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Atheism vs. christianty

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posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 05:50 PM
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well onegodjesus, I appreciate you for taking that so well. I realize that I had gone into an anti-christian rant and I apologize. I really dont despise christians as much as I may come off as, as a matter of fact all of my family except me is heavily christian.

but to address the issue I do have some questions for you. The first one is acually a question for you. Do you ever question you faith or even some parts of it? have you ever consider not taking god out of the picture but just take out the church system instead(agnostic)?

How do you determine that the bible is truly the word of god and not just a book(besides just faith)?

If god created man, than who created god? I also find the christian critism of the big bang theory hypocrisy because the theory that god created the earth also riddled with inconsistencies.




posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by daedalas
1) well onegodjesus, I appreciate you for taking that so well. I realize that I had gone into an anti-christian rant and I apologize. I really dont despise christians as much as I may come off as, as a matter of fact all of my family except me is heavily christian.

but to address the issue I do have some questions for you. The first one is acually a question for you.

2) Do you ever question you faith or even some parts of it?

3) have you ever consider not taking god out of the picture but just take out the church system instead(agnostic)?

4) How do you determine that the bible is truly the word of god and not just a book(besides just faith)?

5) If god created man, than who created god?

6) I also find the christian critism of the big bang theory hypocrisy because the theory that god created the earth also riddled with inconsistencies.



1) Sure, I was even a little short with you on that one but it was only in a friendly way. Kind of like when you punch your friend in the arm and comment that they stink like rotten cabbage, what cologne are they wearing again???

2) Do I question my faith? Yes at times when things get really hard. Let me give you an example. You spend all of your adult life serving your country and are very good at what you do. You decide to give back to the service and get hurt in the process. After a year of surgeries and rehab they kick you out and with a paltry 70k (all of which is taxable income and can't be deducted or recuped and puts you in a higher tax bracket). You are now out on your own with a family to care for and a spouse who, while great at raising kids and taking care of domestic, has no higher education and can't help a great deal in the bills you have accumulated over the years and never managed to pay off. So what do you do? Well, I put out applications like crazy all over the country and called for follow ups. I prayed hard about it and left the rest up to God where we'd move. The people we went to church with in Maryland wanted us to come back and prayed too, but didn't tell us. The interviews started coming in, but only from where the church prayed from in Maryland. I waited for something local, Biloxi MS, but nothing came. So we packed up and moved here to MD. Two months later Katrina hit and the house we were in was destroyed. I got a job in two weeks after we arrived and now I'm making twice as much as I was in the military with better benefits. Was it God, I like to think so. Too many coincidences for me to say otherwise. Do I question the oneness of God? I have trouble understanding it sometimes but I can see the biblical principal of the oneness. The only thing I have trouble with is the if Jesus was wholey man and God, men have souls, where did Jesus' soul go? Once this in answered for me by scripture I can speak with some authority on the rest. David Bernard has a great book explaining the rest. It is a long read but it is called the oneness of God (not plugging here just ref.). Baptism is clear and I can speak with great authority, the infilling of the Holy Ghost no problem. Living Holy again no problem. Do I struggle with mixed bathing and TV, yes I do. I see plenty of preachers with the internet and radio and rental movies but won't attend the cinema, have cable or swim with anyone not family. So, yes I do have troubles at times.

3) The church system as in the organization? Like UPCI or PAW, like that? I think that ANY large organization has drawbacks, because you are dealing with personalities. People have ego's that need to be fed and things happen when we let our carnality get control of us. If that is what you mean.

If you mean to eliminate a pastor and a congregation? No I can show scripturally where it is absolutely necessary to have these. Do I like to be alone with just me and God to talk and enjoy each other for the sake of who He is and who I can become through Him? Yes, I like that very much. I don;t get to do it too often as we all lead VERY busy lives. I pray often (though not enough) and ask for wisdom and the other fruits to be exibited in me. For me to push me out of the way and let Him work thruough me to help people and let Him get the glory.

4) Application of its principals. If you help someone don't you get a great sense of pride in a job well done? That is principal based in works that are greater than our nature and thus unnatural. Most all of nature is selfish. How many creatures (animals) are not selfserving? I know of none. Ultimately they are working together (if they do in fact work together at all) to supply something for themselves and not just to see the others at a benefit. When you apply the Bible to your life it changes you from the inside out. I mean sure, there are always going to be those who use it to thier advantage and steal from others or cause then to go down a bad path and kill themselves. That is where the Word comes back into play. The Word says in Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

5) The Bible says He always was. Beyond that I dunno. I haven't seen Him, I feel Him move through me, I've seen Him change lives and seen miracles that medicine can't explain and protections that worked beyond understanding. Does that make me think He has power to be the originator of everything, absolutely.

