What you May Conjure with Magic?

Originally posted by toraylin
Since I have joined this site I have met some pretty amazing people who transcend what it is to be normal.Such as seriouslyone.How do you know of the word grok?.It means to totaly grasp something to the extreme or to the likes of that right?

A friend of mine told me of that word under the impression that he himself made it up.This is interesting.

Anyway when it comes to learning and abilities I am very new to the game.
Having a good understanding of alot of different things can contradict just about every thought you have.

In many cases I find myself too focused on the world at hand,rather then keeping in check how I feel and conduct myself with others.

I must keep a close eye on my conduct.Having gone far into that which most dont come back from.On that too I am and always will be somewhat damned for my studies and places within my own psychee that I have gone.I am young and already have to fight for the salvation or damnation of my soul.

A dear friend of mine on this site will not talk to me now for how I have been lately,delving into the different areas of the paranormal goes against what she stands for.I dunno.We all have the ability to do much or do little.
good or bad.The reasons behind peoples different affiliations and beliefs are really unknown to me.Depends on what you see or take in i guess.There are many here who know more than I..



[edit on 25-1-2006 by toraylin]

I felt sad when I read that you stated that you will always be somewhat damned, and you have to fight for the salvation and damnation of your soul. I know everyone has their own personal beliefs. But I don't think you have to fight anything. I'm not really sure how you feel about God, and I don't believe in the Devil. I just think that feeling damned, evil or the likewise is just being disconnected from God.

I get caught up in the world too! One of my downfalls. I get frustrated trying to get into a world and cannot physically see. Things don't come easy for me, I really have to work to get what I want.

I have read many of your posts, and I like them. I think you are down to earth and a good person.

-AlphaC

With the magic the pic in your post suggests? Nothing but negative stuff. But it isn't the 'magic' that you conjure that does it. It's YOU. Your much better off learning how to take care of yourself and others via posative ways.
Anything you do for greed, power, control or ego will come back and bite you in the but.

(Are you physicaly feeling ok and well? Aches and pains, tired, bad dreams etc?)

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by Enyalius
if that is the case then:
1. the person in question has a lot to learn towards their ego. else you would have learned that material wealth is pretty much useless and that there is something much more worthy.

Well IMHO that is said by many who only claim to be able to do magick as an explanation for why they are not rich.

But I do agree in part, there are better things to be doing than trying for money. BUT it's not something that should never be done. Say you wish to do the Abramelin operation (it takes 6 months) by the book but you just can't afford to take the time off work. In this case there should be no problem doing a ritual for money so you can do it. (but I'd probably do a ritual with the intent of "allowing me to preform the Abramelin operation"... but that could backfire also.. I might get fired and end up with plenty of time on my hands

)

2. the individual has no idea how to perform "magick", use the universal energies. else the individual would have used proper wording to eliminate such extreme possibilities from happening.

That still might not help. There is just no way you can control how it might manifest 100% of the time. That's why divination is necessary.

an the last part i agree. you should study a lot of theory before you start putting things into practice. it's not unusual that it takes a dedicated magus to spend 1-2 years full time of theoretic studying. even longer if you lack time to dedicate to the study.

A lot of armchair reading then A TON of practice of just the basics. In fact you should start the basics the same time you start studying. Many people a surprised about just how weak their Will really is. Just doing some basic rituals daily without slaking off is hard when your starting.

When you start doing "magick" or general work on yourself which induces personal growth to enlightentment you will learn at one stage about material needs. People are way to dependend on them.

Personally I would NEVER do a ritual to gain money out of the bleu, so the speak. It only gives you once in a time temporal influx on income. What if you need money the next time? You'll become to depending on magick instead of looking for your own strenghts. This is why I casted a ritual with the phrase "I want a job that suits me and my talents and would give me an abundance of money". Within 3 weeks I got a job offer and I'm working there for 2 months now. What is the difference? I generated a fixed income of money and I'm capable of growing further in new situations as a human being.

Then again I am a bit contradicting myself there. With my last job there were times I was a bit short on money end of the month. And the people at work did a poule for football matches. I participated by using my clairvoyance and made sure I got the money. But only did it when truly needed. These days I got an abundance

It's also true you can never be 100% sure about the outcome. I mean...there are so many variables to consider. However it is possible to reduce threats and misfortune and backfiring by being more accurate and more experienced. You can reduce the threat to at least 85% accuracy.

