Jesus/Horus/Krshna/etc=the same?

Actually as TC said you can often tell a cult by the way they try and tie in the bible to their belief system to give THEM legitmacy.

The bible stands alone but others need the bible to support their wacko ideas...

Originally posted by Netchicken If a group says they are the only way then I would start to see them as a cult...

Like the way that Truth proclaims the Catholic Church to be, several different times in several different threads?...More than anything else, this attitude is what's defeating his own purpose.

One lesson to be learned from history is that those who say "My way is the *only* way" are those who only wind up bringing more grief & suffering to this world...And isn't *that* what Satan's job is? Let's look closely at the historical *fact* in this...Hitler had to have it his own way...So did Stalin & hundreds of despots throughout the course of history & even into modern times with Bush & his Bully Boy Gang. It was the same attitude that brought us the Crusades & the Inquisitions..."I love you as I would my own brother, so I must kill you if you don't convert to my way of thinking. Don't dispair because it's God's will that I kill you."

In the military, those who have that kind of attitude are called "Burger Kings" because they have to have it "their own way"...They do this as a method of embarrassing people into blindly following orders.

And it's the attitude like Truth's that brought on all of that misery & atrocity..."My way is the *only* way" has *caused* more suffering & death than any other purpose conceived.

" My way is the only way "

incorrect. My way is no way, gods way is the only way.

MD, god has revealed his son to me, christ.

Christ did found a church, a place of gathering. prophets in the OT prophecy this church.

Ive been led to the church through miracles that obviously you cannot believe. If you were to take me serious, you would find i am a maan who is not lying
and would realize that this is true.

But you are blocked by history of religion, when men caused history.

MD i dont think jesus is the lord, i "know". This is just something that you cannot understand over the internet.

I "know" he created aan institution whom satan has aattacked and attacked since the beggining, and it has created many many holy people
and it has whther you believe or i believe the sacraments of perfection.

ie "confession' communion"

Look, if i said i dont believe in the church i would pay for knowing where god has put me.

If i had to denounce the church and jesus or die i would die because i know this is true.

MD, i used to hate religion two years ago. Literal miracles led me here to its teachings and events you cannot understand.


I cant force anybody to believe, just poor out my hearts to you guys telling you this is true.

peace.

Again, Fate guided you to Jesus, and Fate guided me away from it....Fate guides you where you need to go to reach the end, if you only listen to it...

Sincerely,
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All right more conversation and more ideas!! Cool beans!!
Cult this and cult that...
Adam Sandler had it right "whooppaddeeedoo!"

Who has a right to say what is and what isn't a cult? I could say that all Methodists are cults because they follow a Wesley who wanted to start a new form of religion based on Faith = heaven instead of works. Of how about Winegarden, or Calvin. I mean come on, this is ridiculous, if God had prophets, and apostles, teachers, priest, etc, for the unity of faith, well show me a Unity of faith between all Religions? Sure there are some basics that all beliefs share in, but that's where it actually begins. If you are off on the basics, then....
Anyways, I was just trying to expound on a few things of history. Catholicism has some good people trying to be honest Christians. As many faiths do, but(and there is always a but) let's be a little more careful on what is said. I was Catholic too once a long, long ago, but when they answered my questions with "those are the mysteries of God and no one needs to know them because He is God." I had to make my own choices. I am not going to claim visions and stuff like that because that stuff is always meant to be personal, not for spouting off at the top of ones lungs to get a few converts or such or condemn people, for God is not a God of fear, at least I don' t feel so.

look, i have private stuff ive never told you guys or wil not. i just tell
you of some of the stuff i went through to increase your faith. you all are being
called into the church.

netchicken TC, christ did found an institution. I have tons of passages that
he did do so.

miracles have happened to members of the church where people could heal, have stigmatas, cure, raise the dead.

the church is the only church with an unpresedented amount of miracles from its beggining until now.

heres a passage

1 Timothy 3 14 please focus on the qoutes.

"" But if i terry along, that thou mayest know
how to behave thyself in the (house) of god, which is the
(church) of the living god, the (pillar) and foundation) of (truth).

"great is the mystery of its devotion"

But i dont even need these qoutes to prove to me what i already know to be true. Ive been led to this church
through events and miracles. So i cannot fall from it or denounce it, ever.


