Good remains triumphant over Evil

I agree. Everyone's perspective is different, thus the same action can be labelled with the entire spectrum from good to evil, depending on the individual. It is when one believes that an action is evil, yet still goes ahead and acts it out that it can truly qualify as an evil act.

The war between good vs evil. What a joke.

What is good? What is evil?

Is it a natural law? Is it a man made definition? Who's to say what I do or what you do is good or evil? What if two people have conflicting views?

There is no war of good vs evil. Get your head's out of the religous gutter.

Isn't this the point that we were alluding to?

It's just a moot point to be arguing about. There's no point in arguing over something that doesn't exist.

True, it may not exist in absolution, but the fact that it is perceived to exist by so many, indicates that it does exist in some way shape or form, in some reality, whether that be physical, spiritual, perceived or imagined.

No, it doesn't prove it exists..

it's stemmed off from the religous belief of good vs evil and the whole armageddon crap. In reality there is no actual good and no actual evil. None. Now just because some religous belief says there is doesn't prove there is. Granted you did say percieved/imagined, that still doesn't pertain to true reality and again you go back to the mootness of the whole argument.

How would you label an action committed by someone, with the knowledge that they themsleves believed had only negative intent behind it, prior to committing it?

Can it be proven that evil does not exist?

Originally posted by mytym
How would you label an action committed by someone, with the knowledge that they themsleves believed had only negative intent behind it, prior to committing it?

A bad choice, or awful act isn't "evil", it's just what it is... a bad choice. Someone who kills someone knowingly isn't i"evil", they just knowingly made a bad desicion. Let's call lion's, tiger's and bears (oh my) evil too if you'd like to use your logic. Let's call all cops who kill another human being evil. Let's call all executioner's evil. Yes, killing *could* be viewed as negative in one respect and as nessecary in another way, that doesn't mean whoever is doing the killing is evil. No matter what way you dice and slice it, killing is killing no matter what the reason.

It's the same way I view cuss words. Why are they so "bad"? Becuase SOCIETY says they are. It's not the words themselve's, it's the people who define those words as bad. Same thing with action's. It's not the action itself, it's the person behind the action and the societies definition of the action.

There is no natural good or evil force. None.

A bad choice, or awful act isn't "evil", it's just what it is... a bad choice. Someone who kills someone knowingly isn't i"evil", they just knowingly made a bad desicion. Let's call lion's, tiger's and bears (oh my) evil too if you'd like to use your logic. Let's call all cops who kill another human being evil. Let's call all executioner's evil. Yes, killing *could* be viewed as negative in one respect and as nessecary in another way, that doesn't mean whoever is doing the killing is evil. No matter what way you dice and slice it, killing is killing no matter what the reason.

It's the same way I view cuss words. Why are they so "bad"? Becuase SOCIETY says they are. It's not the words themselve's, it's the people who define those words as bad. Same thing with action's. It's not the action itself, it's the person behind the action and the societies definition of the action.

There is no natural good or evil force. None.

I don't see the relevance of your point. I never said killing was evil. I never even said people were evil. I was merely stating that some decisions that are made are evil. Lions, Tigers and Bears kill because they need to survive. That's not evil. Cops who kill other human beings need to to protect the innocent (if that is the case). That's not evil. If it's necessary, then there must be something positive driving it in some respect, thus it is not evil. None of your examples address my question.

I was merely stating that some decisions that are made are evil.

By that statement, I did address you in my reply. Someone who decide's to kill with intent, some people will view him as an "evil" person. Whatever the reason may have been. Despite all that, choice's and such, where are you getting evil from? Your belief's. There is no true evil and no true good. What you decide to do doesn't bring about good or evil, it's just cause and effect, BUT what you choose to believe based upon that cause and effect impart's what is viewed as good or evil.

You're still missing the point. Killing with intent has nothing to do with it. Why do you keep going back to killing? It can be any action that the perpertrator commits with the knowledge that they themselves do not believe what they are doing is the right thing to do. It could be drawing with crayons on the wall, or pulling your sister hair, it doesn't matter as long as no GOOD intention exists.

that doesnt change the fact that because you believe its wrong they believe its wrong. they may be totally irrational and crazy and still believe its right. some one could be killed or attacked over greed, theres no good in that reason but they arent evil. they do it for the wrong reasons because they are misguided and blind, not because they are evil. the way your mind works and their mind works are different. some people dont even think about right or wrong or the good or bad intent, just what they need to do to get as rich as possible. to them its not wrong, to you it may be.

