Soldiers forced into extra duty in Iraq

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Army has forced about 50,000 soldiers to continue serving after their voluntary stints ended under a policy called "stop-loss," but while some dispute its fairness, court challenges have fallen flat.

The policy applies to soldiers in units due to deploy for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. The Army said stop-loss is vital to maintain units that are cohesive and ready to fight. But some experts said it shows how badly the Army is stretched and could further complicate efforts to attract new recruits.

"As the war in Iraq drags on, the Army is accumulating a collection of problems that cumulatively could call into question the viability of an all-volunteer force," said defense analyst Loren Thompson of the Lexington Institute think tank.

Full Story: news.yahoo.com...

Being forced to stay on after the length of time you signed up to fight?
Hang on, that's not very voluntary is it?

Is that the feint sound of dictatorship ringing in my ears?

Mod Edit: New External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 29/1/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Yes, this is terrible and has been happening for at least 2 years now in this War on Terror. This is not new. Too bad more people don't know about it.

Stop Loss in Jan 2004

WASHINGTON — The Army will announce as early as Tuesday new orders that will forbid thousands of soldiers from leaving the service after they return this year from Iraq, Afghanistan and other fronts in the war against terrorism, defense officials said Monday.

The "stop loss" orders mean personnel who could otherwise leave the military when their volunteer commitments expire will be forced to remain to the end of their overseas deployments and up to another 90 days after they come home. "Stop movement" orders also bar soldiers from moving to new assignments during the restricted period. The orders do not extend any unit's stay overseas.

Hey! It's not the draft!

And it is voluntary, because once you sign up (voluntarily), you belong to the military. You sign up to be subject to the stop-loss program. Of course, there's no mention of it, but it's there.

And yes, that is the sound of dictatorship you hear. Not necessarily because of the stop loss program, but because of all those other tingling sounds you've been hearing over the past few years...

Thanks for that link. I'd never heard of it before. You're right when you say more people should be aware.

Originally posted by Yossarian
Thanks for that link. I'd never heard of it before. You're right when you say more people should be aware.

Because its such a revalation. Sheesh.....

Do you really think people dont know you become government property when you sign up? What do either of you actually know about the US military anyway?

[edit on 29-1-2006 by Dronetek]

What do you know about anything? Government doesnt own us....what thehell is wrong with you?

What do you know about anything? Government doesnt own us....what thehell is wrong with you?

I think he knows a lot more then you, but that's not for me to say.
Now, when you sign up for the military you agree to a specific contract, a contract that is subject to the stop loss orders. Its nothing new, it just that people who have never hear of it make it out to be a big deal, or make it seem like its illegal.

ATTENTION
I'd like to remind everyone to discuss the topic of this thread and not each other.
We need to show respect for each other when posting.

Thank you.

Stop loss is not something new the army is trying to pull to have more troops. Stop loss was put into place so when a unit gets called to go into combat they don't have soldiers they have trained which are important to the unit leaving. If I work with you and trained with you everyday, then I want to go to combat with you because I know what you can do.

But, how can that be? How is that Possible? I thought that the Army does NOT have any Problems with Numbers of Troops they need. I thought they are meeting their Needs for new Recruits and that the War in Iraq is actually a Mission Accomplished? Why should they Force 50.000 of their Soldiers (which is not a Small Number) into Extra Duty?

Could it be, that US Armed Forces are Over Streched and can not meet the Pentagon's Plans? Already? I mean, what about Syria, Iran, North Korea - those are Rouge States of the Axis of Evil, which the Land of the Free must FIGHT!

Every Empire come to the Breaking Point of its Armed Forces - when it gets too Greedy and too Streched over the World map. That is usually at the Peak of its Global Dominance - and from then on, the Slow Decay begins...

Its not like this is anything new the Stop loss program was last used in Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm in 1990.

Well, it's all new to me. I know very little about the U.S. military.

Being in the military right now, I will put in my .02.

When you sign up, it specifically states that whether you are joining for 4 years or 6, you have to serve for 8. This means the remainder of your contract you are on standby. You can be held from discharge when your enlistment ends until that 8 year period, or if you have already gotten out, you can be called back to duty. I signed up for six, and when I get out, I have to be ready to be called back for two years.

What they are doing is totally legal, as you signed your name right under where it states this.