Also protestantism started in the 1500s by fall aways by the church. Some did not agree with a doctrine and spread horrible
falsehoods about the church attacking it at will (its doctrines)

God founded one church.

if protestaantism is correct than whos interpretation is right?

who seddles who right and wrong?

cant you twist any doctrine in any protestant church?

isnt this why we have 2000 different protestant denominations?


Go watch the protestant channel on tv, and watch the catholic channel.

You can tell a difference in grace.

protestants preachers dress in suits while preaching, they heal on tv for money.

catholics wear robes while preaching, a sign of true worship, they all look alike, meaning the preachers. they all worship
as humble men.

protestant churches rant and have fun events at church, while catholic church is "boring".

Its not to have fun but to worship.

It is the only church whether you or i think so.

Just watch the channels and see the difference. the protestants will pay dearly for healing actors
for money.

there is literally a grace difference.

peace.

Hello truth

I would like to just add my thoughts to some of what you just said. Jesus did not form a church as in building when he was here on earth. The times when Jesus mentioned the word church he was talking about the people of the church.

Do you remember when Jesus said to peter that he was the Rock, and upon this Rock Jesus will build his church. It was also here that Jesus was talking about people and not an actual building.

I go to church several times a week, it is what we should do because we all need to have fellowship and it is good to come together as the body of christ to worship him. But God is not really interested in bricks and mortar. God said that he does not dwell in temples made with hands. He dwells in our hearts. What is more important to god? Is it the people of the church or the church itself?.

I would like to say more but I have to go right now.

Truth you are wrong .. full stop..

Basically you are saying that the only church is the catholic church... using that argument the only people who are followers of Christ are catholics .. and the only people who will go to heaven are catholics because they are in the 'church'.

Therefore we, who are not catholic will not go to heaven....

Utter nonsence...

Protestantism arose because the catholic church was a corrupt unjust legalistic terrorising entity. People rose up AGAINST the church .

It was led by popes who were greedy power mongers and who'se priests tended to exploit the poor.

It is/was a belief structure where syncretism ... the addition of pagan elements .. reached its climax with the pagan elements of mary worship and the transmutation of the host. ... and where people were forbidden until even the 1950's to read the bible, where in the middle ages people had to pay money to go to heaven...

That is why protestantism arose .. as a PROTEST against injustice....


[Edited on 5-11-2002 by Netchicken]

Hmm and Catholic priests, dressed in their "honorable" worshipful robes, STILL bury their hotdogs in little boy's buns.

Sincerely,
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I think where people like Truth have been misguided is that they expound too much on the *details* of the dogma that they lose sight of the general tenents that the church tries (although not very diligently) to teach.

By *quoting* scriptures constantly, he seeks to lose himself in the details of what mankind has wrought rather than focusing on the *spirit* of the teachings themselves. It has always been the ones in positions in power that seek to confuse & befuddle the masses with nonsensical details that have caused the atrocities that they were responsible for. The real truth is in the *spirit* of the words, not the words themselves or the people who speak them.

Anything beyond that "spirit" is nothing more than manmade construction seeking to control the hearts & minds of other men.

Sticking to the scriptures is a good thing. Using the wrong verse for the situation can be catastrophic. Knowing the words and the Author should prevent that.

Granted, the words should be used merely to make a point, not to make them the point in & of themselves.

We're a species that relies on words for the vast majority of communication (although there are non-lingual methods of *suplimenting* our languages) so the words *are* important. The internet is pretty much limited to *written* words (not counting the relative few who have video & speech equipment attached), so the words themselves are the most important way we have to communicate.

Still, it's a rather limited way to convey the *spirit* of a message, because we can't rely on voice-inflection & body language to gauge what another person really *means* with his words.

And yet, that's what religion is *supposed* to be all about...The *spirit* of the words & the empathy from good communication.

What the Fundies' basic problem is that they use only a *limited* set of words & language to portray the whole truth, when they really only look at a *part* of the whole to begin with...And doggedly refuse to look at any more than what they already have.


[Edited on 6-11-2002 by MidnightDStroyer]

Christ did found aa church.

let me give you some qoutes.

First netchicken let me say that you judge a church by its heretics? Do you notice the saints
in the church who worked miracels? You dont even believe me when i said miracles led me into the church. literal
miracles.

protestaantism started when martin luther did not agree with a doctrine and got excommunicated. they explained the doctrines to him and he spread falsehood about them.

like the passage says..

" The house of god which is the church of god, the pillar and foundation of truth ""

So which protestant church is the pillar and foundation of truth?

