Africa: the Prison Continent

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posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 03:48 PM
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Souljah...why is it that you always try to put some facts together and then you exagerate things and take them out of context and even lie trying to place the blame on the west, mostly on the U.S.?....

The west, and the U.S. is not puting a gun in the heads of south African warlords or the janjaweed Arab militias to commit the crimes these people do....

In fact the west has been trying to help the situation in Africa. Yes, there have been corporations and white people who have done crimes against people in Africa, but first of all, that is no excuse for any violence, second of all, violence in Africa is not new and quite a few governments in Africa have committed more crimes than any "non Arab nation" has caused on the continent.

Over 4.5 million people, Christians and black non-Muslims have been systematically murdered in south Africa since 1983 by jinjaweed Arab militias which are backed by the government of Sudan.

Anyone with two inches of grey matter can see through your exagerations and lies Souljah.


[edit on 5-2-2006 by Muaddib]




posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 04:01 PM
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The problem is Muaddib that US have a tendency to allowed corrupt governments be protected as long as is private US American interest int that particular country.

When the governments do human violations to their own people in order to protect the private interest our government turn their heads to the other side.

Is not the first time and will not be the last time.

Its all about politics, greed and corporate power.

Nothing new.


[edit on 5-2-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 04:29 PM
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Here's a question for you: If the Germans lived on the African subcontinent would they build a soceity like say, Uganda, is today or would it be more like Germany is today?



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Souljah...why is it that you always try to put some facts together and then you exagerate things and take them out of context and even lie trying to place the blame on the west, mostly on the U.S.?


If a leech is sucking the blood from your arm and you complain about it to your doctor and he said,

''Muaddib, why is it that you always try to draw attention to this creature and then exaggerate things and take them out of context and even lie trying to place the blame on this creature and its creed?''

What would you say?

Is it not obvious that attention needs to be drawn to the leech because it is draining the blood from you even as you speak to the doctor? For all the bad blood it draws from you in pretence of doing good it is still draining your life essence, to complain and draw attention to the fact is a statement of fact and can't be regarded as being 'anti-leech' because the leech is there in plain daylight and getting fatter by the second.

Tell you what, I'll syphon some electricity from your house and when you complain i'll claim that you're being ''Anti-Rebel-lion'' because I need the electricity that you pay for to watch tv at the detrement of yourself and your family.

Please join the discussion from a better veiw point than to simply claim we're being 'anti-west' when we're pointing out that the west seems to be anti-3rd world and millions of our people are dying in the process.

Read and check facts then come back and chat.

Thank you.


Here's a question for you: If the Germans lived on the African subcontinent would they build a soceity like say, Uganda, is today or would it be more like Germany is today?


I'm sure the Germans have already carved themselves a section of Africa. Check Souljahs map, its on a previous page.

Seeing as they can only understand so much of their colonies culture they'd have no intrest in living like its inhabitants at all, nor would they want to... They'd rather import a new BMW factory and not pay the workers enough to feed themselves so they come back for more... Its called capitalism, a failing concept that can't last as one day there won't be anything left to capitalize off of... or the people will get pissed off at their situation and revolt, which is pretty much the story of many third world nations... followed by sanctions and unfair trade practices.

Anyway, your point is?...




[edit on 5-2-2006 by Rebel_Lion]



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 04:36 PM
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this is a bunch of bull cr*p! my post gets sent to the trash can for bein 3 paragraphs too "long and hard to read", while this special gifted member is for some reason allowed to have a post 3 pages long with dozens of quotes. you moderaters dont know sh*t about moderating! but why do i bother nobody cares these days pick on the little guy with the least points in this case.



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
The problem is Muaddib that US have a tendency to allowed corrupt governments be protected as long as is private US American interest int that particular country.
.................


Marg...the problem is that there are people who are trying to blame everything that happens in the world on the U.S. and the west....

The U.S. has nothing to do with what has been happening in south Africa since 1983, where over 4.5 million people have been systematically murdered because they were a large majority Christian, because they were black non-Muslims and even some black Muslims have had to pay for the jihads waged by Arab militias backed by the government of Sudan and not the U.S....

