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ATS Money & Ethics

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posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by riley
Interesting.. but which thing? There are so many extreme conspiracy theories posted that it'd be a needle in a haystack. It would explain why someone hacked into the site though.


That is a good question, the thing is that we would have to assume it was the reason, which it may not be, and as you say it's impossible to know which one anyway. It may even be several!..
Have you seen the movie 'Conspiracy Theory'? It seems strangely familiar now lol.
The best thing I think we can do is shrug off this petty attempt to cause disruption and divide and to just stick together even more and keep going the way we have been.
I think we do know one thing from all of this:-
Whatever the reasons, there are people out there that don't like us, what we stand for or what we're doing. Well to hell with them, I say we laugh in their face.. This will only make us stronger and if anything has only made us realise what we have and appreciate it more. I know I do.

[edit on 27-1-2006 by AgentSmith]




posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 11:15 AM
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I for one think this thread starter has done this just for attention, and maybe to plug his other motives.

Asfor the owners making money, good for them, i know how much work goes into running any type of internet based comunity. I have myself run a buissness from scratch and built it up to a point were i am considering expanding and opening up another branch half way accross the country. It is a very hard thing to do, the sacrafices you have to make, and all the sleepless nights that go with it. I myself almost lost everything and ended up in hospital once after turning to drink and having a anxisaty brakedown because of the ammount of debt that i was in, and i am only 21.

So i say good for them, i hope you all get stinking ritch, and get to live on a nice big boat someware, afterall you deserve it.

Also to Simon, altho it is none of my buissness, i hope the tv show is thelight at the end of the tunnle for you, as i myself have nearly lost it all. There is nothing worse the going to bed at night wondering if you will be bankrupt next week or if you will have enough money to actualy pay your employees or even feed yourself.

Good luck, and if i can help in anyway let me know, thats what i am here for.



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 11:19 AM
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Does it matter?

If ATS keeps on growing, in the long run they will end up making money those of us with worthwhile theories, will gain access to Conspiracy Masters and also earn money off of our work.

At the end of the day, ATS is a private institute and one I enjoy being a part of. If they make a pretty penny, so be it - I will make money in other ways. Yes, there is a limit to what you can say but this happens everywhere and anywhere - that is life and they are allowed to be here.

As for some members? Yes, they do go on about people paying for the right to view DVDs and so on and so fourth and have a problem with that, these people need to move into the real world.

Lastly, there is a difference between them earning money due to the service they provide and writing a book, using this forum to discredit another author and then say "Here read my book for the truth". If you can't see the difference, use the X in the top corner.

You are not forced to be here, so either live with how it is run or leave. You can't change the place, no matter your viewpoint - sorry to inform you of that.



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by AgentSmith
That is a good question, the thing is that we would have to assume it was the reason, which it may not be, and as you say it's impossible to know which one anyway. It may even be several!..
Have you seen the movie 'Conspiracy Theory'? It seems strangely familiar now lol.

You must be psychic..
thought of that as I typed it.
A disgruntled banned mod.. [I love google].
People not wanting the show to go to air.
David Ike is really bored.
I know it doesn't help one iota to theorise.. but I guess matching up IPs of attackers [if available] with threads/topics that were most active in that time might narrow things down a bit [I'm not tech minded so don't know if that'd work] In any event it makes for good drama.. just needs a good car chase.

Well to hell with them, I say we laugh in their face.. This will only make us stronger and if anything has only made us realise what we have and appreciate it more. I know I do.

Agreed.


[edit on 27-1-2006 by riley]



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 01:33 PM
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I just can't imagine a better place for anyone who is trying to make a name for himself to publish his research than ATS.

The Three Amigos give us huge amounts of bandwidth and server power which can be utilized at no cost to release our information with. There just isn't any other way to make anything as public and as accessible than posting it here. And "peer review" is also provided by other knowledgeable members and staff, also at no cost to the poster.

Imagine something like this scenario:

You have spent three years researching some issue, and you think that you're really on to something new. You write up your findings, and perhaps put them up in your free blog or web server account for others to read and comment on. Maybe you even take the time and advertise your page in some forums where such thing is allowed. After a while, you get desperate, but then success strikes, and your site gets slashdotted in an instant. Your free service provider just closes everything down, and if you've subscribed to a bandwidth-placed plan, may hit you with extra charges and forced plan changes if you keep your pages on their servers.

Meanwhile, others have copied your stuff elsewhere and don't give attribution to you. You have no way of knowing where everything has gone, and not many ways to find out, unless you're rolling in cash or are a lawyer by day.

And since your research has now spreading out of control, it's being discussed in places you haven't even heard about, and you have no way of defending your position or clarifying your points. So, after a while, everything quiets down, and you get labeled as yet another kook with crazy ideas.

Now, do it on ATS:

You can rest assured that the system is up to the task. Equipment is built and designed to handle high loads, and if something really gets peoples attention, management will build separate structures to handle that traffic.
You can discuss your research and findings, and may revise things if some things get proven or disproven. Your rights are automatically protected by the ATS builtin T&C and CC license, and by giving some of your rights to ATS, you get their protection in return.

