Has anyone witnessed a blatant Satanic ritual within a Freemasonry Lodge/Temple?

Originally posted by Peace to you all
Apparently, this photograph shows a Masonic ritual.




Is it me, or is this a bit bizarre??

Its definitely you. If this is your idea of bizarre, you need to get out more.

Ive seen MUCH weirder crap at barracks parties in the army and at wedding receptions than is shown in this photo.

I dont get whats so bizarre. Looks like a game of poin the tail on the donkey to me.

funny story (kinda) I was talking to my father in law about a dan brown book (deception point, very good btw) and the topic of his next book being about freemasons came up

to my utter shock, my father in law of 11 years told me he is a free mason ! I laughed to myself because of ATS. he is the lay leader of his methodist church, and a devout christian. He is a throw back to he 50's, a straight arrow all the way

my wife asked him what it means to be a freemason, and he said
" a belief in god, and a willingness to serve the community. its basically a service organization"

I'm sold.

A reference, about trampling on the cross, this text (sorry for it's length) is taken from an e-book called the secret rituals of the O.T.O, which is the founders of the masons and the rituals in which they activley take part in. I find it hard to believe that people think there is no satanism in Masonary, as in the beginning they rebeled against the church (all churches) and became free - men (free from the laws of God) and wrote there own laws becoming the book of law for the freemasons:

Here is that extract:

PART TWO
The Rituals Themselves
*
FIFTH DEGREE54

Form of the Petition

TO BE WRITTEN OUT AND SIGNED BY EVERY POSTULANT

I, the undersigned, request the Most Wise and Perfect Sovereign and the Very August, Excellent,
Puissant and Perfect Princes now assembled, that you will be graciously pleased to admit me to your
Princely Order.
I trust that the sincerity of my endeavours to promote the Glory of the Rosie Cross and the Welfare of
Mankind will entitle me to your favourable opinions.
Assuring you that I shall not fail to redeem my pledge of allegiance to this Sovereign Chapter, and to
devote my Rose and Cross to the prosperity and happiness of the Princes of this sublime degree, I
subscribe myself.
(Signed ........................ (IV°)


THE FURNITURE OF A CHAPTER OF ROSE CROIX
RED ROOM

Altar. White silk altar-cloth, with Rose 49 on gold cross 5 with 4 green rays.
Super-altar. Black. 7 steps. Copy of Stele of Revealing. 33 lights. 33 roses. Paten and
Chalice. Cakes of Light and Red Wine.
(Optional. Crystal globe: Image of Babalon: &c. But no male symbol.)
Thrones. One each side of the altar for M.W.S.55 and H.P.56 one in West for G.M.57

The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O.
Stalls for other Princes.
Banners. The Banner of the Rite above M.W.S.
The Banner of Love above the Most Reverend and Perfect Prelate.
Personal banners of the other Princes above their stalls.
Floor-cloth. Ladder. Brass letters for same.
The Brand.

The hangings should be rosy red.
BLACK ROOM
Tau.
Crucifix.
Pillars. Three, surmounted by lamps with 11 holes and letters T.S.L.
Bible.
Bones, skulls, skeletons, hell-broth for 2nd point.
The hangings should be black.
ANTEROOM
V.S.L. and writing materials.


THE
OPENING OF A
SOVEREIGN CHAPTER OF ROSE CROIX

The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O.
M.W.S.: v Very excellent and Perfect Princes, be pleased to assist me to open the Chapter of the Holy
Order of Rose Croix of Heredom!
(All rise.)
Very excellent and perfect Grand Marshal, see that the Castle Gates are duly guarded, and that all is
secure within.
(The door is tested. The Grand Marshal receives the first three signs from all present.)
G.M.: All is secure both within and without.
M.W.S.: What is the hour?
H.P.: It is the hour when the Veil of the Temple was rent in twain,
When darkness began to outspread the earth,
When the altar was thrown down,
The Star called Wormwood fell upon the earth,
When the Blazing Star was eclipsed,
The Sacred Tau was defiled with blood and water, the word was lost, and despair and tribulation visited
us.
(Solemn musick.)
M.W.S.: Since the Royal Art has experienced such dire calamities, it is our duty, very Excellent and
Perfect Princes to retrieve the loss; and may the influence of Truth, Silence, and Love prosper our
endeavours to recover the Lost Word.
(He lays down the Crucifix and tramples upon it.)
Therefore, with my heel upon the head of the Great Serpent I declare this Chapter of Rose Croix duly
opened in the name of BABALON and THE BEAST conjoined, of the Secret Savior and of IAO.
(Applause.)

