ritual/ideals->sex majik->anti Crowley -> secrecy ->Steiner School -> resp to proof ->defences to Steiner ->rave on Vic Govt, FC/reform -> bla bla bla bla bla -> Crowley......Crowley and more Crowley.....

one way moderation...



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 01:20 AM
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Just for readers clarity NJE777
SR =suzy ryan
and the thread here.to revue your summary
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Tho i will add in your summary and of coarse you show yourself in the best light.Where in fact your yelling at people me in particular for what reason i`m still puzzled about and to get back on topic,and when questioned about it gave an untruthful response in which you consider me stupid and as if i dont know the difference between yelling and emphasizing.Only to later in the thread to go off topic yourself?Which does`nt show in your summary?

These perpetraters of the documented crimes of SRA,what is it you propose we should all do?

Protest? petition? what?
The noose maybe around some peoples necks, now how do you propose to kick the chair out from under them?

Maybe someone can come up with an answer,maybe you?maybe suzy?maybe someone else?

I dont have an answer,nor do i have an answer for thousands or probably millions of countless needless death either by neglect or through governments doings.
Not everyone is your enemy,and i did`nt see any on that thread to you or to suzy,tho you seem to see them because we dont shout like you at others?
If you have a suggestion that would help the situation that i hav`nt thought of let me know.But all i see is you telling everyone else to shut up without giving a solution.







[edit on 2-2-2006 by gps777]

[edit on 2-2-2006 by gps777]



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 01:49 AM
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I dont think that ATS is strictly pro mason - I think that the moderators understand that there is a good number of true Masons on this site and that they are probably offended by the number of outrageous and nasty things that are said about them.

It would be different if people came on and raised realistic and acceptable questions about masons, unfortunately most of the time its just things like

"masons are evil devil worshipping baby molestors"

from people who have no idea what masonry is about.


When the real masons try to defend themselves (as is their right) the ignorant people who posted the nonsense in the first place tell them things like:

"you have no idea you are being manipulated because you are not high up enough in the degrees"

while failing to realise that because they themselves are not even masons they are proven incorrect by their own argument!

The moderators generally have a good balanced view on things round here and if they seem to be taking one side in an argument it is probably because that side is being unfairly targeted and criticised.



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 01:56 AM
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ty for your reply....

I guess from my perspective, I havent noticed any of the Shrub/Coward administration/Priests from whatever religious denominations in here jumping in everytime a negative topic is raised about them!

In some ways, it seems Mason's have better PR damage control than any of the abovementioned...



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by gps777
Just for readers clarity NJE777
SR =suzy ryan
and the thread here.to revue your summary
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Tho i will add in your summary and of coarse you show yourself in the best light.


I think you will see above ->rave Vic Govt/FC reform bla bla bla?? Is that me showing myself in a good light?????


Where in fact your yelling at people me in particular for what reason i`m still puzzled about


Is this yelling?... I repeat...that is adding emphasis...this is YELLING


and to get back on topic,and when questioned about it gave an untruthful response.


lol untruthful response? me? by all means post it up in the thread...and I will respond.


Only to later in the thread to go off topic yourself? Which does`nt show in your summary?


I responded to someone esle ty, I did not initiate going off topic! However, I will add that my 'off topic' topic was about the Victorian Govt...



These perpetrates of the documented crimes of SRA,what is it you propose we should all do?
Protest? petition? what?


Why are you asking me this???? Did I start the thread? No I did not..I attempted to discuss it. Did I suggest something had to be done? No I did not...

Now your going off topic!





[edit on 2-2-2006 by gps777]

[edit on 2-2-2006 by NJE777]



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by NJE777

Is this yelling?... I repeat...that is adding emphasis...this is YELLING

Well now others will be the judge of that.


lol untruthful response? me? by all means post it up in the thread...and I will respond.

Read it again for yourself i put up the link,and yes it is my opinion that it is untruthful


I responded to someone esle ty, I did not initiate going off topic! However, I will add that my 'off topic' topic was about the Victorian Govt...

