Originally posted by TheBandit795
Paul of Nisbis,

First of all, are we talking about Africa here? Or the Islam. I for one definetaly wasn't talking about Islam here. There are other threads for that.

Seeing the role of Islam in the decline of native black African civilizations, how can we discuss Africa without mentioning it, especially when some people in this thread want to put the all blame on Christian Europe? And, in fact, aren't Christian blacks still being kept, right now, as slaves by Muslims in Sudan?

Originally posted by TheBandit795And wasn't Egypt one of the wealthiest and most powerful cultures on the planet? One of the cradles of western civilisation??

Well, Egypt was in Africa, but I don't think it was black, as opposed to Ethiopia:

Jeremiah 13:23, "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots?"

If Egyptians were black, I think Jeremiah would have used them as the closer example. I can concede the ancient Egyptians for the sake of arguement, but even that granted, their decline and fall would have nothing to do with Christian Europe.

Originally posted by TheBandit795How about the Ethopian emprire which was also wealthy and powerful in it's peak times.

What distinguishes Ethiopia from Ghana, Songhai, etc. is that Christianity, which they received from Egypt (which was Christian by peaceful converison for centuries before Islam invaded them) enabled them to flourish even when all other African civilizations crumbled before Islam. It is no accident that they were the last African country conquered by a European power, and only for a brief time, by the fascist [godless] Italy.

(Western civilization, with its inviolable individual self from whom the state does not have the power to take certain rights from is a product of Christianity (see John Locke), it did not inherit that concept from classical pagan civilizations of Rome and Greece. Fascism, Communism, etc. are all rejections of that and attempts at reaching back to a God like state where the individual is expendable.)

[edit on 2-2-2006 by Paul of Nisbis]

Originally posted by Paul of Nisbis
An example of what? Two religions don't exist in peace when they mingle into one artificial mess. If anything, the Muslims will hate them even more, Christians and Jews at least get the option of serfdom if they bow before the Muslim aggressor, but I doubt it will be extended to this group, who will be considered Muslim heretics to be wiped out. All they are doing is weakening the resolve of Christianity, making it easier for the Islamic virus to spread and destroy that country.

I knew people would start Diverting the Topic to typical Islamo-Bashing - which is very Fashionable today. Tell me, besides spreading across the North and parts of West Africa, how has Islam Plaqued Africa? Has the Turkish Empire Colonized the ENTIRE Continent? Have the Exploited its Natural Resources for their own Greedy purposes? Have the made big Money by trading with slaves, gold, ivory and spice? Yes, the Muslims were the first to reach African people, but they had never Exploited and Conquered it like the European colonists.

And Islam is NOT a Virus - it's a Religion.

And the News I have posted is an Example, how this two Religions CAN live & exist in Peace - but I guess that is an Artificial Mess for some people like you. Apparently you think that Christianity is somehow Superior and that Muslims are the Aggresor - but when Christian Colonists do the same, that is not called that.

[edit on 2/2/06 by Souljah]

Originally posted by Souljah
And the News I have posted is an Example, how this two Religions CAN live exist in Peace - but I guess that is an Artificial Mess for some people like you.

Once again, that is not two religions living in peace, that is a desperate attempt at appeasement within a country where the Muslims are engaging in yet another attempt to impose Islamic law.

I could lecture you some more on the benefits of western civilization, and Christianity, but what's the point. Good luck with learning Arabic.

Originally posted by Paul of Nisbis
Once again, that is not two religions living in peace, that is a desperate attempt at appeasement within a country where the Muslims are engaging in yet another attempt to impose Islamic law.

It is not a DesperateAttempt - it is a COMPROMISE, if you know the meaning of that word. It is something, that YOU or any other Religious Fundamentalists of ANY religion is not Capable to do. For you there is no Allah - just Your own God. But the Problem is, that the most simple Philosophy, that these people have adopted, is so pure and above all true, that the majority of the people just turn away and say - bah, thats pathetic!

And FACT is that the SAME Sun Dries Muslim, Christian and Jewish clothes at the end of the day...

I could lecture you some more on the benefits of western civilization, and Christianity, but what's the point. Good luck with learning Arabic.

Please do Father Nisbis.

You mean the Benefits of Globalization?

[edit on 2/2/06 by Souljah]

Compare China with Africa.

