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Documents Show Army Seized Wives As Tactic

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posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 07:19 AM
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Speaking of "seizing" wives as bait for their husbands... have any of them been harmed? How about threatened?

Anybody know where Jill Carroll is these days, speaking of kidnapping innocent women? Because her kidnappers threatened to murder her if their demands aren't met.

So, please explain how it is that we are as bad as they are again?

[edit on 28-1-2006 by jsobecky]




posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 08:15 AM
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Hey - do the SOF conduct these Actions?

Or can the Ordinary Army do that?

Anyway, interesting Article I must say.

So, when Insurgents Kidnap People, that is Terrorism - when US Army or Special Forces do it, that is called COUNTER-Terrorism. Hmmm, I fail to see the Logic in this. Aren't these two actions the SAME?

What happens to these Women when they are Kidnapped?

Here is an interesting Article:


Uruknet.info

And ask yourselves this: Would we have heard about these stories had Jill Carroll not been kidnapped? I by no means condone her kidnapping. In fact, I reiterate that it is morally reprehensible, ideologically warped, and a crime against an innocent.

But why did it take the kidnapping of a young and pretty American to lift the lid on the dozens of kidnappings of Iraqi women and girls by US soldiers in the past 2 plus years?

"The Taguba report confirms that some women were indeed raped by American G.I.'s. There is one photo of an American soldier having sex with an Iraqi woman. And there is the by now infamous story of how American soldiers harnessed a 70-year-old woman and rode her around, calling her a donkey."

And more: Although the Taguba report makes specific reference to the abuse of female Iraqi prisoners, the Bush administration has refused to release photos of Iraqi women forced at gunpoint to bare their breasts—no doubt to spare Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld further embarrassment.

Apparently EVERYTHING goes when the Forces of Good Fight the Forces of Evil; Kidnap, Torture, Abuse, Murder, Humiliation, Degradation - You name it!

Well as long as the Evil Terrorists are OFF the Streets and Freedom and Democracy is Protected.

I wonder if we will ever see those Photos of Rape and Abuse of Iraqi Women, or is it Enough to watch smiling kids running around and pose to the Camera of the US Army Propaganda Officer to make some Great Photos for the American Public for Further Approvment of Bush Politics in Middle East.

Pax Americana.



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 09:14 AM
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Quote:
"Yeah right that's why Curtis LeMay did what he did, because he was “too flipping stupid to win playing fair” whatever the hell “playing fair” means. We won WWII because we used tactics that were not popular but were so vital to us wining over the Japanese, there is no such thing as a “fair” war, the sooner we learn that the easier we will make it for ourselves"

Response:
Since my grandfather Holloway, my cousin (George Marshall) and Curtis LeMay were good friends I can honestly say that Curtis never tried to kidnap anyones wife or mother. He did bomb anything and everything to hell but it was an all out war and the president was a man of intelligence unlike today. There was a real threat of invasion at that time, unlike today as well the world was at war unlike today.

We won WWII because we used scorched earth theory and killed anything that moved and that was after a formal declaration of war. Today our forces are spread far and thin thinks to a flipping stupid secretary of defense whom my grandfather said was a puss, idiot and a loser. Your rants have no logical backing.. Give it up. My mom's family, Holloway sir name, have fought in every war this country has ever fought, and continue to do so today. They do not sink to the levels you would, they have integrity and win by beating the enemy at his own game.. Perhaps that's why we didn't win Korea, Vietnam and will not win this skirmish either, we can't beat the enemy at his own game, we no longer posses the intelligent leadership to do so. Your rants pretty much prove the point.
[edit on 28-1-2006 by GrndLkNatv]

[edit on 28-1-2006 by GrndLkNatv]



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah
Hey - do the SOF conduct these Actions?

Or can the Ordinary Army do that?

Anyway, interesting Article I must say.

So, when Insurgents Kidnap People, that is Terrorism - when US Army or Special Forces do it, that is called COUNTER-Terrorism. Hmmm, I fail to see the Logic in this. Aren't these two actions the SAME?
.


WE DO NOT CUT THEIR HEADS OFF! How in the world could you come to the conclusion that they are the same thing, unless you are a complete idiot? You seem to be selectivly ignoring the facts that would make your argument ridiculous.