I hope this clears up any questions.

Peace.

Thanks Chicken, where are you right now?

I am stationed in Germany.

I guess the Stop Loss program is not the same for different services at a given time. I think most of the Stop Loss in effect now is for infantry, vehicle operators, and the like. About 3 years ago when I joined, there was a Stop Loss in effect for my career field (Air Force Communications (Internet, Telephones, Satellite)). Our SRB (selective re-enlistment bonus) was actually $90,000 for signing up for another 6 years!! The Air Force has done a complete 180 degrees when it came to that.

Last year people had an option through the Force Shaping program, which was designed to cut thousands of Air Force troops. About half of the people in my shop did this alone!! They said, "F this place, I'm out."

www.airforcetimes.com...

www.airforcetimes.com...

This year alone they want to cut 40,000 troops. This is done because of "budget cuts", and they want to save money. I think that their money is just being diverted elsewhere.... They cut a lot of numbers in our force, but they still expect us to do the same amount of work. I don't want to go on a rant, but sometimes it does get pretty frustrating.


Peace.

Chicken is right on the money. No matter how long you agree to serve on "active" duty, your contract is for 8 years of non-negotiable service.

There are many combinations of contracts enlistment terms, involving active duty, active reserve duty, and inactive reserves. As a member of the inactive reserves (which is sometimes called the "ready reserves"), you are required to stay in shape, maintain servicable uniforms, keep the military appraised of your residence, and stay out of trouble.

It is a true statement that recruiters probably do not do a good job of informing new recruits as to their requirements regarding the inactive reserves. Historically, this has never been very relevant, as the ready reserves had not been used in big numbers since Vietnam. But, during the 1st Gulf War, suddenly some folks were getting a very unpleasant surprise.

When I joined the service, circa 1983, the contracts were only for enlistments in combinations of 6 years, versus 8. Since I did a 4 year enlistment, combined with 2 one-year extensions at the covenience of the government, when I got out in 1989...I was truely out for good. Which was a good feeling.

further clarification on stop loss...
stop loss is put into effect once a unit, any unit, gets its 'warning order'... official statement from DoD saying that a unit will be mobilized for deployment or training for deployment, typical 1 week to 3 months notice. stop loss keeps any 'contract' that may expire, from expiring, unless approval for exceptions is approved.....

nice how a soldier becomes a 'contract'......

Could it be, that US Armed Forces are Over Streched and can not meet the Pentagon's Plans? Already? I mean, what about Syria, Iran, North Korea - those are Rouge States of the Axis of Evil, which the Land of the Free must FIGHT!

Every Empire come to the Breaking Point of its Armed Forces - when it gets too Greedy and too Streched over the World map. That is usually at the Peak of its Global Dominance - and from then on, the Slow Decay begins...

The decay could be even faster, when they start another war, do draft and the oil stop selling for the $$$ to stop America taxing the whole world...
In short - the bet for us and worsest for them they can do is to hit Iran - then it all start falling down pretty quicky.

Four more wars!

Originally posted by Yossarian
Being forced to stay on after the length of time you signed up to fight?
Hang on, that's not very voluntary is it? Is that the feint sound of dictatorship ringing in my ears?

When you sign up for the military, you sign a contract, the terms of the contract is that your stay can be extended. The military is not a 'regular job', its the military of a people, you don't get to just say 'sorry, my time is up' and then walk out in the middle of a congressionally declared war. Not only does it contain a time provision of 'active duty' and 'available for re-activation' afterwards, but they can extend it beyond any time set forth in the contract. Thats because a war isn't determined by a contract and the needs of the military in a war and the entire idea behind 'service' trumps any contract.

nice how a soldier becomes a 'contract'......

Its the public and the soldiery that want it to be on contract. Otherwise you'd just step up for the military and leave when they determine that you've done your service.

Originally posted by Chicken on a Stick
I am stationed in Germany.

Remember Grafenwoehr and Hohenfels? I was stationed in Germany also, 3/11 ACR Blackhorse Regiment. What you said is true and you are property of the US military until that standby period ends.

If soldiers don't like it, they should not have signed on in the first place.


Maximu§

Sorry but I haven't heard of either of those. I am AF stationed at Ramstein. It is near the city of Kaiserslautern.