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Atheism vs. christianty

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posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by daedalas
So, I decided to make a thread purely for the arguement of christianity vs. Atheism. This is what most of the threads are turned into anyway.


I think the focus of thread is to narrow. Personaly I think the concept of god is the biggest con job in the history of humanity. People are either forced or choose to have a belief in the concept of god because it is the easie way out. People tend to lead busy lives which leaves very little time to think about anything that isnt related to the likes of there career.

Just my 10 cents.


[edit on 21-1-2006 by xpert11]




posted on Jan, 21 2006 @ 11:16 PM
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It goes both ways. People of Christian faith believe that there is a god, he is all powerfull and DOES exist, no quetions asked.

Athiests seem to believe that it's unscientific to believe in a higher power, so therefore God does NOT exist, no quetions asked.


Hmm, i don't like the "no questions asked" part of ur statement. I know Christians who think a lot and analyze their faith... ask questions all the time. I'm not so sure about atheists - if u were asking questions all the time, maybe u would be more inclined to be agnostic... but still...

All the same, i've noticed that a lot of the objections ppl have about Christianity are actually based on misconceptions... not all, just a lot. And a lot of christians misunderstand athiests and attack them based false assumptions... hence the... you're wrong
no you're wrong
... you're stupid and ignorant :bash:...



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 01:50 AM
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I ask questions all the time and do my best to keep to an open mind. Having said that I always reach the same conclusion hence Im a athiest.
Cheers Xpert11.



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 04:46 AM
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Yay, somewhere where the non-thiests, and the mono-thiests, can discuss their opinion about who's right..
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 05:00 AM
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xpert11: Perhaps you are not asking the right questions, or perhaps you have come to a conclusion concerning the topic, so you are inclined to reach the same conclusion in a repeated manner.

I personally hold issue with people who seem to know things, whether it's personal "knowedge" or public.



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 07:41 AM
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I personally hold issue with people who seem to know things, whether it's personal "knowedge" or public.

So, why?



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 11:03 AM
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thecrystalsword, your post does not make much sense to me. You dont like people who think? Is thinking anti-christian now?

I suppose it would make sense though, if the church is losing followers because people are thinking now and not just mindlessly and usquestionably worshiping anymore.

I can see it now, the pope declares thinking is devil worship and no more thinking unless you want to burn in hell.



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 02:00 PM
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Even though this goes against all logic of the physical world, if someone believes in a God, it exists for him, regardless. Same is true if you do not. Trying to rationalize things on the basis of the entire scope is impossible because the entire scope is the collective view of everyone, and when that is not homogenous, you have unanswerable questions that people differ on, mostly this one.

I've tried my fair share to get satisfactory answers from people who do believe. I never did, and i simply gave up and accepted that your opinion is totally relative. I dont perfer to think of the world as just my perception, no one does, but nothing else works...



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by spamandham

Atheism does not necessarily imply belief in the nonexistence of gods, it only necessarily implies nonbelief in gods. Before we can discuss the existence of your god, it needs a definition.




The atheist is still placing their faith in not believing in God or that there is not a God to believe in. They have made a choice that they have to live with.



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by daedalas
thecrystalsword, your post does not make much sense to me. You dont like people who think? Is thinking anti-christian now?


No. I hold contention with people who think they KNOW things. I hold contention with people who feel as if they have the answer to ANYTHING, religious or atheist.



I suppose it would make sense though, if the church is losing followers because people are thinking now and not just mindlessly and usquestionably worshiping anymore.


I'd encourage this, as many churches do not encourage questioning their lives, and we can do nought but question. The eternal pursuit for gnosis is the only worthy goal, however hubris gets in the way with almost every human being.



I can see it now, the pope declares thinking is devil worship and no more thinking unless you want to burn in hell.


It's nice that you thought that my contention with people who claim knowledge to be some sort of religious rhetoric, it doesn't at all encourage me to think that people actually read classics such as Plato and Socrates.



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by dbrandt
Part of believing in God is entering another aspect to a person's life, the spiritual part. Some have trouble doing this. If they can't see it then they won't believe it. Right now faith is required to "see" God, but someday we are promised that that faith will be turned to sight(literal).

[edit on 21-1-2006 by dbrandt]


but not all spirituality turns to a belief in god.

i'm quite the spiritual person, being a buddhist and all, so i'm going to be the neutral party here. i turned away from the typical theistic beliefs through my spirituality and moved to a philosophy. i only say i'm a buddhist because it's the easiest way to explain my personal spiritual belief in a philosophy with no specific doctrines or dogmas.

but i think christianity vs atheism comes out in society because of how prevalent christianity is in the world. 2 BILLION people are christian on this planet, so it's the easiest system of beliefs for atheists to go after.


You numbers might be right but are distorted in thinking that just because we are a majority (though not by much) we are an easy target. Why not attack number two. The religion of Islam is even more in your face historically speaking. As soon as they gain the majority (and they will) and get more money and popular support you won't have us Christians to blame for your woes anymore.

Check this:

www.adherents.com...

Atheist are a pretty large group themselves.

This is pretty interesting as a source too:

www.religioustolerance.org...

This is interesting too:

www.omsakthi.org...



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 04:46 PM
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sorry about the avatar changing all the time, just experimenting.



