POLITICS: Palestinian PM Steps Down- Gives Job to Hamas

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
What, do you just come around here rigfht before I have to go to work and try and play games simply for fun?

Don't try and play word games, Subz. You know what you inferred about hate.
In case you are slow to remember, go back and reread other threads in which we have both posted. I have stated that the term "Palestinian" was offensive to the Arabs before 1967, they took that word only for political purposes.
They highjacked that word in order to convolute the conversation.
Just as you are trying to do right now.

Didnt answer the question, ho-hum and what a surprise.

You say im playing word games when its YOU who is playing semantics with the term Palestinian and lets not forget your blustery outbursts about my use of "illegal settlements" that you didnt do anything about.

If you answer my question you can clear any doubt in my mind that you arent a racist and hatefilled bigot: Do you respect the Palestinian people?

Looks its not hard to answer, Ive been accused of being anti-Jewish. Do I respect the Israeli people? Yes, I think they are a respectable and loving people who have the misfortune of being lead by a bunch of asses.

I'll answer it again, Ive been accused of being anti-American. Do I respect the American people? Yes, I think they are a fantastic group of people who have achieved so much in such a short period of time but like the Israelis they are lead by a bunch of asses.

I'll ask you again TC, do you respect the Palestinian people?

Originally posted by subz

the Palestinian people

A little bit offtopic again, but:

The term "Palestinians" indeed has many usages, subz - and @Odium, no, the Jews did not at all "hijack" the term.

• The word itself derives from "Peleshet", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as "Philistine". The name began to be used in the Thirteenth Century BCE, for a wave of migrant "Sea Peoples" who came from the area of the Aegean Sea and the Greek Islands and settled on the southern coast of the land of Canaan. There they established five independent city-states (including Gaza) on a narrow strip of land known as Philistia. The Greeks and Romans called it "Palastina".
  
  The Philistines were not Arabs, they were not Semites. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs. The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name. It is the Arab pronunciation of the Greco-Roman "Palastina" derived from the Peleshet.
  
  
• Look at the term "Palestinians" short before the state of Israel was born:
  
  At that time, everybody living in the area of the area called "Palestine" under the the British mandate (1918 to 1948) has been called ""Palestinian" - regardless it they where Muslims, Christians, Druzes, Jews.....
  
  
• After the 1967 war, the PNC (Palestinian National Charter [the charter of the PLO]) defined who is a Palestinian:
  
  
  
  • Arab citizens who were living normally in Palestine up to 1947, whether they remained or were expelled" and their descendants through the male line.
    
    AND according to Article 6 of the PNC:
    
    
  • Jews who had normally resided in Palestine until the beginning of the "Zionist Invasion" [ed Riwka: which means before 1917]
    

Of course, e.g. my family, who has been in the area which is today Israel very long before 1917, does not call ourself "Palestinians" - we are jewish Israelis. (and also nobody else [especially NOT those I call Palestinians] call us 'Palestinians')

The Muslimes, Christians, Druzes, .....who are citizens of Israel call themselves "Arab Israelis" or "Palestinian Israelis" or "Filastini"(Palestinians), etc.

- the others (from that bigger area) call themselves mostly "Palestinians" or "Arabs" or "Druze" or according to their citizenship (e.g. British of Arab /Palestinian orign).


I think today most people use Palestinian people like I use the term:

non-jewish people who live /lived in that bigger area before Israel was established

children of those (no matter if male or female line)



[edit on 7-2-2006 by Riwka]

So why the discussion over the term? A term is only a conveyance of a meaning, the term Palestinian is now interpreted as exactly what we are discussing i.e. those Arabs who are from or currently live in the area controlled by Britain's Palestinian Mandate.

So why attempt to portray the Palestinians as some crafty group of people who have usurped a term for some clandestine purpose?

Originally posted by subz
Yes, I think they are a respectable and loving people who have the misfortune of being lead by a bunch of asses.

Yes, I think they are a fantastic group of people who have achieved so much in such a short period of time but like the Israelis they are lead by a bunch of asses.

Quiet convenient isnt it ?? Too timid to confront the truth about your hate you conveniently turn it around to say that they have been lead by "asses" . These "asses" are BTW elected in a democratic framework, which would imply that indirectly you insult all the people who have voted for these leaders ! Which again means that you imply that the people are the real culprits.

The Jewish people in Israel have been lead by some of the best leaders in the world and without leaders like the ones they had today we would not have the state of Isreal. It would have been overrun by the Arabs and the Jews would have been massacred. Because they had smart and pragmatic people lilke Ben Gurion and others Isreal has the amount of peace it has now. However marginal it may be.
No matter how you try to hide your bias it stands out for all to see. I would think that one should instead focus their energies on a peoples policies rather than a nations leaders.

Originally posted by IAF101
Quiet convenient isnt it ?? Too timid to confront the truth about your hate you conveniently turn it around to say that they have been lead by "asses" . These "asses" are BTW elected in a democratic framework, which would imply that indirectly you insult all the people who have voted for these leaders ! Which again means that you imply that the people are the real culprits.

The Jewish people in Israel have been lead by some of the best leaders in the world and without leaders like the ones they had today we would not have the state of Isreal. It would have been overrun by the Arabs and the Jews would have been massacred. Because they had smart and pragmatic people lilke Ben Gurion and others Isreal has the amount of peace it has now. However marginal it may be.
No matter how you try to hide your bias it stands out for all to see. I would think that one should instead focus their energies on a peoples policies rather than a nations leaders.

Nice try but I dont play that game. Ive said I respect the Israeli people and I am completely genuine. There is no point in trying to persuade you, the written and anonymous nature of online forums are limited in persuasive abilities.

The Democratic process as exists in Western nations is a farce. We have two choices which leads to either not voting or choosing the lesser of two evils. We are not free to vote for whoever we like and to infer that I proscribe guilt onto the Israeli public et al for voting in these "asses" is absurd. I despise the elected "leaders" of my country of birth (Britain) and my country of residence (Australia). They are both flawed and dispicable polticians who deserve neither allegiance or respect. Does that mean I hate all Australians and Britons because they voted them into office? Oh dear I must be really full of hatred here...

Interesting that you mention Ben Gurion, he was a terrorist. He is responsible for the murder of innocent civilians and British military personelle. He is no different to any Hamas leader, he was blowing innocent people up in the name of securing a homeland. Try not to forget that.

[edit on 8/2/06 by subz]

The Hamas/Palestinian issue is unfolding pretty much the way I thought it would. Hamas is continuing to issue hardline statements of committment to their past stance, while Israel and almost the entire western world is showing sympathy and agreement with the Israeli/U.S. stance. Meanwhile, Arabic governments are keeping the pressure on Hamas to recognize Israel and past accords. This game can be played a while longer yet, but not too much longer because the funding available to the Palestinians is going to start drying up very soon.

I do not think it will be much longer before Hamas blinks and begins to show signs of change. They are caught between a rock and a hard place and they know it. About the dumbest thing they could do right now would be to lash out at the Israeli's in frustration at their own plight. Hamas is not a newcomer to the PR game though and may yet throw a few surprises at Israel. The best thing Israel can do right now is continue to play the patient, potential friend card and let time be their friend.

[edit on 19-2-2006 by Astronomer68]