Hints on the possible "Whore of Babylon"

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posted on Jan, 26 2006 @ 07:01 PM
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Who could the whore of Babylon be?

The papacy client state view:

www.biblebelievers.com...

www.remnantofgod.org...

look:




Above is a pagan Canaanite cultic pillar or "matstsebah", also found in excavations of the city of Hatzor, showing hands raised in praise to the sun disk, portrayed within the crescent moon.

now:



a photo of a stele from Ur of the Chaldees, with the symbol of the Babylonian sun god Shamash within the crescent of the moon goddess Nanna.



a statuette of the Egyptian goddess Isis. Her headdress shows the sun disk within the horns of an Apis bull, symbology which is virtually identical to that of the sunburst monstrance. Also of note, in Isis lap is her infant son, Horus. In this one image you have the symbology of the Catholic monstrance and Mother / child worship which is so prominent in Catholicism.




The Apis bull, as depicted in this Egyptian statuette, is likely to be the pattern used for the golden calf the Israelites made at Mount Sinai (Exo. 32), since they were undoubtedly quite familiar with it as a result of their long captivity in Egypt. Note that in front of the sun disk and horns, which looks virtually identical to some Catholic monstrances, there is the serpent poised to strike. In Scripture the serpent is symbolic of Satan. (Gen 3, Rev. 12:9)

What does that remind one of? .....





The monstrance.


Trident on idol:




Poseidon (often identified as either Mot or Baal in the Canaanite pantheon):



The trident is a questionable symbol.






Crest of the Dragon. Represents the pagan god Marduk from Babylon; Roman Emperor Heliogabalus introduced it to the Roman Empire in the 3-rd Century. This is the Vatican crest. Satan is identified as THE Dragon in scripture (as the annointed Cherub that was his holiest form, though he is now a different being in character and definitely not holy). Some may argue this just represents the Powers of angelic hierarchy- I digress. This is a pagan symbol with Satanic overtones.




Cybele with episcopal 'daggon-hat'...






Coincidence? Note the inverted cross on that throne. Also the bent crucifix.




100 Lire coins issued by the Vatican for nearly 10 years.Incredibly enough, the woman representing faith (the Catholic Church) on the reverse side of the coins holds up a cup in her right hand, in which you see pagan sunburst wafer god, which recalls these verses in Revelation:

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.






The cup of wine of the apostate woman (church) represents spiritual and doctrinal fornication, a mixing of truth and error, Christianity and paganism, which she has taught to the world (made the nations drink).

Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

There is only one self-proclaimed "Mother" church, The Universal (Catholic) Church.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.


Note the inverted cross again,(found on the CBS website):



More inverted crosses :



taken from

www.ewtn.com...#



CNN papal visit coverage.




The CBS caption says,

"The pope sits on the altar at Korazim. The backdrop depicts Christ with an open book that reads, 'Love your enemies, I will come soon.' "


What happened to Korazim in the bible again by the way? Wasn't it declared by Christ as an unholy and evil place destined to be judged in a far worse light than Sodom and Gommorha (which would have witnessed a revival if given what it was given)? This look's like mockery to me. Surely somebody as smart as JP would know this....

**More startling is the Grammar of that sentence (who have been the enemies of the papacy throughout history? Two groups primarily- Jews and Protestants, the exact groups who will face persecution in the end of times)**

More here:
- www.aloha.net...
- www.aloha.net...
- www.aloha.net...
- www.jesus-is-lord.com...

Excellent slideshow on pagan symbolisms in the papacy:
www.remnantofgod.org...


The EU / "revived Roman empire" view (succint):
www.contenderministries.org...


The Islamic Caliphate view:

www.answering-islam.org...

Check this out:



Tower of Babel - Peter Brueghel - 1563




EU "Parliament" Building - Strasbourg




The two images blend almost seamlessly




Note the stars on this portrait of Mary.




The EU's "Parliament" Building in Strasbourg has been deliberately designed to represent the Tower of Babel, as per the famous painting by Peter Brueghel, painted in 1563. The logic behind this symbolism is the the EU is seeking to "build the house of Europe" - a task yet to be completed. The building is complete and in use, but is designed to look unfinished, and even has ringed platforms around it to represent scaffolding. When asked by a secular journalist ‘Why the Tower of Babel?’ an EU official replied, ‘What they failed to complete 3000 years ago – we in Europe will finish now.’


