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Atheism vs. christianty

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posted on Feb, 4 2006 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by riley
1) Actually you validated your opinion by claiming the bible supports it.. even though the bible is completly interpritive.. miss-translated and there are whole sections missing. You have no idea if your interpritation is correct.. and your assertion that you do means that you think you know what your god wants.. hence you think you speak for your god.

2) Are you a biblical scholar?


3) I did. I have read through entire texts [new jerusalem & king james] on more than one occasion.. I was raised on the bible.

4) Well.. for starters your anti-atheism thread was on the brink of breaking ATS rules.. and your opinions about the beliefs of others are biggoted and hatefilled. You also frequently justify your attacks on others by playing victim.. I do not know why you continue this 'debate' method as it doesn't wash.

Are you more special than me? More enlightened? I think not.

Of course you don't.. you have deemed anyone who does not share your beliefs as sinful. If you even considered their beliefs to be valid or to hold any virtue.. your high moral ground would crumble beneath you and you'd have no platform to throw rocks from.

5) Wrong.. there is no such thing as nothing. Lack of deity does not equal lack of spirituality.

6) It doesn't bother me that others have faith.. it bothers me when they use their faith to persecute others.

7) You slinked away because you couldn't ethically justify yourself without having to aplogise.

8) Ever heared of the boy who cried wolf? If you want to play innocent victim convincingly- you need to actually BE the part and not insult other people's beliefs. I'd also like to know what 'close call' means? Usually that means almost dieing or getting seriously hurt.. too late. I almost had my neck broken two years ago.. it didn't convert me. Do you really wish something bad to happen to me? ..aren't curses suppose to be the DEVIL's domain??


1) That would be what.....wait for it....YOUR opinion......yeah!!!! Confetti everywhere!!!

2) Biblical scholar...hmmmmm....no, but then neither were any of the Apostles, in fact the Bible says they were unlearned ignorant men, yet they confounded the greatest minds of their times. So......

3) IF you had read them then you'd have more basis for fact than you have, I have YET to see a single scripture supporting YOUR views.

4) Rules...you mean like the one that you aren't supposed to attack an individual (as you have done repeatedly) but a movement or conspiracy is ok? Like rule 2 of the "Terms and Conditions" kinf of rules that you break all the time and get away with because the majority of mods agree with you and pick and choose what they want to levy? Victim hmm, only of the fact that YOU continuallt get away with attacks that if a proclaimed Christian had done they'd have been deducted points/censured or banned altogether? You mean like that kind of victim? Yeah I can see that as fair...:shk:

5) Hello, spirituality implies a theistic approach to something and that by definition if the anti-thesis of atheism or did you suddenly change what you believe and forgot to mention it?

6) And I have done this how? Did *I go under the "atheist" link and start spouting Christian idealogy at folks? BTW why isn't there an atheist or agnostic link to allow them to talk about how great they are and how everyone else with a faith is so unenlightened? Oh, I remember because they run this joint.

7) Hello again, I did apologize, you just weren't big enough to accept it. And for all the rest (and so you shut up). I apologize to whomever is offended by my brand of faith. This changes nothing about what God's Word says though.

8) The very existence of faith offends those who have none, so again I say "whatever".



[edit on 4/2/06 by OneGodJesus]




posted on Feb, 4 2006 @ 02:05 PM
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It is not your place to tell anyone who has sinned, regardless of how much the bible may or may not back you up.

You do not have the right to pass judgment, no matter what you yourself think. It is arrogance, and blasphemy against the lamb of god that you decide you speak with righteousness and divine will. God has not granted you purview to determine which man is righteous and which man is not.

You damn yourself by believing you somehow have the domain for criticizing others in their virtue and faith. Christ said himself, and said quite clearly, "Let no man come to the father but through ME".

In that there is two options, you are the kind of hypocritical, self-indulged, self-interested christian who believes no matter what they say or do to others, it is in the name of God and thus forgiven.

Or, you believe that one should live as Christ, and you are purposely going against the parables Christ presented. If you don't believe me, you find me ONE PLACE in the new testament wherein Christ condemned sinners in the same matter you have done. And I said CHRIST, not the apostles.



posted on Feb, 4 2006 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
It is not your place to tell anyone who has sinned, regardless of how much the bible may or may not back you up.

You do not have the right to pass judgment, no matter what you yourself think. It is arrogance, and blasphemy against the lamb of god that you decide you speak with righteousness and divine will. God has not granted you purview to determine which man is righteous and which man is not.