The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O.
H.P.: (Sits.)
G.M.: (Sits.)
(All seat themselves.)
RECEPTION OF POSTULANT
First Point
M.W.S.: Very Excellent and Perfect Princes, the business of this evening is the reception of Brother
(Sister) ...
(H.P. retires to Red Room, or acts as introducer.
M.W.S. takes position on Tau, setting up the ... and placing the Crucifix on his breast.
G.M. draws sword, and goes without veil. Introducer, who has habited Postulant in white, with IV°
apron, and placed the V.S.L. in his hand, takes the petition to G.M. who takes it to M.W.S. who says:
‘Admit the Postulant!’ Introducer returns to Postulant, and leads him amid strains of martial musick to
the outer veil. Then he knocks. G.M. draws veil.)

G.M.: Who are you?
Introducer: A Member of the Body of Initiates.
G.M.: Whither go you?
Introducer: To the Immortal Mansions of Babalon.
G.M.: What is your rank?
Introducer: I am become a Perfect Magician.
G.M.: Give me the sign.
(Done.)

Your petition has been favourably received by this Princely Chapter; but, whilst we admire your zeal and
courage, alas! you came amongst us at a time when we are overwhelmed by the deepest sorrow.
Consternation now spreads horror over our brows. An earthquake rends the fair breast of our mother, and

The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O.
the Head of the Great Serpent is exalted. The Veil of the Temple is rent asunder.
(G.M. flings aside.)
Our altars are thrown down; the sacred Tau is defiled with Blood and Water; the Star called Wormwood
is fallen upon the earth; and the Blazing Star is eclipsed.
Also, the Word is lost.
(Slow musick.)
M.W.S.: Nevertheless, we rejoice that you have arrived at this hour of peril: your strength and courage
may assist us to retrieve our loss, and recover the Word.
Worthy Sir (Noble Dame) I direct you to travel 33 years, 11 to the South, 11 to the West, 11 to the North,
returning to me in the East to report the results of your travels.
(G.M. leads Postulant 11 circles deosil and then takes him to the Southern Pillar, where he finds T; 11
circles, and to Western Pillar, where he finds S; 11 circles and to Northern Pillar, where he finds L. He is
then brought to head of M.W.S.)
G.M.: Holy Father, I beg to present to you B... (S...) who has completed the 33 years travel imposed on
him (or her).
M.W.S.: What have you discovered?
Introducer: I have searched in and about the Pillars in the South, West, and North for the Lost Word, but
have only succeeded in finding the letters T., S., and L.
M.W.S.: I congratulate you on the success which has already rewarded your exertions. These letters are
the initials of the virtues by whose assistance you may be led to the recovery of the Lost Word. T. stands
for Truth, S. stands for Silence, L. for Love, while in conjunction ... (he checks himself). But before I can
explain myself further, I must call upon you to take a solemn obligation to keep inviolate the Secrets and
Mysteries of our Holy Order. Are you willing to do this?
Postulant: I am.
M.W.S.: Then remove from my breast the heavy burden which oppresses me, and cast it behind you,
replacing it by the Volume of the Sacred Law, about which you will arrange the three letters in the form
of a triangle; interlock the fingers of your hands and place the palms upon my forehead, look into my
eyes and say after me;

The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O.

I, ..., in the Name of the Holy Trinity One and Indivisible, and in the presence of this Perfect and Princely
Chapter of the Holy Order of the Rose Croix of Heredom, do hereby and hereon most solemnly promise
and swear that I will hele, conceal, and never reveal the Mysteries of a Sovereign Prince Rose Croix.
I swear eternal fealty and allegiance to the Supreme Council by whose authority this Chapter is
constituted in the person of its Most Puissant Sovereign Grand Commander Baphomet.
I further pledge myself to the service of the Order to the last drop of my blood and the last penny of my
purse.
All this I swear to observe without evasion, equivocation, or mental reservation of any kind, were it at
the cost of the death of my body and the damnation of my soul.
Aumn.
Arise, newly-obligated brother, raising to your lips the Volume of the Sacred Law, and seal the Oath with
seven kisses.
(Done.)
Very Excellent and Perfect Grand Marshal, let the Postulant be conducted from the Chapter and invested
with a black apron and collar, for by such a badge we do designate those who are in search of the Lost
Word.
(G.M. takes out Postulant, and invests him, removing his P.M. apron, saying: ‘This attire cannot be worn
in the Age of the Lost Word’. Meanwhile the Princes rise from their attitudes of mourning and extinguish
the lights, overthrow the pillars, strew the floor with corpses, skulls and bones, light a pungent incense,
and the hell-broth. As the Candidate re-enters in charge of the Grand Marshal, a sack is thrown over his
head, and he is thrust through the veil, and beaten, pricked and pushed by all as they cry litanies of Jesus,
Joseph, and Mary while he gropes his way. The M.W.S. and G.M. should however retire to Red Room.)
Second Point