I also agree that it is important to do a lot of armchair studying and do basic daily rituals like the LBPR or the MPR and similar things. However people should not do the move advanced things untill after a long time of studying.

What is Occult. It is a very wide catch-all phrase just as Spirituality and New-Age. The occult allows you to study ancient sciences like Alchemy, astrology, thelema which later became algebra. You'll delve into ancient mysticism like the Jewish Kaballah en it's tree of life and the Sephiroth within. You'll study the basics of Kundalini, Tantrism and various religions from the western and the eastern part of the world. You'll also do a lot of psychological work on yourself, which a lot of people do (unknowingly) who want to grow spiritually and enlightent. Next to that, depending on the individual, you can also study many different forms of magick and life philosofies not to many art forms like painting/woodcutting/knitting and whatever. I simply say...The Occult = Life.

As for LadyAngela...the pic is negative? Do you know what you're talking about? Have you even delved into the symbolism within the picture and it's true meanings? I hear pre-conceptional(not sure this is the correct way of saying seeing i'm not english) ideas here with no solid foundation. I can't blame you. Many people have similar ideas because they see a "demon" so it is automatically negative. But I suggest you to look deeper into the symbolic meanings represented within the image. As for the rest you said...yup. You're the one responsible for everything you think and do so stop blaming God or Magick or Demons for your own weak will. "God" didn't gave you Free Will for a reason.

[edit on 29-1-2006 by Enyalius]

I'm not talking about what the picture MEANS. It doesn't matter. It is what it REPRESENTS. If the meaning itself were important, I wouldn't have read a post asking what you can do. I would have read a post with some background and meet to it - something substancial and particular in it's question. To me, that pic told me that you are not looking to learn about and work with the enrgy, you are looking to manipulate and control it. It tells me your motive is not a good one.

(Are you physicaly feeling ok and well? Aches and pains, tired, bad dreams etc?)

Are you speaking to me? I feel great and well, thank you for asking.
There was a valid reason for this thread and if you do not care for it, then why waste your time with all this rhetoric?

Originally posted by Enyalius
Personally I would NEVER do a ritual to gain money out of the blue, so the speak. It only gives you once in a time temporal influx on income. What if you need money the next time? You'll become to depending on magick instead of looking for your own strenghts. This is why I casted a ritual with the phrase "I want a job that suits me and my talents and would give me an abundance of money". Within 3 weeks I got a job offer and I'm working there for 2 months now. What is the difference? I generated a fixed income of money and I'm capable of growing further in new situations as a human being.

I feel the same way, I use Magick for self-help so to speak. You cast your intent to the universe hoping it understands and helps you. You then have to do a physical action like Enyalius said you then look for that job oppertunity, instead of asking for money. I help my mind and body, (I have been smoke free for the first time in 30 years because of Reiki) I enlighten my spirit, all through ritual. I have learned that I want less material things and be more with nature.

Magick is for the good of the self, to help the self to help others..

I wouldnt be a trying to save lives/property as a First Responder if I was doing something spiritually negative.

[edit on 29-1-2006 by LoneGunMan]

Originally posted by AngelaLadyS
I'm not talking about what the picture MEANS. It doesn't matter. It is what it REPRESENTS. If the meaning itself were important, I wouldn't have read a post asking what you can do. I would have read a post with some background and meet to it - something substancial and particular in it's question. To me, that pic told me that you are not looking to learn about and work with the enrgy, you are looking to manipulate and control it. It tells me your motive is not a good one.

What you're saying is double isn't it. The meaning of the picture is important. People who take time to look at it will see it's true meanings. As I've explained 1 very small part of it earllier in this thread. About the pole and the snakes coiling around it. Which is actually a symbolic representation of Tantrism and the Chakra's and Kundalini. That isn't evil nor negative. These methods are used by Yogi's and Monks as well who work to attain enlightentment.

The representation of the image is something that has no meaning. It is a subjective opinion of someone. And in most cases a shallow misguided opinion at that. It's funny how quickly people come to conclusions by first impressions without having a clue of what it is actually about. Not just this image, but at many things in life. Because people only look at the surface they see "evil" and miss out on so much good that lays underneath. It's a shame.