Sure, ATS just might stand a chance of making a buck with your research, but it isn't as if you hadn't gained anything in return.

I'm not aware of ATS gaining any profit from any research published here, but I'm quite certain that if that would happen, the author(s) and other participants would get much more than just 'attaboy' in return from ATS.



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 01:51 PM
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The three amigos should be sainted for this site rather then have to deal with ungrateful little pests who question them about how much they make off of the site



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 02:44 PM
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I feel the need to say something here. First off, every service that AboveTopSecret provides is free (at least in monetary terms, there are certain things that cost ATS points, but that's irrelevant right now). I don't pay a membership fee for posting on or reading the forums (though I really wouldn't mind that due to the high quality of the website).

Secondly, the ATS staff put in a HUGE amount of time towards upgrading ATS. I've witnessed the "evolution" of ATS over a number of years (including time before I was a registered member). There has definately been evidence that a lot of work was going into upgrading the site. I have also seen the threads about server upgrades and it is very easy to figure out what running the site costs monthly as mentioned before. The staff here are maintaining a website with over 50,000 members and approaching 2 million posts. Not to mention the podcasts which currently total over 3GB alone, this is a ton of content. It is hard to understand from a member's standpoint just how much work goes into the site.

Lastly, if they are profiting, I have absolutely no problem with it at all. I do not pay a thing to come to this site (well, other than my ISP) therefore the only income generated would be from the advertising. I find the advertising on this site VERY unintrusive and I don't mind it at all. There is very little compared to most sites and it just fits in with the overall layout and disrupts nothing. If they profit from that, so be it. In fact, I hope they do just for the amount of work that goes into the constant upgrades both software and hardware that are made and the work required to maintain that.

(/rant)
UO



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 03:04 PM
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I like postng.
I like exchanging ideas.
I don't give a crap how much money you make...
At least enough to pay the bills...And medical insurance for the Staff.

And to keep the Xeons running for Eons..

Thanks for the site.



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by Nerdling
Dear ATS;

Thank you for the free content you provide us with,

Screw that, I want the oodles of gold bullion that simply must be stashed away in Simon Grays secret underground vault!

I call dibs on Nerdlings portion of the booty!




posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by MCory1
Yeah, with all due respect (and best wishes), what exactly does Springer do? I know his title is something like "Director of Business Operations" or something to that effect; what are the duties he performs?

He rides in the front of the motorcycle line and lets the rest of us know when to circle around a target and hit them with our chains. Business is pretty cutthroat these days!


BUT, if they are claiming they are making a fair and balanced website which looks down on other sites which profit from the content those sites have

I must've missed that memo? Can you link me to it?



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 06:36 PM
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TheShroudOfMemphis said


It would be a good edition to ATS if it could show some valid accounting of it's money intake


Can you direct me to the law that states ATS et el have to reveal how much they make a year? And no I am not talking about required reporting to the IRS etc.

Ask your boss the very same question and more then likely you will immediately make his hit list


Ask your mother and father and perhaps they will over the head



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis
Are there any figures available for the amount of money that is made on ATS from advertising, merchandise and any other intake? Plus showing how it is spent on ATS bills and where any extra money goes?

[edit on 26-1-2006 by TheShroudOfMemphis]


Unbelievable...I wish I had the time in my day to worry how much someone else makes/doesn't make with a Hobby.


What will it prove with knowing this kind of info? Sure as hell won't make me sleep any better at night knowing what The 3 Amigos make.

I have only been a member of this Community for a little over a month now but have been veiwing on and off since 2002 and have learned a great deal of info I could not find elsewhere without extensive searching. Since that time I have not thought once ever what a site like this is making monetarily, nor do I care, Like others have said It is none of my business, and I don't want it to be a part of my business, this site is free and will stay that way , but if money was needed I would without a doubt help in any way I could.


We need to put this water under the bridge and move on to Denying Ignorance like Simon said in his last post!



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 09:01 PM
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Yes i belive we are just giveing this 'member' what he/she wants and that is attention. Also they are making points off this, which is another possable motive, we should just ignor this person and let this thread die.



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 09:49 PM
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Just to let you know, I know messageboards that are MUCH bigger than ATS (if you check big boards, I used to attend to big board no 1, Fok.nl), those sites obviously thrive thank to their ads, so ATS should do just fine with the ad support they have, and i'm happy for this, ATS does not have pop-ups or no premium membership junk either, so go ATS!



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 11:08 PM
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I'm with Benevolent Heretic. I hope you all get stinking rich. You deserve it.

BTW - I want to know where to buy those "nice" pills you've been feeding TC. How much are they? Are they available in Canada? He is such a funny guy when he's forced to be clever. Love it. Love you all.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Simon, SkepticOverlord, Springer, super mods, mods, experts, members. What sardion said.

For being here. For building this and keeping it going. For ignoring the idjits and making it happen. Thank you.

.