In fact Souljah here tried to claim in another post that the U.S. has done nothing for the conflict in Dafur and instead his own president has done more. This shows me the lack of real knowledge that Souljah has on the subject, or his willingness to try to dismiss the facts and instead delve in his own hatred towards the U.S.



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Souljah...why is it that you always try to put some facts together and then you exagerate things and take them out of context and even lie trying to place the blame on the west, mostly on the U.S.?....

I am not "Trying" to put some Facts togather - the FACTS are in front of you, either you Accept them or Not, call them Lies, Exaggeration or Propaganda.



The west, and the U.S. is not puting a gun in the heads of south African warlords or the janjaweed Arab militias to commit the crimes these people do....

Actually the West just Sells the Guns - and Buys the CHEAP Resources for CHEAP Buy Prices, while they still can, because when the African People will REALLY Control their resources, they will not be able to do that anymore.



In fact the west has been trying to help the situation in Africa. Yes, there have been corporations and white people who have done crimes against people in Africa, but first of all, that is no excuse for any violence, second of all, violence in Africa is not new and quite a few governments in Africa have committed more crimes than any "non Arab nation" has caused on the continent.

And how has the WEST Helped? By throwing money at the Problem? Will then the Problem go away? Will the Corruption go away, when the NUMEROUS Western Corporations mentioned above, are also Corrupt to the Core? For every dollar the West has given to people of Africa they have stolen TEN! Yes, the goverments of Africa are also Corrupt and nobody does anything about it, to change that - on the contrary, the West throws oil on the fire!



Over 4.5 million people, Christians and black non-Muslims have been systematically murdered in south Africa since 1983 by jinjaweed Arab militias which are backed by the government of Sudan.

Yes I agree that the Janjaweed Arab Militia are backed by the Sudanese goverment and both of them are responsible for Millions of deaths, there is no doubt about that. Still the World just stands still and watches. We must not also forget that Janjaweed was formed in response to attacks on goverment installations by the two rebel movements: Justice and Equality Movement (JEM) and the Sudanese Liberation Army (SLA). Both sides have been accused of serious human rights violations also.

And please do not Exaggerate on the Numbers - or was your INTENTION to do that?


Crisis in Sudan

Sudan has been wracked by a 21-year civil war between the Arab Muslims in the north, who dominate the government, and black Africans in the south, represented by the Sudanese People’s Liberation Army, who are mostly animist or Christian. More than 2 million people have been killed, mostly due to starvation. A U.S.-backed peace deal, signed in May in Naivasha, Kenya, paved the way for a power-sharing agreement designed to end the continent’s longest-running civil war.


Amnesty International - Sudan crisis

Despite 21 years of conflicts, more than 2 million dead, 6 million forced to flee their homes, thousands of women and children abducted and/or raped and hundreds of villages destroyed and relatives still missing, not one perpetrator of war crimes or crimes against humanity is known to have been brought to justice in Sudan.

Race - not religion - is the fundamental fault line in Sudan.


Racism at root of Sudan's Darfur crisis

Sudan, like most African postcolonial states, is partially a victim of imperial cartography. Thoughtlessly carved out by the British during the 19th-century scramble to claim Africa, Sudan is a forced crucible of Muslim Arabs and black Africans. The blacks in the south either hew to their ancestral traditional African religions or have converted to Christianity. The fact that black Africans in Darfur are exclusively Muslim has not stopped the Arab Janjaweed militias and the government from exterminating them.

There is no doubt about it, that the Janjaweed Militias are Armed and Supported by the NIF - National Islamic Front based in Khartoum.

And did you ever see me support them and their Attrocities in any way?

So, how does the War on Terrorism Help to remove them? If you did not Notice, WOT creates Terrorism, not Eliminates it. And it does one more thing, which is more important - it WIDENS the gap between the two Religions of Islam and Christianity. That's why the NIF in Khartoum has such Power and with every Muslim country, that the Bush Legion invades, they become more Powerful, saying: "Look, they are Invading too - so why can't we? They are killing to, so why can't we?" Now there is something seriously wrong here, when people start to think like that.