Do they all believe the same doctrines??

My god chicken, i give you my life story and how god leads me here, and you are just like the rest of them calling it falsehood
and not believing in me.

you know miracles chicken. you write them all the time, and yet you do not believe me?


These passages ill give you are definite.

please ckicken just read these and think. i dont know what else i can do since you dont believe in
how i got here.

Malachi 1:11

"" from the rising of the sun, even to the going down, my name
is great among the nations, and in all places are offered to my name
the *clean* oblation, a pure offering, for great is my name among the nations ""

he was prophecying christ net chicken. how can you not see this?

what sacrafice is offered to his name thats clean????


Also we do not worship mary. she is bleesed among women and pray to her to pray for us. The more prayers is better for your soul. this is in
the bible. I wont even get into that worship mary nonsense. Our church teaches no such thing.


After giving the body and blood.

Corinthians 11:26 focus on the qoutes.

"" For as often as you eat this (bread), and drink the (cup), you
((proclaim)) the death of the lord until he comes ""

How can you proclaim the death of the lord by eating bread and drinking the cup?

By communion.

proclaim means renewal of sacrafice. I just dont understand how you cannot understand this, really.


Corinthians 11:27

"" Therefore who ever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the ((Lord)) ""

stop right there. how can we eat and drink the cup of the lord??

communion.

again i dont see how you do not understand this.

these passages are literal.

"" Whoever eaat the bread and drinks the cup of the lord unworthily will have to
(answer) for the (body) and (blood) of the lord ""

stop again.

How can one come under punishment for eating the bread and cup of the lord???

unless, its communion?


"" For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks
((judgemeent)) upon himself ""

In the church we have a thing that you (must) go to confession before recieving the communion, its a doctrine.

is that not what the passage says?


Now do protestants have the right to interpret 2000 different beliefs??

2Peter 1:20

"' Know this first of all that no prophecy is matter of personal
interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will but through men who
spoke under the spirit of God ""

The one catholic church, the hierarchy has one belief and one interpretation.


! Corinthians 14:19

"" But ((in)) the ((church)) i would rather speak five words with my mind, so
as to instruct others also, then ten thousand words in a tounge ""

he refers to a literal place of worship.


! Corinthians 14

"" But if there is no interpreter, the person should keep silent
in ((church)) and spea to himself and to god ""

he refers to aa literal place of worship.

"" As in all ((churches)) of the holy ones, women should keep silent
in the ((churches)), for they are not allowed to speak ""

again he refers to a literal place of worship.


"" For it is improper for a women to speak in the church ""

meaning they cannot become preist.



Also god gave the apostles the power to

1. Forgive sins " whoever sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them, and
whoevers sins you bound they shall be bound to them ""

How can one bound a sin if he does not hold a special honor like a preist??

Dont you ever ask yourself these questions?


2. Peter was given the keys to the kingdom of heaven.

are not the keys the bible??

Yet he has different keys, he created the sacraments.

3. they had the power to give sacrafice.

after giving the body and blood he said ....

"" Do this in memory of me ""

Do what??


Im tellling you guys the truth. i gave you my story, i dont know what else i can do for you. literally.

pray is all.

The saaints bore the proof of the church who cured, healed, raised the dead, got mrtyred
the first 1500 years by pagans, had stigmatas, had the wounds of christ, had visions, built orginizations
for christ, many more miracles i didnt mention.

yet we always come back to the hierarchy?

the saints never get mentioned and the unpresedented amount of miracles including fatima, only
the heretics get mentioned.

yet didnt the hierarchy of the old law have heretics at the time of jesus??

will you judge the old law because of those, but you judge the new church because of those??

believe what you will, but "some" of you please realize what im saying, this is gods
wake up call.

peace and love.

read that reply over. and put aside your personaal hate for the hierarchy please.

netchicken. i do not think all non catholics are doomed. that is gods descisison. if he enlightens you tough
do not turn your back to his revelation.

Also for the record. i use bible passages because some on here are sola scripture and only
hold the bible as the only way for salvation and teaching.

peace.

Truth I do not doubt your experices, certianly God lead you into faith in him. He HAD to ther eis not other way to get to God except through the leading of the Holy Spirit. Thats why I don't argue any more with people.

But I take issue with your theology in this case.