(All present enter the Red Room, and assume insignia and stalls. The Most Reverend and Perfect Prelate
advances from the Red Room. She takes Postulant by the hand. The sack is removed.)

H.P.: I come to conduct you from the depths of darkness and the valley of death.
Truth will direct you when you err
Silence will sustain you in every trial

The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O.
Love will comfort you upon your path.
(Musick: ‘Tristan and Isolde’.)
(The door of the Red Room is opened by G.M. who removes the black apron and collar. The Postulant
finds himself at the foot of the ladder. G.M. closes door behind him. All present are in the Sign of
Heredom.)

H.P.: Holy Father, I present to you this worthy Knight, who has passed through the depths of darkness
and the Valley of Death in search of the Lost Word, having been fortified with Truth, Silence, and Love.

M.W.S.: Let the Postulant Ascend the ladder which leads to glory and perfection!
(H.P. tells P. to take one step (I°) and pick up the letter.)
M.W.S.: What guides you?
P.: Truth.
(Prompted by H.P. He then takes the 2nd step.)
M.W.S.: What defends you?
P.: Silence.
(3rd step.)
M.W.S.: What inspires you?
P.: Love.
M.W.S.: T.S.L., The Sacred Law?
Do What Thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
(P. takes the 4th step.)
Who is your father?
P.: Iacchus.
The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O.
(5th step.)
M.W.S.: Who is your mother?
P.: Natura.
(6th step.)
M.W.S.: Who is your teacher?
P.: Ratio.
(7th step.)
M.W.S.: Then who are thou?
P.: IAO.
(All cry IAO loudly.)
M.W.S.: Give me the initials of the last 4 words.
P.: I.N.R.I.
M.W.S.: Sir Knight (Noble Dame) You have indeed by the air of Truth, Silence, and Love, succeeded in
finding the Lost Word. To order, Very Excellent and Perfect Princes! Let us analyse the Word!
(All stand to order, swords above head, lip in finger and thumb of left hand. The 3 officers form the
descending triangle above Postulant.)
M.W.S.: I.
H.P.: N.
G.M.: R.
All: I.
M.W.S.: Yod.
The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O.
H.P.: Nun.
G.M.: Resh.
All: Yod.
M.W.S.: Virgo, Iacchus, holy Father.
H.P.: Scorpio, Asi, Holy Mother.
G.M.: Sol, Orus, holy Child.
All: Iacchus, Asi, Orus, IAO.
(They walk round P., and form a line of 3 giving nox sign.)
All: The Sign of Orus.
(They continue circumambulation.)
H.P.: (Facing P.) The Sign of the Dance of Asi.
(They continue.)
M.W.S.: (Facing P.) The Sign of the Joy of Iacchus.
(They continue.)
G.M.: (Facing P.) The Sign of the Blazing Star.
(They continue and again form line.)
All: (Giving + and nox signs.) L.U.X. Lux the Light of the True Cross.
(They return to their thrones.)
M.W.S.: Sir Knight (Noble Dame) You have found Him who is indeed the Word.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
I am Alpha and Omega the Beginning and the End which is and was and is to come.

The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O.

Now worthy Knights having found the Word I will affix it in its proper place.
(Done. All give Sign of Adoration. Soft Musick.)
M.W.S.: Glory unto Thee, Begetter, Transmitter, Transmuter!
(Sign of Adoration.)
All: We adore Thee, Evoe! We adore Thee, IAO!
M.W.S.: Glory unto Thee, who art hidden in the pyramid!
(Sign of Adoration.)
All: We adore Thee, Evoe! We adore Thee, IAO!
M.W.S.: Glory unto Thee, whom men have worshipped in all form!
(Sign of Adoration.)
All: We adore Thee, Evoe! We adore Thee, IAO!
M.W.S.: Iacchus, Pan, Khem, Amoun, Shiva, Priapus, Jahweh!
(Sign of Adoration.)
All: We adore Thee, Evoe! We adore Thee, IAO!
M.W.S.: Glory unto Thee, whose true name may not be spoken!
(Sign of Adoration.)
All: We adore Thee, Evoe! We adore Thee, IAO!
M.W.S.: Glory unto Thee, Master of Magick, Lord of Life!
(Sign of Adoration.)
All: We adore Thee, Evoe! We adore Thee, IAO!

