Does Ballistic Missile Can Attack Aircraft Carrier Successfully?

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posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 01:42 AM
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I can agree with the thinking of ChinaWhites vision of theater to a degree. However the second any missle threat is detected incoming on US/NATO asset groups and deemed impact imminent. An alarming amount of all forces of the US air -naval- space- land- communication -Kitchen Sink-Etc. forces will respond and most likely so heavey as to dispell any Taiwan Invasion as your idea stands. Seriously I think the price for that invasion would be unreasonable even for China. IMO. Plus Russia could get angry like the Grizzly neighbours they are. You never know who theyll back. Just sayin. Ambitious plan though I give it a 6.




posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
KLub-S is a whole system, It includes sonar, guidence and three missiles. Anti-ship, Anti-submarine, and land attack cruise missile.

One of the main roles of the kilo submarines in PLAN service is maritne patrol which would suggest they are anti-ship and not land attack. Taiwan is only 100km from the chinese mainland and if a LACM or another missile type weapon were needed it wouldn't be fitted on very expensive submarines


I know, but obviously I'm asking about the missile types that the chinese have purchased.The Klub-S can encorporate all types but must be hardwired for particular missile types. I was also asking as different Klub-S missiles have different ranges/payloads/speeds.



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
All the chinese wargames are aimed at making chinas military more efficent and to practice a invasion of taiwan. Peace mission 2005 was aimed at that. in 1999 there was a 500,000 man wargames aimed at that. the 700 missiles aimed at taiwan is for that. the airforce moderization is aimed at that. chinas submarine moderization is aimed at that.


Compltely incorrect as usual
The Chinese want to build up their forces to break american homogeny in Asia and the Pacific. Only a complete moron would think CHina would invade Taiwan. Once again it shows how completely divorced from reality you are.



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
A Ballistic missile travels much faster than a ship or plane and once the AWACS has it in range than it will launch and reach the target in about 5 minutes depending on the distance the carrier is away. The only reason the PLA would attack the carrier is if the USAF intervened in a taiwan conflict. That would mean the carrier would be close to the mainland

Yes but does china keep its missiles on full alert status 24 hours a day? The chinese sea is a BIG place and looking for one group of ships which might be your carrier group or not. Thing is china white while your aircraft is flying towards it and keeping an eye on that Battle group, another AWACS is watching you and probably saying: "This guys watching us...."

I mean if the carrier battle group splits off into 7 different directions then what one do you fire at? The biggest one? The smallest dot?

Those kilos would also have to compete against US navy and the ASW threat which every ship in the USN poses to a submarine...



We are not talking about a ICBM missile but a SRBM. China has roughly 800 of these missiles next to the coast near taiwan. The stated range of the original missile is 150~500m CEP while the new missile fitted with GPS and a active guidence system is between 35-50m.

150 metres is a big distance....even with this large "claymore" style weapon do you think you can destroy a carrier? Even if you take out the carrier then your still going to loose a HELL of lot good quipment.



That is a generous under-estimation since the system has a GPS like system attached

You know who controls the GPS system....right?





The PLA is the only force in the world that practises salvo lanuchs. Two 2nd artillery batteries would be assigned to each carrier. That is 5 lanuchers each and about 10 missiles.

Hmm 10 missiles with this "scatter gun" effect? Impressive but how much prep time do these battalions need?





Theres no reprogramming. Its a datalink, active guidence. TVM....Like i've been saying that last few pages

Still can the missiles adjust for a moving target while in thier terminal stage?



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Yes but does china keep its missiles on full alert status 24 hours a day?


All PLA 2nd artillery are assigned with two crews, The a battilon in the 2nd artillery is twice as big as a infantry one. Some of the 2nd artillery units are kept on 24 hour standby because china is still at war with taiwan. But like i said before, the PLA will only attack if the US attacks first or looks like it will be attacking soon which would require all PLA units to be on standby



The chinese sea is a BIG place and looking for one group of ships which might be your carrier group or not.


