Proof of true purpose of chemtrails?

a meteorologist sees scalar patterns in clouds

[ext]a meteorologist sees scalar patterns in cloudsI am a meteorologist at an affiliate in the Northwest who now uses scalar weapons signatures within the clouds to better my forecasting record. After closely watching high-resolution visible satellite imagery there is no question in my mind that these storms werent altered and guided to their final destinations. No doubt what so ever. I have come to a further conclusion; that the entire Earths weather had been digitized. There is not a flood, thunderstorm, cyclone, or drought that isnt allowed to happen. Control over global weather is complete. This way it is much easier to control portions, hurricanes/storms, within this system.[/ext]

you didn't follow the link, that'sjustweird, ?

all that non meteorologist stuff is there, except it was put there by a meteorologist.

a meteorologist sees scalar patterns in clouds

ol' billybob sez:

you SAW the PICTURES, right? in my universe, pictures are evidence

Well, here's some more "evidence", bubba.







Actually, there's a lot more evidence for Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Gay than there is for "chem-trails" and "HAARP weapons"

that's a pretty non-scientific argument, there, OTS.
i see new ideas in disinfo don't come easily to non-creative types.

'compare their theories to the easter bunny and santa clause. get's 'em every time, .' -disinfo handbook, pg. 33

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
ol' billybob sez:

you SAW the PICTURES, right? in my universe, pictures are evidence

Well, here's some more "evidence", bubba.
*pics*

Actually, there's a lot more evidence for Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Gay than there is for "chem-trails" and "HAARP weapons"

OTS do you have to apear so insulting and condescending to people when you address them? Why are you so obsessed about others when it comes to chemtrails and comparing them to people wearing tinfoilhats?

Originally posted by billybob
you didn't follow the link, that'sjustweird,

?

all that non meteorologist stuff is there, except it was put there by a meteorologist.

a meteorologist sees scalar patterns in clouds

That "meteorologist" has the credibility of a....I don't know....mouse. Why on God's green earth would I believe a word he's saying?
So you found one nutjob out of 1000000s, great job! But....who cares!?



en.wikipedia.org...

He has become one of the largest proponents of a theory that events such as major hurricanes are actually being created by Japanese scientists

www.journalnet.com...

Since Katrina, Stevens has been in newspapers across the country where he was quoted in an Associated Press story as saying the Yakuza Mafia used a Russian-made electromagnetic generator to cause Hurricane Katrina in a bid to avenge the atomic bomb attack on Hiroshima.

Yeah, I think you better find a new source....

After closely watching high-resolution visible satellite imagery there is no question in my mind that these storms weren’t altered and guided to their final destinations. No doubt what so ever. I have come to a further conclusion; that the entire Earth’s weather had been digitized

So the guy has been looking at digital images of the weather and now thinks the weather has been digitized.

I suppose we shouldn't laugh really, as they guy has serious mental health issues, which can only get worse as people pander to his delusions. Does anyone else think he looks a bit like Steve Martin?

billybob says:

that's a pretty non-scientific argument, there, OTS.

Why, you're right; so it is!

Showing pictures of one thing (like contrails or a fat guy with a beard) and using them as "evidence" of something else which faile to pass any test of common sense (like "chem-trails" or an immortal and omnipotent guy who flies around the world is a sleigh pulled by reindeer) is a very non-scientific argument!

billybob, that is exactly the point I am making.


[edit on 31-1-2006 by Off_The_Street]

lonegunman says:

OTS do you have to apear so insulting and condescending to people when you address them?

No, but that's the way it comes out, since that is the way I try and deny a silly and cruel hoax like "chem-trails."

Why are you so obsessed about others when it comes to chemtrails and comparing them to people wearing tinfoilhats?

Let me try to explain it to you.

Let's assume you're a military veteran who has a job as a firefighter, and you see people on the street carrying signs that say "impeach bush" or "Go Seattle -- Smash the Steelers" It probably wouldn't matter if you were a Republican from Pittsburgh, that probably wouldn't upset you all that much.

But if you saw a bunch of people marching with signs that said "(Burn out the Pigs!", "Firemen are Fags", or "%^*& America". You might get a bit more upset because those kind of insults hit closer to home.

Now if you want to believe in the Fluttering Fairies of the Moonlight or the Little Purple Spaceship Guys from Arcturus, knock youself out. I don't, but your harmless fantasies (assuming you do believe them) are certainly no skin off my nose.

