Jesus/Horus/Krshna/etc=the same?

*cough*, Wow! The things I take for granted. I never thought that "the church" as mentioned in the Bible would be taken as a building.

Yep, I agree with TC, 'Church' is not a literal denomination... We are brothers in faith , we are ALL part of the church of Christ, we are all part of the body of christ...

The Bride / church / body is made up of ALL believers, what you are is merely the 'arm' of the church .. not the entire church itself.

You are misguided here Truth, TC and I are your brothers in christ, even if you don't achnologe it.

Could we be any less? Just becase we don't attend your church? If this is what you are being taught then be very careful ... this path leads to a cult ... to place yourself above others just because of the denomination you attend, is one of the main sources of dissention in the Body of Christ.

"Truth" lying about what you beleive so as to imply that somehow what you say is valid is still lying. What reason do we have to accept anything you claim to be true????

[Edited on 7-11-2002 by Toltec]

TC why dont you believe me?

The bible clearly indicates ina non parable way that
it is an actual place of worship.

he talks many time, paul peter, that behave in the church, women should not talk in the church.

we have a doctrine stating women cannot be preist. thats what he meant.

malaci says a clean oblation will be offered to his name in all nations??

this is the eucharist TC. Why can you not put aside your hate towards the men of the church and relaize this?

all churches will have hypocrites but it does not change the church it self.

We do not condemn men to hell. My catechism teaches tell them the truth about jesus and his church and let them decide. Love men and women
as individuals in other religions.

do you want the qoute out of my catechism??

Pleas do not attack the church i love to death and the church god has shown me and led me to. Not by my will TC. i hated religion.

Please, you guys attack this church and have no clue that god founded it.

Im not condemning you, i want you to realize this, not because im a fundamentaliist, but
because im a man who hated religion and has been led here through miracles.

Ill give you guys this topic to take over. I cant force you to have faith.

Ill be martyred for my faith.

peace.

hi all
Christianity has existed since jesus Christ left his apostles to go out and preach to all.(sorry im in the local library and dont have much time to write down alot).
Catholisism as in Roman Catholic split from the eastern orthodox church...1054 was the great scism and east and west went seperate ways .....
who holds on to the true teachings of the apostles ?
look at the canons of the early church and why there was a split from the early christian church........
sorry i have to go cause im in the library ...
write soon

Originally posted by Truth The bible clearly indicates ina non parable way that it is an actual place of worship.

This much *is* true...However, *your Church* takes it as being a particular type of building with a particular name on it. The *true* Church of God is *anywhere people meet to worship & praise Him*. The *true* Church of God can be right in your own living room...Or it could be down the street at a local cafe as you sit down with friends over a sodapop to talk about God.

Originally posted by Truth he talks many time, paul peter, that behave in the church, women should not talk in the church.

That's Paul & Peter's doctrine...It's not God's doctrine. God's doctrines are laid out clearly in the Ten Commandments...Everything else is merely the biases & ramblings of *men*. Of all of the doctrines taught in your church, how many of them came from God Himself? Answer: 10; No more, no less. You're still getting caught up in so many details wrought by the minds of *men* that you're failing to see the whole picture again...

Originally posted by Truth all churches will have hypocrites but it does not change the church it self.

They *do* change the Church if those hypocritic men happen to hold positions of power. I've even read in these threads how much you've been personally denouncing the Pope himself! And here you are saying that these "heretics" cannot change the Church itself.

How many times has the Vatican *changed* the content of the Bible into all of its current versions...Even each *version* has been changed more times than I'm willing to count. Each time the Bible has gotten changed, it's been changed by *men* who have authority in Church heirarchy...And Church policies have changed right along with it. How much more are you going to continue to support those lies & acts of duplicity?

Originally posted by Truth Please, you guys attack this church and have no clue that god founded it.

Again you still don't look at the real truth...God founded the basis of Faith...Men are the ones who wrote scripture & founded churches. God did not take up quill & parchment to write any scriptures...The *only* scriptures directly attributed to the Hand of God is the Ten Commandments, but He didn't use parchment...His Laws were literally set in stone. God didn't take up a shovel in His own Hand to break ground for the foundation of any building...That *also* was the works of men.

Originally posted by Truth We do not condemn men to hell.

Not in those exact words, but every time you exclaim that "you will face the wrath of God", it's saying the same thing. Different words, same connotation. You're contradicting yourself yet again.

Originally posted by Truth Please, you guys attack this church and have no clue that god founded it. Im not condemning you, i want you to realize this, not because im a fundamentaliist, but
because im a man who hated religion and has been led here through miracles.