You damn yourself by believing you somehow have the domain for criticizing others in their virtue and faith. Christ said himself, and said quite clearly, "Let no man come to the father but through ME".

In that there is two options, you are the kind of hypocritical, self-indulged, self-interested christian who believes no matter what they say or do to others, it is in the name of God and thus forgiven.

Or, you believe that one should live as Christ, and you are purposely going against the parables Christ presented. If you don't believe me, you find me ONE PLACE in the new testament wherein Christ condemned sinners in the same matter you have done. And I said CHRIST, not the apostles.


So you are saying the words of the Apostles are not valid? You my friend tread dangerous ground there yourself. You are also getting off topic of what I said, I hate the sin and love the sinner. That is typical of people who do not understand the scriptures and in need of guidance (no offense intended) and you comment reflects this. Now, the scripture paraphrase you used is a great example of just how far off base your statement is. He is already condemning people who do not follow that path by the very words spoken there. "If you come another way you are a liar and a thief" and it says later that they shall have thier part in the lake of fire as all liars will. So tell me again what your point is?

Oh yeah and you are in violation of Rule two of the Code as is your pal. So tone it down or I'll tell mom on you.

[edit on 4/2/06 by OneGodJesus]



posted on Feb, 4 2006 @ 07:58 PM
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I tread where I please, where I choose, and my Creator goeth before me. I choose to listen to the spirit which speaks unto me. I choose to listen to that which tells me I am not to interpret the words of God, or to argue as to what has gone past and died in reflection of the New Testament.

I live by Christ's example, and I say you have no right to wish ill on another human being. That is antithetical to everything Christ represented. He never wished ill on anyone, and he never called the wrath of his father onto anyone.

I haven't broken any ToS in the posts I have made, and I dare you to call a moderator. You basically threatened someone with a PRAYER, you wished that they would have something almost KILL them to prove God was real to them.

You call the moderators, please, go ahead. All I have done is tell you why what you said in the name of a Loving religion is wrong. I'm fairly certain wishing ILL on someone on a message forum is also not looked well upon.



posted on Feb, 4 2006 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
I'm fairly certain wishing ILL on someone on a message forum is also not looked well upon.


It seems to be permitted as long as the insanity is not original to the author. Passing on thousands of years old threats is not even discouraged apparently.



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
1) I tread where I please, where I choose, and my Creator goeth before me. I choose to listen to the spirit which speaks unto me. I choose to listen to that which tells me I am not to interpret the words of God, or to argue as to what has gone past and died in reflection of the New Testament.

2) I live by Christ's example, and I say you have no right to wish ill on another human being. That is antithetical to everything Christ represented. He never wished ill on anyone, and he never called the wrath of his father onto anyone.

3) I haven't broken any ToS in the posts I have made, and I dare you to call a moderator. You basically threatened someone with a PRAYER, you wished that they would have something almost KILL them to prove God was real to them.

4) You call the moderators, please, go ahead. All I have done is tell you why what you said in the name of a Loving religion is wrong. I'm fairly certain wishing ILL on someone on a message forum is also not looked well upon.


1) Just because you are torturing old english does not mean you either a) know the bible or b) are a theological scholar so just stop with the "goeths, thees and thous" ok?

2) Christ example, hmmmm, I am thinking nyet (russian sp?)

3) So you say all that to defend a statement like "you are the kind of hypocritical, self-indulged, self-interested christian who believes no matter what they say or do to others, it is in the name of God and thus forgiven." and say that is not in violation of rule two? Are you reading the same rules as I am? Oh, I know it is MY interpretation of those rules....lol.

4) As I have state previously the mods lean typically against instances like this. I have been doing a bit of research lately and this forum is rife with inequality, but then the rules say it can be, because after all it is a privately owned public forum so why not. This being said it would do no good.



Last thing before I go to church and pray all I have said will happen, I didn't say the "close call" was supposed to be physical injury, you did. I had a "close call" when I almost got hit by a car at age 14 and somehow, someway that car missed me when it shouldn't have. So try barking at another tree, no cat up that one...lol.


[edit on 5/2/06 by OneGodJesus]



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
I'm fairly certain wishing ILL on someone on a message forum is also not looked well upon.


It seems to be permitted as long as the insanity is not original to the author. Passing on thousands of years old threats is not even discouraged apparently.


Old friend, your whit surpassed him, so try to speak less eloquently for the masses...lol.



