There are or is no Satanic ritual in Freemasonry. It teaches the truth of only ONE God. It stands for the sacred truth of the "Christ" which has been taught from the beginning, and is in all monotheistic religions of this world (for those whom bother studying all five world religions). It teaches by using symbols, because one can only attain the truth of those symbols according to their own mental equivalence of the symbols. Therefore It is honored in every free country whom profess every religion in this world. Even many of the Catholic Popes were Grand Masters, as well as of the most powerful in the College of Cardinals today.

I have belonged for over thirty-three years and I know all levels. Defend Itself from the likes of those whom make claims otherwise is deemed foolish. We will go on spending over $2,000,000 dollars aday toward charity and doing good. Check out the Shrine hospitals, the Eye foundations, the youth heart foundations, the college scholarships, the speech clinics, among others given freely to the children whose parents cannot afford.

Secret? Go to your library and do a little research for a change. You will find all there is to know including the rituals.

You may spend your time in supporting or condeming the "School of Mysteries" that had the likes of Brothers Manly Palmer Hall, and Ernest Holmes instead? Good luck!

Originally posted by markusjharper
*snip*

Steiner had an incredible understanding - I truly have no words to express how advanced a soul he is!

*snip*

I wish I could speak more on what is coming but the followers of Baconion science, out post me.

Markusjharper

How do you explain an intelligent human fully agreeing with your first statement re Steiner - and yet totally disagreeing with your second (and many other) statement then?

And no need for insults. Its a fair question since you seem to think the two things are totally at different ends of the spectrum.

Just curious..

sanse_nz,

Before I answer your question, I'd like to ask you a couple questions:

What is the true nature behind your intent in asking such a question? Will the answer help benefit you or any other posters here in anyway?

And, do you beleive that this will move us forward (in learning from each other) in any way?

Originally posted by markusjharper
sanse_nz,

Before I answer your question, I'd like to ask you a couple questions:

What is the true nature behind your intent in asking such a question? Will the answer help benefit you or any other posters here in anyway?

And, do you beleive that this will move us forward (in learning from each other) in any way?

markusjharper,

my wish is to understand why I find it difficult to believe your theories - Steiner's teachings are magnificient, I agree with you there. So, I wonder, how can I agree with that and yet support Freemasonry so staunchly (even without BEING a Mason). They conflict, according to you, so I ask you if all you say is correct, how can a relatively open-minded person like me support BOTH. I don't see that as being a difficult question. You make things seem very "black and white". I guess I am trying to suggest they aren't....they're more "grey".

This question might help the posters to see that perhaps....just MAYBE....they aren't always right and that includes myself. Or....that MAYBE, there is room for movement in 'set in concrete' theories. We are all free to think what we choose, I know that, but learning to accept that sometimes things aren't always what you interpret them to be is a big lesson to learn And also, that HOW YOU WORD your theories in a post isn't always learner friendly.
Attitude begets attitude.


I'll await your answers..

I have no idea about satanic rituals. A friend of mine who I do trust in has stated that there is nothing satanic involved regarding the ceremonies

Originally posted by Masonic Student
Peace

I am afaid that you have hurd incorredtly. There are no satanic rituals in the either the first three degrees of masonry, nor in any of the degrees between 4 and 32 of the scottish rites.

In free masonry the only rituals are the degrees. Non of the ones I have witnessed, presideded over (all 3 of the first 3 degrees) or even read about, are in any way Satanic. By the way my coach and sponcer in the lodge was a baptis minister, and he told me the same answer before I joined. He was correct then and it is still the truth.

Lost in Midwest
he will have to submit a petision just like everybody else

.

I can't believe the amount of spelling and grammar errors I'm seeing on this site. Come on now, I get pulled up for less when submitting worthy news. Masonic Student, I've never heard of Norht Carolina. I am (afaid) that you have (hurd)maybe slang so minus a half a point. In the either the(good sentence structure) Presideded means what exactly? Sponcer/ baptis.

It looks like the dumbing down the population project is coming on nicely in America.

To lost in midwest. Petition is the word you're looking for I believe. The t is far enough away from the s. So I won't take a slip of the finger on the keyboard as an excuse. Do people check your posts before submitting? It only takes a few seconds.

I'm mad because when I submit news I get stupid u2u's voting no, stating I have bad grammar or spelling. This, judging by the standards shown here should be no problem. Maybe I write to eloquently for this site.

sanse_nz,

To be honest, you've kind of lost me there. Shall we keep this simple.... and if you have some research to offer, if you have anything of substantial esoteric study to provide, I'd love to see it.

Now, Satanism is very real and does occur in lodges and in churches. Am I now bashing Christians, also? The point is, the thread is a little odd; to ask if anyone has seen a satanic ritual... because of the ambiguous nature of Satanism and the fact that few would see such things and then likely post about it! If my post was so odd and confusing, then you must be under the assumption that one need stand in a lodge, to know that a lodge has been used for a satanic ceremony in past or present.