There are numerous ways to find an aircraft carrier, One would be CNN which screened the carriers location in 1996 when china launched missiles over taiwan. Also china does have a bunch of sateillites in orbit which could track the carriers movements

You will think the whole chinese coast wouldn't be filled with fighters?



150 metres is a big distance....even with this large "claymore" style weapon do you think you can destroy a carrier?


No one said destory

Its not 150m its 35~50 meters. You probaly should look into the effect radius of the claymore and factor in 350kg of explosives



You know who controls the GPS system....right?


I said GPS like system. BeiDou-1 is already in PLA service and provides GPS like signals throughout asia



Hmm 10 missiles with this "scatter gun" effect? Impressive but how much prep time do these battalions need?


None. If a carrier was close enough they would have already prepared for lanuch. Once its lanuched its guided by information from the datalink


Still can the missiles adjust for a moving target while in thier terminal stage?


Just like any other missile will, Its active guidence, follows the "dot on the radar"

SAMs are aimed at planes much faster than a carrier. although the ballistic missile moves faster than the SAM the SAM has to hit a target much faster. The SM-III reportly hits ballistic missiles which is a bigger challenge than a ballistic missile to ship hit



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 01:05 AM
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The first sign your losing an argument is when you make personal attacks

You managed to fit in three lines of attacks in a four line paragraph

1# Compltely incorrect as usual
2# Only a complete moron would think CHina would invade Taiwan
3# Once again it shows how completely divorced from reality you are


You want to ask the moderators if we can have a moderated debate on it? You game for that?



Originally posted by rogue1
Compltely incorrect as usual
The Chinese want to build up their forces to break american homogeny in Asia and the Pacific. Only a complete moron would think CHina would invade Taiwan. Once again it shows how completely divorced from reality you are.


I'm glad you feel that way, maybe you could provide some proof this time
(get the pun?, since you dont provide proof like the other thread we were in)

So china will attack south east asia for no reason even though relations have been better than ever?. Even though the chinese populations in south east asia control their respective economies

Could you please tell me why the chinese army has done the following things

#1 - Stated in numerous conferences about invading taiwan
#2 - five war games in the last year alone focusing on invasion of a country strangly similar to taiwan
#3 - Trained personal in short endurance amphibious invasions with the same distance as taiwan
#4 - Peace mission 2005 map very similar to the cost near Taichung city in taiwan

- Short ranged landing craft
- Short range ballistic missiles
- short ranged cruise missile developments
- A whole concentration of PLA divisions in Nanjing military region
- SAM sites positioned to cover taiwan
- ETC




[edit on 4-7-2006 by chinawhite]



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
I was also asking as different Klub-S missiles have different ranges/payloads/speeds.


3M-54E and possibly the 91RE1 for anti-submarine warfare



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

3M-54E and possibly the 91RE1 for anti-submarine warfare


Yes.. according to sinodefence the missiles weren't delivered at the time the site put up an article on it which was Apr 05. So maybe they've got some now?

The IN spotted more PLAN Kilos on the way to China just recently:
Source

The articel states that these were the last of the batch of 8, so its safe to assume that China has all its Kilos in the basket.
Now thats 8 Kilos with 5 3M-54E per sub so thats 40 missiles at least when all are loaded. But have the missiles been delivered to the PLAN already? Maybe they've test launched some? Any news on that?These are very important milesstones in getting the subs to full operational capacity. I suspect the whole process may take another year at least, before the subs are fitted with 'live' missiles and have totally operational crews on board. So for the time being, the PLAN Kilos aren't ready to take on PACCOM.



