Africa: the Prison Continent, page 7

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
So, what are you saying, that the Arabs are somehow morally superior because they never got around to oppressing people the way they would have liked to? I'm sure Kurds, Yezidis, Druze, Copts, countless extinct minorities, and the whole northern half of India take great comfort in the knowledge that they had the good fortune to be impoverished and forcefully converted by one race, and not the other.

I never Said it - you are putting Words in my Mouth. Slave Trade is Bad, no matter who does it, where and when. Arabs did it, Europeans did it, Americans did it, Asians did it - everybody did IT! For your information, it is still going on you know? This time the Slave owners are big Bad Corporations, which have Sweat shops spread all over the Asia, where their products are being made for petty payrole but with excellet profits. It was always like that.

I'm not saying that Europeans should be "forgiven." I'm saying that you are pretending that, because Europeans exist, no one else ever did anything wrong.

I am sorry, but the European colonizers conquered and exploited not just Africa - but also America, Asia, Australia - actually, as I said before, there isn't a continent, which the White Imperialism would not Colonize. And during the conquest and colonizaton of the new World, the Europens made a FORTUNE with exploiting Africa and America. You can see that today, when you walk the streets of London, Rome, Berlin, Amsterdan, Lisbona or Madrid. You see Centuries of Imperalism hidden in enormous Buildings, that stand as a single Monument of how much these Empires really STOLE form all their colonise to ammount such great fortune.

Incorrect. Slavery was not the reason for the economic boom. Hispaniola (the nations of Haiti and San Domingo) would be the richest island on earth, since they were covered with slavery.

Yes it was. With Cheap Labour forces, which needed almost NO PAY at all, and fresh STOLEN land from the Native Indians, what could go wrong?

First, the indians didn't have vast cotton plantations. Cotton was introduced from Egypt. Second, it didn't make an economic combination--it stifled industrial production in the South, meaning that the south could not compete against the non-slave north, and would eventually collapse during the civil war.

The Indians in America had LAND before - with the Arrivals of European colonists they didn't have anymore land, just a Bible in their hands, Sickness in their bodies and brandy in their hand. They did not have any power, they were systematicly removed and the new, and stronger Man has taken their place. It worked great didn't it? Africa Slaves on Massive plantantions of Sugarcane, Tobacco, Coffee, Cotton - and all of it, so Cheap! What a Massive Economic boost for Europe!

Second, there were no slaves or cotton in New Englad, the center of American economic expansion. The bulk of southern cotton was shipped directly to the textile centers of England. The northern US didn't have the population to consitute a real market for Southern Cotton. And once the British perfected short staple cotton farming in India in the 1820's, there was a world cotton glut. So you'll have to look elsewhere for the sources of American prosperity. Slave Cotton kept the south poor, rural, and non-competitive vis-a-vis the North.

So what was the reason for economic expansion? Exterminaton of Native Indian Population? See, for the New World to get the Europea superpowers alot of Profit, they would have to commit two genocides: Indian and African. All in the name of God. Allow me to make a comparison:

Lets say that the Islamic Chaliphate would conquer for example India, and wanted the native Indians to work for their new Lords and Masters on their Land, which was now a part of Islamic Chaliphate. But the Indians prooved to be a bad labour force, so they killed them. Almost all of them. So, they needed a NEW Work force now, and they turned to Africa, because they knew Africans had a prior history of Slavery, since prisoners of war were usually used as slaves later. So they would go down to Africa and take as many slaves need to fill the gap which was created by the systematic eliminaton of the native population.

Well, if that happened, you could not stop talking about it untill today, would you?

Economically? No. The Muslim world had a culture that was remarkably stable over time, and so never experienced the transformations due to market forces the west did.

Agreed. Muslim world did not take Slaves to improve their Economy - they took them for Servants, not for Hard Labour. And it was know, that the Muslim Empire always improved ALL OF IT, not just the Motherland, and leave the colonies to themselves - like the Europeans loved to do.

Morally? Sure. How about the fact that most of the Arab's slaves were 9 or 10 year old boys who were castrated (no anaesthesia) to serve as eunuchs. How about the fact that America, the worst pro-slavery holdout in the west, didn't totally outlaw slavery until the 1860's; whereas arab states continued to practice sex slavery for another century, only outlawing it under western pressure. You may find that situation somehow morally preferable or less oppressive. I bet a lot of readers won't, though.

I don't have a problem with that statement either - with a little add-on. Slavery is STILL Going on, this time in a much more refined and hidden form. As I mentioned before, there are slaves that work in massive sweat shops for pennies, so that big BAD WESTERN Corporations can yet again get more Profit out of their projects. That's why the World still remains as it was centurie ago: the Power shifted almost entirely to the Western Hemisphere.

Exactly. The problem was not land reforms per se. The problem is that Mugabe replaced one form of inequality with another. Instead of merely removing the whites and assigning their land to the black employees, Mugabe removed the blacks as well, and gave the ranches to his political supporters--thus preserving the inequality while only changing the melatonin levels of the repressors. Amazingly, whites are not the only ones capable of infamy.

Ofcourse the Facts that the Western Corporations really do not want any of his Land Reforms to work, for they would then loose their influence in this Regions. If you did not notice, the Corporations really own this planet - not Goverments, and they sure own Africa too. And their interst is, that Africa remains SPLIT and UNSECURE, for this is the Perfect timing to Steal all their Resources, for they are plenty of those in Africa. They do not want to see Mugabo get it all straight and solve his economic problems - they wnat him to get more Loan and to possibly get involved in a civil war, like Congo! That would be even Better - for War means even more PROFIT!