@Lonegunman
Magick, working with energy whatever you want to call it. It's only a tool to help in moments of need. Most other times you need to rely on your own skills.

In general
There are people who use Reiki and others use a healing magick spell. So what. It's both the same. Only people who have no clue about it will call Energy Work and Magick different. Just because something has a different name doesn't make it different. Heck even Church uses magick and rituals and people don't even see it.

And to get back on track I'll share Eliphas interpetation of his Baphomet. That it is related with the Greek god Pan with the Roman feminine counterpart Faunus and the Celtic god The Green Man.

Source from Wikipedia, but they explain it well.

Eliphas Levi and Baphomet
A much more recent and well known depiction shows Baphomet in the form of a winged humanoid goat with a pair of breasts and a torch on his head between his horns. This image comes from Eliphas Lévi's 1854 Dogme et rituel de la haute magie (in English known as Transcendental Magic). Lévi considered the Baphomet to be a depiction of the absolute in symbolic form. Lévi on the symbolism of his drawing:

"The goat on the frontispiece carries the sign of the pentagram on the forehead, with one point at the top, a symbol of light, his two hands forming the sign of hermetism, the one pointing up to the white moon of Chesed, the other pointing down to the black one of Geburah. This sign expresses the perfect harmony of mercy with justice. His one arm is female, the other male like the ones of the androgyn of Khunrath, the attributes of which we had to unite with those of our goat because he is one and the same symbol. The flame of intelligence shining between his horns is the magic light of the universal balance, the image of the soul elevated above matter, as the flame, whilst being tied to matter, shines above it. The ugly beast's head expresses the horror of the sinner, whose materially acting, solely reponsible part has to bear the punishment exclusively; because the soul is insensitive according to its nature and can only suffer when it materializes. The rod standing instead of genitals symbolizes eternal life, the body covered with scales the water, the semi- circle above it the atmosphere, the feathers following above the volatile. Humanity is represented by the two breasts and the androgyn arms of this sphinx of the occult sciences."
Levi called his image “the Baphomet of Mendes.” Levi combined the images of the Tarot Devil card and the he-goat worshipped in the city of Mendes in Ancient Egypt. It is unclear whether the Ancient Egyptian women had intercourse with the goat during religious rites for fertility, but the Catholic Church claimed this and it is possible that this is where the notion that the Devil had intercourse with his witches came from. The goat (sometimes a ram was used) was the master of fertility and was celebrated as “copulator in Anep and inseminator in the district of Mendes,” where women were blessed with children. During rituals, women danced naked before the image. The Order of Nine Angles claims another perspective to Baphomet.

Criticism of Levi's interpretation
Lévi's depiction, for all its fame, is not particularly authentic to the historical description from the Templar trials, although it is akin to the gargoyles found on several Templar (and non Templar) churches— or Viollet-le-Duc's vivid gargoyles added to Notre Dame de Paris about the same time as Lévi's illustration.

Critics argue that Levi and other writers, such as Albert Pike, were attempting to to use the false accusations against the Templars to fabricate from the name Baphomet a veritable Deity of Hedonism and Rebellion against a Christian establishment. Levi's now-familiar image shown here as a "Sabbatic Goat" may have partially derived from the 18th-19th century Spanish artist Francisco Goya, who painted a "Witch's Sabbath" in 1800 in which a group of seated women were offering their dead infant children to a seated goat. Levi also incorrectly identified Baphomet with the Goat of Mendes, an ancient Egyptian god whose name should more properly be translated as "Harpocrates, the Ram of Mendes," a sheep-god who was the Creator and tutelary deity of his region (the city of Mendes). Harpocrates was a granter of fertility, but he was not associated with debauch or lust -- and, most important from the standpoint of this investigation into mythography, in animal-form, he was a ram, not a buck goat.

Next Quote.

The belief in Baphomet still exists among some occultists. They hold the idol of the Templars was really the god of the witches deriving from the nature god Pan. In the 19th. century the Austrian Orientalist Baron Joseph von Hammer-Purgstal discovered an inscription on a coffer in Burgandy which he claimed indicated the Baphomet came from the Greek words meaning "Baptism of Metis (Wisdom)." This seemed to exalt Metis or Baphomet as the true divinity.