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 04:22 AM
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The crews had been training in russia before the submaines arrived and some of them made their trip with PLAN crew inside and the others were lifted on speical submarine carriers



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 06:31 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
All PLA 2nd artillery are assigned with two crews, The a battilon in the 2nd artillery is twice as big as a infantry one. Some of the 2nd artillery units are kept on 24 hour standby because china is still at war with taiwan. But like i said before, the PLA will only attack if the US attacks first or looks like it will be attacking soon which would require all PLA units to be on standby

To be honuest your going to keep your rockets fully fueled and prepped 24 hours a day on the off chance that you MIGHT have a carrier in the thousands of square miles?




There are numerous ways to find an aircraft carrier, One would be CNN which screened the carriers location in 1996 when china launched missiles over taiwan.

Eh?
How can you tell where they are? The ocean holds no land marks dude!


Also china does have a bunch of sateillites in orbit which could track the carriers movements

Yes but most likely they'll be shot down by the USAF.


You will think the whole chinese coast wouldn't be filled with fighters?

Firghters dont have the legs to reach the carrier without tankers and that requires indepth planning.



Its not 150m its 35~50 meters.

With GPS, which the yanks would most likely turn off.


You probaly should look into the effect radius of the claymore and factor in 350kg of explosives

They probably would be effective, if they hit the right target and if they didnt miss.



I said GPS like system. BeiDou-1 is already in PLA service and provides GPS like signals throughout asia

Yes and as I mentioned earlier, how easy would it be to destroy such a satalite or even shut it down.



None. If a carrier was close enough they would have already prepared for lanuch. Once its lanuched its guided by information from the datalink

How do you know when a carrier is close enough?



Just like any other missile will, Its active guidence, follows the "dot on the radar"

I mean how effectively can it change mid flight? This is no Super mobile cruise missile remember, a ballistic missile first goes up then uses gravity to let it drop.
Also this D-25, what did you state the CEP for it?


SAMs are aimed at planes much faster than a carrier. although the ballistic missile moves faster than the SAM the SAM has to hit a target much faster. The SM-III reportly hits ballistic missiles which is a bigger challenge than a ballistic missile to ship hit


A SAM missile doesnt use gravity to let it fall, it chases the missile and is designed to be mobile, hell even SAM's have thier limits.



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
So china will attack south east asia for no reason even though relations have been better than ever?. Even though the chinese populations in south east asia control their respective economies


Erm right, I said vompletely the opposite, maybe you should wear glasses next time. Once again you compltely miscomprehend a simple statement.


ou please tell me why the chinese army has done the following things

#1 - Stated in numerous conferences about invading taiwan
#2 - five war games in the last year alone focusing on invasion of a country strangly similar to taiwan
#3 - Trained personal in short endurance amphibious invasions with the same distance as taiwan
#4 - Peace mission 2005 map very similar to the cost near Taichung city in taiwan


Chest beating nothing more. If you think otherwise then you really should learn more about the realities of the PRC - ROC relationship. It seems you don't know anything.
I fnd it hillarious that you re about as far removed from CHina as can be, yet claim to know the intentions of the government. I know otherwise, I actually speak and intereact with peole in China all teh time - I live here



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 07:57 AM
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I'll go in depth tommorrow, busy atm


Originally posted by devilwasp
To be honuest your going to keep your rockets fully fueled and prepped 24 hours a day on the off chance that you MIGHT have a carrier in the thousands of square miles?


Or the day taiwan has a national referendum. The design of the missile were not designed to hit a carier in particular but it allows it to hit one




How can you tell where they are? The ocean holds no land marks dude!


You dont give coordinates based on landmarks but on longitude and latitude


Yes but most likely they'll be shot down by the USAF.


Your going to refer to some "black project"?



Firghters dont have the legs to reach the carrier without tankers and that requires indepth planning.


You might like to check which fighters china has. Your thinking on the lines on a missile attack on the USN with ballistic missiles alone which i am not getting at. Fighters will already be up there in the air fighting taiwanese fighters


With GPS, which the yanks would most likely turn off.


ITS NOT GPS


Yes and as I mentioned earlier, how easy would it be to destroy such a satalite or even shut it down.


You want me to play fairy tales to?


How do you know when a carrier is close enough?