Yes, Islami Fundamentalism gains POWER with Bush's War on Terror. Islamic Radicals get more Supporters with every bomb dropped on Muslim people. There is only one Solution to this Problem in Sudan and Darfur - Remove the curent Sudanese Regime; but we all know that is not going to Happen anyway.

Maybe US president will Just destroy Another Pharmaceutical Factory and call it a Day. Sure - that will help!


[edit on 5/2/06 by Souljah]



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

Marg...the problem is that there are people who are trying to blame everything that happens in the world on the U.S. and the west....


Perhaps the blame is in part because US can do and is capable of doing more than just sent some crumbs of humanitarian aid that actually never gets in the hand of the people that needed the most.

Perhaps it also has to do with the fact that when it comes to the Black continent the west tends to turn the heads to the other side.



The U.S. has nothing to do with what has been happening in south Africa since 1983, where over 4.5 million people have been systematically murdered because they were a large majority Christian, because they were black non-Muslims and even some black Muslims have had to pay for the jihads waged by Arab militias backed by the government of Sudan and not the U.S....


Perhaps if all the nations in the world that has taken something out of Africa during the centuries of exploitation, raping and oppression had stood up and put a stop to it before it even got to such an unprecedented amount of mass murder things would not have gone this far.

But only where US and other countries has private interest as long as the governments abide and side with the private interest and protect their investments they are allowed to do whatever they seem fit to their own people, when most of it is violation of human rights.




In fact Souljah here tried to claim in another post that the U.S. has done nothing for the conflict in Dafur and instead his own president has done more. This shows me the lack of real knowledge that Souljah has on the subject, or his willingness to try to dismiss the facts and instead delve in his own hatred toward the U.S.


Then again we most understand that when a country like the US reach the status of the one it holds in the present it is expected that it takes matters is own hands when it comes to the needs of people that have been murdered in the millions.

The fact that nobody is doing anything shows that nobody cares.

But when Israel gets a bad treat from Iran everybody starts to complain about it.

See, priorities are misplaced when it comes to less desirable third world countries where the population is regarded as inferior.

Even in this thread some has post making a point of how inferior African people are.

A shame but that is the mentality of many, perhaps more than you can imagine.

Sad.

[edit on 5-2-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 05:08 PM
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You want to talk about facts Souljah and you try to claim that "the U.S. is the country that sells more weapons to Africa or anywhere else in the world"?...

What about the following facts?





Semiautomatic Assault Weapons—What Are They? What's So Bad About Them?
Modern Descendants of the STG-44 on America's Streets
Most of the assault weapons sold on America's civilian market are semiautomatic descendants of the STG-44. Here are a few of the more popular and notorious.

Kalashnikov AK-47 and its variants. The Soviet Army's AK-47 was derived from the STG-44 shortly after the Second World War, boosted by material and personnel that fell into Soviet hands when the Red Army overran German research and engineering facilities.12 The AK-47 (in many variants, like the AKM) has become, since the 1940s, the most widely-distributed rifle in the world.13 According to The Gun Digest Book of Assault Weapons:

"The AKM was the revolutionary weapon of the 1960s and ‘70s, used by everyone from the Viet Cong to the Palestine Liberation fighters. Its comparatively short length and light weight made war more available to Third World women and children, probably not an advance for civilization."14
............
China exported few guns to the United States before the 1980s. But, beginning in 1987, Chinese rifle imports—mostly semi-automatic versions of the AK-47—surged. The flood of Chinese rifles reached 64 percent of all rifles imported into the United States in 1993 and was only cut off by the administration of former President Bill Clinton. (See table below.)15


Excerpted from.
www.vpc.org...

What kind of weapons do you see most people in Africa and other countries using?.... I'll give you a hint, they are not made in the U.S.A....

Please Souljah, your obvious hatred towards the U.S. shows through every thread that you make, and you do try to change the facts in your quest to bash the U.S.



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 05:34 PM
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Just because they are not made in American it doesn't mean that we have our own brand of arm dealers that are benefiting and profiting from the selling of foreign arms.



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

What kind of weapons do you see most people in Africa and other countries using?.... I'll give you a hint, they are not made in the U.S.A....