But they aren't making any progress. They are sliding backwards. At one time, their state was one of the most advanced on the continent. Best phone system, best roads, electric trains, etc. The thugs who control the government have let the infrastructure languish while they tighten their grip on all aspects of national life. The difficult problems you mention, (other than climate) are largely of their own making at this point.

Ofcourse the Minute some ruler of a foriegn country announces that he is an INDEPENDANT from the Western Corporate system, he would be systemataicly slowed down and his progress stopped. If you are not with US you are against US - they say. Like Venezuela for example. When things do not go the Western Way, then this country has to be somehow destabilized and a pro-west, pro-business leader has to be installed as soon as possible!

Again, because of Mugabe's "kleptocracy." The IMF loans money, and has been known to forgive loans and set low (non-competitive) rates, to help developing countries. Do you honestly think that if the IMF forgave all of Zimbabwe's debt, that Mugabe would do something besides running the national debt back up till it was maxed out, then stealing it?

I never said that the man is a Saint, but do you see the Enviroment he is in? Don't you see that Corruption is Tailor made for Western Exploatation of African resouces? Don't you see that the West really does NOT want to see African people owning their Resources, and owning their Land, and owning their Future, and owning their Economy - that would mean that this RICH Continent now belongs to the Black Man, and the White Man would have to PAY more for the natural resoruces he really needs!

Here's how I would advise the next president of Zimbabwe:

1. Set up a currency auction in the nation's capital. Let the exchange rate float and find its own level.

2. Redo the land reform this way. Explain that you plan to expropriate the largest quintile of farms in the nation. Current owners can choose between a cash payout, or keeping half the land and recieving a payout over 25 years in 2005 inflation-adjusted currency. "Victims" receive legal recognition that no part of the remaining farm may be seized in further reforms. The land that is seized is given first to employees of record, in 100 acre plots. The rest is auctioned to the public, with no individual able to purchase more than 100 acres. Orderly land reform would do a lot for economic stability.

3. Sign a promise not to nationalize the platinum and gold mines, in exchange for a tax on foreign mine companies. The money would be invested in infrastructure, and not maintenance of the debt. One percent of the mined product would be paid in kind, into a national bullion depository

4. Tell the IMF to go to hell. We are not borrowing any more money. Period. We are no longer printing currency, but the currency as a whole is now backed by the bullion in the depository. Continue paying on the current debt.

5. Set up a civilian police force, and disband the "security force."

6. Institute stiff penalties, including capital punishment for bribery.

7. De-nationalize the businesses that Mugabe has stolen. Don't return them to his victims, which is impossible, but set up a stock market in the nations capital, with a powerful policing agency to prevent fraud. Mongolia did this when they threw out the communists, and had a %2000 precent growth in the stock average, in one year. . . .

8. Emphasize metal fabrication as a local industry. Instead of shipping the raw materials out of country (mercantilism), develop Zimabwean wire-rolling factories, coking operations, etc. to enhance the values of exports. Allow foreign investment (but not control) in these industries.

9. Encourage meatpacking as a major industry. Goats and Pigs are quite drought resistant. Set up a rigorous meat inspection service, and export processed meat to your neighbors. With a major river on one border, this should not be economically impossible.

10. Free and fair elections. Even on local levels.

Hey, those are really Great points, I must admit!
But do you seriously think that the people of Zimbabwe and their president can do that alone? Do you really think that they could go ABOVE and AROUND the powers of the Western Corporat intersts in this Region, which are trying really hard for every effort to FAIL? As I said before, nobody in the West wants to see Africans controlling AFRICA and her Resources. That would mean that they would loose power in this region. And that is something that they will not allow to happen.


Let's see the Case of Democratic Republic of Congo

Sometimes described as the Africa's first World War - the conflcit in DRC Involved SEVEN Natons. Why? There have been a number of complex reasons, including conflicts over basic resources such as water, access and control over rich minerals and other resources as well as various political agendas. This has been fueled and supported by various national and international corporations and other regimes which have an interest in the outcome of the conflict.

It all started with the Belgian Imposed Colonial Rule, which called this region Congo Free State and they were in Power until 1960. Then, few months after Lumumba became head of the State he was Overthrown by the US alongside with European Support for their own little Cold War games and imposed their ally, Mobutu Sese Soko

Deadly Legacy: U.S. Arms to Africa and the Congo War

U.S. policy toward Mobutu was rationalized on the grounds of fighting “communism” and Soviet influence in Africa, but the U.S. was clearly more concerned with securing its own interests in the region than helping foster a stable, secure, and peaceful future for the people of Central Africa. Lying at the center of the continent, Zaire could provide the U.S. with access to important resources, transportation routes, and political favors. Over the years, U.S. rhetoric changed slightly, placing greater emphasis on democratic reform of the regime and increased attention to human rights, but in reality policy continued to focus on promoting narrowly defined U.S. economic and strategic interests.

The U.S. prolonged the rule of Zairian dictator Mobutu Sese Soko by providing more than $300 million in weapons and $100 million in military training. Mobutu used his U.S.-supplied arsenal to repress his own people and plunder his nation's economy for three decades, until his brutal regime was overthrown by Laurent Kabila's forces in 1997. When Kabila took power, the Clinton administration quickly offered military support by developing a plan for new training operations with the armed forces.

