It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Fate or Free Will...or Both???

page: 1
0

log in

join
share:
56

posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 09:39 PM
link   
I am starting this thread to see what everyone thinks about
Fate, Free Will...OR Both???
Fate:


the power supposed to fix beforehand and control everything that happens. Fate is thought by some to be beyond one’s control.
World Book Dictionary

Do you think your entire life is already planned, no matter what you do, it will not change what will happen?
Or are you in complete control of what happens?
OR...Can your free will determine your fate?

I think it might be both, but im still not sure, think about this example:
If the fate of everyone on earth is to be killed in 2012, but someone decides to go to nuclear war in 2006 and kills everyone, is it still fate? or would that turn out to be the fate of everyone else but that someone? turning out to be their free will determining our fate.
that raises another question, is fate affected by time?

I've only recently been thinking about this, there's alot of "what ifs" that keep me thinking. What do you think?




posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 10:43 PM
link   
We are just rocks that with a conscious thrown through the air with only the "idea" that we can control our own fate.......... Or is that just some of us?



posted on Jan, 29 2006 @ 02:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by 56
Do you think your entire life is already planned, no matter what you do, it will not change what will happen?
Or are you in complete control of what happens?
OR...Can your free will determine your fate?



There is no solid answer for the question of Fate vs. Free will.

Jung wrote:

The psychological rule says that when an inner situation is not made conscious, it happens outside, as fate. That is to say, when the individual remains undivided and does not become conscious of his inner contradictions, the world must perforce act out the conflict and be torn into opposite halves.


Its really a matter of how well you are able to be self-sufficient, in my opinion.
If you account the daily occurences and coincidences as being outside of your influence then fate is a more appropriate answer. If you are self-sufficient and deem yourself responsible for the happenings and choices, eventually leading to consequences of your devising, then free will is an appropriate answer.

We're not in a capacity to answer this question of free will vs. fate because we seem to be stuck in a backwards logical trap of paradoxes.



posted on Jan, 29 2006 @ 03:04 PM
link   
I never got why this question posed so much of a problem to everyone. Why can't it be both? Why does the fact that everything is set prevent us from having free will?

If I knew for an absolute fact that you were going to piss within the next hour, would that stop you from going or not going?

It's like we had complete control over which choice to make at every decision, but the choice we would make was already known to an outsider.

[edit on 29-1-2006 by babloyi]



posted on Jan, 29 2006 @ 03:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by babloyi

If I knew for an absolute fact that you were going to piss within the next hour, would that stop you from going or not going?

[edit on 29-1-2006 by babloyi]


It would stop you from not going if you havent pissed in the last 59 minutes cuz you have one minute to do so.

If you dont go within the hour then GOD would be a liar wont he? So how could free will be consistent with fate?



posted on Jan, 30 2006 @ 11:03 AM
link   
It's our fate to die. Every decision we make is based on a number of factors that are pre-programmed into our psyche by our DNA. God created DNA, God knows of all the factors, therefore surely he knows what we're going to do and when. In 100 years time, we'll all be dead, our lives are inconsequential unless we create something for others. God understands our innermost desires and feelings and he knows what we are going to do before we do it. It's like programming a computer, you know what it can do and what it feeds on, so you are able to anticipate its reactions.

Now, God is the programmer so to speak and we are his creation. He knows our every move and he can switch us off when we become problematic, in fact he can program us whenever he pleases. We are his to appreciate.



posted on Jan, 30 2006 @ 11:30 AM
link   
Do you not find a problem with that Simon_the_byron? You beleive our every action is pre-programmed and we are merely chess-pieces in some sort of divine game?



posted on Jan, 30 2006 @ 04:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by Simon_the_byron
It's our fate to die. Every decision we make is based on a number of factors that are pre-programmed into our psyche by our DNA. God created DNA, God knows of all the factors, therefore surely he knows what we're going to do and when. In 100 years time, we'll all be dead, our lives are inconsequential unless we create something for others. God understands our innermost desires and feelings and he knows what we are going to do before we do it. It's like programming a computer, you know what it can do and what it feeds on, so you are able to anticipate its reactions.

Now, God is the programmer so to speak and we are his creation. He knows our every move and he can switch us off when we become problematic, in fact he can program us whenever he pleases. We are his to appreciate.



I'm glad atleast you're consistent in implying that free will is worth a rats azz as opposed to many who continuosly fall into the trap(free will coexisting with fate) and never realize it!

So god preprogrammed all the serial killers and rapists too? And pray tell me what purpose do they serve?
We shouldnt punish anyone in this world cuz they're just acting out god's program. If you say otherwise then you have some serious rethinking to do.


[edit on 30-1-2006 by I_s_i_s]



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 06:23 AM
link   
I don't see why it's not possible. It comes down to two statements:

1) We have the free will to make whichever choice we want at every decision of our lives.

2) The choice we make is known before-hand by something I refer to as God.

We are in complete control of our choices, but God knows which one we'll choose. It might seem contradictory at first, but I don't believe it is. If we choose A out of A and B, it will be known from beforehand that we would have chosen A. If instead, at the last minute we choose B, that is the choice that would have been known from beforehand.

Considering that my concept of God is something that is outside the bounds of time, it would mean that ALL choices of EVERYONE would be known at all instances. We, on the other hand, live within the confines of time, and our choices are made relative to it.



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 11:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by 56
Do you think your entire life is already planned, no matter what you do, it will not change what will happen?


Whether there is fate, or free will, depends entirely on how you define these things. From my perspective more succinct questions would be "do our brains follow the same fundamental patterns of behavior we see with all other matter in the universe?", and "are our brains the source of consciousness?"

Neoroscience and cognitive science are saying "yes", on both counts.



posted on Feb, 1 2006 @ 03:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by LostSailor
We are just rocks that with a conscious thrown through the air with only the "idea" that we can control our own fate.......... Or is that just some of us?


I gave some thought to this when I recently read I Am Charlotte Simmons. What interests me is your question, "Or is that just some of us?". Could you explain a little further?

We may make bad choices when we exercise our "free will" rights. Then we will have to face the consequences with ever more limiting "free will" choices.

If all have "free will", and I believe we do, then when you exercise your "free will" that may infringe upon my "free will".

Example...You have decided to rob me. My "free will" is now used as to how I will react to your robbing me. I may "turn the other cheek" and say, "Welcome Brother, how else may I help you?" Or, I may become violent and beat you within an inch of your life.

As to "Man, the Conscious Little Rock", again, we don't have much say over natural disasters and illness/disease. Our "free will" would be used in how we prepare for or handle these events.

Just my 2 cents....



posted on Feb, 1 2006 @ 04:11 AM
link   

Originally posted by babloyi

It's like we had complete control over which choice to make at every decision, but the choice we would make was already known to an outsider.


This is where I believe God comes into the picture as "an outsider". He is omniscient. (I hope I have chosen the correct word here) Because He is all knowing He has seen all the "free will" choices we have made in our lives. It is like watching a video. He knows how we turned out in the end.

I also believe in prayer. Prayer gives me guidance as to my "free will" choices and also I do not discount miracles.



posted on Feb, 1 2006 @ 04:22 AM
link   
i believe neither you act or react to what ever happens to you at that time and the circumstances that these thing happen under can not be known your actions are not free will as your response might be forced




top topics



 
0

log in

join