When it as radar contact


This is no Super mobile cruise missile remember, a ballistic missile first goes up then uses gravity to let it drop. Also this D-25, what did you state the CEP for it?


Refer back to the top page and previous post. Can you see the fins on the missile



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 08:14 AM
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Funny talking about living in china.....You dont even know where you live, only the factory name



Two in two lines, im impressed

1#Erm right, I said vompletely the opposite, maybe you should wear glasses next time.
2#Once again you compltely miscomprehend a simple statement.


Originally posted by rogue1
Erm right, I said vompletely the opposite, maybe you should wear glasses next time. Once again you compltely miscomprehend a simple statement.


Quote from you
""The Chinese want to build up their forces to break american homogeny in Asia and the Pacific"""

Sounds like it to me


Chest beating nothing more. If you think otherwise then you really should learn more about the realities of the PRC - ROC relationship. yet claim to know the intentions of the government


Your kidding me right?

I talk to the people on china-defense.com, experts in their field. Xinhui (moderator) was asked by congress to give his opinion of the chinese military. Other members hold dipolmas on china relations. I learn their opinions, who do you know?. taiwanese ndustralist?

Also you might like to read the papers published in china and watch CCTV 4 for chinese language news or CCTV 9 for english chinese news. My understandings of china far outweigh your meage knowledge



I know otherwise, I actually speak and intereact with peole in China all teh time - I live here


And that means anything because?

1# - Common people dont know and dont care what happens
2# - Far away from any important centres
3# - They only know what they read in chinese media (which you ahve criticsed for being censored)



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
Funny talking about living in china.....You dont even know where you live, only the factory name


I chose not to bother telling you, other members know full well where I am. Why do you think I'd care to bother telling you ? You are of no importance to me in the slightest. What I found even funnier is that you wanted to come over and check it out LMAO - only a child would think that like - TOO FUNNY.



Quote from you
""The Chinese want to build up their forces to break american homogeny in Asia and the Pacific"""

Sounds like it to me


Like I said you can't comprehend much
Not much of a thinker are you. This statement doesn't mean invading Asia
Kinda obvious, well maybe not to the stupid.



I talk to the people on china-defense.com, experts in their field. Xinhui (moderator) was asked by congress to give his opinion of the chinese military. Other members hold dipolmas on china relations. I learn their opinions, who do you know?. taiwanese ndustralist?


LOL, right of course. You wouldn't knw who you're talking to half the time. As I said you don't live in CHina you have no idea of the pulse of the people. I find this statement hillarious, obviously you can't think for yourself, you only chose others opinions, how typical. Not the brain really are you.


Also you might like to read the papers published in china and watch CCTV 4 for chinese language news or CCTV 9 for english chinese news. My understandings of china far outweigh your meage knowledge


Yah, whatever you say
You have priven yourself time again to hvae barely any knowlege of CHina, most of the tim you either completely embellish things or just make them up. Many members have pinted out your lies.




1# - Common people dont know and dont care what happens
2# - Far away from any important centres
3# - They only know what they read in chinese media (which you ahve criticsed for being censored)


Hmm shows how little you know and that you obviously have no contact with people livng here. Many people have an opinion and express it. Bt of course you and you " expert " internet opinions ust be right LMAO. As I said only the very stupid would think CHina will invde Taiwan. The fact that I intereact with people from bth countries gives me an insight far greater than you could ever understand, reading a few opsts from your " experts " - you know most "experts" turn out to be wrong.

You do know that people in the major cities express the same opinions
adn that the internet isn't really censored. You can read almost every site. The only sie which is censored that I hvae seen is wikipedia and Google Video. I can access any number of diverse opinions, pro CHina and anti-China. this just shows your lack of knowlege of this country.

Taiwan and China will reunify, with a system like HK. The majoirity of Taiwanese want reunification and teh the majority of mainland Chinese do not want war. Even someone of your low caliber should be able to read the tea leaves.