You're getting the wrong impression, at least about me; I don't hate your church...I just don't have any faith in it's *version* of the truth. Besides, the Catholic Church doesn't need *us* to attack its reputation & lack of sincerity...It's own *history* condemns it more than we ever could.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say about Jesus founding the catholic church.

Was'nt it the emperor Constantine, (after his partial conversion) did he not join together the heathen and the true christians to try and bring peace amongst them. So what was formed was the Roman catholic church. In order to please both of the groups, Constantine changed the sabbath to a sunday. The heathen worshiped the sun God on the sunday, Hence why it is called this. The christians also wanted to have a sabbath. Constantine realised that there could not be two full days of worship so he changed the sabbath from saturday to sunday.
I have also read that the catholic church did many years ago do away with some of the ten commandments and replace them with others.

One thing I dont understand is that if Jesus said to take up our cross and follow him, and also he refused all the kingdoms that satan offered him Then why is it that when we look at the pope and his bishops and how thayare dressed and dripping in gold. and the Vatican is all marble and gold and very wealthy?. This does not at all look like the way Jesus and his apostles lived. For Jesus said that he has no place to lay his head.
Does anyone really think the Roman catholic church lives by faith the same as Jesus did?.

Truth I feel you need to go back and examine your interpretation of 1st corinthians chapter 14. Paul was not talking about speaking in his mind.

no no no no, stewards, you misunderstand and believe liars who
attack the church.

I will explaain the sabbath. But before i do, i would like to say specific words are not mentioned
in the bible because if god literally came out and told everybody the exact name of the church and what the bible means
everybody would be (lax) and no one would study the faith.

God wants you to seek.

Also the exact word trinity is not in the bible but it is a ture thing even protestants believe.

see.

Now aabout the sabbath.

The "old" law was abrogated upon institution of the new law. everything that was at the heart
of the old law was gone except the commands.

Follow with me here..

god commanded the 'observance" of a definite day, in order that man
may devote one day a week to the worship of his creator.

In the "Old" law, the celebaration of a definite day, the sabbath,
had been ordered only specially for the "jews", just as circumscision and bloody
sacrafices were.

But the old law was abrogated upon the new law of the new sacrafice.

read

Acts 10:15

Col 2:16

Gal 4- 10:11


The vital principle of the thrid commandment was not a specific day.

remember the old law was to the jews and was abrogated upon the new, thus the gentiles have our own sabbath and
ill explain.

the church commands us to keep holy the lords day which is sunday, because
sunday is when Christ "rose" from the dead, and sunday is also when
the holy ghost descended upon the apostles.

in the "new" law, catholics keep holy the first day of the week, sunday which
is called the lords day.

St paul refers to it twice

Acts 20:7

Cor 16:2


he replaced bloody sacrafices with the sacrafice of the mass and changed the sabbath by the changing
of "laws"

I know you got this off of the internet probably stewart, satan will stop at nothing to attack the church
and spread this type of stuff all over the internet.

peace.

Originally posted by stewardsConstantine changed the sabbath to a sunday. The heathen worshiped the sun God on the sunday, Hence why it is called this. The christians also wanted to have a sabbath. Constantine realised that there could not be two full days of worship so he changed the sabbath from saturday to sunday.

True, true...According to the Ten Commandments, "Thou shalt remember the Sabbath to keep it holy". The Sabbath, literally translated, is the *seventh day*...Saturday. By *changing* the day of Sabbath, Constantine broke God's Commandment! And the Catholics have been breaking that Law ever since.

Originally posted by Truth ...i would like to say specific words are not mentioned in the bible because if god literally came out and told everybody the exact name of the church and what the bible means everybody would be (lax) and no one would study the faith.

Does this mean that you're going to resort to original thought or merely going to repeat what another *fallable human being* told you? Doesn't the scripture (Also the words of *fallable human beings*) provide you with enough support anymore?

Originally posted by Truth
God wants you to seek.

This much is true...But I don't intentionally limit my search for God in any single *man-made* version of the Bible...I don't limit my search to any single religion. To do so would be to search with blinders on.

Yes yes yes yes Truth my friend

Well I'm happy to tell you that the info I posted there did not come from off the internet.

Concerning Constatine I'm afraid this is actual historical FACT. I got this info from an ninteenth century historian E.G WHITE. Who was also a christian. One of the books she wrote The Great Controvesy. She tells of the history of the catholic church and what they got up to.

I am not wishing to shun the catholics, But what is fact is fact, we can't changed that.

Would you please be able to look at one of my other posts in this thread and answer the quetions I put forth, concerning the difference between Christ, his apostles and the pope, his bishops and the vatican.