6) Now we are getting into science. There are many websites out there that both refute and re-refute this. I am not a scientist, I can boil an egg though...I'll look into this one if you'd like and get back with if I can, K?



posted on Feb, 10 2006 @ 01:22 PM
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4) Application of its principals. If you help someone don't you get a great sense of pride in a job well done? That is principal based in works that are greater than our nature and thus unnatural. Most all of nature is selfish. How many creatures (animals) are not selfserving? I know of none. Ultimately they are working together (if they do in fact work together at all) to supply something for themselves and not just to see the others at a benefit. When you apply the Bible to your life it changes you from the inside out. I mean sure, there are always going to be those who use it to thier advantage and steal from others or cause then to go down a bad path and kill themselves. That is where the Word comes back into play.


Almost every pack animal in existence contributes efforts to the herd, and will protect eachother by putting themselves in danger, unless of course you are talking about the one in the heard that needs to be culled, then they just let it get killed. True selflessness does not lie in the realm of committing an act because it makes you feel good... as such, almost any creature with group social dynamics does this. The hard part is proving it makes them feel good... but it is easy to prove that the social group benefits from the behavior, as it preserves the numbers of the social group and increases survival chances.

Of course, you probably don't know this because you don't study animals like a few of the people I know, but that's what I get for living in Alaska.



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:52 PM
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4) Application of its principals. If you help someone don't you get a great sense of pride in a job well done? That is principal based in works that are greater than our nature and thus unnatural. Most all of nature is selfish. How many creatures (animals) are not selfserving? I know of none. Ultimately they are working together (if they do in fact work together at all) to supply something for themselves and not just to see the others at a benefit. When you apply the Bible to your life it changes you from the inside out. I mean sure, there are always going to be those who use it to thier advantage and steal from others or cause then to go down a bad path and kill themselves. That is where the Word comes back into play.


you know, you dont have to read the bible and believe in god in order to be a good person. In fact I think it is more selfless for an atheist to do an act of kindness because he knows its the right thing to do, than a christian doing an act of kindness because they are scoring a ticket to heaven.

An act of kindness means a lot more when you do it of your own accord, not when someone is pressuring you to do so, and not when you feel it is your obligation to do so



posted on Feb, 17 2006 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by myles91



4) Application of its principals. If you help someone don't you get a great sense of pride in a job well done? That is principal based in works that are greater than our nature and thus unnatural. Most all of nature is selfish. How many creatures (animals) are not selfserving? I know of none. Ultimately they are working together (if they do in fact work together at all) to supply something for themselves and not just to see the others at a benefit. When you apply the Bible to your life it changes you from the inside out. I mean sure, there are always going to be those who use it to thier advantage and steal from others or cause then to go down a bad path and kill themselves. That is where the Word comes back into play.


you know, you dont have to read the bible and believe in god in order to be a good person. In fact I think it is more selfless for an atheist to do an act of kindness because he knows its the right thing to do, than a christian doing an act of kindness because they are scoring a ticket to heaven.

An act of kindness means a lot more when you do it of your own accord, not when someone is pressuring you to do so, and not when you feel it is your obligation to do so


Im sorry, I did it again. This is my post I will just have to double check whos name I am under before I post.



posted on Feb, 18 2006 @ 01:04 AM
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I don't think God is too concerned with what you believe. All he wants is for each of us to be true to ourselves, and do what we ourselves feel to be the right thing. I think it is possible to worship the Devil and still be doing the right thing by God. Just my opinion.



posted on Feb, 18 2006 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by mytym
I don't think God is too concerned with what you believe. All he wants is for each of us to be true to ourselves, and do what we ourselves feel to be the right thing.


I'm curious how it is you have come to know the mind of god.



posted on Feb, 19 2006 @ 03:45 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by mytym
I don't think God is too concerned with what you believe. All he wants is for each of us to be true to ourselves, and do what we ourselves feel to be the right thing.


I'm curious how it is you have come to know the mind of god.


Mytym didn't say 'know' as you claim, but said ' I don't think...' as you even pasted 4 lines above that.... ?
What's the deal?



posted on Feb, 19 2006 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII

Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by mytym
I don't think God is too concerned with what you believe. All he wants is for each of us to be true to ourselves, and do what we ourselves feel to be the right thing.


I'm curious how it is you have come to know the mind of god.


Mytym didn't say 'know' as you claim, but said ' I don't think...' as you even pasted 4 lines above that.... ?
What's the deal?


To have some opinion about what god does or doesn't concern himself implies some form of knowledge. I'm not sure what you're talking about with the 4 lines above that comment.



posted on Feb, 19 2006 @ 01:48 PM
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I think BobbyLaoTse done said it quite well. In fact, if we go back a few thousand years, back when politics and religion were the same thing, we find answers to two of the questions. One, why are the two so alike and two, why are the two so...'us against them'.
"Spreadthetruth don't got it right however. They ain't both theories. Religion does not qualify as a theory just as the basic position of the Flat Earth Society does not qualifyand, for the same reason.
Atheism, on the other hand is not a theory and makes no claim to be one. It is a position, one that is supported by the evidence and spends little or no time even thinking about religion other, that is, than as a question of Human Dynamics.
skep



posted on Feb, 20 2006 @ 06:13 AM
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spamandham:
If anything having some form of knowledge would make an opinion redundant, as it wouldn't be an opinion if you knew for a fact what you were stating was the truth, would it?



posted on Feb, 20 2006 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by mytym
spamandham:
If anything having some form of knowledge would make an opinion redundant, as it wouldn't be an opinion if you knew for a fact what you were stating was the truth, would it?


