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Reincarnation not possible?

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posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 01:48 PM
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How many of you believe in reincarnation? well I was thinking about it today and decided it is not possible, heres the reason why.
Think about the people that have had there bodies frozen after death, well lets say in a few years they have the medical technology to bring them back to life, well if after death they reincarnated into somebody else what would happen if the scientists bring there old body back to life?

[edit on 31-1-2006 by Alien DNA]

Mod Edit: Title

[edit on 31-1-2006 by kinglizard]




posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 01:55 PM
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Reincarnation presupposes a 'soul' or 'spirit' which leaves the body at death (or freezing). If the process exists, and I have had experience that it does, then the re-animated corpse does not regain its soul or spirit, but rather becomes one of the undead, as in 'Return of the Living Dead'.

great movie, btw...highly recommended



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 01:56 PM
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Although this has nothing to do with " Aliens and UFO's" it is a good topic. Perhaps something like the Warren Beatty movie " Heaven can Wait" happens and another soul steps in and takes over.



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 01:58 PM
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You would be re-animating a souless body, I suggest you go rent a film apedtly named "the Reanimator" or SK "Dead cet cemetary" for what happens when you reanimate dead enities.

GOD has already used their soul energy for something else, so if science figures out how to reanimate things they will become souless zombies who probably will remain comatos and never move, although there might be brain acitivity of some sort it would not be of the higher ordered required to sustain memories and thoughts.



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 02:12 PM
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I personally don't believe in re-incarnation; but not for the cryogenics reason listed here. Being that cryo in humans has not happened yet, and is still in the land of theory and science fiction, to disbelieve something based on a science fiction theory is a far stretch of reasoning.

One question I do have for people who do believe is: where do all the souls come from, when do you know if you are re-incarnated or a new soul? Being that there are billions of people in the world now and the world started with much fewer than that.... I've always wondered what the explanation is to that.....



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by sinta_ilfirinOne question I do have for people who do believe is: where do all the souls come from, when do you know if you are re-incarnated or a new soul? Being that there are billions of people in the world now and the world started with much fewer than that.... I've always wondered what the explanation is to that.....


If one thinks that Earth contains the only life in the universe, then the spirit could come from the lack of animal life, for instance, and make up the difference from there.
However, if one were to believe that the universe is full of life, then there is an unlimited supply.

Edit to add...1/ I agree this thread belongs in a 'religion' forum and 2/bad English

[edit on 31-1-2006 by masqua]

[edit on 31-1-2006 by masqua]



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 02:19 PM
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Who knows, it might be a sin to have your body cryogenically frozen with the hopes that you may be one day brought back to life. Maybe God keeps your soul in limbo indefinitely for doing so.

If you want to do like Ted Williams and have your son lop off your head and freeze it, then that's probably alright because there's no chance of being resuscitated.

Peace


[edit on 31-1-2006 by Dr Love]



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 03:03 PM
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When they can officially bring someone back from the dead, you can say that reincarnation is impossible. But right now, cryogenics is just as speculative as reincarnation. I don't think it will be possible to "cure" death, even in a thousand years. Prolong life so that the only reason people die is accidental, yes. But not bring already-dead people back to life.

In the event that you actually CAN bring someone back from the dead, the following possibilities apply:

1. As mentioned, it would be brought back soul-less.
2. Another soul would take over
3. Wherever your soul currently is, you would be killed and snap back to this life due to fate. If the universe is really as co-ordinated as some people think, then fate would dictate that you die and are cryogenically frozen, go and live a life for a few years as a deer, then get hit by a truck, die as a deer, and be reborn in your un-frozen previous body.
4. Depending on how the soul actually works, it may be possible to actually live two lives at once. We may be actually living multiple lives at once right now, and just not be aware of it. Past, present, and future are all happening in the same moment. Souls may be omnipotent and omnipresent for all we know. "The Spiritual Realm" is a funky place, that doesn't necessarily follow the rules you are applying to it.


One question I do have for people who do believe is: where do all the souls come from, when do you know if you are re-incarnated or a new soul? Being that there are billions of people in the world now and the world started with much fewer than that.... I've always wondered what the explanation is to that.....


sinta_ilfirin, (by the way, I like your avatar. Yay for Tolkien.)

