3 Round Burst Pistols, Military or Security Force Use?

Found these pistols that are capable of 3 round bursts, The Berreta M-93R is the most popular but it was either the Russians or Germans who first invented them.

Mauser 712 Schnellfeuer
securityarms.com...

Stechkin APS
securityarms.com...

OTS 33 Pernach
securityarms.com...

Berreta M-93R
securityarms.com...

Glock 18
securityarms.com...

CZ75
securityarms.com...

H&K VP70
securityarms.com...

I dont think the Military would use them much but Police units, Bodyguards or other Security Forces may use them in service.

Most services prefer SMGs PDWs etc

Afterall they may be SMG's/PDW's With Style.



[edit on 31-1-2006 by Browno]

I kinda think it's overkill (no pun intended). Unless they plan on tailoring some low recoil ammo to fit the firearm. It would truly take some skill to keep a handgun on target during a three-round burst, unless it's really tight CQB. Outside of fifteen yards I'd think these handguns would lose their effectiveness.

Only use is ego boosting, difference between semiauto pistols and full-autos in actual use is pretty much zero... The full autos are only useful with shoulder stock, but if you're going to use a FA pistol+stock you might as well pick a Steyr TMP or MP-5K....

I agree Northwolf.

I personally have never been a fan of full-auto or burst-fire pistols outside of motion pictures which is cool and flashy

However, there are compromises like the MP-7, P-90 and the likes.

even a MAC-10/11 or Uzi would be better than a full auto pistol.

I think for body guards and the like, a MP-7 would be the best choice, features full-auto fire, slightly larger than a full frame pistol (like SOCOM), has a telescopic stock and a (very?) low impulse round.

Although just a 'Movie Gun' I would well prefer this one than the standard Berreta M-93R, I would add a picatinny rail underneath the barrel and stick a front grip and a laser pointer too, maybe stick an optical pistol sight on top.

upload.wikimedia.org...

If there was a Full Auto M1911A1 It would look like this beast below
Also resembles the 'Robocop Gun' above .

www.speedydelivery.co.uk...

Shame its only a Gas-Airsoft gun but i wonder if anything like this does exist?

Here is some weapons used by John Dillingers Gang, Notice the Colt M1911 'Machine Pistol' with extended barrel, Magazine and forward 'Tommy Gun' grip

www.auto-ordnance.com...

Full Auto Pistols are from Russian origin back in the 1920s/30s but was just an idea for Officers use and never took off until later, So it was the Germans who first made it with the Mauser 'Broomhandle' frame.

But the Russians were the first to introduce it in the conventional 'Pistol' frame when the Stechkin APS came out in the early 1950s.

www.personaldefenceweapons.com...

[edit on 6-5-2006 by Browno]

The History Channel showed a fully automatic pistol - not just a 3-round burst. It was kind of stupid - it was a normal sized pistol (well, maybe slightly bulkier) with the magazine hanging 6 inches out of the bottom. They had some tracer rounds loaded in it and fired off the entire clip. Even though the firer was experienced, the shots scattered around a lot. I guess if you are a really bad shot, it would improve your odds to hit something.

That show was probably mail call? fun show.

Glock 18's often have full auto and large clips...hehe...

Just to start, I HATE full auto pistols. They're just not natural. A semi will do the business in any situation that I can imagine.

As for recoil, most of these pistols fire at very high cyclic rates. If they are adjusted to 3rd burst only, then the 3 rounds would be on target before recoil had any real effect. Still, I don't think that there are any real advantages of these weapons over a conventional pistol or a SMG.

Browno,

If you are restricted in your round types from carrying enhanced lethality ammunition in an environment where there is a lot of threat PBA running around, the three-round engagement capability can multiply target shock effects without having to worry so much about the headshot.

Think minishotgun.

It DOES require a very beefy set of forearm and wrist control to keep it on target however and your ability to /switch/ targets is still clenched-grip much slower than it is for a dedicated autofire gun. Which is where a bodyguard finds himself at his 'lowest point', facing 2-3 kidnappers, assassins or just plain wrong-side-of-town 'party goers' in protecting his client.

Of course I've seen guys file down the sear to the point where they are effectively walking around with single action trigger release in a DA frame and the outcome for most is much the same with the first, 'intentional' round going more or less where they expected it to and everything after that more or less artillery. Sad part is, half the time they are so psyched on whatevers ahead of the front post that they don't even /feel/ it happening. Even though they are sending rounds as much as 300yds downrange.

A more logical approach, especially if lethal force is NOT an expecation of need, is to look at what you can do with compressed air and pellets or paint ball sized rounds. No explosive chemistry, no long slide and heavy recoil spring to 'shake' the gun mass in recovering to the next sight-picture engagement cycle.

In theory, you should even be able to cooccupy a single barrel (vice metal storm heavy-muzzle crap) without blowing out the working pressures. Which should average out ballistic effects and muzzle point indexes a great deal.

And of course, zero'd case length means four times the onboard round count.

Provided only that you KNOW HOW TO SHOOT (something most people are afraid to learn because of the blast effects). And/or have something like an assisted incapacitation mechanism (pepper spray or better in a splatter cone round) it becomes real easy to fire not just 3 rounds but 5 or even 10 'per burst', using nothing more than basic paintball-meets-Daisy technology in which the largest replaceable 'clip' element is a CO2 cylinder or a microhybrid fuel cell driving a tiny compressor.

In the end, I think both our own fascination with guns and our keepers indulgence in our obsession with their symbolic power is largely inherrent to the need to 'make some noise if not a statement'. And that is probably what locks us into a mentality of 'controlled' lethal firearms use. Because a silenced full-auto, .17mm, pneumatic weapon with 50-100rds worth of cyanide or ricin type toxin heads-

www.geocities.com...

Standing in for some kind of irritant agent.

Would be far more threatening than something which 'reports' it's presence to all around and requires special technologies (high pressure steel casting etc.) to create as a function of trackable sales.

Lord knows, in the hands of the average idiot, it would be ten times more likely to score accurately at common 'in your face' engagement ranges where all that fps is just not necessary in discouraging teen thugs or deliberate muggers.

And it would hurt like hell, if you weren't wearing full upper body and head protection.


KPl.

Thats all well and good, but the auto pistol still has less practical applications than either a SMG or a pistol. They lack the range and hitting power of the SMG, and the practical concealability of the pistol, as they often require extra bulk and/or extended mags to contain a realistic number of rounds to be of any use. Remember, every round that you miss with a conventional pistol, you will lose 3+ with these weapons.

As ch1466 said, the auto pistol is more often a demonstration of our need to make a statement than a useful weapon.