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
I live by Christ's example, and I say you have no right to wish ill on another human being. That is antithetical to everything Christ represented. He never wished ill on anyone, and he never called the wrath of his father onto anyone.

I do greatly respect this interpritation of christianity.. all religions have nurturing and loving aspects and I think all people should be encouraged to embrace these ideals and not focus so much on negative condemnation ['my god gonna get your god' etc]. It is meant to be the message that is important.. not the messenger. Many philosophers and spiritual leaders throughout history have had the same message.. compassion and tolerence. So long as everyone from every creed understands this and they live their lives based on it.. should it matter where the message comes from? I don't care what religion someone is, so long as they don't use it to persecute and encourage wars. Weapons aren't as primitive as they used to be so the whole human race is a risk.

[edit on 5-2-2006 by riley]



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by OneGodJesus
1) Just because you are torturing old english does not mean you either a) know the bible or b) are a theological scholar so just stop with the "goeths, thees and thous" ok?


Attacking the mode of speech or word usage of someone is pedantic and purile, because it means you have nothing better to criticize, or you are being nothing more than a child. If you'd like, I'll start correcting all the spelling of every post you've made.



2) Christ example, hmmmm, I am thinking nyet (russian sp?)


So you speak for god AND you speak for christ. Your arrogance is astounding.



3) So you say all that to defend a statement like "you are the kind of hypocritical, self-indulged, self-interested christian who believes no matter what they say or do to others, it is in the name of God and thus forgiven." and say that is not in violation of rule two? Are you reading the same rules as I am? Oh, I know it is MY interpretation of those rules....lol.


I gave you that option as to why you are behaving as you are. You don't appear to understand what an OPTION is. I'm going with the option you just presented as to the reason for your behavior because you have been rude, selfish, arrogant, conceited, superior, and a number of other adjectives to both other christians in this thread as well as atheists.



4) As I have state previously the mods lean typically against instances like this. I have been doing a bit of research lately and this forum is rife with inequality, but then the rules say it can be, because after all it is a privately owned public forum so why not. This being said it would do no good.


I'm sure the mods have done some biased stuff. That aside, as forums go, these forums appear to be fairly equal in their treatment of people.



Last thing before I go to church and pray all I have said will happen, I didn't say the "close call" was supposed to be physical injury, you did. I had a "close call" when I almost got hit by a car at age 14 and somehow, someway that car missed me when it shouldn't have. So try barking at another tree, no cat up that one...lol.
[edit on 5/2/06 by OneGodJesus]


Whether it is physical harm or terrifying a person, you wished someone ILL and used GOD to do so. You are exactly why people hate christianity, and I am ashamed that you represent me wherever you go.

Your behavior in this thread, as well as other threads, leads me to believe you are exactly the kind of bigoted person that gives christianity a bad name. I guess I am only lucky I haven't run into someone like you sooner.

I patiently await more vitriol spewing from you, as you have not been civil so shouldn't expect it from others.



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
I live by Christ's example, and I say you have no right to wish ill on another human being. That is antithetical to everything Christ represented. He never wished ill on anyone, and he never called the wrath of his father onto anyone.

I do greatly respect this interpritation of christianity.. all religions have nurturing and loving aspects and I think all people should be encouraged to embrace these ideals and not focus so much on negative condemnation ['my god gonna get your god' etc]. It is meant to be the message that is important.. not the messenger. Many philosophers and spiritual leaders throughout history have had the same message.. compassion and tolerence. So long as everyone from every creed understands this and they live their lives based on it.. should it matter where the message comes from? I don't care what religion someone is, so long as they don't use it to persecute and encourage wars. Weapons aren't as primitive as they used to be so the whole human race is a risk.
[edit on 5-2-2006 by riley]


Generally speaking, it's how I tend to live. While I may get verbose and impassioned on a topic, the response I have had to 1GJ is not my typical response, even to people who I particularly dislike.

Unfortunately, there certainly is a goodly portion of christians who do not care how much they endanger others with their behavior, or that their offensive manner of worship does not ingratiate them to anyone but in fact causes all people to view Christians as some narrow minded, hate filled, bigoted, self-serving hypocrites. Myself being a Gnostic, I value the teachings of christ a great deal, and dislike having to work through the anti-christian biases people have developed BECAUSE of such christians as I mentioned. It is harder to opens ones heart the more you have closed it to an idea.



posted on Feb, 5 2006 @ 05:13 PM
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This thread, nor any other, is devoted to discussing, attacking, insulting and flaming of fellow members. The purpose of this thread is to discuss Athiesm vs. Christianity, and following this post I expect it to go back to that topic and I expect that all personal jabs be left at the door.