Here is my best guesstimate...
All souls come from a single source, The Creator, if you will. Not necessarily a God, maybe it is just the universe as a whole. The Universe at one time was a single "soul". But being everything there is, you cannot necessarily experience things, so it divided itself up into many pieces, being everything and super-powerful. So it made itself into light and dark, large and small, mass and emptiness, etc. You see, although you may be everything there is in the entire universe, you can't know things unless you experience it. So it split itself up into separate souls, which are you and I. Thus even if we kill each other, there is a purpose behind it, and we are all on the same side. The person getting murdered is as much a part of it as the person murdering. They are all part of the same being, and each of them agreed to it before they were even born. Someone has to "play" good and evil, skeptic and believer, for it to work properly though. That is why you get your memory 'erased' every time you begin a new life.

There are also many different versions/schools of thought on reincarnation. You may get to conciously choose which life you will choose next, or you may just spontaniously go to the next life at the moment of death.

In the first example, you recall all of your previous lives and information about yourself each time you die again. You can choose whether you want to live again or not. You can choose to live again, just kinda hang around in the afterlife, or return to "The Source" again until you get bored and decide to separate back out again.

In the second example, there is a set process and ways that things happen. Typically in most believe systems, the sequence goes: Mineral, Plant, Animal, Human, (and then higher up beings). On top of this, there is also a cycle of evolution and devolution of souls. You keep going up the chain, and if you reach the top and you haven't become "enlightened" after a certain number of lifetimes, you start going back down again and start over. In Buddhism this is known as the Wheel of Samsara.

So there aren't really any "new" or "old" souls. In the grand scheme of things, they are all really part of the same thing!
. Sort of like a worm cutting itself into five pieces and becoming five worms, except it is in control and able to put itself back together at any time it wants, and it is conciously aware and in control of all of it's pieces.

Hopefully that helps a little. If not, keep asking questions and I'll keep spewing stuff out =).

Disclaimer: I do not necessarily believe in reincarnation as 100% fact, and I don't consider myself an expert on the topic. Views discussed are speculative at best, although based on several years of research into spirituality and religions.


[edit on 31-1-2006 by Yarcofin]



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 03:48 PM
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May i recommend posting this in a more appropriate area and you will get more of a response because more people will be interested in it.



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 04:04 PM
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Ahh, Return of the Living Dead! lol


How does re-encarnation supposedly work? Would there be enough souls from the begginig of the human race?



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 04:13 PM
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Yes, I believe that reincarnation exists.
About the Death -> Frozen -> Bring back to life. Well, I don't think that is a possibility, think about those who die with brain dead activity. It's the same, the body remains but without consciousness, becoming useless.

Well, who knows huh?



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 05:20 PM
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I have had people tell me that they were walk-ins. When the soul that was occupying the body they are now using rose and left, they were able to enter. The whole concept actually gives me the creeps, no offense to walk-ins. I am firm on life after death, but as to the nature of that....
Well, reincarnation is top of my list. Whatever others believe is great, I am happy for them.



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 05:32 PM
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Wouldn't reencarnation mean that the population could not grow beyond its original number?

Think about it, theres not enough souls to go around.



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by Alien DNA
How many of you believe in reincarnation? well I was thinking about it today and decided it is not possible, heres the reason why.
Think about the people that have had there bodies frozen after death, well lets say in a few years they have the medical technology to bring them back to life, well if after death they reincarnated into somebody else what would happen if the scientists bring there old body back to life?




I do believe in reincarnation..

this earthly vehicle is not necessary for us, 'us', for what we are, to exist.

It's is just, or just might be a crystalisation of 'us' in this crystalized 'third' dimension. A body is made before the host arrives. This might be what I believe in. The mother keeps the foetus alive. The host comes in, takes place, and when the cord is cut from the mother to the child, the child starts to live on itself. Completely on its own. Somehow how I look at it now. To me reincarnation exists. I might say denying this is an ignorant act. Or just a act on not knowing. Still a question might be, when is the host chosen? What spirit it might be? Who deicides? Who let's through the gate? Or better, what?

Do spirits have emotions? I mean feelings? Or do we only have feelings when in a body, and the body only has these feelings? Is the spirit only a fuel to make a body live. And live its emotions and feelings?