When I first became a christian I too thought that my church was the best, that we were the ones doing it right, that other denominations were 'less spiritual' or wrong, or whatever. They just didn't measure up.

As I grew in the faith however I found that there are many people and many ways to express your devotion to God and love of Jesus and to be used as a follower of Jesus.

All of it comes within the wide christian denominations, people find their place in the body of Christ where they are best suited. So the arm cannot say it is better than the leg, all are part of the one body.

Now I don't want to type out all the arguments for and against your position ... I can but my fingers refuse and I doubt anone would read it... but don't be blinkered by legalism, by a single interpretaion of a few verses that makes your group into an exclusive sect.

God is bigger than your theology...

These verses have been twisted to say that the catholic church is the only way..

Mat 16:15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am ?"

Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Mat 16:17 And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Mat 16:18 "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

but the rock referred to is the rock of the truth highlighted above...

Truth, you shouldn't be bashing Protestantism when all Christianity is is a spin off of Egyptian beliefs mixed with Jewish beliefs.

And you want your proof? Go read the Book of the dead sometime, it's about 3000 years older then the bible, and says the same exact things, minus the bits of more modern history, and a saviour.

Sincerely,
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I agree with both truth and netchicken, only in certain points, but that is just the way life is one big opinion.

Truth, Christ organized the twelve apostles and then an organization to spread His Gospel, hence why He gave some prophets, apostles, pastors, teachers, priests, etc. to spread His message across the Eastern World. That organization was kupoot, when Christ ascended into "heaven" and the Apostles were martyered. The only people left to run the affairs of the church were the already greedy, corrupt Bishops(that the Apostles had been repirmanding for years). Understand that the Apostles had an authority to run the affairs of the Church that the Bishops did not have. They only claimed to have it, and then based there ideology of authority on Peter. That Peter was the "rock" of the Church, and therefore the Bishops(ordained under him to be Bishops, not Apostles) thought that they could use this to direct the affairs of the cracked church. It's like a mirror. When you drop a mirror it cracks into different fragments. Well, Mister Constantine thought he would try his hand and gave full leeway for the many versions of the Church and United these cracked pieces into a unified Church, The Roman Apostolic Catholic Church, and claimed himself (an Apollo worshipper) as the Pope. This church has been notorious throughout the ages for death, theft, encouraging sinful practices, etc. all justifying in the name of Christ(talk about blasphemous) And let's not even get into the "pray to Mary" doctrine, show me where Christ got on His knees and prayed to Mary! He prayed to the Father, His Father, I mean how much more clearer does the scripture have to be?
Stop quoting the Bible to defend yourself because you can't. It's a ludicrious thing to try to defend... what? Corruption, sin, death, destruction, "by there fruits ye shall know them" Don't even try to cover that up with, spiritual miracles, pullease.

Satan has the same power to do miracles that God does, he has the same ability to give visions and dreams even of Christ, because he is a deceiver, a liar, he mingles Truth with Scripture. Not all the Truth is in the Bible. Hence, when Christ said "Blessed art thou Simon, for flesh and blood have not revealed this to thee. But my Father which is in Heaven." This is the ROCK, personal enlightenment or revelation as I call it from God. God still talks to people, yes. But you need to be careful because like I said Satan has the same powers as God does, except for a few things which he can't do.
He can't create things, he can' t touch your heart like the Holy Ghost, and he does not have a body of flesh and bone, he is just a spirit so he is not tangible. (I may have missed a few someone help me out)
Now he can get some of his followers to possess a body, but it's not the same, he failed in his first estate, and will never have any more than what he is. But he can sure deceive people into a security of idealogies and mingled truths to "help" you think that you are okay and All is well in Zion.

Protestantism, is just that, rebellion or protest to the tyrant. No matter what your opinion may be the FACT is that the Catholic church is up to it's knees in poopoo with all the terrible things that has been done by them. And their false doctrines of "salvation". Sure there are plenty of good people within doing all they can to be good Catholics, but they are being mislead, and ignorance does not save a person(not trying to offend anyone, but gee whiz this is just tiring to see this ALL the time on some ATS threads. This whole debate about Catholicism).
But we could go on and on about this debacle.
Protestantism is an effort to put together a huge cracked mirror, and for that reason there are so many agree to disagreements within it. Why are they not united? Why are they not claiming the same interpretation of Scripture? Where is there authority to preach? From the Bible? I don't think so, the apostles didn't have a Bible, they had only the teachings of Christ that they had heard. They may have written them down, I don't know. But they were ordained to preach the Gospel and run the affairs of the Early Organization, Protestants did not get that authority from anyone.
But I do believe in like Netchicken said in divine revelation, that God does speak to us even in these last days before the coming of the resurrected Savior, but I try to keep an open mind to what people say and think. I try though I am not very good at it sometimes.
But we just can't disregard the facts, just because.