THEM: Kidnap and then execute in the most brutal way possible

US: Kidnap and then relaese unharmed

YOU DONT SEE THE DIFFERENCE?????



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 09:30 AM
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but this war is illegal, as i understand it, and therefore, anything we do is automatically illegal. Kidnapping the wives of "suspected" insurgents only exacerbates the matter

i'm only 24, so i missed Vietnam, but these people (the government, which consists of the very same people) have again proven themselves to be absolutely barbaric.



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 09:39 AM
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Quote:
"but this war is illegal, as i understand it, and therefore, anything we do is automatically illegal. Kidnapping the wives of "suspected" insurgents only exacerbates the matter

i'm only 24, so i missed Vietnam, but these people (the government, which consists of the very same people) have again proven themselves to be absolutely barbaric."

You hit it on the nose.... This administration and the hippie generation have only proven one thing since they have been in power; they are completely inept. The WWI and WWII generations in this country created wealth by building and progress itself. The hippie generation has destroyed any and all of the wealth the WWI and WWII generation has built; all for their unbridled greed and stupidity. Proof of my point is they are now called the Enron generation, unable to build wealth and prosperity, only able to take it from others. In my book, complete losers.


[edit on 28-1-2006 by GrndLkNatv]



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 10:29 AM
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if i am understanding alot of the replies...the mantra would be..'anything is ok in war because war is hell, the enemy does bad things so we will too because war is hell'
at one time i thought america was above of the actions being described here and at the 'naked prisoner jail'......boy was i wrong. AMERIKA has turned into to nothing but a terrorist who justifies his actions as right because he is the biggest and baddest on the block and nobody will/can tell him different.



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 10:39 AM
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I cant believe there is actually debate on whether we can kidnap the wives of our enemies as bait. You think they are being treated good? Ha!

Our own police torture interrogation suspects. I have a friend who was beaten and tasered by the police in an interrogation. What for? Marijuana possesion! Torture people cuz of that?

The US government has already said torture is good, and Alberto Gonzales even said in a press conference a couple of weeks ago ''torture is a neccesary tool in fighting terrorism.'' He claims that when under torture, suspects are more inclined to give answers.....what makes you think they are not torturing these women? Wouldnt that be good for getting answers? I will tell you right now, you cant trust the confession of anyone whos been tortured.

This is the same mentality wed see from serial killers. We dont become terrorists to stop the terrorists!

When the terrorists kidnap and kill people....thats wrong. When the US kidnaps and tortures people, thats good.

When the ''terrorists'' supposedly attacked us on 9/11 and killed 3000 people (which has been proven an inside job), thats ''evil''. When the US bombs Afghanistan in retaliation, and kills 5000 people in one month alone, thats is ''fighting for peace and freedom.''

THEY ARE BOTH FRICKEN TERRORISM....AND ITS ABOUT TIME WE REALIZED THAT.

GEORGE BUSH/TONY BLAIR: THESE MEN ARE WANTED FOR TERRORISM! WANTED FOR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. THEM AND THEIR TERRORIST PUPPETS....

It is really getting to me....seeing this happen to our great nation. A once proud, noble people..... now just sheep being herded into the tyranny cage. Very sad indeed.

Yea, its terrorism thats the threat to America. Its not the wide open borders, that allow illegal immigrants in who take American jobs.

Its not the free trade agreement which forces American workers to compete with foreign slave labour who make 50 cents an hour...further taking away jobs (GM cut 30,000 jobs recently, I believe).

Its not the ever increasing presence of police and government in our daily lives.

Its not the corruption of a federal government, who admits to giving the richest 10% huge tax cuts, while the minimum wage hovers between 5 and 7 dollars an hour, and 35 million Americans live in poverty.

Its not the destruction of our middle and lower classes, and our whole country, thats the problem.......its the terrorists. Gimme a break.

[edit on 28-1-2006 by LetKnowledgeDrop]



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by LetKnowledgeDrop
GEORGE BUSH/TONY BLAIR: THESE MEN ARE WANTED FOR TERRORISM! WANTED FOR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. THEM AND THEIR TERRORIST PUPPETS....