That's true.
Most of the weapons that flow into Africa do not come from the US or Western Europe. The majority of weapons sales to Africa are made by Russia and China and 'other European' nations which is probablt former Soviet nations. Those few weapons that are sold by the US and Western Europe often go to places like South Africa.

armstransfers.jpg

Conventional Arms Transfers to Developing Nations, 1997-2004 (pdf)

[edit on 5-2-2006 by AceOfBase]



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
What kind of weapons do you see most people in Africa and other countries using?.... I'll give you a hint, they are not made in the U.S.A....



True Muaddib, The Ak has killed more people than any other weapon in the world. Also it is worst killer in the world compared to any source, including AIDS, smallpox, cancer, plauge anything.

The Ak is rampant in Africa. That is not american. I doubt the Africans can afford the M4 etc.



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 03:51 AM
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The overall point is that Africans do not have the right of self- determination.

This is, in part, due to colonization, which kept black people, anywhere, from learning anything, aside from how best to serve white people. Accordingly, some African heads of state do just that, and Africans starve and die while whites , far from the violence required to grease the system, reap the reqards. Even the hypothetical African head of state/shill, who receives only a tiny cut of the proceeds, and his family, need armed guards.

Its a cycle that can only be exacerbated by the ignorant masses of all countries involved, black and white, who don't understand it. Some people may know the real cause for "(insert name of African country here)'s civil war," while others really believe the purported cause (ie, ethnic cleansing) and misdirect their energies. Like in this thread.

Another part of the problem stems from an indirect consequnce of 'paternalistic colonialism.' Although it breaks my heart to say it, blacks have become conditioned to the '30 pieces of silver' that comes from betraying other blacks to white people. [Call me on this if you want, but I think its true.] Of course, technically, it's the fault of the Africans in question for allowing themselves to be bought (cheaply, I might add). But, in a very real way, it's the inevitable result of the nature of historical white interference in the sovereignty of African nations.

That these problems persist is evidence that the West (silently, perhaps) condones what has taken/ is taking place.

[edit on 6-2-2006 by HarlemHottie]



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 09:26 AM
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First of all,

From 1998 to 2001, the USA, the UK, and France earned more income from arms sales to developing countries than they gave in aid.

Secondly,

Permanent UN Security Council members—the USA, UK, France, Russia, and China—dominate the world trade in arms.

Together, they are responsible for 88% of reported conventional arms exports.

As you can READ, USA, Europe, Russia and China Dominate world Arms trade, which includes Small Arms. Therefore, USA is also a BIG part of this Global Problem, which Involves 5 Most powerful Countries in the world, which do not give a Damn!


Small Arms = BIG problem

Making and selling small arms is a worldwide business. Nearly 7 million commercial handguns and long guns are produced annually. About 75% of these are made in the USA or the European Union. Other important producers include Brazil, China, Canada, Japan and the Russian Federation.
  • At least 90 countries can or do produce small arms and/or ammunition.

  • Around 16 billion units of ammunition were produced during 2001.

  • The value of small arms and ammunition production was at least US$7.4 billion in 2000.

  • The global small arms stockpile is estimated at 639 million guns. Approximately 59% of this arsenal is in the hands of civilians – over 377 million weapons. The remainder are owned by government armed forces (about 39%), police, insurgents and other non-state forces.

And let's Not Forget the Following FACTS about United States and their Foreign Business Partners, which almost always involve Human Right Violating Developing Countries in the Third World.


World Policy - U.S. Military Aid and Arms Transfers Since September 11
  • The United States transferred weaponry to 18 of the 25 countries involved in active conflicts

  • More than half of the top 25 recipients of U.S. arms transfers in the developing world (13) were defined as undemocratic by the State Department

  • When countries designated by the State Department’s Human Rights Report to have poor human rights records or serious patterns of abuse are factored in, 20 of the top 25 U.S. arms clients in the developing world in 2003—a full 80%—were either undemocratic regimes or governments with records of major human rights abuses.

Angola Rings a Bell?