Due to the vast minerals and other resources in the region, the US backed the dictator Mobutu in his overthrow of previous leader, Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba in 1960 (Lumumba was also non-aligned in geopolitical/cold-war sense, so not seen favorably by the US.) Corruption, siphoning off massive personal wealth, a plunge in copper prices, and mounting debt led to enormous economic downturns.

Today, Mobutu is Deposed and Dead, but his legacies live on. His family holds his fortune, and his country holds his $12 billion debt. In a nation with an annual income of $110 per capita, each resident theoretically owes foreign creditors $236.

Since then there have been MANY Internal Conflicts in this Region, where all sides have been supported by neighbours. The Conflicts were FUELED by weapons sales and military training, and this weapons came from former Soviet Block, as well as from United States.

US Army Operated Secretly in Congo

The United States military has been covertly involved in the wars in the Democratic Republic of Congo, a US parliamentary subcommittee has been told. Intelligence specialist Wayne Madsen, appearing before the US House subcommittee on International Operations and Human Rights, also said American companies, including one linked to former President George Bush Snr, the father of the current US President, are stoking the Congo conflict for monetary gains.

What a GREAT Legacy, huh?

And you know WHAT?

NOBODY CARES!!!

While the People of Congo are Dying, the Networks of the Elite are Stealing their Resources! There are many resources and minerals etc being exploited, including: Water, Diamonds, Coltan, Cassiterite, Tin, Copper, Timber, for Congo is Rich in natural resources.

A number of major human rights groups have charged that some Multinational Corporations from Rich Nations have been PROFITING from the War and have developed “elite networks” of key political, military, and business elites to plunder the Congo's natural resources.

That sure does HELP the African People and the People of Congo to end the Suffering, end the endless Civil Wars and start CONTROLLING their Continent and their own WEALTH!

And the POWER yet again remains in the Hands of the WHITE MAN, while the BLACK MAN is shooting and killing himself.

UN Cuts Details of Western Profiteers from Congo Report

Last October [2002], the panel accused 85 companies of breaching OECD standards through their business activities. Rape, murder, torture and other human rights abuses followed the scramble to exploit Congo's wealth after war exploded in 1998.

For example the trade in coltan, a rare mineral used in computers and mobile phones, had social effects “akin to slavery”, the panel said. But no Western government had investigated the companies alleged to have links with such abuses. Some, including ones from the UK, US, Belgium and Germany, had lobbied to have their companies' names cleared from the “list of shame”.

“Many governments overtly or covertly exerted pressure on the panel and the Security Council to exonerate their companies,” Ms Feeney said. Some companies gave legitimate explanations for their business in Congo, or pulled out. But lawyers for others challenge the panel's findings, often capitalising on errors in earlier reports as proof of unreliability.

In the report this week, the cases against 48 companies are “resolved” and requiring “no further action”.

And then you still have the Guts to start BLAMING African People for their Suffering? How can they Remove their Own Rotten Politicans, and Rotten Goverment and Rotten Dictators, when the Entire World does not Want them to? How can they remove the Corruption from their own Contient, when the Corruption RUNS THE WORLD? And it is not the Corruption of the Muslims World...

MEANWHILE...

Oxfam - The human tragedy of the conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo

• More than two million people are internally displaced; of these, over 50 per cent are in eastern DRC. More than one million of the displaced have received absolutely no outside assistance.
  
  
• It is estimated that up to 2.5 million people in DRC have died since the outbreak of the war, many from preventable diseases.
  
  
• At least 37 per cent of the population, approximately 18.5 million people, have no access to any kind of formal health care.
  
  
• 16 million people have critical food needs.
  
  
• There are 2,056 doctors for a population of 50 million; of these, 930 are in Kinshasa.
  
  
• Infant mortality rates in the east of the country have in places reached 41 per cent per year.
  
  
• Severe malnutrition rates among children under five have reached 30 per cent in some areas.
  
  
• National maternal mortality is 1837 per 100,000 live births, one of the worst in the world. Rates as high as 3,000/100,000 live births have been recorded in eastern DRC.
  
  
• DRC is ranked 152nd on the UNDP Human Development index of 174 countries: a fall of 12 places since 1992.
  
  
• 2.5 million people in Kinshasa live on less than US$1 per day. In some parts of eastern DRC, people are living on US$0.18 per day.
  
  
• 80 per cent of families in rural areas of the two Kivu Provinces have been displaced at least once in the past five years.
  
  
• There are more than 10,000 child soldiers. Over 15 per cent of newly recruited combatants are children under the age of 18. A substantial number are under the age of 12.
  
  
• Officially, between 800,000 and 900,000 children have been orphaned by AIDS.
  
  
• 40 per cent of health infrastructure has been destroyed in Masisi, North Kivu.
  
  
• Only 45 per cent of people have access to safe drinking water. In some rural areas, this is as low as three per cent.
  
  
• Four out of ten children are not in school. 400,000 displaced children have no access to education.
  
  
• Of 145,000 km of roads, no more than 2,500km are asphalt.

So - why is it again, that the WESTERN Media Ignores this Conflict?

Just because the Africans Dont want to Liberate themselves right?

Or is it, because NOBODY CARES?

Originally posted by Souljah

The Indians in America had LAND before - with the Arrivals of European colonists they didn't have anymore land, just a Bible in their hands, Sickness in their bodies and brandy in their hand.