Get a grip. In case you haven't noticed, the free world is under seige by Islamic extremists who have carried out senseless acts of terrorism worldwide for decades and you think Bush and Blair are terrorists? That would depend entirely on which side you're on and clearly you're on the wrong side. So, be careful. The world is not a safe place for terrorists and insurgents these days.



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 11:31 AM
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GEORGE BUSH/TONY BLAIR: THESE MEN ARE WANTED FOR TERRORISM! WANTED FOR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. THEM AND THEIR TERRORIST PUPPETS....


If you put half as much energy in to speaking out against the monsters that blow themselves up in crowded markets, I would believe you. However your lopsided viewpoint just proves that you are either being blatantly partisan or you are completely ignorant.

The fact that I don’t see the same kind of frothing at the mouth about terrorist actions just proves that people like you are our enemy as much as they are.



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Get a grip. In case you haven't noticed, the free world is under seige by Islamic extremists who have carried out senseless acts of terrorism worldwide for decades and you think Bush and Blair are terrorists? That would depend entirely on which side you're on and clearly you're on the wrong side. So, be careful. The world is not a safe place for terrorists and insurgents these days.

Oh yeah - those Filthy Islamic Extremists!

How they Invaded Korea and Vietnam and how they Killed Tens of Thousands of Innocent Civilans in South America! Those Filthy Animals!



I bet that Bush-Blair Relationship goes Further they you Imagine!, and that CARLYLE Group is More then Happy for all these Islamic Extremists around the World, which the Civilized West has to Fight.

But thats Another Story - the Story EVERYONE seems to Ignore.

Oh, and are you possibly THREATENING a member of ATS? Maybe You should be Careful too...

[edit on 28/1/06 by Souljah]



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 12:39 PM
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but this war is illegal, as i understand it, and therefore, anything we do is automatically illegal. Kidnapping the wives of "suspected" insurgents only exacerbates the matter


You hear that everybody this war is illegal because HarlemHotti says so
This war is not illegal, congress passed an AUMF to support it, end of story.


Since my grandfather Holloway, my cousin (George Marshall) and Curtis LeMay were good friends I can honestly say that Curtis never tried to kidnap anyones wife or mother. He did bomb anything and everything to hell but it was an all out war and the president was a man of intelligence unlike today. There was a real threat of invasion at that time, unlike today as well the world was at war unlike today.


So wait, this isn't an all out war? We should for some ridicules reason restrain ourselves and allow more of our troops to die? And speaking of not making sense, you think bombing everything in sight is better then kidnapping people for a short period of time

[edit on 28-1-2006 by WestPoint23]



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by HarlemHottie
...but this war is illegal, as i understand it, and therefore, anything we do is automatically illegal. Kidnapping the wives of "suspected" insurgents only exacerbates the matter

i'm only 24, so i missed Vietnam....


HarlemHottie? Is that you, Bill? Come on! 'Fess up! We know it's you. You horny scoundrel, you. 24? Come on, Bill, we're not that dumb. We know why you missed Vietnam.



[edit on 2006/1/28 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 05:47 PM
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Grady

Get a grip. In case you haven't noticed, the free world is under seige by Islamic extremists who have carried out senseless acts of terrorism worldwide for decades and you think Bush and Blair are terrorists?


Get a grip indeed. In case you haven't noticed, the greatest dangers to the free world go completely unmentioned, because everyone is so scared of the boogeyman. Al Qaeda would have to pull of a Hiroshima once a month in order to compete with the real grim reapers, diseases like diabetes, cancer, influenza, and so on, and accidents, especiallly workplace accidents, automobile accidents, malpractice accidents, and so on.

They can't compete. They simply can't. No matter how terrified you are, no matter how much you yearn for a tangible enemy, terrorists kill fewer people every year than falling rocks.


There's no logical reason to spend a trillion dollars or more fighting shadows, when there are a number of very real dangers that could be tackled with that loot.

It's foolish, plain and simple. Like the herd that stampedes over the cliff, running from thunder, Americans are not using their heads. Y'all are putting yourselves at greater risk, and ignoring the real and present dangers. And you top it all off by calling the sane folks terrorist sympathizers.




That would depend entirely on which side you're on and clearly you're on the wrong side. So, be careful. The world is not a safe place for terrorists and insurgents these days.


See?


News Flash: the world isn't safe for you either, and it never will be.