The Tower of Babel was one man's first atempts to form a system to exalt himself, a complete foreshadow of a one world system on the horizon with a leader similar to Nimrod. Now who's this leader is up for grabs. I'm sure we will know soon.

info on original tower of Babel:




Here's our good friend Nimrod in disguise:



Papal crest anyone? Theological ancestor of the Pharoahs no doubt.


[edit on 26-1-2006 by Nakash]

[edit on 26-1-2006 by Nakash]




posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 01:14 AM
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I must say, you certainly have done your homework! This is quite an impressive collection and I thank you for presenting it.


That said, it seems rather obvious you are drawing the wrong conclusions. The whore of Babylon already existed at the time Revelation was written, and it was not the RCC, but rather, those who did the bidding of the pre-Christian Roman empire. Revelation loses its mystery if you interpret it in terms of what the author would have experienced and known rather than trying to project it forward 1900 years.

What you have unwittingly presented is the solar mythological underpinnings of Christianity in symbolic form, that has nothing to do with the whore of Babylon.



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 01:26 AM
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Nakash, interesting contribution

Given your interest in this area, what's your take on this thread?
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 11:43 AM
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Interesting this link between Tryptamines and supernatural phenomena. In Brazil I knew about a small cult that claimed you had out of body experiences with Ayahuasca ("Cha de Sao Daime") which is similar to Tryptamines in it's chemistry (it is a Tryptamine actually). They were going to get Goverment regulation (primarily due to all the tourists having bad trips and then returning home altered). May I suggest you read a little on Terence Mckenna twitch? I heard he is an expert on the correlations between these and other drugs and spiritual ideologies. You might be interested in knowing that sorcery and drug use is many times lumped together in the bible (ie: the Greek "Pharmacos" is often used to denote witchcraft). I obviously don't believe the bible authors were stoned though


Spam, that would be incorrect. You see, Revelations is just an indepth study of former prophecy (particularly Daniel's 70 weeks). It fill's in on what we didn't know, and fleshes out the senario a bit more. So it wasn't really written as a scared reactionary anti-Roman piece to be honest. Many would disagree with me though, but I'm a Pre-Millennialist.




Eusebius' Ecclesiastical history, 3:39 records Papias' (140AD) testimony that John the apostle taught him that Jesus would literally come back in the flesh and reign for 1000 years.
Justin Martyr (165AD) was a disciple of Polycarp. Polycarp worked with John the Apostle in ministry for over 20 years. Justin states in his Dialogue chapters 32 & 110 that their would be a literal 7 year tribulation, and chapter 81 there will be a literal 1000 year reign of Christ.
Irenaeus (177AD), who also studied under Polycarp and talked with John when he was young, teaches in his 'Against Heresies' 5:25-30 a literal tribulation and 1000 year reign of Christ. He goes on to say in 5:35 that Christians who try to allegorize these things are immature Christians.
Tertullian (202AD) taught in his 'Against Marcion' 3.5 that the 1000 year reign of Christ is real.

In Eusebius' Ecclesiastical history (325AD) states in 7.25 the Gnostic Cerinthus started teaching not only is the 1000 years literal but it would be for gratifying the sensual appetites like, food, drink, sex, ect. This perverse teaching lead some early Christians to reject the book of Revelation and others to accept it but view the 1000 years as symbolic.
In Ecclesiastical history 7.24 we learn when allegorical interpretation became the normal style of interpretation Nepos, a bishop in Egypt, around 295 AD, wrote a book entitled "Refutation of the Allegorists" In which he interpreted the millennium as literal. This led some to think he was trying to revive the old teaching of Cerinthus. This caused more Christians to begin to hold to the millennium among other things as allegorical. Others began to avoid the issue all together.
Dionysius, in his "Promises," also mentions Nepos and Millennialism. ECF 6.81
Victorinus commentary on Revelation chapter 22 also mentions Cerinthus.

Eusebius (325AD) and Augustine (597AD) taught the Millennium was not literal. But remember at the council of Nicea, instead of taking the position that Jesus was homousos or heterousos, Eusebius tried to make a compromise stating Jesus was neither, which of course did not work. This shows his tendency toward avoiding the controversy. Augustan taught what would later be called Calvinism. All the first and second century fathers taught it was a Gnostic perversion to say man is not given a choice in salvation.