What good does LAND do you without the ability to farm it? What good do minerals do you without the means to extract them? Do you have any idea what the life was like here before Europeans came to the USA? I guess the Indians should have taken your advice and held unto all that useless uncultivated land, instead of selling Rhode Island to the the whites (who are they to prefer guns to help them hunt food more effectively to LAND, since capitalism is just another evil of the white man, it was really STOLEN. Right?). Even the Plains Indian culture was only possible because of the horse, a European import. The Indians that Christianized mostly intermarried and were absorbed into the white population. If one prefers to remain in their own stone age tribal religion and culture whose fault is that?

Originally posted by SouljahThey did not have any power, they were systematicly removed and the new, and stronger Man has taken their place. It worked great didn't it? Africa Slaves on Massive plantantions of Sugarcane, Tobacco, Coffee, Cotton - and all of it, so Cheap! What a Massive Economic boost for Europe!

You know you Africans should stop oppressing the Middle East. Those ancient Egyptians, who Afrocentrists insist were black, invaded Palestine and the other parts of the Middle East and took slaves and exploited its natural wealth. That is why the Middle East is so poor now (despite all the oil), nothing to do with Islam or how the societies have chosen to govern themselves (or if there is, then that is your fault also) since the Egyptians left. You need to pay reparations for this, and feel guilty about it, forever. Make sure to create whole educational departments to study how all government corruption, social ills (diabetes, depression, etc.), and negative news events in the Middle East are directly the fault of every black living today.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 4-2-2006 by Paul of Nisbis]

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
-As a footnote, isn't it funny how Belgium is widely perceived as being far more "PC" than the USA. Most of the really brutal fighting in 1960 was actually coming from Belgian paratroopers. I think they were accused of some pretty horrid atrocities, in the direction of war crimes. But as you say, the focus is on the USA and its corporate interests.

Well you are Right - I shouldn't Ignore the Role of Belgium, since they also Slaughtered thousands of African people when they ruled the Colony of Kongo in the Imperial years of late 19th century. Again, the Role of Congo was taken by mister Sese Seko, which was BACKED by the US. Is that Better?

SINCE the 1998 overthrow of Mubuto, there have been numerous AFRICAN nations sending troops into Congo. Several have been parts of UN and regional peacekeeping forces. The others have acted unilaterally, and been widely accused of plundering the diamond and gold resources of Congo.

Well I bet their Share is as Big as the Western Corporations, which are stealing Natural resources from Congo as we speak. So, I don't think you bothered to read any of the external articles I provided, I guess. Again you are ignoring the CURRENT Role of the West in the African Crisis, which is nothing else then Innocent. For your information, there are 85 companies and 54 individuals involved in the pillaging of Congo: Barclays Bank, Bayer AG, De Beers diamond company, the Cabot Corporation, Oryx Natural Resource. The list includes four Belgian diamond firms and the Belgian Groupe George Forrest mining operation, which is in partnership with the OM Group, based in Cleveland, Ohio. And ofcourse the Partners from South Africa - but we already know, that the White Man rules South Africa.

Diamonds from Kisangani, for example, are marketed by criminal networks and the profit laundered through the purchase of large quantities of sugar, soap, cloth and medicines from Dubai, thereby devastating local industries.

Some of those nations include: Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda, Chad, Namibia, Angola and Zimbabwe. (Surprising to me, in view of what a basket-case Mugabe's own nation is . . . .)

So, what does the Good Old West do in this Case?

EXPLOIT THE SITUATION - YET AGAIN!

Africa: U.S. Covert Action Exposed

Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-Ga.) chaired the hearing, "Covert Action in Africa: A Smoking Gun in Washington, D.C.," and led the voices of castigation that claimed the U.S. Government, the UN, private militias and western economic interests possessed complete knowledge of pending civil unrest in Africa and fed the fray between African nations. Their aim was to use war, disease, hunger and poverty as covers while continuing the centuries-old practice of rape and exploitation of the continent's human and mineral resources, testimonies charged.

Among those named as collaborators during the daylong hearing were U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, former U.S. President Bill Clinton, former Secretary of State Madeline K. Albright and international diamond merchant Maurice Tempelsman.

Mr. Tempelsman, whose role in the confluence of public policy and private profit as a middleman for the De Beers diamond cartel, according to submitted evidence, helped to shape practically every major covert action in Africa since the early 1950s. Declassified memos and cables between former U.S. presidents and State Department officials over the last four decades named Mr. Tempelsman with direct input in the destabilization of Congo, Sierra Leone, Angola, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Rwanda and Ghana.

Here are some Headlines from past few years, that Congo was waiting for International Help to Arrive:
Anvil Mining Hammered Over Military Assistance
UN Says War Fueled by Foreign Firms

Want to talk about the Cell Phones?

The demand for cell phones and computer chips is helping fuel a bloody civil war in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

How many cell phone companies are in hands of Islamic Fundamentalists or Africans?

Mineral for Cell Phones Aggravates Congo War

According to the Washington Post, multinational mineral companies buy the ore directly from whichever rebel group controls the particular mine. This is the direct cause for much of the fighting that surrounds these mineral concessions. Recently, a hillside collapsed and buried at least 50 workers at a mine 30 miles northwest of the town of Goma.

While the United States has been preaching peace in the Congo and supporting every UN resolution to that end, the flow of U.S. arms and military training has not ceased. Rwanda, Uganda, Namibia and Zimbabwe all continued to receive U.S. arms and/or military training.

The World Policy Institute (WPI) documents that out of the US$19.5 million in U.S. arms and training that was delivered to African armed forces in 1999, US$4.8 million went to nations directly or indirectly involved in the Congo war.