"Angola has been a terrific place to do business!" - Jim Blackwell, director of Chevron

Angola is slowly emerging from a brutal war that pitched the Marxist government against rebels backed by the United States. The civil war claimed the lives of more than 500,000 Angolans and displaced another two million, ending in 2002 when rebel leader Jonas Savimbi was assassinated.

Authorized U.S. aid to UNITA/FNLA began in the mid-1970s, with a first installment of $300,000. Despite passage of the Clark amendment in December 1975 that barred military transfers, covert aid included 622 mortars, 42,100 antitank rockets, and more than 20,000 rifles. But this military support remained largely concealed from the public, Congress and the media.

Very Nice.

Futhermore,
Let's not forget how mister Bolton, the former U.S. undersecretary of state for arms control told United Nations that, "The United States will not join consensus on a final document that contains measures contrary to our constitutional right to keep and bear arms." So Bolton stated that the United States could not support a final Conference document that included:
  • restrictions on the legal trade and manufacture of small arms and light weapons;
  • promotion of international advocacy by NGOs and international organizations;
  • restrictions on the sale of small arms and light weapons to entities other than governments;
  • a mandatory review conference; and
  • a commitment to begin discussions on legally binding agreem

And let's not Forget the United Kingdon, and how 120 UK companies are involved in the small arms trade. And how UK has exported small arms to over 100 countries since 1999. Oxfam Report shows, that 71% of African countries receiving small arms from the UK were suffering political violence or low or high-intensity conflict!

Cute.

Ofcoures, by your FACTS, United States here does not Represent Any problem - but the Fact that AK47 is found in every country in the World (including our Slovenian army), is simply the Proof, that Russia and China DOMINATE the Small Arms Sales.

Lets Read on.


Small Arms Survey 2003: PRODUCTS AND PRODUCERS

Global distribution of small arms producing companies, 2002:

Europe/CIS: 500
North/Central America: 407
South America: 38
Asia-Pacific: 96
Middle East: 59
Sub-Saharan Africa: 34


Small Arms Survey 2003: GLOBAL SMALL ARMS TRANSFERS

Value of documented small arms exports by region, 2000 - Value (millions of current USD):

European Union: 869
North America: 692
Non-EU Europe: 243
South America: 104
Northeast Asia: 65
Central and South Asia: 51
Middle East: 35
Sub-Saharan Africa: 16
Southeast Asia: 8
Pacific: 4

As we can see the European Union and North America DOMINATE yet again.

White.

Catholic.

And on the Third Place, its Russia - again, White and Catholic (Orthodox) country.

Hmmmm, do we see a Pattern here?

Naaah - I guess its just me and my anti-westernism talking...

Lets move on.

Tell me this, if United States is such a BASTION of Democracy, Liberty and Justce for ALL, why such Uncertain position expressed by mister Bolton at the UN Conference on Small Arms?

Why don't the Bastion of Truth and Justice UPHOLD this Programe to reduce Global SMALL Arms sale and so that Conference on Small Arms on the brink of failure?

Why is that - if somebody could Explain that to me? Muaddib? Ace? Doctor?


UN Conference on Small Arms Concludes with Consensus

The United States repeatedly used its political capital to weaken the Programme of Action and block progress in the debate. While the United States had clearly defined the items that would receive no U.S. support, the United States did not publicly push U.S. best practices on export criteria or on export controls. In addition, the United States did not push for an international agreement on brokering (or the beginning of discussions of such an agreement).

Why don't the USA Uphlod the Following Points, which were established by the proabably ONLY People who actually CARE about this Issue, that effects everybody on this Planet - IANSA; International Action Network for Small Arms:


United Nations Biennial Meeting of States on Small Arms and the Programme of Action: 7-11 July 2003
  • Make illicit gun production/possession a criminal offence
  • Establish a national coordination agency on small arms
  • Identify and destroy stocks of surplus weapons
  • Keep track of officially-held guns
  • Issue end-user certificates for exports/transit
  • Notify the original supplier nation of re-export
  • Disarmament, Demobilisation & Re-integration (DDR) of ex-combatants, including collection and destruction of their weapons
  • Support regional agreements and encourage moratoria
  • Mark guns at point of manufacture for identification and tracing
  • Maintain records of gun manufacture
  • Engage in more information exchange
  • Ensure better enforcement of arms embargoes
  • Include civil society organisations in efforts to prevent small arms proliferation

Well that does not sound too bad - so why did mister Bolton so Blatantly REFUSE this Programe?