Pan is the God of Shepherds, Flocks and Fornication. What does that tell you about the ancient Greek countryfolk then?

The son of Hermes, and possibly a goat, Pan was one of the Dionysus drinking crowd, with all the leering lusty living this entailed. Woodland glades. nymphs. Orgies. Flutes. That sort of thing. You get the picture.

As a God with his hooves firmly placed on the ground, Pan was (and still is) worshipped as a potent deity of fertility and earthiness.

He was known as Faunus by the faunicating Romans. In time, his carefree lifestyle began to upset the early Christians, who saw his earthy temptations as a manifestation of the Devil. Who would've thought that the horny old goat would become the blueprint for Satan, cloven hooves, horns and all?

-----

The Green Man

You may have seen his face molded from clay or chiseled in stone, or nowadays on the cover of many books about paganism or Celtic myths. His image is crafted in negative space; it springs from the foliage that represents his origins. He is known by several names to students of mythology and pagans alike, Jack-in-the-Green, Green George, and Green Jack, being just a few. He is best known, however, by the simple title: The Green Man.

The Green Man is a legendary pagan deity; long ago he roamed the woodlands of the British Isles and other parts of Europe. He represents the spirits of all things wild in nature and is believed to have the power to make the rain fall. In various spring festivals an image of the Green Man is sometimes dunked in a river or lake to ensure that there will be enough rain to make the pastures and meadows green, and to ensure that the crops will flourish.

Aside from what is mentioned above there are few specifics in the mythology of the Green Man. He is, perhaps, more archetype than anything else, acting as the personification of nature, of spring, and of renewal; as such, we find elements of him in many mythologies from around the world.

In early societies the earth was regarded as the Mother (Goddess), and the divinity responsible for the presence of humans. This creator Goddess, looking on with troubled countenance at her creations, gave birth to a (savior) son without the (direct) assistance of a consort. (We see this in the tales of Mary and the birth of Christ, though the Goddess has now become a mortal, a creator God taking her former place.)

In these myths the son is the image of the divine on earth, in nature, and he becomes associated, often, with a tree. For Christ it was the Cross on which he lost his life. For Odin, it was the tree of knowledge. For the Green Man it is the tree of the woodlands. The last prevailing theme in these myths is the need for a sacrifice in order to renew the cycle of life. We see this theme in Christ's crucifixion, in the dismemberment of Osiris by his brother Set, and in the battle of the Holly King and the Summer King. The theme crosses even into our literature, in such stories as Sir Gawain and the Green Knight where the Green Knight is banished in the winter, only to be at full strength when Gawain comes to battle him once the world has thawed.

As archetype rather than specific deity, the image of the Green Man becomes a universal symbol for spring, for the renewed cycle of life, from death (winter) to rebirth (spring).

and to get back on Metis

Metis: The first wife of zeus. She was the Goddess of Wisdom and Zeus was warned that any resulting children would be much smarter than him.

Now any sensible God would have abstained from sex, but Zeus was so turned on by her shape-shifting abilities that he couldn't resist. So when she became pregnant he remembered the prophecy andetis whole - but himself gave birth to Athena, Goddess of Wisdom, making him sadder but wiser.

One or two sources claim that Metis is also the mother of Porus.

[edit on 30-1-2006 by Enyalius]

Originally posted by siriuslyone

There was a valid reason for this thread and if you do not care for it, then why waste your time with all this rhetoric?

It's not that I don't care for your thread. I am interested. But I think everyone deserves an honest answer. I didn't see a point for the thread other than what I already mentioned, but let me go re-read the origonal post... I could be wrong.

I see the problem. You typed ... What you May Conjure with Magic?
I took that as the question ... what CAN YOU conjure with Magic. (so many foreigners that can't speak english use those programs to convert... it leaves the sentances a bit messed up). Then, the picture and below that the words are in a box. I am assuming you pulled that from another site. I only wanted YOUR words, not to read an artical. (Very rarely do I stop and read something copy/paisted that is more than a few sentances. I'm more interested in the poeples opinions and thoughts than an artical. So, I always read the post but just skip by the articals)

So - I saw a question and a pic. Those words + that pic... I'd have to stand by my initial thoughts - it don't look good.