The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O.

M.W.S.: Who art most mighty when Thou art most concealed!
(Sign of Adoration.)
All: We adore Thee, Evoe! We adore Thee, IAO!
M.W.S.: (Returns to throne.) I now command the Very Excellent and Perfect Grand Marshal to clothe
you in scarlet mantle, and to conduct you to the altar.
(Done.)
Kneel, Sir Knight, if you will.
(Done. M.W.S. draws sword, and strikes him on the left shoulder, right shoulder, and back; and on
forehead with hilt.)
By virtue of the power and authority in me vested, I hereby make, create, and constitute you, now and for
ever, a
KNIGHT OF THE PELICAN and EAGLE
and a SOVEREIGN PRINCE of the
HOLY ORDER OF ROSE CROIX of HEREDOM!
Rise, perfected and puissant prince, and receive the emblems of our Order.
H.P.: I present you with this rose.
I invest you with the apron, collar, and Jewel of our Order.
I gird you with this sacred sword.
(Done.)
G.M.: Lastly, I seal you with this seal of perfection.
(Done.)
Before you are again admitted to any Chapter, you must have caused this mark to be tattooed over your
heart, so that the scar which can never be effaced from your body may remind you of those oaths which
you have taken to us. They can never be effaced from your soul.

M.W.S.: (Rises.) I will now communicate to you the signs and words of this degree.
The first sign is called the Sign of Adoration. Clasp &c raising etc. Then &c.
The second sign or Sign of Freedom. Close &c or as some say &c and place &c.
This may be replaced by the Grand Cross sign of Heredom or Devotion, Clench &c.
The third sign is that of the G.S. or of P ... Cross &c.
This sign is always used on entering or leaving a chapter, and may be employed in greeting a brother.
Say A.F.O. He replies, P.P.V.
The forth sign or Sign of Truth. Raise &c and say A. Point downwards and say D.
The fifth sign or Sign of Silence. Place &c and say I. The other &c P.V.
The sixth sign or Sign of Love. Clasp &c and say T. As you &c he says R.
The seventh sign or Sign of I.N.R.I. Form &c, &c, &c.
The Grip is given by &c.
The Pass Word on the threshold of the Black Room, or Chamber of Death.
... and in this place the meaning &c. The Royal Omnific Password is ...
Very Excellent and Perfect G.M. you will now place our new Companion in Arms between the Pillars in
the West and proclaim him.
(Done.)
G.M.: Oyez! Oyez! Oyez! By command of the Most Wise Sovereign, I proclaim Sir (Dame) ... a Knight
(Dame) of the Pelican and Eagle, a perfect and puissant Sovereign Prince (Princess) of the Holy Order of
Rose Croix of Heredom.
M.W.S.: I invite him (her) accordingly to take his (her) seat beneath the Banner of Love in this Princely
Chapter.
(He takes his seat.)

Sir Knight (Noble Dame) I salute you from the Chair.
(M.W.S. applauds, H.P. applauds, G.M. applauds, 3 officers applaud. All applaud.)
(Triumphant Musick. M.W.S. and H.P.; G.M. and new Kt. (Dame); all leave Red Room, and march in
triumph around the Chamber of Death.)
Third Point
(Re-entering the Red Room, and the door being closed. M.W.S. presents the Cakes of Light to H.P., who
passes to new Kt. (Dame) and so on, ending with G.M., who presents to M.W.S. The cup then passes.)
M.W.S.: Consummatum est.
(The living circle, and dance. H.P. then advances and consumes the Word.58)
H.P.: Consummatum est.
(All resume thrones.)
Additional Note: The seven signs of this degree would seem to be variations of the signs used in the 18°
of Ancient and Accepted Masonry.
THE CLOSING OF A
SOVEREIGN CHAPTER OF ROSE CROIX
THE RED ROOM
M.W.S.: Very Excellent and Perfect Princes, assist me, if it be your pleasure, to close this ... Chapter of
the Holy Order of Rose Croix of Heredom.
(All rise.)
Holy Mother, what is the hour?
H.P.: It is the hour when the Lost Word is found; when the Sacred Tau has bloomed into the Mystic
Rose; when the Star called Wormwood is cast into the Abyss, and the Blazing Star has reappeared in all
its splendour; when our altars have been renewed, and the Light restored to our eyes.
The New Covenant is established; Do What Thou Wilt is the whole of the Law.
(... and musick.)59
M.W.S.: Let us then, my excellent Companions, observe this Law, which will enable us to erect a
pyramid in our hearts to the glory of Him, to whom belongeth Might, Majesty, Dominion, and Power;
who liveth and reigneth world without end.
(All make the 3 signs of Adoration, Heredom, and Pan.)
M.W.S.: Therefore, with my heel upon the head of the Great Serpent (He goes out, and turns facing red
room.) I declare this ... Chapter of Rose Croix duly closed in the name of Babalon and The Beast
conjoined, of the Secret Savior and of IAO.