Cerinth (a gnostic) was the main force which had many people hold the book as allegorical or a piece of apocrypha at best. Thanks to him many people were turned off by a literal interpretation of Revelations (due to his perverse teaching on sensual apetites being fullfilled by the second coming of Christ).


[edit on 27-1-2006 by Nakash]



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 06:55 PM
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Nakash, thank you so much for 'showing' some of the many reasons people leave the Catholic Church (like me) and end up becoming Christian.

Alot of people think threads like this are just Catholic bashing and defend their traditions and doctrines of men, ahead and against the Bible it is supposed to be based on.

Ever noticed how often Christian basher use Catholic doctrine and history to attack Christianity yet refuse to acknowledge that these are the same complaints Christians raise against the Catholic Church?

I believe this is because 'worldly' people do fear Her (in the negative sence) more than they believe and trust in The Creator God.

Take this thread as an example; Spamandham manages to let the Catholic church off the hook but insult Christianity and Twitchy just links to his own anti-faith thread, but where are all those who usually feel the need to 'save folk from Christianity'?
Do they fear attacking the Catholic Church with the same effort they attack Christianity will create more Christians?



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 07:06 PM
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No problem. Been there (my Mother is Catholic, father a lapsed protestant. Grew up as a Catholic mainly, though I read the Vedas, Quran,talmud, and so forth during my childhood).

[edit on 27-1-2006 by Nakash]



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by Nakash
Spam, that would be incorrect. You see, Revelations is just an indepth study of former prophecy (particularly Daniel's 70 weeks). It fill's in on what we didn't know, and fleshes out the senario a bit more. So it wasn't really written as a scared reactionary anti-Roman piece to be honest. Many would disagree with me though, but I'm a Pre-Millennialist.


I completely disagree. Revelation is an adaptation of Daniel to fit things going on around 70CE, much like The Late Great Planet Earth is an adaptation of both of those books combined to fit modern events.



posted on Jan, 27 2006 @ 11:13 PM
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Spamandhan, are you just so addicted to bashing Christianity you won't allow the topic to be discussed because you won't allow anyone to hold any respect for The Bible, or are you just defending the Catholic Church with your cunning deflections?

I have never known a Christian so hell bent on shoving their beliefs down others throats and converting people as you, and that is one of your big complaints against them.

Fine, you don't believe in God and think no one else should, so start a thread on that topic and let others discuss Christian related issues without your constant highjacking. Please.

Nakash has raised an issue important to people of faith (whether the Bible can or should be believed is not the topic, but what it means to those who do believe) but you felt the need to declare it a non-issue which is pretty insulting to someone who's put all that work into posting and those of us thankfull for it.



posted on Jan, 29 2006 @ 04:48 PM
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why do noncatholic christians always have to bash the pope?

i just want to know, why the pope, why not pat robertson?

the pope does have a lot of ancient pagan tradition associated with the position, but that's only the MOST obvious of pagan influences on christianity as a whole.



posted on Jan, 30 2006 @ 10:14 PM
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I *Never* said a single word in favour of Pat Robertson.



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by Nakash
Above is a pagan Canaanite cultic pillar or "matstsebah", also found in excavations of the city of Hatzor, showing hands raised in praise to the sun disk, portrayed within the crescent moon.

So then jesus is the whore of babylon no? After all, he's the guy who suggested the whole 'eat bread, feel good' bit no? Also, thats not a sun disck, thats the moon.

There was also a mystery cult popular in the empire at the time that had, as the culmination of its 'mass', the preist raising a shaft of wheat above the crowd. Its a rather common practice.

Also, why have you singled out the papacy? Are we supposed to pretend that only the papacy has a eucharist? I mean, your analogy is completely false.

I don't see how you went from the apis bull with the sun disk between its horns and the poised snake atop its head to a cross with a halo and a circle.

I also don't see where you get this bit about poseidon being baal, outside of being able to say that any pagan god is baal. As far as the statue, what statue is it? That hand sign is not a satanic one.


[The dragon] is a pagan symbol with Satanic overtones.