I have mentioned my background in several threads and I am quite aware of Masonry - and in fact have no opposition to Freemasonry. That is a misunderstanding. Although Rudolf Steiner was "mason awarded", unless one understands the deeper meaning behind the physical reality, these things are really unimportant. Steiner explains the deeper understanding behind of the forces of Lucifer/Sorat/Ahriman and how they are working in society, but these teachings are seemingly "missing" in modern understanding and as I have said before, the problem here is our deep decent into materialism and not Freemasonry.

Originally posted by markusjharper
sanse_nz,

To be honest, you've kind of lost me there. Shall we keep this simple.... and if you have some research to offer, if you have anything of substantial esoteric study to provide, I'd love to see it.

Now, Satanism is very real and does occur in lodges and in churches. Am I now bashing Christians, also? The point is, the thread is a little odd; to ask if anyone has seen a satanic ritual... because of the ambiguous nature of Satanism and the fact that few would see such things and then likely post about it! If my post was so odd and confusing, then you must be under the assumption that one need stand in a lodge, to know that a lodge has been used for a satanic ceremony in past or present.

I have mentioned my background in several threads and I am quite aware of Masonry - and in fact have no opposition to Freemasonry. That is a misunderstanding. Although Rudolf Steiner was "mason awarded", unless one understands the deeper meaning behind the physical reality, these things are really unimportant. Steiner explains the deeper understanding behind of the forces of Lucifer/Sorat/Ahriman and how they are working in society, but these teachings are seemingly "missing" in modern understanding and as I have said before, the problem here is our deep decent into materialism and not Freemasonry.

I too am well aware of the descent of morals etc on our society today, and that this is no doubt brought about by some satanic works. Personally though, I believe laying down judgement on a society of any kind is unfair.
It is the individuals within different societies that cause the problem. That goes for Freemasonry, Religion, Lions, Rotary clubs, charity organisations etc etc. To hold other people accountable seems mightily unjust to me.
I see so many bashing the Masons in general for something that perhaps some other individual did and the Masons who are out there doing so much good for people are left bruised and battered because of it.
Discuss the descent into materialism and I will probably agree with everything you might say - I see it every day, everywhere. But pointedly remarking on Freemasonry or any other group/society and calling it satanic as a whole is ignorance in my opinion.

Many Mason's on this board have admitted that there are always bad sheep in any group. What they are vigourously defending is there own knowledge of the good this society does collectively. A defense that is quite justified amidst the battering they are given by those that are not even involved.

Cheers, markus

Originally posted by MrDog
Maybe I write to eloquently for this site.

*Too*.

Originally posted by markusjharper
If my post was so odd and confusing, then you must be under the assumption that one need stand in a lodge, to know that a lodge has been used for a satanic ceremony in past or present.

Then, once again, how do you purport to "know" it? You keep saying that you "know" all sorts of things, but alas, you're silent on the source of your great wealth of knowledge.

C'mon Markus... I'm dying to know how you uncovered the truth that Hitler was a white Turk who collaborated with Freemasons to unleash the holocaust on Freemasons.

This stuff is even better than National Treasure!

Do a search on google and find out for yourself why don't you.

We are through for the moment!

Originally posted by markusjharper
We are through for the moment!

No we aren't. You've been given enough latitude but you keep asking without contributing to the topic.

Do you care to make a point?

Intrepid,

In past, you cared enough to remind me to not edit my post (after you) and now you tell me when I'm through, or not. As far as being done, you may have helped ruin my last thread by acting like a dic-tator; even though I meant no harm.

So please, spare me the tears about contributing to anything of the progressive nature and... congratulations:

Hail Caesar!

Originally posted by markusjharper
Intrepid,

In past, you cared enough to remind me to not edit my post (after you) and now you tell me when I'm through, or not. As far as being done, you may have helped ruin my last thread by acting like a dic-tator; even though I meant no harm.

So please, spare me the tears about contributing to anything of the progressive nature and... congratulations:

Hail Caesar!

I haven't had contact with you in ages, so SPARE ME.

You don't want to take counsel, you just want to take. Take it elsewhere imo.

Hail parasite.

Yet our contact is beside the point and it's in my nature to stand up to bullies. I ask the other posters here to notice how I've been warned for something, yet you can call me a "parasite" with no penalty for you. I guess just because your a Mod, the rules are somehow much different for you? Ok, there... Mr. Bush!

If your going to preach pal, better be more consistent in upholding the rules for yourself; else you have more to lose than I.

If someone told you that he had seen such a thing, what method would you use in order to ascertain his credibility?

Intrepid...

I think your signature says it all

"Never attempt to teach a person that refuses to learn."

I think this is a clear cut case of someone who clearly refuses.
I really like that line.....mind if I borrow it from time to time?!

Originally posted by markusjharper
Do a search on google and find out for yourself why don't you.

We are through for the moment!

The first google hit regarding Hitler's nationality at birth revealed this:

Adolf Hitler was born on April 20th 1889 in a small Austrian town called Braunau, near to the German border.

Funnily enough, so did the second, third and every other instance that I checked.

I'm beginning to suspect that this whole thing is the product of your fertile imagination.