No more.



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 08:01 AM
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Wilco with the request by the Mod.

OK, Atheism vs. Christianity.

I ask a question to the historical scholars out there. What is the beginning of Atheism? How long has it been around in it finality or had it changed during the years to include or exclude earlier teachings. Does it really have any formal definition and organization to guide it. Is it really just a bunch of people who are confused about what they really want (no offense intended as I am addressing this very thing in another thread and trying to understand what it is people think Atheism is or Agnosticism for that matter). Who are the historical adherants to this, dare I say philosophy or religion? Is it like Taoism in ats application? In that Buddhism is a religion and Taoism is a philosophy. That ia why you has a mixing of ideas in some Asian countries.

Christianity, for them that call themselves this title, do you even know what your church teaches about salvation and who God is. We can even break this down a bit further to something really basic. How do you think a person gets to heaven. Example: A person needs to be a really good person and that is all, a person needs to do good works to get there, a person needs to be born again, a person needs to be baptised a certain way or anyway at all (i.e. emmersion or sprinkling of holy water), these are the things that will help us all to better understand each others views based on what we think, what we have experienced and what the Word says.



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by OneGodJesus
What is the beginning of Atheism?


Atheism probably precedes recorded history, but the first outspoken atheist in recorded history I believe was Epicurus. Plato was also accused of atheism. Early Christians were called atheists because they rejected the gods. For most of the past 2000 years, "atheist" was a derogatory term that was applied to people who lived as if there were no god (prostitutes, thieves, muderers, etc.), regardless of their professed beliefs.

Then the Age of Enlightenment came along, and it became acceptable to call yourself a deist. That set the stage for philosophical naturalists to begin calling themselves atheists in the 19th century.


Originally posted by OneGodJesus
How long has it been around in it finality or had it changed during the years to include or exclude earlier teachings.


There are no teachings, as it is not a religious or philosophical system.


Originally posted by OneGodJesus
Does it really have any formal definition and organization to guide it.


No.


Originally posted by OneGodJesus
Is it really just a bunch of people who are confused about what they really want (no offense intended as I am addressing this very thing in another thread and trying to understand what it is people think Atheism is or Agnosticism for that matter).


No. Atheism is not a movement of any kind, so there is no organized goal.

Apply the types of questions you are asking to aleprechaunists and ask yourself if questions are sensible or not.


Originally posted by OneGodJesus
Christianity, for them that call themselves this title, do you even know what your church teaches about salvation and who God is. We can even break this down a bit further to something really basic. How do you think a person gets to heaven.


More importantly, who is the central arbiter that decides who is and isn't a Christian? I'm sure you have an answer, but it is likely an arbitrary answer. Not all Christians believe in an afterlife, or salvation in the sense you think of it, or believe that the Bible is god's word, or that Jesus rose from the dead, etc.

Some believe as early Christians did, that Christ is within, and that salvation does not refer to salvation from death, but rather, salvation from a pointless self-centered life.



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by The Parallelogram
I don't understand the Christianity vs. atheism duality emergent in our society today... it seems like a reflection of the horribly outdated two-party political system we cling to so feebly.


Praise for that!



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by spamandham
More importantly, who is the central arbiter that decides who is and isn't a Christian? I'm sure you have an answer, but it is likely an arbitrary answer. Not all Christians believe in an afterlife, or salvation in the sense you think of it, or believe that the Bible is god's word, or that Jesus rose from the dead, etc.

Some believe as early Christians did, that Christ is within, and that salvation does not refer to salvation from death, but rather, salvation from a pointless self-centered life.


Actually I was hoping someone that followed that faith would chime in on this one span. But as always any comments are weighed in the mix.



posted on Feb, 6 2006 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by OneGodJesus
(no offense intended as I am addressing this very thing in another thread and trying to understand what it is people think Atheism is or Agnosticism for that matter).


Atheism is the belief that there is no god, specifically. Some atheists believe in a spiritual existence, some believe only in the physical.

Agnostics are people who are seeking proof, evidence, they wish to believe or disbelieve but either personal experience has denied them a final judgment call or they just don't feel as if they have enough information.