However, as an engineer who works for the largest aircraft manufacturer in the world. I take strong exception to people who insult my country, company, industry, and profession by claiming we're involved in a plot to sicken or kill people or do anything which will hurt them.

The fact that the entire "chem-trail" hoax is based on stupid pseudo-science by people who haven't a clue about the way the world works is only a part of it.

I mean, I assume you know how thermals work, right? Almost every phenomenon in the atmosphere can be explained in terms of thermals, if you think about it.

Finally, here on ATS, our motto is "Deny Ignorance". If you're interested in really making a dent in the atrocious ignorance of modern-day Americans who prefer astrology to astronomy or who would rather cut-and-paste silliness to actually doing research or (gasp!) taking a course in meteorology, then I invite you to join me.

And you can do it your way, and I'll do it mine.

p.s. Actually, I could probably make a better case for someone wearing a tin-foil hat than for someone who believes in "chem-trails" -- although I wouldn't want to try.

[edit on 31-1-2006 by Off_The_Street]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

That "meteorologist" has the credibility of a....I don't know....mouse. Why on God's green earth would I believe a word he's saying?
So you found one nutjob out of 1000000s, great job! But....who cares!?

But that's just it - to the Chemtrail crowd he has more credibility than all the atmospheric scientists, meteorologists, climatologists and, for that matter, TV weathermen, in the world!

All of them - except Stevens - are either stupid, thick no-nothings or else are in on the 'Great Big Conspiracy'. Must be, otherwise why can't they see or admit what's happening?

Ironically, of course - and getting back to the original subject matter - contrails may well be affecting global climate. And not in a positive way....

well, of course, you could say working for government weather institutions, or for chemtrail spraying manufacturers qualifies you to deride the general populace for their 'ignorance', but i would say the opposite is true.
especially nowadays, when nearly everything is a lie supported by the 'establishment'.

stevens may be crazy, or he may be, like steven jones, one of the few willing to stand up to the what was labelled in the movie, 'network', the 'primal forces of nature'.

i said i wasn't even gonna get into this again. OOPS!

so, before i leave this thread for good....

the main gatekeepers of this topic are howard, OTS, father luke duke, and a few others. you will not be able to discuss this topic without at least ONE of them coming to deride you for your 'ignorance', or if your lucky, they will gently explain to you that you're not seeing what you're seeing. go back and check through ALL the chemtrail threads. the proof is in the pudding.

don't believe 'them'! chemtrails are real.

Have I derided anyone? I don't believe in chemtrails, but I'm also not deriding and attacking anyone. Just asking questions that make sense and trying to get something other than "They look different." or "I know they're chemtrails."

Originally posted by Essan

getting back to the original subject matter - contrails may well be affecting global climate. And not in a positive way....

Thank you Essan... this was my intention when I started this thread, to say that perhaps CONTRAILS were intentionally being used to alter the weather.

So far I have only seen persuasive arguments against this. The arguments being made for this are hard to accept when the opinions of a man who believes the Japanese Mafia created Hurricane Katrina are put forth as "proof".

So what we need to do then is forget chemtrails and scalar weapons and mad ex-weathermen and the like - plenty of discussion about them elsewhere.

Instead, we should use this thread to concentrate on the following:-

a) Is there evidence for an increase in high level clouds?
b) If so, could this have been caused by aircraft activity (ie contrails)?
c) Could such activity be deliberate? Or is it an unintentional effect of increased air travel?
d) What effect would this have on climate - both regional and global?

The number of avid deniers in this forum is funny and sad to me. People don't typically waste their time trying to disprove something unless there's benefit at some point. It's just human nature. You know who I mean!

Originally posted by Zaphod58
Have I derided anyone? I don't believe in chemtrails, but I'm also not deriding and attacking anyone. Just asking questions that make sense and trying to get something other than "They look different." or "I know they're chemtrails."

I have answered you a few times. It will be picked apart by either Howard, OTS,or FLD. Zaphod and Esson are most of the time not using the same tactics as the previously mentioned names, the others though will try and subtly put you down and then use social stigmas on you to try and make you feel like you are some seperate loony from the rest and this just isnt cool.

One of the biggest differences Zap (btw what does Zaphod58 mean?) is the way they look and the way they act and evolve. Another thing that really catches the eye of someone like myself, after spending more time than most whaching thesky for favorite airplanes, is the altitude. I cant tell the difference between 26K Ft. and 30K, but when a contrail gets formed at 10-18K you can tell, until you see this happen, you have no business trying to tell someone they are seeing vapour trails.