Still - I haven't read that artical or what ever it was. I only want your words and thoughts. That's the important thing. Is there some particualr idea or thought you wanted to convey by posting the words in the box below the pic? I'm interested in knowing if that idea or thought changes the idea of the post and in what way.

I'll come back this evening just to check

I should tell you...
I'm not trying to be silly or assinine or ???
The reason I'm so interested in YOUR take and not someone elses is because it changes the entire meaning and needed responce. That don't make alot of snese probably. Let me just give an example.
Say I give you a pretty profound booklet. It's crammed with meaning and info. If you read it last year your would have gotten ABCDE out of it. But if you read it again 6 months ago, the information you precieved and that sttod out in your mind more would have been FGHIJ. Again, you read the same book today - today, because you have grown in understanding and have been in contact with new ideas etc, you would gain the knowledge or ideas of HIJKL. Does this make any sense or Am I the only one that will understand this?
(I've got to leave for work NOW - I can't stay and proof read)

Quickly... I'm kind of learned in most areas of this nature. I dabbled in the very good and the very bad (not that the words good and bad are the best to use, but you know what I mean). I am also a Master Reiki practioner and know about symbolic representation. But if YOU, the poster, only saw the picture as most people do.... don't you agree that the meaning of the post would be greatly different than what your trying to relay here - in posts that follow?
The difference between energy work and magic is the persons thoughts behind it. It's all using energy and intent. But usualy the people who are looking for magic are looking for something other than learning and growing spiritualy and working with the enrgy and intent for a higher purpose for not only themselves, but for others and often for the sake of others first.
Kind of like a weed. Here in Missouri, a golden rod is a weed. Is grows wild and causes us to sneeze. If we see it in our yards we pull it out and get rid of it. But in another place, it is a pretty yellow flower that they plant - on purpos even! So the flower is the same, but the eye of the beholder changes it's meaning from a beautiful flower to a weed. Understand the particular point I'm trying to make? The reason I'm not letting go of this point, is because the magic mot people look for is hinged on these concepts that many people believe to be irrelevant. There are a few things you have to grow into understanding by becomeing aware of them. And I can tell you everything, but until you are ready, the same words will mean nothing. Honest - I am trying to be helpful to you and to anyone who reads these kinds of threads. I wish I could have a class.
But as you read my words, know that they are spoken with kindness and patience and teaching, not sarcasm or trying to put you down or anything of that nture.

First off no need to look down by saying that some are ready and others aren't. I know you aren't doing it, because I do the same when talking to people who aren't far in their development. Luckily I don't take things personal else my ego would start a flame here regarding the objective interpetation that you think that I'm not developed enough to understand what you're saying

Luckily I am also way ahead of most people. I too have a master degree in Reiki (not that man given certificates hold any value but still), I've dabbled into the paranormal for many years followed by studying many religions and spirituality and then moved into magick seeing it was the most logical follow up for myself. So that might give you an insight into which areas I've been studying for the past...oh 10-14 years.

First part I'd like to react to is the following quote.

Originally posted by AngelaLadyS
The difference between energy work and magic is the persons thoughts behind it. It's all using energy and intent. But usualy the people who are looking for magic are looking for something other than learning and growing spiritualy and working with the enrgy and intent for a higher purpose for not only themselves, but for others and often for the sake of others first.

There is no difference and there is no difference in mindset either. We're all using the same energies and intentions. And magick and the occult is more aimed towards self exploration and self growth and understanding and spirituality then you might think. It's simple generalisation what is going on here, nothing from personal experience in this area is shown. I'm not blaming, just stating what is going on without giving an opinion about what is going on. The mindset can not be related to any concept (reiki, magick, energetic workings) because it is different per individual.

The next is

The reason I'm not letting go of this point, is because the magic mot people look for is hinged on these concepts that many people believe to be irrelevant.

You're right that a lot of people look for this in magick. But they are just fools and young ones who are influenced by Harry Potter, Gandalf and that sort of thing. They want to try it because it looks "cool" and want to impress others. It's nice, but that's not how Magick truly is, Potter and Gandalf are fiction after all. A miss conception from many. But the people who truly follow the teachings and practices are not the same as the people you describe. Once more people always judge something by what a few (misguided) students of the arts do wrong instead of looking at what the masters of said practices do.