I keep using killing as an example becuase it's one that stick's out the most. The end of another's life, intentionally. Alot of people would view that as truly "evil", which is why I used it. Drawing on the walls or pulling your sister's hair... By that definition, we're all "evil".

it doesn't matter as long as no GOOD intention exists.

What you believe is good, another would believe is evil. What you believe is evil another would view it as good. I don't think I'm missing the point at all. The point is, there's no actual good or evil. Cause and effect, that's all it is. What your personal belief's are will decide for you what's good and what's evil. So in reality there is and never has been and never will be a war of good vs evil.

So the title of this topic, "Good remains triumphant over evil" is a false statement. Your belief system of what is good is based upon a cause and effect event. "Goodness" never brought about that cause and effect, it just happened. Your belief's alone determined what that cause and effect meant. Really, you could say, it's all in your head.

hell some believe that its good to kill off all black people. some believe its good to steal for the better of them. some believe its evil to kill in defense. some believe its evil to cause harm to another person for any reason. there good may conflict with yours, doesnt mean either side is right or wrong. its alot like relativity. its only relative from person to person, not set in stone. there is no right or wrong, just a relative right and wrong based on who you ask.

Firstly, how do you know reality isn't all in your head also? Secondly, you ARE missing the point. What someone else believes has no relevance to whether the act is good or evil, it relys solely on what the person committing the act believes, as I have continually reiterated. Granted, the title of this thread may be a little innaccurate in absolution, but the purpose was to demonstrate that the world isn't as bad as many seem to perceive. Thus the fact that good and evil exists in the perceptive reality of many, creates a legitmate basis for this argument.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
hell some believe that its good to kill off all black people. some believe its good to steal for the better of them. some believe its evil to kill in defense. some believe its evil to cause harm to another person for any reason. there good may conflict with yours, doesnt mean either side is right or wrong. its alot like relativity. its only relative from person to person, not set in stone. there is no right or wrong, just a relative right and wrong based on who you ask.

I absolutely agree 100%.

how can good over come evil when both sides believe they are fighting for the good. if a man went around killing hookers believing he is right to rid the world of them and the system said no hes wrong and threw him in jail...which is the good side? he believes hes doing the right thing, as do they. the good choice overcomes the bad one. what he believes is good or evil is irrelevent, its what the outcome is and what the consequences of it are. if he kills some one and a family member of the victim gets pissed and kills him, well as far as im concerned there was no good or evil there, just two bad choices that led to a bloody outcome.

yes reality is in only what it is to the person experiencing it.

no amount of people can judge what act is good or evil because its nothing more then their belief. no majority of people will make it set in stone.



[edit on 6-2-2006 by grimreaper797]

What a person believe's doesn't make it evil or good in actuality. Just because many people believe or percieve a good or evil act, doesn't make the actual act in itself evil or good. You and anyone can believe in whatever you want. Cause and effect will forever remain cause and effect. Just because the person knowingly kills another thinking it's an "evil" act doesn't actually make the act itself evil. the person (cause) kills someone (effect), there's nothing truely evil about the actual cause and effect.

Let's look at the animal kingdom, which even man is still a part of! A predator will kill knowingly and intently for whatever reason. Food. Territory. Aggression. Pecking order. Etc. We're still bound by those same basic animal instinct's. There's nothing special about mankind that make's him rise above the rest of our planet's species. We're still animal's. We're still bound by instinct's.

It's because of our culture, our belief's, this is where your getting the idea's of a good vs evil. You can keep on with the reiteration's if you'd like. No amount of it will change the natural order of cause and effect. Whatever your belief's are are tied to what you think based upon what you observe of a cause and effect event. A person knowingly killing another person thinking he's being diabolicly evil or commiting an act of evil doesn't make the cause and effect itself evil. Really, it is just all in your head.

the good choice overcomes the bad one. what he believes is good or evil is irrelevent, its what the outcome is and what the sonsequences of it are.

Then there should be no crime's within the human species. The outcome of an event doesn't determine anything about the event itself. The event is just the event. The consequence's towards the person commiting the event are based upon how society view's the event that the person caused. Be it good or evil. Point is, no matter what the event, nothing of the event itself caused it to be good or bad.