I must admit though there is nothing funnier than a supposed " Chinese " person chest beating, who doesn't even live in teh country and who without a doubt isn't a CHinese citizen. Please go ahead and blowsome more hot air LOL, after ll it is what you excel at.

[edit on 4-7-2006 by rogue1]

[edit on 4-7-2006 by rogue1]



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 12:06 PM
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Just replying to the original thread. "Ballistic missiles" is a bit of a misleading description since it is wholly feasible to fit guidence of some sort to the warhead. Already some so-called Ballistic missiles deviate from a truly ballistic flight profile. The extent to which a missile travelling at Mach 15 can adjust its aim point is limited, but could be enough to poinpoint a carrier.

At sea a Carrier is next to impossible and/or inpractrical to target with a ballistic missile, but in port it is as vulnerable as any other target. China could use them against the Taiwanese navy which like all navies spends a lot of time in ports in a rather predictible concerntration of assets.

A conventionally armed SRBM like SCUD could do some considerable damage to a carrier in port - a nuclear warhead and well you could miss by several miles and still destroy the carrier but then cities are more relevant targets for WW3 - carriers become almost inconsequential.






[edit on 4-7-2006 by planeman]



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 11:24 PM
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First you claim that the place you live in is third world, then you only know the factories name and now you claim to communicate with ordinary chinese even though you dont even know a simple name?. Strangly, i have trouble believing you

You want me to give you a page of chinese words and see if you can translate?. It will be basic year 10 chinese questions. You speak cantonese or chinese.

List of personal attacks

- You are of no importance to me in the slightest
- only a child would think that like - TOO FUNNY
- Like I said you can't comprehend much
- Not much of a thinker are you
- Kinda obvious, well maybe not to the stupid.
- You wouldn't knw who you're talking to half the time
- obviously you can't think for yourself
- Not the brain really are you.
- Hmm shows how little you know
- Even someone of your low caliber should be able to read the tea leaves.




Taiwan and China will reunify, with a system like HK.


Im going to request that me and you have a debate on this with the moderators. Your point will be that china and taiwan will reunify like HK and my point is they wont. Are you finally going to have a debate


Originally posted by rogue1
I chose not to bother telling you, other members know full well where I am.


You cant tell me because you dont even know

And you cant even come up with a location name. You claim to live in china though you dont have the slightest clue where you live

One is Hai Fong, another is Hai phong?. Or is that the factory your living in. You cant tell anyone because you dont een know yourself. I wasn't the one which asked you nor you told me. It was another memeber in the other thread which asked and you told

You said that was the place you lived when i caught you out with two accounts then someone questioned the location and know the story is, its a factory name


Like I said you can't comprehend much


Repeat

""The Chinese want to build up their forces to break american homogeny in Asia and the Pacific"""


You wouldn't knw who you're talking to half the time. As I said you don't live in CHina you have no idea of the pulse of the people.


I can name 100 differences between people living in fujian, hunan guandong and beijing. What makes you know the "pulse" of the people.

The majority of people in guandong dont talk mardarin, how to you ahve a clue about the pulse of the people. I can also go into chinese jokes about the northern chinese, since im from the south. I like to see you name some sterotypical views southern chinese have of the north

You came to know the peoples pulse though you go to the region which is the most non-traditional chinese. They speak a different language celebrate different events and cook differently from other regions of china

If you want to know the pulse of the chinese people, you should go to henan or hunan, They are known as the heartbeak of chinese society. This is the area all chinese originated from. This is the area where the revolution happens and most people trace their ancestors to this area.


Many members have pinted out your lies.


Who?. Mad scientist and rouge1?. Oh, i forgot, their the same person

You always claim one-liners without even providing any proof or names or anything to back your statments up. Just like your many houses and you 80,000 workers. Nothing



The fact that I intereact with people from bth countries gives me an insight far greater than you could ever understand, reading a few opsts from your " experts " - you know most "experts" turn out to be wrong.