-Both were completely balkanized by a slew of European colonizers. England, France, Germany, Netherlands were active in both situations, and supported each other's inherent rights to Empire at the same time they competed amongst themselves to see which empire could get the largest.

-Both situations were a welter of small ethnic communities, largely undeveloped, that were practically enslaved to feed European mercantilism.

-Farmers in both areas were forced to switch from subsistence farming to cash crops that served only European markets.

-Multiple occupying forces in the region, while rivals, came to each others' aid in times of widespread uprising. Boxer rebellion is the classic example.

So how did China throw off the imperialist yoke?

While Chinese culture seems monolithic to westerners, the fact is that there are a welter of Religions, dialects, and lifeways that are mutually exclusive.

So, how did China throw off such oppression and become a world power itself? Africa has natural resources that equal or surpass China's.

Leaders like Mao and Chang Kai-shek had a task of unifying many ethnic minorities in the midst of their civil war. Surely, the Imperial powers tried to use both of them to re-insert themselves into China, but failed.

It is not like China was self-ruling before the Europeans got there, either. While Africa was oppressed by muslim slavers, Chiina had been ruled by a non chinese minority (the manchu people) since 1611 AD, with the imposition of the alien "Quing" dynasty . . . . Roughly the same time-period of European colonization of Africa.

After the loss to UK in the first Opium War, the Quing rulers gave into every western demand, even granting newcomer imperialists like Japan and the USA trading posts, land, and cash payments.

And, more that native African Leaders like Shaka Zulu, the Quing absolutely refused to modernize, knowing that modernization meant the end of minority Manchurian political and social hegenomy. The Western Powers were aware of this fear, and exploited it to an unbelieveable degree.

So what is the difference here? If anything, the African cultures had a much longer exposure to european technology & military, and could have evolved alongside.

Why did China develop and gain both independence and Unity (while the Europeans backed first the Quing, and later Chang, at every turn?)

.

dr_strangecraft,

I'm not sure many historians would consider the Manchurians a truly foreign, non-Chinese power. China has been united, one way or another since 221 BC. I don't think they're a good example to use when trying to make a comparison with Africa. In the middle ages, their technological development was on par with the Europeans and they had a massive trading fleet, visiting Europe, East Africa, Asia, and perhaps the New World. Sub-Saharan Africa did NOT have more exposure to the west than China. China was trading with Europe since the days of Alexander the Great. Europeans really only became interested in Africa in the 1400s-1500s.

Another point: Africa has had powerful empires rise up and take control of large areas of land, such as Great Zimbabwe. Yet none of them managed to conquer the majority of the continent and last.

Anyway, I'm interested in what your answer is to the questions that you've put forth.

[edit on 2/2/2006 by Flinx]

Originally posted by Souljah
You were right - you DONT WANT to KNOW, thats your problem. If you did, your mind might have reacted differently. Or not.

Skipping past your theatrics;
I said what I and many others feel about the campaign of misery that has continued for the better part of this century in our media and there is no sight of an end to this. Day in and day out for years on end all we see is images of misery and decapitaion from Africa. No matter how much money is thrown to stop this the situation doesnt get any better. Every month a new drama unfold in that continent. This in turn brings yet another round of misery filled multimedia. To add to this we have propaganda style messages, preying upon compassion and questioning people's morality. It is not that I or others dont know what is happening in Africa, I know very well that they are having a hard time but if decades of aid have not helped, then clearly that is not the soluion to the problem.

Frankly, all the Aid that comes to Africa is NOT ENOUGH, if it were, there would not be Wars, Famine, Starvation, Diseases and DEATH all over the Place. And did you know that PRIVATE DONATORS give alot more then any Goverments or Companies?