It is the same as with alchemy. People who still believe that base metal can be transformed into gold. These basic shallow views are hold by many who have little to no insight in what alchemy truly is. Because of that they find alchemy "Stupid". It is used to seperate the treu dedicated practitioners from the fools who are looking for material wealth and riches. Another way it isn't easy to understand what is going on in the occult is due to the symbolism which is used to speak with. The base metal refers to the basic soul which is being transformed into the Golden enlightent soul through the 9 steps of the alchemic Great Works.

As for "Good" and "Evil". I'm well aware of it's flawed duality and what it means. I don't say Good and Evil is only in the eye of the beholder because I like to sound insightfull, but because it's true. If you're interested in reading more of my personal opinions about good vs evil you can look Here and follow my other online pseudonym Sabazel within that 1 thread. Seeing you like to see other peoples opinions i'm sure you find it interesting enough.

[edit on 30-1-2006 by Enyalius]

It is hard for most people to understand Magick, I think it has been not been understood because if the masses could help themselves then they would not need the Church/Government. So lots of disinformation has been made about it. What really amazes me is that people that are into the metephysics, like Rieki and still do not understand that Magick is the same thing.

To me High Magick, is but greatly focused energy, just like Rieki but more complex, to help raise the odds that the universe will understand your intent. The Young Goth crowd has really misunderstood Magick, they think it is dark like them. The ones that get into the Magick for the wrong reasons dont stay in it long. I am a 43 year old man that got into it because of some things that I cannot deny that happened with some Tarrot readings I had with a Witch. I then looked into the Craft for the first time with an open mind, and found that it was like a homecoming. It was my spiritual beliefs, and all the spiritual freedom I needed to express what I feel and believe, not someone elses view.

[edit on 30-1-2006 by LoneGunMan]

Don't get me started on pubelescent goths who think they know best and think the entire world is against them boo-#ing-hoo. Get a reality check. At times like these I wish I was allowed to use physical force to beat some sense into them. Especially when it comes to energetic workings, no matter if it is reiki/magick or something else. I informed the last idiot goth about what it ment when they used their own blood for their rituals. They didn't even study the basics and already thought they could do the advanced stuff. Well I tried to explain but they did not listen. Seeing everyone is responsible for their own actions...well they #ed their lives up for real now.

Wanna bet that they'll be on tv in 20 years saying "Well the occult is evil because we did it 20 years ago for x amount of time and this is what happened". No #, but unfortunately the entire crowd that studies occult is being discredited because of people like that. Same for starting "witches" that went back to christianity and years later talk about how "evil" witchcraft truly is. And the religious freaks love that and use it to their advantage.

It truly furiates me with this. People make mistakes and then blame something else instead of themselves. God wanted it this way...oh shut up. No it was satan or a demon...get real. It's you and no one else.

I'll stop this rant now before I get really worked up. Friggin Depressive idiots.

Is physically beating sense into those who don't share your views one of the things you have learned in your 10+ years of study? That sounds like some pretty base magic to me. Why not just curse or hex them? If you are learned in sorcery, that would seem like a more apt route to take. I know little of these things, but I do know someone who has cooked up a batch of the 'lapsis excellis' or 'philosopher's stone', or whatever it's called, and the process proceeded just as depicted in his recipe. The description of the changes and end product was very interesting. Unfortunately, rather than gold being what was created, it was one of the ingredients he had to supply.
And as far as Pan goes, I think he was just misunderstood, and the victim of a bunch of jealous gossipy contemporaries. They likely wished they were climbing mountains, and all that other stuff Pan seemed to be so good at.

I won't beat them. Even though I felt the need to. There is a difference

If they wanted to do the same thing while being properly informed and new the risks...sure go ahead. But these "kids" knew nothing and because of that took needless risks and ignored any form of warning. All because they are depressed, and it doesn't matter and such personal "nonsence".

Why would I curse or hex anyone? I aint a witch and won't lower myself to that. What they did to themselves is something I can't equal even if I tried anyway.