Please demonstrate that it was considered such at the time that it came into use. You've, in the same paragraph, stated that its a symbol of Marduk and Satan. Apparently, you are simply saying that anythign that doesn't conform to your private understanding of God is, ipso facto, satanic.


Cybele with episcopal 'daggon-hat'...

And when was that drawing made? Also, who else uses that hat?


having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

The holy grail with a divine light issuing from it is not what most goodly christers would call excrement and abomination.

The catholic church is called the mother church for the same reason england is the mother country, because, like england, its got little sprout off's. England has colonies like canada and australia, the RCC has the indian thomasine church, the assyrian church, etc etc, which are able to incorporate into it because of it being 'catholic', ie, 'universal'.

Also, as far as the entemanaki being the tower of babel, thats pure supposition. I think its reasonable to say that the bible story is some sort of memory of that zuggurate, but to say that its associated with the creation of languages makes no sense.



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 02:53 PM
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Lately I think it's clear that the Whore of Babylon must be Islam. The antichrist was Mohammed. Revelation has been playing out for hundreds and hundreds of years, I think we've been making a mistake to think all these events would happen quickly and together in time. The false prophet is one who will come and take up the mantle of Mohammed and impose Islam on the world. Muslims use one hand to carry the Koran, which itself is the mark of the beast.



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 05:42 PM
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WOAH

i see a couple of people getting pissed off by that last post.
frankly i dont care, im not muslim
but holy crap..that was a bold statement.

as for the pat robertson thing. im christian but im not catholic and i sure as heck dont like pat robertson. this whole televangelist extravaganza is a load of crap.
its like:

"Hello today we are going to talk about the will of God, and in the next segment get ready because i have just created a new diet formula for all you and for your donation of 59.00 i will send you my specially translated bible and a diet shake".

i mean c'mon give me a break , you might as well just start your own church that is just all TV monitor based...wait..they already did start that....*rolls eyes* non-denominational b.s is all it is.

Kind Regards,
Digitalgrl



posted on Jan, 31 2006 @ 10:06 PM
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Hi Nygdan. Well, for starters the Catholic church is one of the few denominations with the Eucharist. There is no Eucharist in Christianity, only the Lord's supper which is a symbolic ritual with a completely different meaning than that of Catholicism's bread God of Egypt. Second, the God of the Canaanites was singled out by none other than God himself as being an evil spirit. Not just an evil spirit, their chief. We see this in 1st, 2nd Kings, 2nd Chronicles, and in Matthew where Christ singles out Hadad as an unclean spirit while debating the Pharisees (who tried to insult him by calling him a servant of Hadad, read Matt 12 for the complete rebuke). Satan's many titles:


-the serpent (Genesis 3:1-2, 4, 13-14; 2Corinthians 11:3; Revelation 12:9, 14-15)

-ancient serpent (Revelation 12:9; Revelation 20:2)

-the coiling serpent (Isaiah 27:1)

the gliding serpent (Isaiah 27:1)

-the dragon (Revelation 12:4, 7, 13, 16-17; Revelation 20:2)

-enormous red dragon (Revelation 12:3)

-the great dragon (Revelation 12:9)

We have a consensus- Satan is *THE* Dragon. This is because it's the holiest form of the Cherubim class of angels. Baal is often depicted as a Dragon or riding one as a steed. Why this connection? Well, first of all we must see the Canaanite religion for what it is- the remnants of a prediluvian cult re-established by Nimrod in Babylon (who ruled as a Pharoah claiming to be a human God), and surviving in paganism throughout the ages up to it's current incarnation in the papacy (as well as many other sects and religions). If we read scripture with care, we will know why the Canaanites were abhorred by God and their whole religion singled out. That reason is that it is forbidden Cherubim worship (here we go into the events of Genesis 6, as well as the different paths Noah's sons took after the flood). This was carried to Egypt, and eventually the Hebrews took it up and many times refused to let go (best examples is the sacred calf in Sinai, and the Ahab period of rule in which Cherubim worship resurfaced).The famed scholar Alexander Hislop put's all these pieces together, read his book (linked above). As for the Mahdi being the Antichrist, I believe he is (Not Mohammed though- just a false prophet). Who else is going to lead Magog ? The Easter bunny? No, it's going to be the fellow Muslims themselves tell us it's going to be- the Mahdi (ie: Antichrist, with his sidekick the false prophet, ie: Fake Jesus )

[edit on 31-1-2006 by Nakash]



posted on Feb, 1 2006 @ 05:20 AM
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Originally posted by Nakash
No problem. Been there (my Mother is Catholic, father a lapsed protestant. Grew up as a Catholic mainly, though I read the Vedas, Quran,talmud, and so forth during my childhood).