When only the body has emotions and feelings, or does the spirit copy its emotion and feeling to the body, as to the body growing in it, being its spirit, then it is not equal what spirit hosts it, but when frozen? Isn't the body functioning then like very very slow? I mean, all atoms stabalized? The body completely stopped but the spirit still hosting, like the spirit being there, but unable to heaten the body to its temperature, the fuel inside, but outside environment forcing more cold on the body then the spirit can give, or wants to give, heat. So the spirit still hosting the body, when the environment allows the spirit to heat the body up, the body becoming loose again, and able to move.

I might think that a frozen one really can be awakened again.

But I mean, frozen after death, needs another incarnation to make that body alive again. Summoning a spirit and letting it take place in the body again, this not being the same spirit for, why has this spirit left its body?

Raising a dead one by another spirit is pure demonical. Spiritual, magical? Call it what you will. Might depend on what kind of spirit takes place for it being demonical or magical or whatever..

never mind, I mean, first dead, and then frozen, needs another incarnation, frozen untill 'death', but let us say, untill a coma-state, might be that freezing is just an alternative to a 'coma'? Spirit not able to use the body, but locked in it, this body not dead, for it is completely blocked to move, because of stabalized atoms then when frozen, hmm.. far fetched? And then awakening the body by letting it get its own temperature again, .....

Might be possible


Dr. Freeze.

reincarnation exists, or at least, incarnation! They only have to take one back which has been here before, and a re-incarnation took place.


I don't find your argument quite convincing, alienDNA, but mine might be the same..

greets,

AA

[edit on 31-1-2006 by alienaddicted]



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 06:28 PM
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Reincarnation doesn't make sense! Haven't you heard everyone is unique? Unless you're a clone. Tell me one reincarnated person you know...



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 06:32 PM
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Here I am...I look in the mirror and I know.

I have my reasons for this belief and it's unshakable.

Uniqueness comes through experience...every soul is unique and yet of the same source. I could not tell another reincarnated person for the mere fact that I am not that person (formed by the accumulated experiences which shaped him/her).



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 06:49 PM
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Sure, reincarnation is possible. Anything is possible (if it happens).

But seriously, though, look at it this way: energy is neither produced or disappears, it merely alters. Our bodies, our very being, is just energy.

What happens when we die? Our bodies rot, become food for some microbs, which in turn produce enzymes for other biological life, and on and on... our bodies produce the energy that other things need to exists.

Likewise, our "being".

What are we? Are we this physical mass of flesh? Or are we something more? Where in our bodies can we find our being? The heart? The mind? Are we the sum of our parts? What happens if you get an amputation? Are you any less then what you were? Cosmetic surgery? Brain surgery?

The "being" factor should, in essence, be considered an energy. Granted, our bodies are here, but they are merely containers: does someone in a coma still exist? What of an idiot savant? We think, we understand... we feel, and have a will. None of these things can be determined by the physical.

Will power. Being. Soul. These are the things that drive us, this is the energy which makes us continue forward when we know things are hopeless.

With that being said...

Our will power/being/soul as an energy cannot disappear when we die. It is an energy, and energy always changes, it never disappears.

Do our souls continue to another existance, like an after-life? Many religions say they do. But, just as many religions say we are remade here, on this plane. Then again, there are also those religions which say we continue here until we learn what it is we keep screwing up on...

Is an afterlife reincarnation? We died, we came back... albiet in a different existance, but we came back.

Is karmatic reincarnation reincarnation? We died, come back as another lifeform (cow, for example). Could this be reincarnation?

Or how about this... (which is on another thread, too)... ALL time lines exist at the same time. Past lives do not exist, for we are still there/here at the same time. Deja vu is not just a glimpse into the future, nor do prophets see into the future, but rather that we are there at the same time. Past, present, future, all at once. Isn't quantum physics fun? In this sense, reincarnation does not exist, because time does not exist.

Do I believe in reincarnation? Yes, yes I do. I also believe that souls can be split into numerous pieces, and each life grants you a chance to become part of a greater whole. I also believe that some of us are reborn to relearn things, or for a second (thirs, forth, fifth) chance... almost like limbo.

Now, about the whole frozen body idea...

Your body never died. Thus, your soul never had a reason to leave. You wouldn't be reborn, because you never died. You are SUSPENDED, doctors REANIMATED you. Even if you were to use the example of soeone dies while drowning, and doctors bring him back to life... fine, okay... but whose to say it was your time to go? Was Lazarus a reanimated souless zombie when Jesus brought him back to life? Or was it more of "My friend, I really need you, come back to me"?