And i dont?


And most experts turn out to be wrong?. So your going to be right?

You said
"If you think otherwise then you really should learn more about the realities of the PRC - ROC relationship."

I think taiwanese experts and people which analyse the relationship and the staments made by both sides would know much more than you would know from talking to the "pulse" of the chinese people. Do you even know how both governments are run, why their statments are important. Do you know what their last important policy change was?

Do you even know about the recent taiwanese scandal?


You do know that people in the major cities express the same opinions
adn that the internet isn't really censored.


Wikipedia and google?, Google was jsut recently allowed to provide services to china (under chinese conditions) and wikipedia gets blocked from time to time. They even have a page stating so

You might like to use the main chinese search engines sina-com, Baidu.com. Anyway there are only 110 million internet users in china, which means the main means of communications are not though the world wide web but though state controlled TV and radio. So if majority of the chinese people only have access to government controlled media and i have access to that and more, that means i am more aware than they are to what is happening in china.

And people expressing their opinions?. In private


[edit on 4-7-2006 by chinawhite]



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
You cant tell me because you dont even know

And you cant even come up with a location name. You claim to live in china though you dont have the slightest clue where you live.


LOL, I know exactly where I am, I chose not to tell you. You can of course always ask a mod where my IP is from can't you



You said that was the place you lived when i caught you out with two accounts then someone questioned the location and know the story is, its a factory name


Yep it's the factory name and the name of the town. The town came after the factory


Anyways BS all you want, the fact remains you live in country Victoria in Southern Australia. I live in China - who would know more about the situation, certainly not you. I am beginning to doubt you've ever been to CHina, you seem to use other peopels opinions you find on the internet. Obviously you hvae no experience over here.

LOL and you didn't catch me with 2 accounts, it is well know to alot of moderators adn members, long before you " discovered " it LOL.

Now do your homework and let the adults speak



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
Or the day taiwan has a national referendum.

Your telling me you'll keep the missiles at 24 hour readiness as soon as they have a referendum? Bit oppresive isnt it?


The design of the missile were not designed to hit a carier in particular but it allows it to hit one

This is what we're discussing, if it can.




You dont give coordinates based on landmarks but on longitude and latitude

So how do you tell where they are if they just show shots of aircraft flying off the deck?
Stars?



Your going to refer to some "black project"?

en.wikipedia.org...
One F-15 and an ASAT is all it takes.



You might like to check which fighters china has. Your thinking on the lines on a missile attack on the USN with ballistic missiles alone which i am not getting at.


I already have, then why bring fighters into this?


Fighters will already be up there in the air fighting taiwanese fighters

Ofcourse they will, hence why the USN would place a carrier within range of taiwan, OUT of range of the PLAAF aircraft.



ITS NOT GPS

I know, you mentioned this later in your post, I was too busy to go back and change it.



You want me to play fairy tales to?

en.wikipedia.org...
Fairy tales?



When it as radar contact

So the PLAAF has radar able to identify the class of a ship?



Refer back to the top page and previous post. Can you see the fins on the missile

Yes they only guide it on its way down, even they have limits.



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 04:21 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Your telling me you'll keep the missiles at 24 hour readiness as soon as they have a referendum? Bit oppresive isnt it?


Their in a state of war. They need to be prepared, thats why there are different states of readiness



So how do you tell where they are if they just show shots of aircraft flying off the deck?


No, they actually had maps of the approximate location of the carrier. The plane will then either go close to the area or be on standby on chinas coast waiting until the carrier is near the distance which can be verifed with chinas spy satillites


en.wikipedia.org...
One F-15 and an ASAT is all it takes.


All their supply of missiles is where?. And the chinese sateillite travels over the US?



Ofcourse they will, hence why the USN would place a carrier within range of taiwan, OUT of range of the PLAAF aircraft.


What will the use be when their so far away to attack only PLAN vessels?


en.wikipedia.org...
Fairy tales?


yes fairy tales, your assuming that their are missiles use ready to lanuch


So the PLAAF has radar able to identify the class of a ship?