I felt this an obvious title. It is far too easy, when given some authority, to fall into the trap of one's own desires or wants. Regardless of how hard a person tries to follow what they preach, it is impossible to do so if those central values or fundamental values are not really in the persons' heart. It is recorded that Christ stated numerous times that a person can be judged by the fruit that they bear. The most rotten of fruit must truly be contention, seeing as how contention leads to violence and hate. These values degrade the core values that were the center of Christs teachings. Therefore...If you are a true Christian and your leaders (past or present) have freely professed any form of contention towards others, you have unwittingly fallen subject to the famous "Blind leading the blind" category.
How many religions have professed war or hatred without any true understanding of those they profess against?
POSITIVE EXAMPLE: Moses and the destruction of the idolitrous nations that had already vowed their destruction.
BAD EXAMPLE: The early Catholic church and the crusades. There's something about the raping, plundering, piliging, burning, and canibalization of your FELLOW BELIEVERS that just does not add up to the teachings of Christ. Or was that one of the parts of the bible that they later removed? I have trouble sometimes figuring out what is real or what the catholic church just decided to put in there to prove their point. But that can't really be helped since they were the origional compilers and editors of the bible in the first place.

Originally posted by Truthi do not think all non catholics are doomed.

No, that's the decision of *the catholics*; That's the church that want's to convert *everyone* & have already tried to do so by the sword & torture. If God knows the future of all of us, why didn't He mention the catholics by name when putting stamp of approval on a church?
The present Catholic Church came from the Roman Catholic Church...And yet wasn't it the Romans who *changed* a lot of the original scriptures to their own ends? The Romans who were the ones who drove the nails through Christ's wrists?
So how can you say that the Catholics are "the one & only way"?

You're only looking at individual pieces when you should be looking at the whole.

Originally posted by Netchicken God is bigger than your theology...

This is the "whole" that you should be looking at. God is bigger than theology, bigger than the whole human race & even bigger than the universe...There is no *single* religion that holds *all* of the answers, just as there's no *single* religion that is *all* falsehood. You continue to look at only a few pieces of the puzzle & believe that it's the whole picture.

Originally posted by FreeMason Truth, you shouldn't be bashing Protestantism when all Christianity is is a spin off of Egyptian beliefs mixed with Jewish beliefs.

Not only that but Greek & Roman insertions, as the different cultures (such as Celtic & Norse) that *they* borrowed a few ideas from too.

You can't use the Bible (any version of it) to defend the Catholics or any other splinter of religion...Because *they're the ones who've been altering & editing it for their own purposes all along*!

my god, the words are invisible??

first let me clear this up.

blabla, No satan cannot give dreams or miracles.

read your bible very closely. he can only do whats in nature. he cannot
cure, heal, creat miracles.

he creats wonders not miracles, this is 100%percent true.

also the miracles in the church have far outwieghed the bad heretics acts.

by far. these miracles have had a non stop interuption.

they are the fruits.

net chicken. you said it your self.

"" for flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my father in heaven ""

flesha and blood did not reveal and lead me into the church, but through literal miracles
god did.

Im not joking, you cant understand this because i cant explain on computer.


netchicken you cannot refute those passages. they all indicate an actula place of worship. read them close.

im "not" trying to prove my denomination by passages. Im stating that he created an actual church. its in the passages.

he refers to being "in" the church with other people many times.

You cannot be inside of a human if they are the church.


My god, you all keep saying im a fundametalist.

i am NOT, i know this is true, i hated religion two years ago.

Literal miracles and events led me here. I cant say no more about this. If you choose not to believe im being sincere then
so be it but i am telling you the 100% dead honest truth.

Bla bla, satan cannot give you dreams. Even the bible says that in the last day,
men shal dream dreams.

god sends dreams to people sometimes.

I have dreamt of christ in a hallway of blood that came up to the knees. everybody was in white robe
walking through the thick blood.

I will probably be martyreds for defending this truth. It will be an honor, butill be sacred.

I cannot reject this.

peace.