So, how can you PREACH to all the Other Countries that sell tons of this Weapons to Africa, when the United States does not want to support such Programme to reduce such trading, legal or illegal.

Not only that - the United States remain the MOST Armed nation in the World, in numbers of Small Arms used by Civilans.

And lets not forget, that United States are the Country with the HIGHEST Military Spending in the World.

And lets not Forget, that United States also EXPORT the Highest number of ALL Weapons in the World.

Very Nice!



Sources & Linx
Human Rights Watch
Small Arms Survey
Control Arms
IANSA



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 09:49 AM
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I suppose that if the theory holds, for which it undoubtedly will, Souljah, if the US completely stopped selling small arms, or arms period, throughout the world, someone else will pick up our slack, consequently not solving any of the problems of Africa, none.

So basically, your point(s) is(are) mute, amounting to being near-irrelevant.
Why? Because African men do the killing, the imported arms are merely the instruments used to bring about the killings. Change the way that the men think, and the imported arms bought will be turned into plowshares....

Africa is a prison because its own governments cannot get their collective acts together. The world can dump their GNPs into Africa and virtually nothing will change, and though some governments will make the best of the money, their will be the vast majority that will simply use the money dumped into Africa, as they have and do currently, to simply buy/import bigger and better toys to kill and plunder with.

Africa will change when Africa is ready to change.




seekerof

[edit on 6-2-2006 by Seekerof]



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043

Perhaps the blame is in part because US can do and is capable of doing more than just sent some crumbs of humanitarian aid that actually never gets in the hand of the people that needed the most.


Marg, I thought you were one of the people that keep saying the U.S. shouldn't get involved in what happens in other countries.

BTW you should know that the U.S. has been trying to give ultimatums for the situation in Africa to be solved, but countries like China have vetoed these attempts. The only other thing the U.S. can do is commit the military to the Dafur region, which right now we can't even contemplate.


Originally posted by marg6043
Perhaps it also has to do with the fact that when it comes to the Black continent the west tends to turn the heads to the other side.


Perhaps you should know that the warlords that are causing all the problems are black.


Originally posted by marg6043
Perhaps if all the nations in the world that has taken something out of Africa during the centuries of exploitation, raping and oppression had stood up and put a stop to it before it even got to such an unprecedented amount of mass murder things would not have gone this far.


Marg....the history of enslavement in Africa does not begin or end with western societies enslaving and trying to conquer the continent of Africa....but some people just want to forget the true history of Africa for their agenda mainly against the U.S.

Let's look at some facts about Africa shall we?....


The Africans, meanwhile, were also enslaved, first by their own people, then by the Arabs, then by the Europeans. The slavery of African people in the last millennium was one of, of not the greatest tragedies in human history. It is also known as the African diaspora. (Diaspora literally means “A dispersion of a people from their original homeland”.) Thousands of people died, and it started racial tension that still exists today. Millions of people were forced to migrate to foreign countries far away. What caused this great “diaspora”? What was the reason for of the magnitude of this tragedy? And why did God allow such a horrible thing to happen? Well, let us look deeper at the history of the African slavery.

Before the Arabs arrived, the Africans had enslaved their own people. When African farmers needed more laborers, they bought slaves, that way they increased production, at a reduced cost. The triangle trade routes would not have been possible without the cooperation of African slave traders who raided villages to capture the commodity in demand. The slaves were cut off from their kin. It was common that when slaves were kept close to their homes, they might escape. Therefore, they were often sold and transported to distant lands. Islamic Arab slave traders enslaved Africans from about the 9th to the 19th century, primarily before traders from Europe arrived. The Arabian enslavement was extensive and cruel as many of the male slaves were castrated and made eunuchs so they could not reproduce. This was despite the fact that castrating went against the Koran (the scriptures of the Islamic religion) and other Islamic laws. The Arab slave trade to the east was said to involve about 14 million blacks from the time of Muslim conquest. The Koran elevates virgins and polygamy to such a status that thousands of virgin girls were kidnapped for Arab harems. According to dogma, free men could not be enslaved, and people who were faithful to foreign religions could live under some protection. However, the spread of the Islamic empire caused the people to be more brutal and interpret the Koran in harsher ways. The Arabs began to use slaves mainly as body guards and soldiers as they competed against African slave traders who supplied European ships. Slavery grew in sub-Saharan Africa through war captives.