Who are the historical adherants to this, dare I say philosophy or religion? Is it like Taoism in ats application? In that Buddhism is a religion and Taoism is a philosophy. That ia why you has a mixing of ideas in some Asian countries.


Actually, Asians tend to treat religion itself quite a bit differently than Western people. As such, most religion is considered to be philosophy to Asians.



Christianity, for them that call themselves this title, do you even know what your church teaches about salvation and who God is. We can even break this down a bit further to something really basic. How do you think a person gets to heaven. Example: A person needs to be a really good person and that is all, a person needs to do good works to get there, a person needs to be born again, a person needs to be baptised a certain way or anyway at all (i.e. emmersion or sprinkling of holy water), these are the things that will help us all to better understand each others views based on what we think, what we have experienced and what the Word says.


Well. Firstly I don't believe in Sin, which means I also don't believe in Hell. I believe Sin and Hell are constructs used to control people's behavior, whereas I would rather live a good life out of choice rather than fear of repurcussion in the afterlife. This, of course, is resultant in the idea that anyone who has lived has never been punished for their deeds in an afterlife.

I believe Christ's claim that he is the way has nothing to do with baptism, or reading the Bible, or asking for forgiveness. I believe it has everything to do with trying to live as Christ lived, emulate his example, as well as attain a spiritual sense of awareness which allows one to transcend the physical limitations of the universe and become a wholly spiritual being.

I also believe that any spiritual pursuit mus in the end keep an open mind to all possible things, never falling prey to one particular set of ideals or constructs such that you become stuck on the idea of your own correctness.



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 05:53 PM
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Sorry wrong post.


Nuke it please.

[edit on 8/2/06 by OneGodJesus]



posted on Feb, 8 2006 @ 06:07 PM
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quote: Originally posted by OneGodJesus
Christianity, for them that call themselves this title, do you even know what your church teaches about salvation and who God is. We can even break this down a bit further to something really basic. How do you think a person gets to heaven.

More importantly, who is the central arbiter that decides who is and isn't a Christian? I'm sure you have an answer, but it is likely an arbitrary answer. Not all Christians believe in an afterlife, or salvation in the sense you think of it, or believe that the Bible is god's word, or that Jesus rose from the dead, etc.
Some believe as early Christians did, that Christ is within, and that salvation does not refer to salvation from death, but rather, salvation from a pointless self-centered life. spamandham

"You've got to go through hell before you get to heaven." Steve Miller
If the answer is that I must accept Jesus died for my sins, and I need to unload my sins onto him as my cover charge to get in to heaven, I am s.o.l.
It is interesting to note that the salvation definition above is the same as what one Muslim told me Jihad meant. It was a holy war, within. A war against personal inner demons, with salvation the reward for victory.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 02:18 PM
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My main problem with christianity is the bible. The only thing that says that the bible is sacred is the bible. Some might say the apostles say it but they just wrote it in the bible.

If someone proved the bible wrong christianity would simply fall apart. Everything that makes Jesus the son of god and not just another guy is the bible. They base everything on it. If you argue with a christian about this for a long time you can rationalize everything they think is spiritual. And it always ends in faith. I have a hard time beleiving in something, when you ask question about it and the only answer is...well, just because.



posted on Feb, 9 2006 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by daedalas
My main problem with christianity is the bible. The only thing that says that the bible is sacred is the bible. Some might say the apostles say it but they just wrote it in the bible.

If someone proved the bible wrong christianity would simply fall apart. Everything that makes Jesus the son of god and not just another guy is the bible. They base everything on it. If you argue with a christian about this for a long time you can rationalize everything they think is spiritual. And it always ends in faith. I have a hard time beleiving in something, when you ask question about it and the only answer is...well, just because.


The Quran says Jesus was special...any comments? And which country do you live in so I can call the muslims to burn it down...just kidding about the burning it down thing. But really this is another example where people who really haven't done their homework are talking regurgutated drivel, no offense but this is typical. If you have questions ask them here. I mean IF I can't get you an answer it won't be for lack of trying. I don't have to "give an answer to every man" but I do need to the pratice of answering the hard questions so fire away. I am in the process of answering the remarks posed by the evilbible site so please be original and don't just cut and paste it. I will do my best to find and answer your questions. If I cannot I will say so and ask my Pastor to help me find it and pray about it. If it don't come and I cannot again, I'll say so. There is no shame in saying you don't know everything about everything. Does a Physics guy know everything about Biology like a specialist does...




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