The West cannot be held as the excuse for the misery in Afrika, doing so is nothing but a vain attempt to cover up the inherent incompetence and apathy of the people. Moreove the US in particular has not had any colonies, what ever external support they might extend to any govt is upto the govt to decide. IF the support is considered as against the countries interests then they should abstain from accepting such help. Surely they know what is and isnt good for them ?
There are WARS because there are militias and war lords who want to wage war not because companies suply guns. If not the West these warlords would get them elsewhere. IT is the AFRIKAN warlords that are the problem.
Famine and Starvation is because of a lack of planning and governmetal effort to counter the food short fall .Also it is the lack of interest of the people in wanting a better society. If they dont want to exert themselves inorder to want change they will dwindle into oblivion.
I remeber that India faced massive drought when the British left and now they produce a large excess of food even though their population is one of the greatest in the world. Yet people still die out of starvation in India. Starvation is not a product of the inavailability of food.
Death and Disease are also rampant in Afrika and who is responsible for this ? Surely the Europeans who have left decades ago have conspired to bring misery upon the people? NOT . The only cause for this is lack of education adn the reason there is inadequate education is because the people dont pay enough importance to it and apply enough pressure on the people who rule to have more schools.
In short all of Afrika problems can be solved if only the people of afrika were more dynamic and assertive than what they are today. Theri fate is determined by them and them alone blaming someone who isnt there is pathetic excuse at best.
About Private donation, the only people who give more than corporations are the people who run the corporations ( Ex: Bill Gates etc ). Corporation usually give more than private induviduals.

Exactly. Thats why America has SUPER SIZED MENUS, so that the realy FAT people can Thrown the Extra Pounds of French-Fries - oops I mean FREEDOM-Fries

Spare me your attempts at caricaturizing the WEST. If you have no POINTS to add, I think you should stop posting. Such kind of drivel is useless.
[quote
Thats why America is throwing 50% of their FOOD TO WASTE, which is also creating an Enviromental Problem, with all the Menthane that the rotting food gets out.

WHAT ??? Where did you come up with that ?
Even if the food was never eaten and let to rot naturally the same amount of methanel gas would be produced !
Is this the best you can come up with ??

You have given them NOTHING but empty Hopes and small packages of food - when in fact they need somebody to BUILD them Farms and Infrastructure -

And I am sure given time they would want a refrigerator, TV, Playstation and a car- all financed from the pockets of foolish westerners who actually have jobs and DO work !
You have still not answered my basic question, why is the West supposed to give them anything ? If its colonialism then the US doesnt need to spend a dime on them !

So now its they have to cope with it, when before you said there is nothing wrong with their Enviroment, and that they should live like they did thousands of years ago.

Apparently you have forgotten what you've said about rapid desertification of Afrika. I implied that if such conditions exsist ( like dertification ) then the Afrikans should deal with it in any which way they know how. Their battles are their own, just as the Western worlds battles are our own.
They have survived the dertification of the SAHARA and thrived I am sure they can live unassisted now without aid too. They just see the West as an opportunity to slack off and get fed for doing no work. Now that sort of culture has culminated into a whole lifestyle.

THE HELP GOES TO THE JEWS not the PALESTINIANS! If you did not notice, Palestinians DO NOT Live in Isreal - they live in West Bank and Gaza Strip,
Yet the United States still give FREE Military Technology to Isreal,

Now are yu going to teach me about Israel ? The Palestinians live in the West Bank ??
The "JEWS" are the ones who provide the Palestinians with jobs, civic ammentites like electricity, water etc. Also almost all the hospitals receive aid from the Israeli authority, not to mention food donations. Dont preach to me about something you have no idea about ! Trying to divert the topic is of no use as well, this is about Afrika isnt it ??
Why dont you talk more about Afrika and less about the West, Israel and me.

All I am saying si that, WE - as the Human Race, as the CITIZENS of this PLANET - can Togather, Make it BETTER, FOR EVERYONE! Not just for the Few, Rich - but for everybody! PEACE AND JUSTICE FOR ALL - remember?

Who said that all the citizens of the world are makign the place a better place for the rich ?? Its the other way around. And also about the global citizen platitudes, spare me! If Begging solved all the problems then I wonder why anybody would work ??

Errr, the West has Enormous Resources, because they STOLE alot of it in the Past.

Really ? If the West has so many resources I wonder why they still import oil, minerals, etc all of which are availabe in plenty in Africa. Also isnt Afrika the largest producer of gold ?? They also have oil, natural gas. I wonder what else they need to be given to them on a silver plater so they might condecend to work again !

But, you are practicly GIVING Free Aid to Isreal, why not the Africans, a People that REALLY need it. It is not like Isreali's are starving and dying from simple curable diseaes, is it?

The US gives aid to Israel because it is mutually beneficial to both countries. Why does this mean the US should give similar amount of aid to Afrika ??
Why isnt Slovenia giving more aid to afrika ? why does it spend 300 million on a small country which is smaller that even Israel ?? Why is that the rest of the world takes a back seat approach to the whole situation and look expectently on to the US ?? We are not the purse of the world. There is no point in giving aid to afrika, when the world ignores them and they realize this that is when they will wake up to the reality of the situation and mobilize to do what it takes.