Excerpted from.
www.hyperhistory.net...

Do you now see why I keep trying to show people what Souljah's real intentions are? He is not trying to show the true history of Africa, he is just trying to put the blame on the west, and mainly on the U.S. as he always do.




Originally posted by marg6043
But only where US and other countries has private interest as long as the governments abide and side with the private interest and protect their investments they are allowed to do whatever they seem fit to their own people, when most of it is violation of human rights.


Marg....the U.S. has band other western nations have been trying to help the situation in Africa.....

Let's see the facts once again


The United Nations Security Council votes to adopt a resolution that threatens oil sanctions against Sudan if Khartoum does not stop atrocities in the Darfur region, in New York September 18, 2004. The vote was 11-0, with four abstentions, on the U.S.-drafted resolution that also calls for an expanded African Union monitoring force and a probe into human rights abuses including genocide. [Reuters]
The vote was 11-0, with abstentions by China, Russia, Pakistan and Algeria on the U.S.-drafted resolution that also calls for an expanded African Union monitoring force and an international probe into abuses, including genocide.


China earlier threatened to veto the measure but said it did not want to hinder the African Union, which may send in 3,000 monitors and troops to investigate and serve as a bulwark against abuses.

But Beijing's U.N. ambassador, Wang Guangya, served notice he would veto any future resolution that would impose sanctions. "That is the message," he told reporters.

Co-sponsoring the resolution with the United States were Britain, Germany, Spain, and Romania. Also voting in favor were France, Brazil, Chile, Angola, Benin and the Philippines.


Excerpted from.
www.chinadaily.com.cn...

Note who has been and who is presently wanting to veto these resolutions. The only other thing the U.S. and other nations can do is attack Sudan, which i am certain some of the same people who keep saying the U.S. should do more will change their opinion and say the U.S. is is just trying to invade another country because of oil.

Souljah is not trying to bring light to this situation, he is just trying to put the blame on the U.S. so he can continue with his bashing and hate mongering.



Originally posted by marg6043
Then again we most understand that when a country like the US reach the status of the one it holds in the present it is expected that it takes matters is own hands when it comes to the needs of people that have been murdered in the millions.


Say what now?..... Again you change your opinion. Why do you claim in the one hand that the U.S. should not involve itself in the matter of other countries yet here you claim the U.S. is expected to take matters into it's own hands?....



Originally posted by marg6043
The fact that nobody is doing anything shows that nobody cares.


Again Marg, what do you expect the U.S. to do? invade Africa? We don't have the necessary manpower to even contemplate that.... and then you will probably change your opinion once you see what happens when military action takes place...


Originally posted by marg6043
But when Israel gets a bad treat from Iran everybody starts to complain about it.


The president of Iran has called for the wiping of Israel off the map, they are seeking nuclear weapons and that will affect not only Israel but many nations around Israel.


Originally posted by marg6043
See, priorities are misplaced when it comes to less desirable third world countries where the population is regarded as inferior.


.....Regarded as inferior?.... Do you know what race does Colin Powell and Condoleza Rice represent?..... Do you know what status they have?....

Please, this has nothing to do with regarding the African nation as "inferior" as you are trying to state. There are countries that are trying to do what they can to help the situation, but the fact is that the only thing which would change what is going on in the African continent is a united military attack by many nations. Is that what you want? I am sure you will be one of the people who will later be against this sort of action.


Originally posted by marg6043
Even in this thread some has post making a point of how inferior African people are.


Who has said anything like that? and anyways there are people who are Nazis these days too, does that mean that the nations, or governments these racist people come from are all the same?...