What do you think every body else was doing then?for the exception of talking about the Vic Gov


Why are you asking me this???? Did I start the thread? No I did not..I attempted to discuss it. Did I suggest something had to be done? No I did not...

Now your going off topic!

Which is better a solution or discussion?seeing everybody on the thread agreed it does occur.








[edit on 2-2-2006 by gps777]



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 02:23 AM
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So because we're stating a point and true to our opinion automatically makes us a mason? I'm sorry, but if that's true, every human on this green/blue earth is a mason. OH NOES!!!!1111

It's true, get the facts. What do you have to base this off of?

If I say I think Terramisu is better pie, and you say Cheese Cake is better and always will be, I can disagree. Same thing if you were to say the F-16 is better than the F-22, I can shout out on you because of what I think, you may think differently, but reasoning in the end is what makes the difference, which side has the proof?

I have proof right here. It's called BELOW TOP SECRET
.



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 03:30 AM
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Originally posted by gps777



Read it again for yourself i put up the link,and yes it is my opinion that it is untruthful

I have not called you dishonest! so don't attack my integrity....
Your personally calling me a 'liar'???



Which is better a solution or discussion? seeing everybody on the thread agreed it does occur
This is a discussion forum......why don't you post this question underneath the appropriate thread.








[edit on 2-2-2006 by gps777]



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 03:37 AM
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Originally posted by Shugo
So because we're stating a point and true to our opinion automatically makes us a mason? I'm sorry, but if that's true, every human on this green/blue earth is a mason. OH NOES!!!!1111


Excuse me... I have not suggested everyone who has an opinion is a mason. Ok? I have not said that, so please don't misconstrue the issue I have raised.



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by NJE777
Excuse me... I have not suggested everyone who has an opinion is a mason. Ok? I have not said that, so please don't misconstrue the issue I have raised.


Excuse me but you have.


Your little definition of "shouting down", is a form of debate, it's what the board is about. That's how it is, that's how it goes.



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 03:56 AM
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Originally posted by NJE777

Originally posted by gps777



Read it again for yourself i put up the link,and yes it is my opinion that it is untruthful

I have not called you dishonest! so don't attack my integrity....

What do you think lumping all posters in the said thread just to cover up discussion is?


Your personally calling me a 'liar'???

See it how you like,i said it was an untruthful response,i do have a firm opinion of you as well,though would rather let you see that for yourself. I also asked why that post was directed at me?.I was quit happy to have let it go with the response in question,seeing it as a smallish problem,then i`m included in your summary to cover up something we all agreed happens,like i said your seeing enimies when their were non to you or the topic.We were only all discussing, thats what happens here.Why is it you see it differently than everyone else?




This is a discussion forum......why don't you post this question underneath the appropriate thread.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious again,though feel educating me is unessacary though you keep doing it but i`m supposed to be happy about it?

Further more this site serves many purposes,i think your the one that needs some further educucation or time here to understand that.

I gave my thoughts on the only solutions i could see which you read on the said thread,those interested in the subject of SRA will probably read that thread is "why",so i dont see you seeing other peoples views other than your own,Situation normal.Most people are like that.


[edit on 2-2-2006 by gps777]



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 04:20 AM
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Originally posted by Shugo



Excuse me but you have.

Your little definition of "shouting down", is a form of debate, it's what the board is about. That's how it is, that's how it goes.



I didn't provide a definition of 'shouting down'. I provided an overview of a discussion thread. How can you have a conspiracy discussion when you have the other side rushing in at every opportunity?

Now to set the record straight, I am not anti mason, far from it. I don't have an opinion one way or the other and I was surprised to see the defensive reactions. Now I am not a mason and haven't been on here that long and can understand Ezekiel's point about the relentless comments/allegations a mason endures.

Now from an outside perspective...the discussion was moderated on two occasions...of course, an unbiased person is going to see the other side and say..'well why wasn't that comment moderated?'...but again I refer to Ezekiel's response and can see now why that didn't happen.