One last thing I need to disagree with the guy above the long posting (t'was me that put up the last posting) he says that, a general love for God and providing a good service to the community.

In my old school (many moons ago) the second Head of the school was a mason. We had a huge modern artistic painting of a cross in the school on the 5-6 formers 'special' staircase, (so called as it was only for those 2 years) I stood looking at it for a while, I'm an artist I love art. He also stood beside it, he asked the4 question, what does that mean.... (talking about the cross) the other teacher there said ??you know what it is and means, he laughed.... haha.... no i don't know what it means that is not my belief.
If being a mason is another way to serve God then why did he not know, he's not a daft man he understands what it symbolises etc... but again I feel at the top of masonary you have illuminati, illumination is the final destination of a mason, illuminati are involved in rituals and likes which are not in accordance to Gods word, they involve in some occations human sacrafices and very weird stuff..........

Chewy that is a very long post--made me wonder exacty who O.T.O was.

A short search on the web let to oto-usa.org...

OTO was originally affiliated with European Masonry but is no longer a Masonic organization, though it shares some terminology and traditions with Masonry.

snip...

Most local bodies offer classes on magick, ritual, cabala, and other topics of interest to practicing Thelemites. Many bodies perform the EGC Gnostic Mass on a regular basis. Other common local activities include performance of group rituals (for example, the Rites of Eleusis), publication of a newsletter or journal, and cooperative activities with other local alternative-religious groups.

snip...

The Spiritual Father of Ordo Templi Orientis was Carl Kellner (Renatus, Sept. 1, 1851 - June 7, 1905), a wealthy Austrian paper chemist. Kellner was a student of Freemasonry, Rosicrucianism and Eastern mysticism, and traveled extensively in Europe, America and Asia Minor. During his travels, he claims to have come into contact with three Adepts (a Sufi, Soliman ben Aifa, and two Hindu Tantrics, Bhima Sena Pratapa of Lahore and Sri Mahatma Agamya Paramahamsa), and an organization called the Hermetic Brotherhood of Light.

What I found interesting is they no longer describe themselves as a masonic order. Though the founding members were masons they describe themselves as Thelemites an alternative religious group. So your post applying to O.T.O. does not apply to masonic ritual but an admitted alternative religious group whose founders happened to be masons.

I have never seen a ritual first hand, but threw DVD's and TV, I have seen hundreds.

Originally posted by Sparkie the Wondersnail

What I found interesting is they no longer describe themselves as a masonic order. Though the founding members were masons they describe themselves as Thelemites an alternative religious group. So your post applying to O.T.O. does not apply to masonic ritual but an admitted alternative religious group whose founders happened to be masons.

That is correct. The O.T.O. was originally a pseudo-Masonic order. It has always admitted women, so it was never a regular Masonic organization.

Aleister Crowley became Grand Master of O.T.O. in 1912, and re-wrote the rituals to reflect the religion of Thelema. Previously thereto, O.T.O. was like Masonry in that it admitted people of all religions. Since Crowley, the O.T.O. is a Thelemic religious and fraternal order.

The ceremony above is an early draft by Crowley. The O.T.O. continues to use a similar ritual today, although it has been revised several times.

Originally posted by Chewy82
(talking about the cross) the other teacher there said ??you know what it is and means, he laughed.... haha.... no i don't know what it means that is not my belief. If being a mason is another way to serve God then why did he not know

Freemasonry doesn't substitute a religion. Maybe he didn't know what the cross meant. Better to be a wise man and admit that you don't know, instead of being a loose lip fool who speaks as if he does know. Besides, even a genius ask questions

not personaly...because i am not a mason...but i met a man who used to be a higher level freemason and says he finaly decided to stop, because they often participated in conjuring demons and other forms of black magic.