[edit on 27-1-2006 by Nakash]


I can imagine the facts being either way re the Romans.

Kathleen Keating (A devout Roman) seems to lean toward the dark, evil Pope arising next etc. and leading the RC's into the evil world AntiChrist system.

Certainly, per my reading of Scriptural prophecies about the end times, THE WORLD ?economic? SYSTEM will be a key or the key part of THE WHORE.

However, Dimitru Duduman had before his death a great number of vivid dreams and visions asserting that the USA was said WHORE. Have his prophetic dreams and visions been discussed on ATS?



posted on Feb, 1 2006 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by Nakash
I *Never* said a single word in favour of Pat Robertson.


just thinking of a well known, hate spouting evangelical, and he came to mind, not saying you said anything supporting him



posted on Feb, 1 2006 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by djohnsto77
Lately I think it's clear that the Whore of Babylon must be Islam. The antichrist was Mohammed. Revelation has been playing out for hundreds and hundreds of years, I think we've been making a mistake to think all these events would happen quickly and together in time. The false prophet is one who will come and take up the mantle of Mohammed and impose Islam on the world. Muslims use one hand to carry the Koran, which itself is the mark of the beast.


i had to take a walk to calm down after i read this...

first off, you provide no evidence to link them, no evidence of mohammed being the antichrist, no evidence of the whore of babylon being islam.

before i say any more on this subject, i want to see the evidence.



posted on Feb, 1 2006 @ 02:34 PM
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and on the upside down cross matter

that can easily be explained

one of the apostles or some other close disciple of jesus was to be crucified. he said that he wasn't worthy to die in the same manner as his lord, so they crucified him upside down.

upside down crucifixes (the crosses that include the j man) are satanic, not upside down crosses.



posted on Apr, 6 2006 @ 06:02 PM
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The whore of Babylon is the internet. It holds all the evil that humanity will ever need. We're all involved in it.



posted on Apr, 7 2006 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by Nakash
There is no Eucharist in Christianity, only the Lord's supper which is a symbolic ritual with a completely different meaning than that of Catholicism's bread God of Egypt.


Oh brother. Had a slow day Nakash?? Back to fundamentalist
style bashing Catholics?


Yes there is the Eucharist in Chrisitianity. Also communion in
the Catholic Church has nothing to do with bread gods of Egypt.

It's not 'symbolic ritual' as you say. Scripture is VERY clear that
it is actually Christ. No where in John does Christ say 'hey, this is
a symbol of me'. Nope. He says 'this is My body' and 'this is My blood'.
When all His disciples left because it was too hard for them to hear,
He said 'amen amen ... unless you eat of the flesh of the Son of Man
you will not have eternal life in you.'

Christ is extremely clear on that. I know it isn't what you want to hear.
But it's a stark fact. I'm not going to bother posting again on this thread.
It won't do any good. You won't listen.

Called the Lords Supper - 1 Cor 11:20
Called the Agape (love-feast) - Jude 12
Called the breaking of the bread - Acts 2:42
Promised by Christ - John 6:27-59
Instituted by Christ - Mathew 26:26-29, Mark 14:22, Luke 22:15-20
1 Cor 11:23-25
Christ actually present in - Matthew 26:26, Mark 14:22, Luke 22:19, John 6:35, 41, 51-58, 1 Cor 11:27-29
Commemoration of Calvary - Matthew 26:28, Luke 22:19-20, 1 Cor 10:16; 11:25-26.
Uniting us to Christ - Acts 2:42, Rom 12:5, 1 Cor 10:17
Source of Divine Life - John 6:27, 33, 50, 51, 58.
Jesus is the Bread of Life - John 6:35, 41, 48, 51

www.catholic.com...
www.catholic.com...
www.catholic.com...
www.catholic.com...

[edit on 4/7/2006 by FlyersFan]





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