Thanks

Stweard and MD, constantine did not change the sabbath. this was
practiced by the church of the apostles.

Constantine made christianity the state religion in 313 a.d.

He did this after he saw a vision of the lord, then ater that the same night he dreamt of that vision. In
this dream of the vision god told him "in this sign thou shalt conquer "

the sign of the cross.

His mother was a saint who helped him convert.

Dont "judge" a man whom you do not know.

Now let me give you some passages.

Acts 20:7

"" And on the first day of the week, when we were
(assembled) to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, being to depart
on the morrow ""

again consantine did not chage it.

Col 2:16

"" Let (((No))) man therefore (judge) you in meat or drink, or in respect of
a festival (day), or of the new moon, or of the (sabbaths) ""

"" Which are a (shadow) of things to come, but the body is of christ "

And do you not jump so fast as to judge constantine when he did not change the sabbath. the early church
practiced these thing.

You can judge me on the sabbath but i will remember this qoute.

Guys look, i would not let myself remain in a false religion if i truley did not believe in it.

literally i did not lead myself to the church. i was sent into the church
through events you just cant understand on the internet.

I know where ive been led, and know that the church is christs only church. through miracles.

The only thing left i can say on this subject is the old law is erased by
the "new" law.

even christ got judged by doing work on the sabbath. "let no man judge you in matters of sabbaths"


You guys can take this thread over because i have no more to say.

peace.

Hmm...I'm sorry but I disagree with you Truth....see you are a religious fanatic, and have no concept that your church has rewritten the scriptures, and changed the laws REPEATEDLY....

...I mean look at Lucifer, Lucifer isn't even satan, in fact, Lucifer MEANS light barer, and its origin has NOTHING to do with Satan, it is of course a latin word...one of the ONLY words in the bible whose origin is from Latin and not Hebrew. At least one of the first...I don't know if they added any other names to the bible, but Lucifer was added by King James for very HUMAN. Not devine.

Sincerely,
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Also...Truth, I was making no *judgment*. I merely stated an obvious miscrepancy between the scripture & the common practice that doesn't follow the scripture.

In relation to satan consider, that in the Talmud version of the Lords Prayer its states "deliver us from the evil one". While in the version which the NT states is the words of Jesus is say's "Deliver us from Evil."

Something to take into consideration and implied is a change in the philosophy, of what we ask to be delivered from. Not so much an entity (or life form) but rather a state of mind.

What are your thoughts?

Yes but christianity has confused the "deliverance from evil" as to being that evil will one day be purged from the earth...There is not as much emphasis on one should not do evil, as there should be.

Sincerely,
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Another thing I just thought of actually....why is it that God will remove us from this place of evil?

Why isn't it "god will remove the evil from this place?"

Why should we go to heaven instead of continue living? Why not make this life heaven? Even buddhism is incorrect in its belief in Nirvana, none of these beliefs are healthy for humanity...

Hmm just a thought...

Sincerely,
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To the Buddhist this (Earth) is a part of heaven. When one reincarnates one does so because (as a result) they are engaged in an effort to make earth closer to the source (and for God that is a priority, which makes then this, a mandate to us).

The Buddhist does not believe the war in heaven is over. But rather that each act of evil committed by one of us is an attack against the Almighty. Jesus himself in all probability accepted reincarnation as valid. And it was only until Constantinople died this changed. The apostles accepted Reincarnation as valid what was written in the bible (NT as well as OT). Was written, taking reincarnation into consideration as a part of there faith.

And for what is about 1700 years this aspect of that faith has been denied and treated as demonic (what is wrong with this picture). To me Jesus is a very real son of God, one who faced an accusation of Heresy because of what he did (consuming blood and flesh symbolically).

Theoretically it is possible to overcome death, a capacity I know of and call "Sister".

What are your thoughts?

Originally posted by FreeMason Why should we go to heaven instead of continue living? Why not make this life heaven?

If I've interpreted Christianity correctly, it would be because if we tried to compare what we do on this planet to Heaven, God may consider it "false pride" since He *made* this planet for us in the first place. Greeks had a simular situation & called that sense of pride "Hubris"...The Greeks were *always* getting punished for it in one way or another.

The Bible is written under Divine guidance. God's words. He said it, I believe it, that settles it.

Even though the scriptures were written under Divine inspiration of God, I still have to point out that it was the hands of men (ordinary, fallable men) who actually wrote it...

Considering what problems that men have had with the numerous translations since the scriptures were first written, it's kind of like "playing the telephone game" with intermediaries between God & me when I'm reading scriptures...Some discrepencies are to be expected.

This is why I try to get the "gist" of the overall message rather than get myself too hung up on the actual wording itself.