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 06:52 PM
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anyway,

one might not believe one when he says he is reincarnated. Why should he when he does not believe it himself. Denying reincarnation is fearing the unknown, which should not be feared, but accepted. Your true self, claiming reincartion does not exist is claiming you are your body, but that's which you are not. A sword can not kill you, but it can destroy your body. Wich makes you unable to act in this third realm you look outside at. Except when one is able to manifestate himself in this realm, mwoeha, as a cumcumber, lolzie, not happenin', pss, now, nothing is more frustrating to the body then losing its breath, or the thought of it, that is why it ignores these questions. better, that is why your ego ignores these questions, why .. going off topic

beliefs are different,.. I like to, or tend to believe, or tend to like to believe this is existing. It's in fact that which I believe, of that which is??... mysteries? let him who knows come forth and speak!



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 06:59 PM
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Humans are already reanimated after being frozen -

- people fall through the ice and 'die' all the time and are
brought back. You see it on the news .. kids ice skating and
they fall through - frozen and 'dead' and then revived.

- human beings are frozen as embryos (or zygots or whatever)
and then implanted in women years later. They are little
humans ... their souls are in their forming bodies.

Reincarnation ?? It's a depressing thought. I certainly
don't want to be stuck coming back here again .. to have
to go through childhood and school and listening to parents
and the rest all over again. UGH. I'm an adult and to do
all that would be going BACKWARDS. The whole thought
behind reincarnation is to learn and go forwards. Seems
like a waste of time to me.

However, God can do what ever He wants to and if He deems
that a soul or two need reincarnation for whatever reason He
sees .. then who am i to argue with Him?



posted on Feb, 1 2006 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by Yarcofin

sinta_ilfirin, (by the way, I like your avatar. Yay for Tolkien.)

Here is my best guesstimate...
All souls come from a single source, The Creator, if you will. Not necessarily a God, maybe it is just the universe as a whole. The Universe at one time was a single "soul". But being everything there is, you cannot necessarily experience things, so it divided itself up into many pieces, being everything and super-powerful. So it made itself into light and dark, large and small, mass and emptiness, etc. You see, although you may be everything there is in the entire universe, you can't know things unless you experience it. So it split itself up into separate souls, which are you and I. Thus even if we kill each other, there is a purpose behind it, and we are all on the same side. The person getting murdered is as much a part of it as the person murdering. They are all part of the same being, and each of them agreed to it before they were even born. Someone has to "play" good and evil, skeptic and believer, for it to work properly though. That is why you get your memory 'erased' every time you begin a new life.

There are also many different versions/schools of thought on reincarnation. You may get to conciously choose which life you will choose next, or you may just spontaniously go to the next life at the moment of death.

In the first example, you recall all of your previous lives and information about yourself each time you die again. You can choose whether you want to live again or not. You can choose to live again, just kinda hang around in the afterlife, or return to "The Source" again until you get bored and decide to separate back out again.

In the second example, there is a set process and ways that things happen. Typically in most believe systems, the sequence goes: Mineral, Plant, Animal, Human, (and then higher up beings). On top of this, there is also a cycle of evolution and devolution of souls. You keep going up the chain, and if you reach the top and you haven't become "enlightened" after a certain number of lifetimes, you start going back down again and start over. In Buddhism this is known as the Wheel of Samsara.

So there aren't really any "new" or "old" souls. In the grand scheme of things, they are all really part of the same thing!
. Sort of like a worm cutting itself into five pieces and becoming five worms, except it is in control and able to put itself back together at any time it wants, and it is conciously aware and in control of all of it's pieces.

Hopefully that helps a little. If not, keep asking questions and I'll keep spewing stuff out =).

Disclaimer: I do not necessarily believe in reincarnation as 100% fact, and I don't consider myself an expert on the topic. Views discussed are speculative at best, although based on several years of research into spirituality and religions.


[edit on 31-1-2006 by Yarcofin]



Thanks for the reply, I must say that that is the best or I should say clearest explanation to my question that I have recieved. I don't think I will ever believe in reincarnation; but I do like to learn about all facets of what people believe. The idea of reincarnation is definitley fascinating to me. Do you have any source material that you would recommend for reading and study?

Thanks for the compliment on my avatar.

[edit on 1-2-2006 by sinta_ilfirin]







 
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