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
I suppose that if the theory holds, for which it undoubtedly will, Souljah, if the US completely stopped selling small arms, or amrs period, throughout the world, someone else will pick up our slack, consequently not solving any of the problems of Africa, none.

You know very well, that that Will NOT Happen, since the Economy of United States is Based on Military Sector. So, US will keep making New Weapon Systems, and DUMP the older, obsolete ones to some Poor Countries of the Third World, like Africa, Middle East or Asia, which can Afford them.

So the Circle is Complete...

If United States would not be such a Hypocritical Hegemony, they would Solve African's Problems long time ago - but I guess they are just too busy saving Isreal and their own Geo-Political Interests in the Gulf Region.

Maybe nobody told them, that Nigeria has alot of Oil and Natural Gas...



So basically, your point is mute, amounting to being near-irrelevant.

In YOUR Opinion that is.



Africa is a prison because its own governments cannot get their collective acts together. The world can dump their GNPs into Africa and virtually nothing will change, and though some governments will make the best of the money, their will be the vast majority that will simply use the money dumped into Africa, as they have and do currently, to simply buy bigger and better toys to kill and plunder with.

Africa will change when Africa is ready to change.

So, the Goverment of Saddams Ex-Regime, was a Threat to the West and the United States and had to be removed, because Saddam was such a terrible Dictator and such a big terrorist supporter, right? He Exploited his people, he killed his people and he HAD to be removed right? At all cost.

If you did not notice, my Opinion is not Throwing Money at the problems of Africa and her People - because the Ongoing Corruption rooted will just swallow that money, and the suffering, death, destruction and wars will keep on going.

There are several DICTATORSHIP regimes in Africa, some of them Islamic and Fundamentalistic in Nature, that needed to be Removed - but they will probably never be removed. That is the Sad Reality of this Situation.

Africa can not Change without help from Outside.

Africa can not Change if this Corrupt Goverments are suported by Corrupt Foreign Corporations.

Africa can not Change, as long as Illegal Arms Trade Business is GREAT.

Africa can not Change, as long as it is still a victim of Silent Colonialism.



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
You know very well, that that Will NOT Happen, since the Economy of United States is Based on Military Sector.

Apparently, you are still clueless as to the US economy, huh?
You did such a 'bangup' job doing this African research, and yet still find the ability to not research your own baseless assertions and commentaries made in the meantime.

Try again, because as mentioned, your above quoted mention is baseless. How about pop some of those fancy charts and links up to back your baseless assertion, quoted above?





seekerof

[edit on 6-2-2006 by Seekerof]



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 10:22 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Africa can not Change without help from Outside.

You mean the help that it has repeatedly recieved over the past century and simply squandered away?




Africa can not Change if this Corrupt Goverments are suported by Corrupt Foreign Corporations.

Those corrupted governments were corrupted before those foreign interests and corporations arrived. Theory agains serves purpose here that if all those foreign corporations left, one-Africa would be worse off than it is, and two-those governments, who were corrupt BEFORE, will continue to be corrupt AFTER.




Africa can not Change, as long as Illegal Arms Trade Business is GREAT.

Africa can simply say 'no' to those imported arms. No one is bending them over and telling those corrupt African governments to BUY those arms. Your blame, as always, as par, is misplaced, simply the spouting of one who looks in the mirror everyday and blames everyone ELSE for his problems but HIMSELF!



Africa can not Change, as long as it is still a victim of Silent Colonialism.

Colonialism is dead. It has been replaced by Globalization. You either get on the boat or get left behind, like Africa.






seekerof



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 10:33 AM
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No, Muaddib the death of million coming from only one continent and one race it should be the main concern that should be in the minds of any civilized and capable country in the world.

Sanctions only make the problem bigger.

Remember you were the one that posted as how many Africans has die already, at least you recognized the incredible quantities of human misery in Africa.

Plus very soon arms, fights and hunger will not be the only thing that will take over the entire population and kill them all.

AIDS will take care of the ones that survive the unnecessary mass murdering going in that continent.

At least I have pity in my hart because is not much I can do as a single individual.

But I will never blame the population from the problems they have because they are just the victims.





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