And I think the Asia has a little bit different Climate, then the Africa. Yes, Asia was once also colonized but the White Man, but their history is alot different and their way of life.

ASia might have different climate, which only mean they have differnet problems, which they deal with. They dont appear on TV and start a beggathon do they? In fact I remember that during the Tsunami, some contries like India acutally refused aid ! I wonder how they can do that even after what the "Colonial "powers "stole" their resources! It is because they have realised that what happened in the past is no excuse for slacking off in the present and THAT is the difference between them and Afrika.
Singapore today is one of the most vibrant economies in the world, it was colonized by the British and brutalized by the Japanese. Yet they have reached where they are now. Its is called the human spirit and like you if they kept finding out the reasons they cant succed they might as well have ended up as a small fishing village.

The US prolonged the rule of Zairian dictator Mobutu Sese Soko by providing more than $300 million in Weapons and $100 million in Military Training. Mobutu used his US-supplied arsenal to repress his own people and Plunder his nation's economy for Three decades! To top it all, His family holds his fortune, and his country holds his $12 billion debt - in a nation with an annual income of $110 per capita, each resident theoretically owes foreign creditors $236.

Again you have perverted the truth to suite your agenda. Maybe the antiwar.com or talkleft.com site from where you are blindly quoting the figures have forgotten to mention that the govt of Congo had only 2 of the six provinces under its control in 1961 and Patrice Lumumba, the commisar from mother russia was intent on spliting Katanga from Congo thereby removing the only mineral resources form the region and ensuring that the moderate govt under Adoula would come crashing down making it easier for the Marxists to swallow it whole. To stop this from happening, the US tried under the UN to resolve the conflict without leading to any sucession. However despite that the Marxists-Leninists set up a govt and tormented their people, conveniently this lasted just as long as the Soviet Union and in 1990 they decided to democratise it again.
Your attempt at twisting fact is almost as dispicable as the vain excuses used by the africans to conceal their own inabilites.

They are not BEGGING - they are DYING as we speak! That is not Begging, that is a CALL FOR HELP.

Is it ?? Apparently that 'call for help' has been going on for a better part of a century ! If they were 'dying' I wouldnt be able to hear them anymore but instead they have now permanetly supplanted themselves into the media and refuse to end their beggathon anytime soon. A sort of decolonialism, exploitation of the rich !

So you see a Dying man on the Street, you can see that he is in PRETTY Bad shape, what do you do?

Call 911 so that I can drive out without having to drive around him .

So it is YOUR WISH to Give one Third of 14 Billion dollars worth of ARMS to known human rights abusers? It is YOUR WISH to transferre weaponry to 18 of the 25 countries involved in active conflicts?

Human rights abusers ? You mean the Palestinians ? Then you are right, the US aid to Palestine is indeed unecessary. As for the 25 countries, it is obvious, they would need the money to contend with the conflicts wouldnt they ? If their was no conflict they could do without the aid.
Also giving aid in some cases can bring about a reversal in a situation where the people of the land do the work for themselves and the aid is merely a catalyst in their progress. But not people who start a subsistence culture which depends on western aid.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
Compare China with Africa.

I must say an Interesting Observation and Comparison.

-Both were completely balkanized by a slew of European colonizers. England, France, Germany, Netherlands were active in both situations, and supported each other's inherent rights to Empire at the same time they competed amongst themselves to see which empire could get the largest.

Agreed. With a little Difference. Africa is Much closer to Europe, which means that the European influences can be stronger and more efficient. For example, if a Rebellion breaks out in China, the European colonizers, have to send reinforcements half way across the Planet - in Africa they just have to send them South.

-Both situations were a welter of small ethnic communities, largely undeveloped, that were practically enslaved to feed European mercantilism.

I disagree. China had a prior history of a Chinese Empire, which was United and Big before the Western colonizers arrived. Africa never had a King who would Unite the entire Continent to say - like Chinese had. It was far easier to Divide and Conquer African people then it was to do the same to Chinese.

-Farmers in both areas were forced to switch from subsistence farming to cash crops that served only European markets.

True. I would just add, that African climate is alot different from Chinese.

-Multiple occupying forces in the region, while rivals, came to each others' aid in times of widespread uprising. Boxer rebellion is the classic example.