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 05:03 PM
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1gj, in most of the countries people are posting from, christianity has a huge majority.

in the USA there are only about 8 million muslims, and well over 150 mil. christians.

also, islam is still pretty far behind (at around 1.2 bil), and they're not as prevalent in the west.



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 08:31 PM
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www.odci.gov...

Christians 33.03% (of which Roman Catholics 17.33%, Protestants 5.8%, Orthodox 3.42%, Anglicans 1.23%), Muslims 20.12%, Hindus 13.34%, Buddhists 5.89%, Sikhs 0.39%, Jews 0.23%, other religions 12.61%, non-religious 12.03%, atheists 2.36% (2004 est.)



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 09:10 PM
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I don't believe in any god/gods and dont see why I should. Just because others feel the need or have be brought up to believe is neither here nor there. I have found no evidence past or present that implies the existence of deities to be true and also can't think of any reason why these dieties should exist. However, as I am open minded, if any evidence to the contrary emerges then I would believe accordingly. I also believe that there are higher intelligences out there somewhere but would not ascribe them god status but beings with a greater understanding of the way things are than ourselves.



G



posted on Jan, 22 2006 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
xpert11: Perhaps you are not asking the right questions, or perhaps you have come to a conclusion concerning the topic, so you are inclined to reach the same conclusion in a repeated manner.

Do you care to list what you consider the right questions are?
Cheers Xpert11.



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 02:04 AM
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I don't believe in any god/gods and dont see why I should. Just because others feel the need or have be brought up to believe is neither here nor there. I have found no evidence past or present that implies the existence of deities to be true and also can't think of any reason why these dieties should exist. However, as I am open minded, if any evidence to the contrary emerges then I would believe accordingly. I also believe that there are higher intelligences out there somewhere but would not ascribe them god status but beings with a greater understanding of the way things are than ourselves.


So why do Christians believe? I have to admit that i find a life with no God very meaningless in comparison... I was also brought up in a christian household. So i consider myself a bad example in response to what you've said. But look around you: (1) there are intelligent people who believe, who came to believe, after concluding that they evidence points to it being true, and (2) there is more to believing than simply, *wanting* to believe. I know of a person who says he finds what God calls on you to do as a Christian annoying... he doesn't want to believe, but he can't help it - he just does.



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 05:33 AM
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Originally posted by xpert11
Do you care to list what you consider the right questions are?
Cheers Xpert11.


Asking me what the right questions are is like asking the wind why it blows, or the rivers why they flow.

If you seek proof of something which cannot be proven, do not be surprised when you find nothing. Sadly, if one is to prove god, there is a substantive argument that the proposed entity isn't god.

Substantively, if one can reduce a being down to the comprehensive level of humanity, it ceases to be identifiable as any divine being. As such... there is no proof of God, except God itself, which cannot be revealed.

It is the veil you cannot pull back. If you wish to assume there is nothing, by all means do. Statistically, most of the universe should not exist or happen in any fashion. Long odds, as it were.

Long odds are that a car that rolls twice down a hill would severely harm at least one of the three passengers in the car... my family was in such an accident right in front of me, and suffered nothing but cuts and scrapes. They were all buckled in, and my sister was actually sleeping lengthwise in the back seat of a 1990 Astro Van.

Long odds dictate that someone should've at least had some severe lacerations or possibly a broken bone or sprained joint, none of which happened. Scratches from glass and only that. Statistically in the impossible range.

God exists where numbers break down. Otherwise, the universe is vastly silly and nonsensical, not even applying to its own rules of statistics.



posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 08:43 AM
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I have hallucinations that I hope are real.

If not then I am in dire need of help.

'Agape' helped me through everything.

If it was simply Paul's imagination then clearly I can relate to what he's saying better than most people.

If love God with all your heart, body, mind and soul and love your neighbour as you love yourself is what Jesus believed then I find it hard not to relate to that.

I find it equally difficult to pick it out.

But I've seen some things you wouldn't believe and vice-versa.

I call that God. I read about someone that never gave into their versa despite all the public pressure and I strive to be like that, I simply ask the wrong questions sometimes and for that I apologise.

My faith is often tested, but never broken - till I RIP.

I was raised in a scientific family and they have never intentionally tried to steer me wrong, but I consider science to be a relatively reverse human device.

It looks for signs and then it draws a conclusion.

Scientifically I'm depressed, but inside I feel overjoyed.

Noone will ever understand what God means to me and likewise if Einstein started guiding me through his Physics workbook I'd be equally baffled.

Problem is, I believe God came first.




posted on Jan, 23 2006 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
The atheist is still placing their faith in not believing in God or that there is not a God to believe in. They have made a choice that they have to live with.


There is an invisible dragon living in your garage. If you reject this, it's only because you have faith in the nonexistence of invisible dragons. You've made your choice, and now you will have to live with it.

I know this is hard for you to understand, but there are people who find the idea of gods (particularly your god) to be just as rediculous and unfounded as the invisible dragon. The claim is not seriously considered because it's patently absurd. You and I reject the patently absurd on a regular basis, and never consider it an act of faith (because it isn't).

Your desire to show that everyone uses faith, no matter how contrived you have to make it, is quite telling. It reveals that deep down, you know faith is not a valid means of obtaining knowledge, and are attempting to place everyone into the faith camp to relieve yourself of the responsibility of questioning your faith.




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