Originally posted by Souljah
Excuse me, but how far did the Arab Colonizers go? Did they Colonize America, Australia, Asia and entire continent of Africa? How can their Trade with
Slaves from Africa be compared to the White Man's SUPERMACY over this Planet as a whole?
So, what are you saying, that the Arabs are somehow morally superior because they never got around to oppressing people the way they would have liked
to? I'm sure Kurds, Yezidis, Druze, Copts, countless extinct minorities, and the whole northern half of India take great comfort in the knowledge
that they had the good fortune to be impoverished and forcefully converted by one race, and not the other.
I'm not saying that Europeans should be "forgiven." I'm saying that you are pretending that, because Europeans exist, no one else ever did
If you take Northern America for Example - what was the ONLY reason for the Economic boom? It was the CHEAP labour forces (Slaves from
Incorrect. Slavery was not the reason for the economic boom. Hispaniola (the nations of Haiti and San Domingo) would be the richest island on earth,
since they were covered with slavery.
that worked on the Vast Cotton Plantantions (STOLEN from Native Indians) - which made an Excellent Economic Combination, that boosted the Economy of
the Newly formed American Empire.
First, the indians didn't have vast cotton plantations. Cotton was introduced from Egypt. Second, it didn't make an economic combination--it
stifled industrial production in the South, meaning that the south could not compete against the non-slave north, and would eventually collapse during
the civil war.
Second, there were no slaves or cotton in New Englad, the center of American economic expansion. The bulk of southern cotton was shipped directly to
the textile centers of England. The northern US didn't have the population to consitute a real market for Southern Cotton. And once the British
perfected short staple cotton farming in India in the 1820's, there was a world cotton glut. So you'll have to look elsewhere for the sources of
American prosperity. Slave Cotton kept the south poor, rural, and non-competitive vis-a-vis the North.
Can you show me a Similar comparison in the Muslim World?
Economically? No. The Muslim world had a culture that was remarkably stable over time, and so never experienced the transformations due to market
forces the west did.
Morally? Sure. How about the fact that most of the Arab's slaves were 9 or 10 year old boys who were castrated (no anaesthesia) to serve as
eunuchs. How about the fact that America, the worst pro-slavery holdout in the west, didn't totally outlaw slavery until the 1860's; whereas arab
states continued to practice sex slavery for another century, only outlawing it under western pressure. You may find that situation somehow morally
preferable or less oppressive. I bet a lot of readers won't, though.
Zimbabwean Whites, although making up less than 1% of the population, owned more than 70% of the arable land, comprising mainly the
Exactly. The problem was not land reforms per se
. The problem is that Mugabe replaced one form of inequality with another. Instead of merely
removing the whites and assigning their land to the black employees, Mugabe removed the blacks as well, and gave the ranches to his political
supporters--thus preserving the inequality while only changing the melatonin levels of the repressors. Amazingly, whites are not the only ones
capable of infamy.
One can not expect that such countries would Blossom at the second that they gain Independance on one way or another.
True. But one could
expect that their new indigenous leadership might not rob their own people with even more of the hearty gusto that their
onetime white oppressors had shown.
Zimbabwe is therefore caught in the Vicious Circle of its own Poverty and it can not get out.
To put it more succinctly, Zimbabwe is trapped in a cycle of . . . Mugabe!
They face a wide variety of difficult economic Problems as they struggle to consolidate and upgrade their progress in the modern market-oriented
But they aren't making any progress. They are sliding backwards. At one time, their state was one of the most advanced on the continent. Best
phone system, best roads, electric trains, etc. The thugs who control the government have let the infrastructure languish while they tighten their
grip on all aspects of national life. The difficult problems you mention, (other than climate) are largely of their own making
They face a Shortage of foreign exchange, soaring inflation (586% in 2005), and supply shortages.
All of this was self inflicted. If you drive the wealthy out of your country (even when white!), they will try to take all their wealth with them.
It also stifles investment from outsiders, who are afraid you will sieze their property next.
Badly needed support from the IMF has been suspended because of the country's failure to meet budgetary goals.
Again, because of Mugabe's "kleptocracy." The IMF loans money, and has been known to forgive loans and set low (non-competitive) rates, to help
developing countries. Do you honestly think that if the IMF forgave all of Zimbabwe's debt, that Mugabe would do something besides
the national debt back up till it was maxed out, then stealing it?
The impact of land reform [emphasis added by Strangecraft] in Zimbabwe has badly damaged the ability of the commercial farming sector
to gain foreign exchange.
Thanks. Your making my points for me now. Saves me the typing. I guess this is your own reply to your questions about land reform above.
Every state has different needs.
So, what do you Suggest Herr Doctor we do to help the Nations and Nationalities of Africa?
Here's how I would advise the next president of Zimbabwe:
1. Set up a currency auction in the nation's capital. Let the exchange rate float and find its own level.
2. Redo the land reform this way. Explain that you plan to expropriate the largest quintile of farms in the nation. Current owners can choose
between a cash payout, or keeping half the land and recieving a payout over 25 years in 2005 inflation-adjusted currency. "Victims" receive legal
recognition that no part of the remaining farm may be seized in further reforms. The land that is seized is given first to employees of record, in
100 acre plots. The rest is auctioned to the public, with no individual able to purchase more than 100 acres. Orderly land reform would do a lot for
3. Sign a promise not to nationalize the platinum and gold mines, in exchange for a tax on foreign mine companies. The money would be invested in
infrastructure, and not maintenance of the debt. One percent of the mined product would be paid in kind, into a national bullion depository
4. Tell the IMF to go to hell. We are not borrowing any more money. Period. We are no longer printing currency, but the currency as a whole is now
backed by the bullion in the depository. Continue paying on the current debt.
5. Set up a civilian police force, and disband the "security force."
6. Institute stiff penalties, including capital punishment for bribery.
7. De-nationalize the businesses that Mugabe has stolen. Don't return them to his victims, which is impossible, but set up a stock market in the
nations capital, with a powerful policing agency to prevent fraud. Mongolia did this when they threw out the communists, and had a %2000 precent
growth in the stock average, in one year. . . .
8. Emphasize metal fabrication as a local industry. Instead of shipping the raw materials out of country (mercantilism), develop Zimabwean
wire-rolling factories, coking operations, etc. to enhance the values of exports. Allow foreign investment (but not control) in these industries.
9. Encourage meatpacking as a major industry. Goats and Pigs are quite drought resistant. Set up a rigorous meat inspection service, and export
processed meat to your neighbors. With a major river on one border, this should not be economically impossible.
10. Free and fair elections. Even on local levels.
Some of these (maybe most) would not work completely. But some of them would, and what a people needs most is self-confidence and trust of their
And none of these propositions relies on foreign governments, or blames them for the current (temporary) poverty. It does rely on worthy