Pan is misunderstood, but so are many deities

It has been many years since I felt the urge to do so, but I have no doubt that in the right situation, I could see myself getting physical. It would have to be a pretty unlikely meeting though. For example, if I somehow ended up getting five minutes alone with a serial killer....... I am pretty sure that I would go after him. Maybe not. Yeah, I would.
We are all our own worst enemies, so true.
No one can hurt us as deeply as we can hurt ourselves.
It is beyond me what these people are going through, but I wish them success. My feeling is that they can do whatever they set their minds to, and if that is ridding themselves of the remnants of a misguided journey down a rocky road, then I think that they can do that.
'You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.' Buddha

There is no difference and there is no difference in mindset either. We're all using the same energies and intentions. And magick and the occult is more aimed towards self exploration and self growth and understanding and spirituality then you might think.

I have to dissagree. I work to serve others and help and heal and and and...
Other work to gain money, win the lotto, feel like they are special or powerful because can do something others cannot. That is a BIG difference to me. It's the difference between mom spending all day cooking, cleaning and taking care of the children because she loves them and would'nt want it any other way and a babysitter begrudgingly doing what ever she had to do to get paid and get out of there asap.

Know what I'm saying?

I know excactely what you're saying. However you're missing 1 thing. You're saying that those differences in what you do and others depends on the path they choose to follow. You follow the metaphysical and I do magick. But following a different path doesn't mean you got a different mindset because of it.

The mindset is from the individual themselves and what they choose to do with the knowledge they've gained. It's not coming from the practices and studies from a certain path whether it be the metaphysical, religions or the occult magick/mysticism.

After all individuals have their own set of moralities, thoughts and each follows their own path. And there are more roads then 1 that lead to Rome.

What do you think of us occultists? That we all got massive ego's and use magick for personal gains? Wake up call...we're not like that at all. We work at ourselves in anyway possible and through that we also see all the negative aspects. Doing so we will learn humility and most practitioners you won't even notice that they are there. We don't use magick constantly, because we see it only as a means like what scalpels are to a cergion(sp?). We don't rely on magick but on ourselves first. We don't help others untill we have helped ourselves. After all...how can you help someone when you can't even help yourself. How can you love someone or respect someone when you don't even have it for yourself.

[edit on 30-1-2006 by Enyalius]

"This type of creature has been here for eons.Think you could control it if you wish to indulge in dark or light ceremonial magic?"

This was my opening quote and it should be self-explanatory for those on the forum who are constantly wishing to conjure,,regardless.
Perhaps you should read my profile, as I have no idea what you are saying or asking, as preaching to anyone does no good :[.I am surprised you wish to continue what makes no sense to me..If you persist, I shall have to use goddess ignora.

excellis' or 'philosopher's stone', or whatever it's called, and the process proceeded just as depicted in his recipe. The description of the changes and end product was very interesting. Unfortunately, rather than gold being what was created, it was one of the ingredients he had to supply.

Guard;

This is the most mis-understood substances of all time.
I have done it on my own, but the main ingedient one has to use is being polluted and disappearing due to weather changes.Only works halfway.
When it was done centuries ago, there was plenty of this ingredient.
In order for me to make 'a stone which is not a stone,' I would have to find an enlightened female[of which I only know of 1] to supply me with the nectar of the gods in plentous supply, which will make it more powerful, but purity of soul and lack of greed is the main priorities.
Thanks for your excellent input.


[edit on 30-1-2006 by siriuslyone]

I always knew there was something more to nature, and the coincidents that keep happening throughout my life to myself and the others around me. All the mysteries of life and the empathy and kinship I feel with nature. High Magick for me and lots of meditation fits so well and the whole concept of rebirth and Karma fits so well for me.

I've seen a lot in my line of work, I see that human spirit and I also see the innocent and the good in such desperation, and you know they arent going to make it, I dont see how some faiths could even endure for me under those conditions, I have a Christain baptist that I always make runs with on the department, and he always keeps faith in Jesus.

For me the craft of the Ancient, and believing your reason for being is learning and living every experience the human condition/incondition has to offer and sometimes its not much time you have to be there. Finally after finding everything about the human life you go to your next plane of life/existing this really helps me cope and explain the inexplainable.

Magick helps me deal with all of this, especially for meditation and learning about my soul/spirit/self.

My wife is a Second level Rieki, most of her power is receptive she is very intuitive, but exept when using Rieki then she is projective.

After studying her Rieki and my being very projective I really feel they are the same energy just tapping into it in a different way.