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by picklewalsh
Yes i belive we are just giveing this 'member' what he/she wants and that is attention. Also they are making points off this, which is another possable motive, we should just ignor this person and let this thread die.


Points. WOOOO. What is the going rate noadays? 1 or 2 points per reply? Some good laughs in this thread though ( TC
)



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 12:31 AM
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Wow just Wow where to begin....

Shroud you obviously have not one red cent of a clue the costs of JUST BANDWIDTH created by this site. No servers, no maintenance Just the frakin bandwidth alone.

Now what is it you paid to join this site??? NOTHING. What does it cost you to be here??? NOTHING. What does it cost to start a stupid thread such as you did...NOTHING.

For you to even insult Los Tres Amigos with a thread like this is laffable to say the least. I, just like most here, hope those 3 get rich beyond their wildest dreams from this venture and the upcoming cable show. Its the least that can happen for the multitude of time, effort, money, amongst a crapload of other things that they put into the building of ATS into what it is today.

So Frakin Be Happy you have a site such as this to enjoy for the meer cost of, what was it again,
oh thats right...FREE



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 03:31 AM
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people are being a little critical of this guy. He was just asking. No harm can be done from asking.

I have sometimes have had the same thoughts as him, I know how it feels. I do not believe all of ATS is bad. I thank the creators for providing it, if they did not provide it I wouldn't have the friends I made on this site.

I do not believe ATS is run by govt. I think that the govt is using this site to patch up their conspiracies, but I do not think that this site is run by any from of government.


Removed content that promoted clicking the textads.

[edit on 28-1-2006 by SkepticOverlord]



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 03:41 AM
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TheShroudOfMemphis saidIt would be a good edition to ATS if it could show some valid accounting of it's money intake


Who gives a toss?
The worst anyone could try and get upset about is if they perceive money being made from their work, but you know what you are signing up for when you join and you also know you will be given credit accordingly anyway.
You have to ask yourself anyway, if you didn't write on here - would you be writing it anywhere else and making money from it?
If you could be - why arn't you doing so instead if that's what you want?
Try and think of other ways one can publish their work to reach a large, varied audience... What are the chances of getting an article published in a journal, or perhaps you'd like to try a hand at getting a book published. There's nothing stopping you from doing this as well anyway.
We are given an excellent platform at no cost to ourselves, with many interesting and useful features, exciting opportunities on the horizon and a huge number of people to discuss it with.
Again all at not cost to ourselves, so who cares if they make $0.01 or $1,000,000 ? Well actually they may do, I know which figure I'd like to see, but coming here is voluntary - it's not forced, there is a choice about it.
You could join another forum, not bother with it at all or even start your own!

Basically if anyone has a problem with it due to envy or maybe because they've been successfully brainwashed by someone who believes some crappy mono PDAs from the 90's are coming...



Then you know where the door is:



[edit on 28-1-2006 by AgentSmith]



posted on Jan, 28 2006 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist06
He was just asking.


You're right. He did ask:


Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis
Are there any figures available for the amount of money that is made on ATS from advertising, merchandise and any other intake? Plus showing how it is spent on ATS bills and where any extra money goes?


But he didn't "just ask". He went on to make several 'back-door' accusations and suggestions that, in my opinion, while carefully worded not to directly accuse, showed a lack of respect and appreciation for the ownership and administration of ATS and questioned their policies and, most importantly, their ethics. In other words, he tried to make 'em look bad.

I had the same thought as you did. He certainly has the right to ask about it, as illustrated by the continued existence of this thread. But once I read over his post several times, it became clear that he wasn't 'just asking'. And as you can see, not many appreciate the suggestions he made about the 'sliminess' (for lack of a better word) of the Three Amigos.

If I may go off on a bit of a tangent, it's an all-too-common pattern in our culture for people to impose obligation on others based on freely giving to them. For example, if I send you a birthday card, I automatically expect one from you on my next birthday. And if I don’t get one, I may feel resentful. I have imposed an obligation simply by freely giving you something. I have given you something with strings attached.

Shroud is freely giving to ATS in the form of content of his posts and is receiving what ATS promises in the terms and conditions that he agreed to when he signed up. It appears he wants more, and that's ok, but he is not 'owed' any more. And because he doesn't get what he thinks he is owed, does not mean that something nefarious is going on. And to accuse, covertly or openly, the ATS administration of unethical practices because he’s not getting what he expects, is, to me, an attack born out of his resentment.

I understand that it’s tempting to get caught up in the accusations made by this other site, but in my opinion, Shroud is not looking at the total picture. He has been influenced by the one-sided viewpoint of this other site (which has a vested interest in maligning ATS).

I want to suggest to Shroud that he step back and take a look at the total picture. Think about what he gives to ATS and what he receives and how that maps to what ATS promises in their terms and conditions. And then weigh his value and act accordingly.

In my personal experience, I feel that I do receive what is promised in the terms and conditions, and therefore it is my opinion that ATS is operating ethically. Not only that, I feel they go above and beyond their promise to provide a fantastic forum for me to share my opinions and gather information.




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