True. However, IMHO the Chinese people had not Suffered and Endured as much as the African did - there was no BIG Slave Trade of Chinese people, like it happened to African.

So, how did China throw off such oppression and become a world power itself? Africa has natural resources that equal or surpass China's.

You are talking about Apples and Oranges here. China is a COUNTRY and once was an EMPIRE - African Continent NEVER was an EMPIRE and never was a BIG, Country like China. You can not compare a Country to a Continent.

Leaders like Mao and Chang Kai-shek had a task of unifying many ethnic minorities in the midst of their civil war. Surely, the Imperial powers tried to use both of them to re-insert themselves into China, but failed.

So you saying that Africans need some Communism?

It is not like China was self-ruling before the Europeans got there, either. While Africa was oppressed by muslim slavers, Chiina had been ruled by a non chinese minority (the manchu people) since 1611 AD, with the imposition of the alien "Quing" dynasty . . . . Roughly the same time-period of European colonization of Africa.

Yes, but you have to Remember then even in the first Chinese Empire arised even in around 200 BC - a United Chinese Empire under the Ruling of Emperor Qin. Chinese have a History of Unity and a History of Empires - Africans do not have that.

And, more that native African Leaders like Shaka Zulu, the Quing absolutely refused to modernize, knowing that modernization meant the end of minority Manchurian political and social hegenomy. The Western Powers were aware of this fear, and exploited it to an unbelieveable degree.

Shaka Zulu was a member of a Small Tribe, that united the people of Southern Africa. He did not united the entire African People - like for example first Emperor of China Qin did. So it is hard to compare the two - one was a famous Chieftan, the other an Emperor

So what is the difference here? If anything, the African cultures had a much longer exposure to european technology & military, and could have evolved alongside.

I think the difference is in History of both. But as I said, Africa is a continent, not a Country or a former Empire like China. It is hard to compare that.

However, thank You for an Interesting View of the African Situation.

Love the Avatar!

Originally posted by Attero Auctorita
Do we really need moderators calling people, who they believe they have a superior view to, son? Show a little class.

Yes my son, and FYI, I call my best friends "son" sometimes...

Originally posted by Paul of Nisbis
Seeing the role of Islam in the decline of native black African civilizations, how can we discuss Africa without mentioning it, especially when some people in this thread want to put the all blame on Christian Europe? And, in fact, aren't Christian blacks still being kept, right now, as slaves by Muslims in Sudan?

Then start a new thread. I for one was not talking about any religion in this thread. You and others are bringing religion up here.

Well, Egypt was in Africa, but I don't think it was black, as opposed to Ethiopia:

When I talk about the United States, I don't leave out Hawaii.

When I talk about South America, I don't leave out Surinam.

What distinguishes Ethiopia from Ghana, Songhai, etc. is that Christianity, which they received from Egypt (which was Christian by peaceful converison for centuries before Islam invaded them) enabled them to flourish even when all other African civilizations crumbled before Islam. It is no accident that they were the last African country conquered by a European power, and only for a brief time, by the fascist [godless] Italy.

Why are you making this thread aone about Christianity vs the other religion? Please explain that to me.

Originally posted by Souljah

I disagree. China had a prior history of a Chinese Empire, which was United and Big before the Western colonizers arrived. Africa never had a King who would Unite the entire Continent to say - like Chinese had. It was far easier to Divide and Conquer African people then it was to do the same to Chinese.

You're statement about apples and oranges is certainly true. On the other hand, there had been major African Empires. The Ghana Empire and Mali Empire being two examples. Great Zimbabwe encompassed as much land as the Roman Empire had, and was contemporary with early Quing.

It's also important to point out that "China" is a political as well as geographic term. The Song dynasty only ruled about a third of what we consider the modern Geography of the People's Republic. And the Quing, tho titular head of much of central china, actually "ruled" in conjunction with local warlords who gave lipservice to Quing culture. Much like the Ptolemaid and Seleucid generals who ruled the Greek "empire" after Alexander.

True. I would just add, that African climate is alot different from Chinese.

But you're not arguing that climate is the reason for the subjegation of Africa, are you?

True. However, IMHO the Chinese people had not Suffered and Endured as much as the African did - there was no BIG Slave Trade of Chinese people, like it happened to African.

I would be hard pressed to rank the relative sufferings of people in history. If you are a slave, it does't matter whether you are a housemaid or a field-hand. You cannot rest without your liberty. Period.