I'm guessing in certain sects or at higher levels is where the satanism is taking place.

Originally posted by Jackie_brown
not personaly...because i am not a mason...but i met a man who used to be a higher level freemason and says he finaly decided to stop, because they often participated in conjuring demons and other forms of black magic.

If someone actually told this, he's yanking your chain. There are no "conjuring demons" in the "higher levels" of Freemasonry, nor is it required that Freemasons have to believe in demons, nor any other superstitious practices.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

[...]
Its definitely you. If this is your idea of bizarre, you need to get out more.

It's a little strange when you picture "normal" adults with normal jobs having dinner with their families and going off to the lodge to get medieval and pre-medieval in such and similar clubhousing performances.

[edit on 8-3-2006 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts


It's a little strange when you picture "normal" adults with normal jobs having dinner with their families and going off to the lodge to get medieval and pre-medieval in such and similar clubhousing performances.

Why is that strange? Ever been to a baptism or a Catholic mass, a Shakespeare play, or Wagner opera?

Originally posted by Masonic LightWhy is that strange? Ever been to a baptism or a Catholic mass, a Shakespeare play, or Wagner opera?

I find it strange.

Yes.

All of the above are different animals altogether. Personally I don't place any masonic goings on in the same category with a mass or baptism. Masonry isn't a religion anyway right? A play and opera are fiction right?

I find brain surgery a bit strange as well. Also, New Kids on the Block was strange. Should these be lumped in as well. Regardless, I find an orthodantist playing druid strange in this day and age. It's not a comment on "right" or "wrong".

I've done many things when I was younger that I now find strange. And that doesn't necessarily mean that I regret them. A lot of people find masonry strange. Some may find Shakespeare strange too. And so...?

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts
A lot of people find masonry strange. Some may find Shakespeare strange too. And so...?

Well, you're right, of course. Different strokes for different folks, as they say.

But "strange" doesn't equal "satanic", as in the thread's title. I think the problem is that some people around here have a very strange definition of "satanic" (here comes that "strange" thing again). To them , "satanic" seems to mean simply anything they don't agree with.

Of course, this isn't the real definition of "satanic", and there is nothing "satanic" in any Masonic ceremony.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Of course, this isn't the real definition of "satanic", and there is nothing "satanic" in any Masonic ceremony.

Not until the later stages. Of course.

Not so much "satanic" as "luciferian". Don't get me wrong ML. Then again I could be wrong. You could be right. Then again we could all be wrong.

ML is 32nd degree, so... when exactly does all the Satanic or Luciferian stuff start to manifest?

Oh, that would be the 33rd degree, right?

It's conveniently always a little "higher" than the highest degree-holder that we have available for comment, so that wannabe prophets can say "the majority of Masons are unwitting pawns".

Originally posted by Roark
ML is 32nd degree, so... when exactly does all the Satanic or Luciferian stuff start to manifest?

Oh, that would be the 33rd degree, right?

It's conveniently always a little "higher" than the highest degree-holder that we have available for comment, so that wannabe prophets can say "the majority of Masons are unwitting pawns".

And even that doesn't hold much water. Different versions of the 33° have been in print for over a hundred years, two of them being published by Pike himself for the benefit of Masonic students. Doesn't seem like much of a big deal to me.

All my life I have heard, dark is bad, light is good, stay on the side of the light, Jesus is the light of the world, the devil is the prince of darkness, etc.
Personally, I feel alot of that has to do with ethnocentric symbolism like the good cowboy white hate, pure as the driven snow, heart black as coal stuff. But, if Lucifer means light giver, or light bringer or whatever, then what are the chances that the term could be used in a positive manner?
I like masons. My Irish Protestant heritage is full of them, and they were good guys. My dad, being an atheist, couldn't carry on the tradition, but then he's a great guy too.
I find myself frowning at the antics of the mason bashers far more than at the masons themselves, anyway.

Originally posted by Chewy82
A reference, about trampling on the cross, this text (sorry for it's length) is taken from an e-book called the secret rituals of the O.T.O, which is the founders of the masons and the rituals in which they activley take part in.

That is from "The secret rituals of the O.T.O. by Francis King" You really should credit the author of a book you quote from.

As a side comment, I haven't been around much the last few months, has there been a relaxing of the long quote, external source, etc.. rules here?

and Wormwood is cast into the abyss?...Wormwood denotes what and Blazing Star denotes?...