U.S.-based Bechtel Corporation worked closely with Kabila to draw up the most complete mineralogical and geographical data of the former Zaire ever assembled. According to WPI, an executive from Bechtel became a close advisor to Kabila traveling the country at his side assisting him with information to determine his war strategy. US-based American Mineral Fields made the first mining deal with victorious Kabila just after the overthrow of Mobutu securing a US$1 billion deal for the mining of cobalt and copper.

Report of the Panel of Experts on the Illegal Exploitation of Natural Resources and Other Forms of Wealth of the DRC

Given the substantial increase in the price of coltan between late 1999 and late 2000, a period during which the world supply was decreasing while the demand was increasing, a kilo of coltan of average grade was estimated at $200. According to the estimates of professionals, the Rwandan army through Rwanda Metals was exporting at least 100 tons per month. The Panel estimates that the Rwandan army could have made $20 million per month, simply by selling the coltan that, on average, intermediaries buy from the small dealers at about $10 per kg. According to experts and dealers, at the highest estimates of all related costs (purchase and transport of the minerals), RPA must have made at least $250 million over a period of 18 months. This is substantial enough to finance the war. Here lies the vicious circle of the war. Coltan has permitted the Rwandan army to sustain its presence in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. The army has provided protection and security to the individuals and companies extracting the mineral. These have made money which is shared with the army, which in turn continues to provide the enabling environment to continue the exploitation.

Guns, Money and Cell Phones

Sabena Airlines, Belgium's national carrier, regularly flies minerals out of the Congo, Uganda and Rwanda. American Airlines, in partnership with Sabena, also transports goods originating in the region throughout the United States. (Sabena says it transports coltan only from legitimate traders.) Tantalum is extracted from the ore by processing companies such as H.C. Starck, which produces 50 percent of the world's tantalum powder, and Cabot (CBT), the second-largest mineral processing company. These firms - which buy from international trading companies and also directly from large mines and local trading concerns - in turn sell refined tantalum powder to capacitor manufacturers - the largest of which are AVX (AVX), Epcos, Hitachi (HIT), Kemet, NEC (NIPNY) and Vishay. Their products go to the cream of the high-tech industry. Alcatel (ALA), Compaq, Dell, Ericsson, Hewlett-Packard (HWP), IBM, Lucent, Motorola (MOT), Nokia and Solectron (SLR) are all major buyers of tantalum capacitors. Chip firms such as AMD and Intel are also increasingly buying tantalum powder in its raw form to use in manufacturing semiconductors.

Wow, that's so Nice. So the West provides the NEED for a certain Resource, and the African people provide it to them. Once the Demand was for African Slaves and it increased, so the Local African Dealers (read: SCUM), provided the western buyers with what they need. Today the Minerals of Congo are a NEEDED resource - and I am sure that without an International Connection with the World, the local business by the Rwanda and Uganda could not Prosper as it does today.

Capitalism in its Purest Form.

Nothing more.

Originally posted by Souljah

Well you are Right - I shouldn't Ignore the Role of Belgium, since they also Slaughtered thousands of African people when they ruled the Colony of Kongo in the Imperial years of late 19th century. Again, the Role of Congo was taken by mister Sese Seko, which was BACKED by the US. Is that Better?

Some.

The fact remains that for the last 9 years, the USA has refused to back Kabila or anyone else in the Congo, in part because of global criticism of US support for Mubuto. So, when you make it sound like US support for Mubuto is ongoing, your ignoring the present in order to highlight past US crimes. Again, I cannot help but think it is because you are more interest in prosecuting the US that you are in advocating decisive change in the lives of Africans today.

And ofcourse the Partners from South Africa - but we already know, that the White Man rules South Africa.

Do you mean Thabo Mbeki, the SA president? Is his name Dutch, or English?

Are you calling him a shill for the white man? What about Nelson Mandela? was he a shill, too?

Is every African leader a sock puppet for the whites?

* * * * * *

Listen, if you want to critique the situation in Africa today (or 8 years ago!), there is plenty of Room for that. But again it seems like you're way more interesting in USA intervention in Africa than anyone else's.

Let's talk about today. On the Ground.

What about France's attempt to re-insert itself into the governance of Cote D'Ivoire. Since 2002, French troops have fired into crowd of civilians,destroyed the Ivorian air force.and as recently as November were accused of suffocating an Ivorian prisoner during an interrogation.

I wonder why you, while preaching on the evils of white imperialism in Africa, have overlooked this, which must be the most egregious ongoing example of precisely what you are talking about.

But for some reason, you can only talks about USA's crimes, even when they're almost a decade old. But apparently France gets a free pass for killing black people in their own country, and thwarting their self-determination today

Suddenly, I think your rhetoric seems specifically anti-American, and not just anti-imperialist.


.

In the last paragraph, I had intended to link a different webpage . . .

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft


But for some reason, you can only talks about USA's crimes, even when they're almost a decade old. But apparently France gets a free pass for killing black people in their own country, and thwarting their self-determination today

Suddenly, I think your rhetoric seems specifically anti-American, and not just anti-imperialist.


.

The "today" link was intended to take you here, To an article that appeared less than a year ago in Le Monde Diplomatique.

Originally posted by IAF101
So carry on and maybe you will end up proving that even death is a Western "lie" that is used to abduct the old !!

But ofcourse mister IAF - your LINK in the Signature tells it all:

Project for new American Century

Gee, I would never have Guessed.

Also a Member of CAMERA?