And whether it is institutional slavery, opium imported to dull the people's will, or sharecropping on a plantation, it does't less the gall of opression for the million, yearning to breathe free.

You are talking about Apples and Oranges here. China is a COUNTRY and once was an EMPIRE - African Continent NEVER was an EMPIRE and never was a BIG, Country like China. You can not compare a Country to a Continent.

Certainly true. On the other hand. Are you saying that you must have been an empire in the past for people to acheive self-determination? Neither Mao nor Chaing Kai Shek would have agreed.

So you saying that Africans need some Communism?

Mao was doing good as long as he was liberating. So was Chaing. Both turned out to be Imperialist-style expropriators of the common-man's property and destiny.

Thanks for the thot provoking dialogue. But boss man cometh.


[edit for quotes later]


.

[edit on 2-2-2006 by dr_strangecraft]

Originally posted by AceOfBase
It's true that the European empires fell but with the exception of the Russians they generally aren't living in poverty today.

So..? Europeans were living in poverty for 1000 years, which ended with the discovery and colonization of new continents and importing incredible amounts of valuable resources from those countries, of which the colonized countries usually did not see or receive benefit from the fruit of their own land.

Also, this thread seemed to put the blame for the collapse of the African civilization on the Europeans but as myself and others have pointed out many of those regions were colonized by the muslims before the Europeans began to colonize them. Some of the regions fell into decline even before the muslims showed up.

Yes I know. But I posted those links for you to prove a point. Africans have been able to create wealthy and advanced civilisations that were pretty much equal to European civilisations at the time.

Originally posted by Netchicken

Africa has certinaly been exploited historically, but when the west left they often left countries well on the way to first world status, Rhodhesia, Kenya, Nigeria, Ghana. What happened after that is the responsability of the new states themselves.

Yes they did leave good influences behind but more so the disappointment of the people when they took with them no only part of their natural resources but also the relationship with the governments left behind that didn't included the people, they instead were oppressed during occupation and they still oppress after.

The people more often than not were not prepared for the vacuum that occupation left behind

The problem is that you can't take tribal based groups and weld them together to become nations from the outside, as the west tried to do.

This is very well said, you know exactly what the social structure in Africa is all about.

Neither UK or the US can change the way of life of people in a certain area when it comes to what they are, believe or rule by.

US has tried and many others with not good results because changing people's believes or way of life never works.

It has to be an internal intrinsic change of the people themselves. Thats why the new nations failed, they are based on artificial borders and tribal groupings. They also imposed western ethics and social structures upon people unready and unable to live in that manner.

Good point also, like I said before just because it works for us in this part of the world it doesn't mean its going to work for everybody else.

Then when the people is left behind the struggles between corruption and different views that are alien to that particular region creates chaos and destabilization.

That along with desperation creates violence and when education is not available it brings the mess we now see in Africa.

When the western "leaders" left, the people reverted to more traditional practices and societies. African nations have to develop their own way forward, the western template of a good society is not necessarily the right one for every people. This is exactly the issue facing Iraq.

Bingo!!!!!!Also when they left the struggle to retain and maintain the identity became a fight for power.

That working through takes generations, it also takes a degree of honesty and self awareness admitting that their society has problems that only they can take the blame for. People can't call themselves victims forever, they eventually need to stand on their own feet and start afresh.

I agree, but without education and the west supporting corrupt governments already established in Africa because some corporate links is never going to work.

Originally posted by Souljah

I knew people would start Diverting the Topic to typical Islamo-Bashing - which is very Fashionable today. Tell me, besides spreading across the North and parts of West Africa, how has Islam Plaqued Africa? Has the Turkish Empire Colonized the ENTIRE Continent? Have the Exploited its Natural Resources for their own Greedy purposes? Have the made big Money by trading with slaves, gold, ivory and spice? Yes, the Muslims were the first to reach African people, but they had never Exploited and Conquered it like the European colonists.

And Islam is NOT a Virus - it's a Religion.



[edit on 2/2/06 by Souljah]

are you kidding me? The arabs sold more africans into slavery than anybody.....who do you think brokered those deals between europeans?
The muslims are also responsible for some of the worse atrocities in africa. Souljah seriously, you have a very skewed view of things

[edit on 2-2-2006 by XphilesPhan]

[edit on 2-2-2006 by XphilesPhan]