Opinions are reserved for that which is qualitative rather than factual. The desires of god is not determined by opinion any more than the existence of gravity on Neptune is determined by opinion. These are factual assessments, not opinions.

But, you've indirectly answered the question I asked anyway - you are simply guessing.



posted on Feb, 20 2006 @ 07:41 PM
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That's right. I'm not claiming to know the mind of God, I'm just stating my opinion. Hence my use of the terms "think", and "Just my opinion".



posted on Feb, 20 2006 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by mytym
That's right. I'm not claiming to know the mind of God, I'm just stating my opinion. Hence my use of the terms "think", and "Just my opinion".


Well, when used in conjunction with a factual topic, they are equivalent to stating that you have no idea regarding the facts, yet have formed a conclusion on them nonetheless.

Why would you hold a position an a factual statement, with no facts from which to derive it? Does that seem rational to you?



posted on Feb, 21 2006 @ 01:37 AM
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You must be kidding! Atheism v Christianity is as non-factual as it gets. It's all about faith, not facts.



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 07:53 AM
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I have a quick question to those I have debated with in the past (I won't call you out by name). I have stated that maybe the Agnostics and Atheists are really searching for God or secretly envy the people of faith and that the reason they even visit these areas of BTS is in fact that very search for fulfillment they lack in that "God shaaped" place in their hearts. The answers I get are along the lines of "I don't come here to bash Christians just to hone my debating skills" or "I don't have an agenda even though I mostly only post here" or "I seek spritual enlightenment or something". I am curious why then that it is only Christian postings that they visit. I have made a new study and actively have a thread here that is about Islam. In fact it is in the same genre as the famed "Anti-Christian conspiracy", yet has not got the usual suspects that argue against christian posts. I would like a response as to why this is. If spirituality is important to you and that is your argument against Christianity, then is Isalm any less spiritual and not worthy of somment? If you are seeking a God shaped filling in your life, is not Islam a God shaped religion? If you are just honing your debating skills against organized religion, what better that the next big religious movement? It is after all the fastest growing religion in the world according to reports. If you cannot answer these questions in a resonable manner, maybe you do have an anti-Christina agenda after all..or maybe not.



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 08:30 AM
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I have read the Qu'ran, as well as three versions of the bible, the KJAV, NIV, and Good News. In the west, Christianity is the predominant faith by a large margin. This is probably the reason why. The posters have had far more exposure to Christians, and therefore have some grasp of what the faith they follow is about. This allows them the confidence to confront it. If they have not befriended any Muslims, or spent any time around any, they most likely are quite unsure what points of contention to pick at. It is not my place to say what anyone else should believe, imo. I just concern myself with what I believe. I bet that if Islam was in the position that Christianity is in the west, it would be the favoured target of these folk.
It may be a totally different reason, though, I don't know for sure.



posted on Feb, 22 2006 @ 04:34 PM
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Don't forget, Blackguard, that many people also respond to their subscribed threads, the ones they have posted in before... and other than that, to the top ten threads displayed on the front ATS forums page.



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 06:58 AM
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Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
Don't forget, Blackguard, that many people also respond to their subscribed threads, the ones they have posted in before... and other than that, to the top ten threads displayed on the front ATS forums page.



Good point. So do you think maybe they (whomever they are) focus almost entirely on the areas they can speak intelligently on? I mean if we all did that where would the site be, lol. I have followed some folks postings (just the ones who have been vehement about what I post) just out of curiosity to see what they are thinking and how they approach things and folks are usually centered upon bashing and trashing instead of contructive arguments , I am guessing because it is safe to do and no physical harm befalls them as a result. I have also found that there are patterns to peoples entries and thought processes. Some will post and paste strictly from others sites and then enter a few thoughts or challenges. Others are true writers and make something original. Still others will just smash and trash. I may not like what he says but there is a guy out there whose handle is soulja (or something like that) and he gives a great deal of thought about what he posts (again I am almost 180 deg in my opinions) but I respect the fact he writes quite extensively. If he'd tone it down and not be so raving about his views he might actually get some contructive discussions going. That is what I see this site as being. A collective of opposing views thrown together and as a result maybe a new understanding of where people are coming from can emerge. I mean I really hated atheistic and agnostic thought and non-sense before and I really don't like them now (just kidding). But really I understand the thought process now of these two groups and can use that to approach and speak understandingly with them about what we can do together to fix the problems they face (and of course sharing about my religious experience too as that is my commission).



posted on Feb, 23 2006 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by OneGodJesus
But really I understand the thought process now of these two groups and can use that to approach and speak understandingly with them about what we can do together to fix the problems they face (and of course sharing about my religious experience too as that is my commission).


What problems, per se, are you saying they face? And also, giving freely of yourself when it isn't asked can be just as insulting as not when you are. I am guessing you believe it is a christian's responsibility to spread the gospel and save everyone.




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