And AIPAC?

Of course, North America's riches had nothing to do with the fact that it was a massive untamed wilderness brimming with every natural resource and commodity you could ever want! Nope, that fine timber? Worthless. Fish and other foodstuffs? Worthless. Beaver pelts? Totally not in style!

Yeah, Who's riches? The Amerindians just upped and left the beaver/buffalo pelt for the Spaniards to ship out didn't they? .lol. I guess genocide had nothing to do with it at all.

I made a slip up with the HSBC thing, there was a shift in ownership at one of the major banks over here and I get the names messed up. I could go on to mention near enough any other large bank or insurance company in replacement. Natwest for one... How about The Bank of England?

So, unless you're telling me that somehow Africans were in North America when we got here, then you're spouting a lot of garbage.

Ahhh, the throes of miseducation;

community-2.webtv.net...

And just to drop some more info on the white wash we put up with;

WHO WERE THE OLMECS

The ancient Olmecs of Mexico and Central America were a facinating people. Upon the discovery of collosal stone heads in Mexico during the early part of the twentieth Century, there was no doubt that the facial reatures and hair texture (including cornrows) represented in the collosal Olmec sculpture represented Africoid people.

Yet, for many decades, some archeologists and scientists have described what is obviously Negroid-featured sculpture as "baby-faced," "South-East Asian" "Jaguar-featured," and other terms used to cover up their African Negroid identity.

Now you'd like to belive the last section of that statement, again, I'll refrain from getting out my books on the topics, ancient Bantu tales tell of trips to America well before Christopher Cohen (a jew) Sorry... Christopher Columbus (miseducated version) ever set sail on his trip to India.

WHY THE DENIAL OF BLACK HISTORY

Some historians and scientists, archeologists and others have for centuries covered up and made insignificant historical findings that show an African creation or connection to many of the world's first civilizations. Such has been the case in Egypt, Mesopotamia, India, Moorish Spain, Shang and Shia China and Mexico.

The denial of the contributions to ancient civillizations and the systematic cover-up was and is based on the maintainance of the myth of Black/African inferiority which was established in Europe and the Americas to make slavery acceptable and established in India by the infiltrators of the ancient civilization of Harappa and Mohenjo-daro in order to claim that the ancestors of India's Black Dalits (Untouchables) had no civilization (see "The Black Untouchables of India," by Y.N. Kly, V.T. Rajshekar and Runoko Rashidi: Clarity Press, Atlanta, Georgia).

www.raceandhistory.com...
^^ More here and in my libary if need be.

England is a part of North America now?

Should I reply? That comment pings off the mark in spectacular grace.

This isn't a game of blame-whitey. Yeah, sure, the Europeans of yore did a lot of screwed up things. But maybe, just maybe, it's time to realize that a certain portion of Africa's problem isn't our fault.

I'd glady accept this if those regions still owned by Europeans were given back to the people and their politics left to grow on their own. I'll say it again... its too much for you to handle. Your defence can only be from the stand point of;

''we need those colonies to keep our way of life going''

Or,

''I'm not one for change''

Its not a matter of ''yore'' when its still going on. The riots in France were last year, please don't go on about the two school kids and the electric fence or what ever it was they jumped into. The ivory coast has been up in arms for a while now and nearly 1000 Africans were killed in Paris that year in fires that I belive should be investigated independantly.

Militias ethnically cleansing, dictators, and even African mismanagement share some of the blame for making things worse and worse.

Yep, some of.

Imagine a nation so enslaved by politics that the inhabitants are driven to fight one another. Hunger has its ways.

Imagine being starving hungry and knowing that your brothers, living in the village down the road are sitting on a deposit of diamonds/oil and the contract offered won't allow enough money for all of you to survive off of it.

If they find out then they get that contract with the Americans/Europeans, maybe they have... You cannot fathom the concept because you've never held your stomach at night not being able to sleep through hunger... you've never been so hungry that you have to rob and steal to get something to eat, maybe you've done it once but to have to live that way... again, you cannot fathom.

I'm not saying that to block you out of the discussion, I see this as a re-education thread but to simply say things along the lines of,

''they should sort out themselves, they kill one another so whos to blame?''

Whilst not knowing of the dire situations out there is wrong.

Many of your facts are based on bias and faluse truths to allow an equally faluse sence of superiorty over others. A given delusion if anything... Ignorance really is bliss. Something I explain to my people when they feel to lash out at Europeans in a somewhat justified fustrated manner. Your school books distort the truth so badly you couldn't see it if it got hungry and robbed you in a down town alleyway or bar.

While he knew that the UK was responsible for the bulk of his country's suffering, he didn't waste a lot of breath on the past abuses.

Instead, he talked about Indians taking responsibility for Indian prosperity. Making their own salt, weaving their own clothes, etc.

He led his people to achieve independence in a single generation, with a lot fewer casualties than in most wars for independence. And with no IMF loans.

And how?

By focusing on the fact that his people's happiness was their own responsibility.

That if the imperialist ties to UK were oppressing India, then cut the ties, and start over on your own. Did india recieve a lot of financial help from the UK after they'd gotten independence? Nothing like the scale of many of the basket-cases in Africa have received since independence.

And India was far more lucrative for the Brits that the whole of Africa ever was. UK didn't pull out of india, they sent in machine-guns to mow down pacifists.

Indo-Aryan
www.ask.com...

India more lucritive that the whole of Africa? I don't think so, if that was true then why is South Africa still dominated by the English?... Why are the Europeans still there?