Drone


However your lopsided viewpoint just proves that you are either being blatantly partisan or you are completely ignorant.


Pot calling the kettle black much? I could take the time to dig up a bunch of your old threads to prove my point, but I don't think that will be necessary.



The fact that I don’t see the same kind of frothing at the mouth about terrorist actions just proves that people like you are our enemy as much as they are.




Can't you just feel the brotherly love? Nobody condones terrorism here, not that a little thing like the truth matters anymore. The whole point people are trying to make, to get through to y'all, is that terrorism is the LEAST of our worries. That's a FACT, whether you want to believe it or not.

The fact that we're using terrorist tactics to prosecute the WoT is just an added irony, like frosting on the cake. Y'all seriously need to tune your irony radars, because this concept seems to constantly escape your detection.



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
No matter how terrified you are, no matter how much you yearn for a tangible enemy, terrorists kill fewer people every year than falling rocks.


Oh, well. Thanks for putting that into perspective for me.
I feel so silly and here I thought it was unconscionable for human beings to target innocent men, women and children to further their political and religious agendas, when in fact, terror is just another unavoidable, acceptable risk of living, like disease, hurricanes, and earthquakes.

Wow! I can't tell you how much better I feel now. I've been so concerned for the lives of the innocent since 9/11 and for what? I think I'll just run over to I-40 and drop a few baseball-size rocks off the overpass and if someone gets mad, I'll just remind them of how many people die on the interstate without my help.
That'll show 'em.


[edit on 2006/1/28 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by curme
The US kidnapping innocent civilians, can we sink any lower?


They aren't innocenent if they don't turn their husbands in. That makes them an accomplice



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 07:49 PM
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Quote:
"So wait, this isn't an all out war? We should for some ridicules reason restrain ourselves and allow more of our troops to die? And speaking of not making sense, you think bombing everything in sight is better then kidnapping people for a short period of time"

Response:
does a 2 month old child who is nursing know what their father did and why? Should they suffer like an adult for the actions of another? Bombing during a declared war is different, the enemy knows we are out to kill them, here we keep telling the people of Iraq we love them and want to help them. Get it??? We lie! Last response for you.



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by LetKnowledgeDrop
GEORGE BUSH/TONY BLAIR: THESE MEN ARE WANTED FOR TERRORISM! WANTED FOR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY. THEM AND THEIR TERRORIST PUPPETS....


Get a grip. In case you haven't noticed, the free world is under seige by Islamic extremists who have carried out senseless acts of terrorism worldwide for decades and you think Bush and Blair are terrorists? That would depend entirely on which side you're on and clearly you're on the wrong side. So, be careful. The world is not a safe place for terrorists and insurgents these days.


The whole world under seige??? I dont ever recall being scared of a terrorist but Ill be quite honest Grady,some of the **** that comes out of your mouth scares me. I guess I must be a terrorist huh??? HAHA. Sounds like someone whos completely lost touch with reality



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
No matter how terrified you are, no matter how much you yearn for a tangible enemy, terrorists kill fewer people every year than falling rocks.


Oh, well. Thanks for putting that into perspective for me.
I feel so silly and here I thought it was unconscionable for human beings to target innocent men, women and children to further their political and religious agendas, when in fact, terror is just another unavoidable, acceptable risk of living, like disease, hurricanes, and earthquakes.

Wow! I can't tell you how much better I feel now. I've been so concerned for the lives of the innocent since 9/11 and for what? I think I'll just run over to I-40 and drop a few baseball-size rocks off the overpass and if someone gets mad, I'll just remind them of how many people die on the interstate without my help.
That'll show 'em.


[edit on 2006/1/28 by GradyPhilpott]


Well Grady if theyre so worried about terrorism why dont they do a better job of securing our borders????!?!?!? Is it maybe cuz theres no oil on the Mexico-USA border??? Somehow I dont think your going to respond to that



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 08:53 PM
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Bombing during a declared war is different, the enemy knows we are out to kill them,


For all purposes it is not different, this war is just as declared as any other, so I don't know why you keep persisting on making a distinction between it and WWII. Since you support the indiscriminate bombing during WWII by justifying it as “the enemy knows we are out to kill them” leads me to believe that you categories the entire Japanese population as the enemy.



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