No, its size compared to other ships around it


Yes they only guide it on its way down, even they have limits.


We are not talking about something that moves very fast. The faster the missile goes the less time the boat has to move about



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 04:32 AM
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You dont want to prove you can speak chinese or have a debate considering how fired up you where before with all those attacks on me?


Originally posted by rogue1
Yep it's the factory name and the name of the town.


A town, its not listed on any maps. And like warset pointed out, not even in the chinese language. Your town sounds like some poor area of china. Apart from the fact that you spelt the same factory with two different names shows what you know about the chinese language

Warset
"""there is no such a place called "Hai Fong", the spelling "Fong" doesn't exist in Pinyin. It must be a taiwanese spelling or sumthin """"

You
"""It is the name of the factory, they can call it whatever they want""""


Anyways BS all you want, the fact remains you live in country Victoria in Southern Australia.


Even though i have NEVER said i lived in country victoria you still presist with that lie.

Here is some quotes beforehand

HowlrunnerIV
""In peak hour traffic it takes a full hour and a half to get from the CBD out to Dandenong, sometimes longer. If you live out at Belgravia, Beaconsfield, Healesville etc it can be 2 hours, and they are part of greater Melbourne.""

Me
"""
Well we have completely different situations.

I can drive for ten mintues to any where and find a shopping centre.

Have you been to dandenong cranbourne? or anywhere near that. these areas are how the Majority of australians live like, not some bumkin-ute driving out-post. """


And this is HowlrunnerIV talking about life

"""When I lived in central Australia it was a 5 hour drive to Alice Springs and a 13 hour drive to Adelaide. Bendigo, I've dealt with, also Albury-Wodonga. Launceston and Hobart are two hours apart. Austalians drive these distances regularly. The Barossa Valley is more than an hour from Adelaide, people commute that down the highway daily. Even the people stuck in the burbs of Sunbury will regularly travel into the CBD. """"


I have never once said I live in country victoria


I live in China - who would know more about the situation, certainly not you.


You live in southern china, a small factory town with third world conditions. Not even close to mainstream china. You only know about your factory and the workers of your factory. Difference between that and my own situation talking to cousins living in most areas of china?. I have very large extended family ties

REPEAT

I can name 100 differences between people living in fujian, hunan guandong and beijing. What makes you know the "pulse" of the people.

The majority of people in guandong dont talk mardarin, how to you ahve a clue about the pulse of the people. I can also go into chinese jokes about the northern chinese, since im from the south. I like to see you name some sterotypical views southern chinese have of the north

You came to know the peoples pulse though you go to the region which is the most non-traditional chinese. They speak a different language celebrate different events and cook differently from other regions of china

If you want to know the pulse of the chinese people, you should go to henan or hunan, They are known as the heartbeak of chinese society. This is the area all chinese originated from. This is the area where the revolution happens and most people trace their ancestors to this area.



I am beginning to doubt you've ever been to CHina,


Really?

Enough said




yoeu sem to use other peopels opinions you find on the internet.


Use other peoples opinions?. I think thats very funny since i'm opinionative and express unique opinions and debate issues with them. I have never once used someone elses opinion as my own. I will either agree with them or disagree

Ask people on china-defense and see if I go there and agree with anything they say or if i go their and question their opinions. I am hardly a person to go and copy someones thoughts even if i respect their opinions and think well of them. You might like to go and copy something but i wont


LOL and you didn't catch me with 2 accounts, it is well know to alot of moderators adn members, long before you " discovered "


I did catch you pretending to be two different members. You did that twice to me and a few other times to other members and gave yourself a standing ovation

quote: Originally posted by mad scientist to rouge1 (same person)

Rogue1 I agree with you statements in regards to the information iskander posted. Anyways, I hope to see some more of your excellent posts. Cheers



[edit on 5-7-2006 by chinawhite]





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