You're right about the past, people are making a change.

I've kept it quiet but the reason I had to leave this topic and didn't return was to go to the Pan African Congress meeting I attend every week. They get agents from diffrent places joining up to give them trouble. Stifling our attempts to reunite our people.

Its sad but through poverty people will, as stated, turn on one another. Look to the future most would say, but poverty is a here and now situation. Even India is still reeling from its colonial past, they were the richest nation on the planet before the 1700s. (depending on how wealth is estimated)

Ghandi was a great man but his people for the most part weren't shipped across seas and shot down when ever they stood up. He himself was eventually but he was allowed (ayran-indian) a leaway that Africans arent/weren't/never have been. We'll soon find out anyway, the PAC is setting up an African Investment Bank in England, it would sound like a long time coming but previous attempts have been dismantled by this enemy that I shouldn't blame. They nearly had a school in England but again it fell apart through no fault of our own belive me. If you wonder why just read into Ancient Africa and search for my posts on europeans and their guilt admission.

What the africans face today is not so much the poverty of physical requirements but rather a poverty of Spirit.

Ahhhh! Well said!

In all the furuor we've lost the respect of our guides due to their lack of ability to lead us out of our mess. The spirit of Africa is with our ancestors but so many have turned their back and uptaken diffrent beliefs that dont fit with the peoples of Africa... this is my stand point exactly, I'm a renaissance man to the full and fullest. Repirate (break down that word, its one of many that, somehow, manages to hide its true meaning) the African Spirit and allow for free trade.

Its that simple.



------------------------------------------
Re-pira-tions
Re-pirate-tions

Slavery was deemed;

appropirate
ap-pro-pirate
a-pro-pirate

So many words smell the same. I could go on.
--------------------------------------------------



[edit on 5-2-2006 by Rebel_Lion]

[edit on 5-2-2006 by Rebel_Lion]

The Niger Delta in Nigeria have been the Center of Attention for environmentalists, human rights activists and fair trade advocates around the world. Why? Is it the, yet again, a Deadly Combination of African Natural Resources and Western Corporate Exploatation?


"Map courtesy of www.theodora.com... used with permission"

The activities of large oil corporations such as Mobil, Chevron, Shell, Elf, Agip etc have raised many concerns and criticisms. Oil, which could potentially have allowed Nigeria to be one of the Wealthiest countries in Africa has instead led it to become one of the Poorest.

Why?

A series of repressive and corrupt governments in Nigeria have been supported and maintained by western governments and oil corporations, keen on benefitting from the fossil fuels that can be exploited.

According to Human Rights Watch, and I quote "Multinational oil companies are complicit in abuses committed by the Nigerian military and police."

Oil Companies Complicit in Nigerian Abuses

The oil companies can't pretend they don't know what's happening all around them. The Nigerian government obviously has the primary responsibility to stop human rights abuse. But the oil companies are directly benefiting from these crude attempts to suppress dissent, and that means they have a duty to try and stop it.

There have been Many examples of Foreign Coporations cooporating with corrupt local Military, in a variety of Counter-Protest Actions, such as; Shell's involvement in the killing of Ken Saro-Wiwa, Chevron-marked helicopters carrying Nigerian military that opened fire upon protestors to name a few. And thats not all - Multinational Oil Corporations, have been responsible for the increasing Enviromental damege to this Area, regular Oil Spills that are not cleaned up, Blatant dumping of industrial waste and promises of development projects which are not followed through.

Oil For Nothing: Multinational Corporations, Environmental Destruction, Death and Impunity in the Niger Delta

• Oil corporations in the Niger Delta seriously threaten the livelihood of neighboring local communities. Due to the many forms of oil-generated environmental pollution evident throughout the region, farming and fishing have become impossible or extremely difficult in oil-affected areas, and even drinking water has become scarce. Malnourishment and disease appear common.
  
  
• The presence of multinational oil companies has had additional adverse effects on the local economy and society, including loss of property, price inflation, prostitution, and irresponsible fathering by expatriate oil workers.
  
  
• Organized protest and activism by affected communities regularly meet with military repression, sometimes ending in the loss of life. In some cases military forces have been summoned and assisted by oil companies.
  
  
• Reporting on the situation is extremely difficult, due to the existence of physical and legal constraints to free passage and free circulation of information. Similar constraints discourage grassroots activism.

Chevron & Nigeria Oil Dictatorship

Nigerian activists charge that Chevron's oil operations pollute their land, severely hampering fishing and farming, their only means of livelihood. The U.S. multinational Chevron is the third largest oil producer in Nigeria. Oil money provides roughly 80 percent of the dictatorship's revenue.

"It is very clear that Chevron, just like Shell, uses the military to protect its oil activities. They drill and they kill," Nigerian environmental attorney Oronto Douglas told Pacifica.

Amnesty International - Injustice and violence haunt the oil Delta

"It is like paradise and hell. They have everything. We have nothing. They throw our petitions in the dustbin. They are the cause of all our problems. If we protest, they send soldiers. They sign agreements with us and then ignore us. We have graduates going hungry, without jobs. And they bring people from Lagos to work here."

"At around 10am the soldiers arrived in 15 gunboats. There were about 100 of them. They started pouring petrol on houses. I could not count the number of firebombs used; there were too many. They fired with big guns, but no teargas was used. Two- to three-year-olds and the old ones stayed in their houses, and 12-year-old Lucky was shot dead."