It seemed to me whereas I was researching and contributing to the topic...much of the discussion got lost in an argument...due to the defensive reactions and I feel that a moderater could have intervened.



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 04:21 AM
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Originally posted by NJE777

Originally posted by Shugo



Excuse me but you have.

Your little definition of "shouting down", is a form of debate, it's what the board is about. That's how it is, that's how it goes.



I didn't provide a definition of 'shouting down'. I provided an overview of a discussion thread. How can you have a conspiracy discussion when you have the other side rushing in at every opportunity?


I'll stop you right there and say, it's a matter of debate. You can't have a "conspiracy" without it. Why? because if there's no debate, there's no discussion, no discussion, no conspiracy. No one cares, or everyone knows.



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 06:29 AM
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Originally posted by gps777



Read it again for yourself i put up the link,and yes it is my opinion that it is untruthful



What do you think lumping all posters in the said thread just to cover up discussion is?


ah...I understand now gps777, you really lost me for a while there, cos I read the thread again and was really scratching my head over your 'my response was dishonest!'... lmao... wow...'so I am guilty of lumping all posters'. That is really funny. Ah well over here jurisprudence is such... lol that one in all in..yanno sort of like the old maxim...if it moves shoot it? hmm and ur not gonna relate to that...so moving on ->

Look I am not reponsible for the way you choose to give something meaning! Ok? If I say something and you decide to run with it...then so be it!


I have a firm opinion of you as well, though would rather let you see that for yourself
ummm think I am working it out!! lol and I am glad its a firm belief...


I also asked why that post was directed at me?
um if the cap fits wear it... did I single you out??? hmmm the answer is No.. I didn't... why...yanno I don't even think ya got a mention in the overview... aw! is that it? I am sorry, I didnt mention your name...


like i said your seeing enimies when their were non to you or the topic.

Enemies is an interesting choice of word! umm...er..hun, its only a discussion room, we're not at war.... well not in a virtual sense...


We were only all discussing, thats what happens here.Why is it you see it differently than everyone else?

Well, I understand your point here, what you call defensive arguing is discussing and that is ok...might take a bit of getting used to for me though. Ya see, I haven't encountered this kind of defensive debate before...well only for perhaps 5 mins and the person being defensive realises they have a problem and excuses themself...whole diferent ball game here.... generally my understanding and experience of a discussion is when people discuss an issue on neutral ground...


Further more this site serves many purposes,i think your the one that needs some further educucation or time here to understand that

Thank you for the advice...I am sure your right! Absolutely right!!!



I gave my thoughts on the only solutions i could see which you read on the said thread
and you contributed admirably....
hun... this isnt about you ok... its about an experience...thats all



posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 06:38 AM
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Originally posted by Shugo



I'll stop you right there and say, it's a matter of debate. You can't have a "conspiracy" without it. Why? because if there's no debate, there's no discussion, no discussion, no conspiracy. No one cares, or everyone knows.


alrighty... I understand where your coming from however, I think you have taken it a little out of context so I will expand...

I refer to project serpo... just for illustration purposes, I am not going off topic

now with that conspiracy...no one from project serpo is in the camp! There maybe 2,3,4 or 5 different views on that....all discusions are neutral...and yet the debate is robust... we have a genuine conspiracy discussion.... the Masonic conspiracy is not discussed on neutral ground in the secret society section...why, yanno its almost like Us and Them scenario...




posted on Feb, 2 2006 @ 06:49 AM
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Wow! Interesting thread. Goes to show just how easy it is for things to go off the rails.


Originally posted by NJE777
In some ways, it seems Mason's have better PR damage control than any of the abovementioned...

Just for the record, all of the freemasons who post to this site do it in their own time, and no-one is speaking for anyone but themselves. Anyone speaking on behalf of a Grand Lodge would identify themselves as such, but that won't happen as Grand Lodges do not communicate that way.

There is no organized action by any Grand Lodge on ATS, and certainly no inter-GL activity. It's interesting you think freemasonry has good PR as most freemasons would regard it as poor, although some GLs are better than others.




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