Another big difference is seeing them formed on and very near the horizon, you just dont see them that far away.

Distance to the Horizon

If an aircraft flies at 30,000, the horizon as it appears to the people on the aircraft (if they could see it) is 250 miles away.

Although people on aircraft have much less ground haze around them, their view of the horizon is also clouded by haze because they must look through the ground haze at the horizon.
From The Ground

If the people on the aircraft have their horizon at 250 miles then the people on the ground who see the aircraft near the horizon are seeing an object that is 250 miles away.

That was from an outside source, a military jet engineer whom is also a performance motorycle enthusiast (thats how I found his web-site) and aircraft buff. If you have never seen it and science ignores it, how do I explain it to you? Its kind of like describing color to someone born blind. I do know they have stopped spraying in my neck of the woods from fall to the present. Just normal ole contrails. They never have sprayed up here where I live in the summer. Then I get people that think I dont understand clouds and weather phenomenon.

Let the flaming begin.


[edit on 4-2-2006 by LoneGunMan]

And it's hard for me to believe when people say "Look! This is a chemtrail!" and post a picture of something I see here all the time. We get *A* contrail a year out here, if we're lucky, and the conditions are right. But yet we get the EXACT SAME THING as people say a chemtrail is. No grids, no "spraying" nothing like that.

If you feel like I've degraded you, or insulted you for your belief then I'm sorry, I didn't do it intentionally. I DON'T believe, but that doesn't mean you're wrong. It just means that I would like to see something more concrete than "Here's a chemtrail" and another picture of a cloud that I see here where there is nothing suspicious going on.

BTW it's Zaphod for Zaphod Beeblebrox from Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy. I tried to sign up for a site and it was taken so I tacked on the 58 to make it unique and I kinda stuck with it since then.

If I had not seen them in 1999, I would never have believed it either. I respect you for that, I dont have respect for anyone that would be gullible enough to believe the logistics of such an operation could be happening from information gathered on the net.

It is part of my job to recognize when something is out of place or not quite right. Its called scene size up, and if you dont train yourself to do it right, you will risk your life and your brothers.

Im willing to bet with all the wonderful technologies we have now one could easily be made into a disinformation agent and not even know it. Thats how it all really works in the wonderful world of compartmentalization. Group A doesnt know about group B but group B knows about group A all the way to the letter Z.

Saying there is no spraying campaign taking place is like saying most of those eighteen wheelers out there on the highways dont have 18 tires on them. Oh you can talk about this scientist and that scientist with pretty flow charts and power point presentations said it is only atmospheric and nothing but atmospheric but I have seen planes close to the same altitudes in the same weather range(temp, humidity, wind etc) doing different things. I have seen them turn and have fragmented contrails as if they were turning something on and off and I have seen the very same planes at that same altitude not drop one contrail.

The problem with scientists......they have only a limited box in which to operate, fortunately some do go outside this perimeter and do real scientific studies.

Anyways....I will let some of the debunksters continue to post their pretty flow charts and numerical data and enjoy the complexities of their mad scientist mind.

Heres an asprin *

Originally posted by billybob
that's a pretty non-scientific argument, there, OTS.
i see new ideas in disinfo don't come easily to non-creative types.

'compare their theories to the easter bunny and santa clause. get's 'em every time,

.' -disinfo handbook, pg. 33

Sorry,,,but that was funny and right on target(truth)
Touche

Originally posted by Zaphod58
If you feel like I've degraded you, or insulted you for your belief then I'm sorry, I didn't do it intentionally. I DON'T believe, but that doesn't mean you're wrong. It just means that I would like to see something more concrete than "Here's a chemtrail" and another picture of a cloud that I see here where there is nothing suspicious going on.

BTW it's Zaphod for Zaphod Beeblebrox from Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy. I tried to sign up for a site and it was taken so I tacked on the 58 to make it unique and I kinda stuck with it since then.

in the movie, they made zaphod really jeckyll and hyde-ish. i didn't get that from the book. he seemed more like a nice-evil in the book.
anyway...
i made a pretty bold statement. that is because it is something i witnessed.
chemtrails are thin like paper. i saw two being laid down from a passenger jet(i was a passenger).

it was over northern new brunswick.

thin, like paper. not like normal contrails, which billow out as wide up and down as they do side to side.

it is weather modification, i'm pretty sure. none of the 'my jello won't set', or, 'i'm coughing' stuff for me. more like, 'we've ruined mankind's chances of survival with rampant corporatism, let's play with chemicals and try and set the biosphere back to normal'.