Blood Flows With Oil in Poor Villages

"This region is synonymous with oil, but also with unbelievable poverty," said Anyakwee Nsirimovu, executive director of Institute of Human Rights and Humanitarian Law in the Niger Delta. That combination is an inevitable recipe for bloodshed and misery, he said. "The world depends on their oil, but for the people of the Niger Delta oil is more of a curse than a blessing."

Africa is in the midst of an oil boom, with companies and governments pouring $50 billion into projects that may double the continent's oil output in the next decade.

In the world's thirst for oil and the United States' efforts to obtain it outside the troubled Middle East, African oil has become essential. Africa is expected to provide the United States with a quarter of its oil supply in the next decade, compared with about 15 percent now, and much of it will come from the Gulf of Guinea, where the Niger Delta sits.

Chevron Paid Troops After Alleged Killing

Nigerian soldiers guarding Chevron oil rigs billed the company for $109.25 a day after they allegedly attacked two villages in the volatile country, killing four people and setting fire to homes.

The company paid.

Nigeria's Gas Crisis: Suffering in the Midst of Plenty

uman rights activist Odion-Akhaine argues that structural adjustment economic and social stability. "When you destroy the productive base of the country, people lose their jobs, poverty increases and thus tension in the country which could lead to chaos as we have seen in the past." He fears that the military, which ruled the country for 15 years, could exploit such a situation to return to power.

Meanwhile, foreign oil companies like Shell and Chevron have a long history of intervening in Nigerian affairs. Under the military dictatorship they regularly pressured the government to send troops to quell protests against their operations in the Niger Delta. Meanwhile in November 1999, the new civilian government sent troops into Odi village where youths were accused of killing 12 police. The entire village was burned to the ground and an untold number of civilians killed probably reaching into the hundreds, according to Human Rights Watch. So far, they have not taken a public stand on deregulation.

Do you see a Pattern here?

Again a case of Exploiting the resources of rich Africa - yet country of Nigeria is completly poor! How come that the people of Nigeria are not profiting from the Biggest Gas Reserves in the World? Why are the Citizens of Nigeria being killed, from the Chevron-marked helicopters?

OK, so people will acuse me of Anti-Americanism, lets move to Dutch owned SHELL Company and what they have done for this Country.

• Shell companies have worsened fighting in the Niger Delta through payments for land use, environmental damage, corruption of company employees and reliance on Nigerian security forces.
  
  
• The action of Shell companies and their staff creates, feeds into, or exacerbates conflict.
  
  
• Voilence in the Niger Delta kills some 1000 people each year, on par with conflicts in Chechnya and Colombia
  
  
• With over 50 years of presence in Nigeria, it is reasonable to say that the Shell companies in Nigeria have become an integral part of the Niger Delta conflict.

Shell has been long present in Nigeria and it is held Responsible for numerous of Killings in their name, in the name of exploiting natural reserves. Shell made a weak concession and recognized that their development activities in the past "may have been less than perfect." I am sure of that.

Shell to Face Lawsuit for Saro-Wiwa Execution

Allegations that the oil multinational Shell aided and abetted the torture and murder of Nigerian activists including the executed writer Ken Saro-Wiwa will be tested by a full jury trial in New York, after the oil company's attempts to have the case thrown out were rejected.

Shell will also stand accused of orchestrating a series of raids by the Nigerian military on villages in the Ogoni region that left more than 1,000 people dead and 20,000 homeless.

According to Human rights and Environmental groups, that have long criticized the practices of Shell, the oldest and largest of Nigeria's oil producers: as a result of a stinging internal report in 2003 that said Shell, whether intentionally or not, "creates, feeds into or exacerbates conflict," the company revamped its community relations strategy. Shell immediately withdrew from the Obioku area and referred the dispute to local government authorities to resolve.

Anyway, the latest news from Nigeria regarding are the Following:

ATS - Armed Militants Storm US Oil Platforms In Nigeria

MORE than 100 armed militants stormed a United States-operated oil production platform in Nigeria and forced it to shut down yesterday in response to the arrest of an ethnic militia leader on treason charges.

Armed with assault rifles, the gang invaded the Idama platform operated by Chevron in the southern Niger Delta, escalating a simmering political crisis in the world's eighth-largest oil exporter.

"Eight boats, each carrying 15 armed people, occupied the Idama flow station. Six government security forces had their weapons taken from them," a source close to Chevron said. "Apparently the militants are now heading for more stations. The situation can only get worse."

Shell may pull out of Niger Delta after 17 die in boat raid

The oil giant Royal Dutch Shell was considering pulling out of the volatile Niger Delta region yesterday after heavily armed militants stormed one of its facilities and killed at least 17 people.

The attack early on Sunday, the latest during an upsurge of violence in the oil-rich swamp area, came only days after the kidnap of four foreign oil workers. Militant groups demanding local control of oil wealth warned Shell to withdraw immediately from the world's eighth largest oil exporter.

Violence?

Why?

Shell and other Foreign Oil Corporations have been always so Good to the Nigerian People - why would they attack them? Why? [sarcasm off]

And with the Rising corruption and religious tensions between Muslims and Christians, things can only get from BAD to WORSE.

Where is the International so called Community?

Who will stop the March of Corporations and Coruptions across Africa, in their Quest to Steal as much Resources as possible in as little time possible.


Related Links:
Voices of Nigerian Resistance
Assassins in Foreign Lands
The Price of Oil
Crackdown in the Niger Delta
Amnesty International's Nigeria Campaign for Human Rights Reform
Corpwatch - Nigeria

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